summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/2008
diff options
context:
space:
mode:
Diffstat (limited to '2008')
-rw-r--r--2008/031608.txt499
-rw-r--r--2008/03xx08.txt202
-rw-r--r--2008/042008.txt785
-rw-r--r--2008/051108.txt474
-rw-r--r--2008/051808.txt724
-rw-r--r--2008/august2008.txt429
-rw-r--r--2008/december2008.txt448
-rw-r--r--2008/july08.txt757
-rw-r--r--2008/june08.txt388
-rw-r--r--2008/november08.txt317
-rw-r--r--2008/october08.txt455
-rw-r--r--2008/september08.txt614
12 files changed, 6092 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/2008/031608.txt b/2008/031608.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..be918ab
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/031608.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,499 @@
+[14:00] <NeddySeagoon> lets start
+[14:00] <NeddySeagoon> Roll Call ...
+[14:00] <Dr_Who> groovy
+[14:00] <Dr_Who> tgall here
+[14:00] <fmccor> Here
+[14:00] * wltjr is present
+[14:00] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ...
+[14:01] <wltjr> it's noon out west, so either asleep or at the weekly bay area crew's BBQ if they are still having those :)
+[14:01] <NeddySeagoon> We'll continue anyway ... the agenda is at http://xrl.us/bg25p
+[14:01] <Dr_Who> yup .. least we have quorum
+[14:01] <Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, do you want a motion ?
+[14:02] * vln (n=v1n@unaffiliated/vln) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:02] * omsai is here
+[14:02] <NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, I was just going to run through the agenda ... its been posted 2 weeks and no emails.
+[14:02] <NeddySeagoon> 1. Introductions
+[14:03] * fmccor looks for tsunam's contact info
+[14:04] <NeddySeagoon> You can read about me http://dev.gentoo.org/~neddyseagoon/docs/manifesto.xml thats my election manifesto
+[14:05] <NeddySeagoon> I'm not going to paste to the channel unless there is some demand for it
+[14:05] <Dr_Who> have to find the link with my intro / anifesto
+[14:05] * wltjr points to his http://dev.gentoo.org/~wltjr/manifestos/2008_gentoo_board_of_trustees.xml (out of laziness)
+[14:05] <Dr_Who> it's on the election page if anyone is curious
+[14:06] * shpaq (i=shpaq@gentoo/user/shpaq) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:06] * fmccor points to his note accepting nomination
+[14:07] <NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, thats http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/elections/foundation-200802.xml
+[14:07] <fmccor> Also linked from elections page.
+[14:08] <NeddySeagoon> I can't find anything for tsunam
+[14:08] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, did you contact tsunam ?
+[14:08] <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I can't find a contact for him.
+[14:08] <Dr_Who> thought he had sent that via email
+[14:08] * wltjr calls Josh
+[14:08] <fmccor> So did I, but I don't see it.
+[14:08] <NeddySeagoon> thanks ...
+[14:09] <wltjr> fmccor: Subject: Records, etc.
+[14:09] <wltjr> voicemail
+[14:09] <NeddySeagoon> ok .. we tried
+[14:10] <NeddySeagoon> Any more Introductions ?
+[14:10] <wltjr> left a vm, he is mia, I think bailed to Mexico via Gentoo funds :)
+[14:10] * Ken69267 (n=Ken69267@gentoo/developer/ken69267) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:10] <NeddySeagoon> Item 2 Vote of Thanks to Outgoing Trustees
+[14:10] <Dr_Who> well lets hope not
+[14:11] * welp (n=welp@gentoo/developer/colchester-lug.welp) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:11] * simple (n=simple@d226-31-5.home.cgocable.net) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:11] * DrEeevil (i=dreeevil@gentoo/user/bonsaikitten) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:11] <welp> DrEeevil: u2slow
+[14:11] <NeddySeagoon> I would like to propose a vote of thanks to the outgoing trustees and everyone who has helped to get the Gentoo Foundation off the ground.
+[14:11] <DrEeevil> I r
+[14:12] <Dr_Who> motion to acknowledge and deeply thank past trustees, and especially call out g2boojum for his help as we ste into our new roles
+[14:12] * simple has quit (Client Quit)
+[14:12] <fmccor> Second
+[14:12] * Tatsh (n=Tatsh_zz@c-76-19-124-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:12] <Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, least i presume we're using parliamentary procedure...
+[14:13] <fmccor> And I vote for it.
+[14:13] * wltjr votes Yeah
+[14:13] <Dr_Who> i vote : yea
+[14:13] <NeddySeagoon> Carried
+[14:13] <tsunam> ^^^ for some reason thought it was 20:00 not 19:00
+[14:13] <tsunam> for the meeting
+[14:13] <welp> tsunam: you fail.
+[14:13] * welp hides
+[14:13] <tsunam> welp: meh probably
+[14:13] <Dr_Who> hey tsunam
+[14:13] * fragalot beams at welp and tells him to behave.
+[14:14] <welp> tsunam: probably due to the council meetings being at 20:00
+[14:14] <wltjr> tsunam: time wasn't mentioned in email, I think just on agenda page
+[14:14] <welp> fragalot: ;)
+[14:14] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, we have done item 1 and 2 ... would you like to say a few words of introduction
+[14:14] <fmccor> It was in the email as a proposal.
+[14:14] <welp> Ken69267: you suck
+[14:14] <welp> ok, /me stfu
+[14:14] * omsai shusses audience
+[14:14] <Tatsh> so
+[14:15] <Tatsh> what is going to be spoken of?
+[14:15] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: nothing really...most people are aware of me, if they are not. I've been around the foundation/trustee's for quite a while and poked at them for long enough to try and get things accomplished so
+[14:15] * Dr_Who points at topic for agenda
+[14:15] <welp> Tatsh: http://xrl.us/bg25p
+[14:15] <wltjr> fmccor: this is what I was referring to http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-nfp/msg_aa974a35dbb46f4b2d49f8ad1466eb31.xml
+[14:15] <NeddySeagoon> Tatsh, The agenda in in /topic
+[14:15] * vladms (n=vladms@200-112-dyn.ipact.nl) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:15] <wltjr> fmccor: I think the other with time might have been internal amongst us
+[14:16] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, thats very true - thanks
+[14:16] <Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, item 3?
+[14:16] <NeddySeagoon> Item 3 Announcement of Office Holders
+[14:16] <Tatsh> well brb
+[14:16] <wltjr> tsunam: you just didn't write a manifesto ;) we all diverted to that for our intros
+[14:16] <NeddySeagoon> We decided the following :-
+[14:16] <NeddySeagoon> Roy Bamford (NeddySeagoon) President
+[14:16] <NeddySeagoon> Ferris McCormick (fmccor) - Vice President
+[14:16] <NeddySeagoon> Joshua Jackson (tsunam) - Treasurer
+[14:16] <NeddySeagoon> Tom Gall (tgall) - Secretary
+[14:16] <NeddySeagoon> William L. Thomson Jr. (wltjr) - Director
+[14:17] <Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, i believe since ths is our first forma meeting, we do need motion and vote to approve that
+[14:17] * Tatsh has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+[14:17] <Dr_Who> which I so move :-)
+[14:17] <fmccor> So moved.
+[14:17] <welp> wait, who's Dr_Who and why does he have ops?
+[14:17] <NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, It can't be a formal meeting - its open to members of the public ... but I don't mind a vote
+[14:17] welp wltjr
+[14:17] <Dr_Who> welp, Im tgall
+[14:17] <wltjr> welp: tgall
+[14:17] <fmccor> welp, tgall
+[14:17] <Dr_Who> I'm on my lappy ...
+[14:17] <welp> oh, ok, that clears that up
+[14:18] <NeddySeagoon> We agreed to be as transparent as possible ..
+[14:18] <Dr_Who> indeed
+[14:18] <wltjr> Dr_Who: and playing pappy :)
+[14:18] <tsunam> it would be a vote by the foundation...not an open vote however...
+[14:19] <Dr_Who> it's a great slate of folks and i think we all look forward to performing our respective roles
+[14:19] <wltjr> tsunam: yeah we did a mini one before you showed up for a vote of thanks to past trustees
+[14:19] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Even that is not needed for officers ... just the 5 of us
+[14:19] <Dr_Who> tsunam, correct
+[14:19] <Dr_Who> tsunam, which is what i meant ... and by formal meeting I mean a meeting of the 5 of us
+[14:19] <tsunam> k
+[14:19] <NeddySeagoon> Now we get to the interesting bits ..
+[14:20] <Dr_Who> point of order .. we have a motion on the floor
+[14:20] * wltjr seconds the motion
+[14:20] * NeddySeagoon is in favour
+[14:20] <tsunam> no need to second a point of order *laughs*
+[14:20] * wltjr votes Yeah
+[14:20] * fmccor votes yes
+[14:20] * Dr_Who votes yea
+[14:21] * tsunam checks yes
+[14:21] <NeddySeagoon> Unanimous
+[14:21] <NeddySeagoon> Item 4 Plan For the Future (With Approx Timescales)
+[14:21] * arachnist (i=arachnis@paludis/monkey/arachnist) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:21] * omsai leans forward in his seat
+[14:21] * fmccor notes that4 includes 5 & 6, really.
+[14:21] <welp> omsai: stop blocking my view!
+[14:22] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, true
+[14:22] <tsunam> Well I can start with financial related materials if we'd like first
+[14:22] * omsai points at the overhead chat tv-screen
+[14:22] <wltjr> update bylaws, compliance with state, fed, establish bank account, other business, ~2 months time frame for all
+[14:22] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, yes please ... I've lost moy notes
+[14:22] <tsunam> heh
+[14:22] <wltjr> locate and retain accountaint/registered agent, seek legal council on current legal/filing situation
+[14:23] <Dr_Who> sounds good tsunam
+[14:23] <tsunam> I put out some calls to various banks of friday
+[14:23] <tsunam> So far I've contacted bankofamerica, washington mutual, wells fargo, comerica, citibank
+[14:23] <wltjr> tsunam: any chances of establishing before correcting legal or is that a blocker?
+[14:23] <tsunam> of those, washington mutual does not deal with international at all so its eliminated
+[14:23] <tsunam> its a legal blocker
+[14:24] <tsunam> as its not a personal account...
+[14:24] <wltjr> tsunam: do we need to be concerned with international atm? couldn't that flow through PayPal?
+[14:24] <tsunam> As well for a business, there is background related materials for the group, and the person who is the treasurer as well.
+[14:24] <wltjr> tsunam: sure, just wasn't sure if you have made it to the requirements point with any
+[14:24] <Dr_Who> it would seem we have to face international at some point .. might as well do it from the start
+[14:24] <tsunam> wltjr: currently yes, however not everyone likes paypal, and being able to have people do wire transfers might be beneficial
+[14:25] <Dr_Who> tsunam, any outlook on costs vs service from what you saw ?
+[14:25] <tsunam> wltjr: as well...it would allow us to do wire transfers from our bank to other members who've spent money on behalf of the foundation
+[14:25] <wltjr> international will be like Citi, Chase, HSBC, etc
+[14:25] <tsunam> Dr_Who: citibank was the most knowledgeable
+[14:25] <wltjr> tsunam: we should be able to do wire transfers via western union worse case
+[14:25] <Dr_Who> tsunam, how about from a cost perspective ?
+[14:26] <tsunam> they have a service for sending money in euro's for example
+[14:26] <wltjr> but I don't believe western union offers any banking solutions
+[14:26] <tsunam> Dr_Who: unfortunately I was not able to get a true cost perspective due to the fact that I did not have all information available as well
+[14:26] <wltjr> tsunam: Citi is internationally owned, Kindom Holding Group, Saudi's, so likely best international support
+[14:26] <wltjr> tsunam: short of like Chase, now owned by J.P. Morgan
+[14:27] <Dr_Who> sounds like a good prospect !
+[14:27] <tsunam> citibank as well...depending on what kind of organization we incorporate as (llc etc..)
+[14:27] <tsunam> has different accounts that are beneficial to us
+[14:27] <Dr_Who> sounds good
+[14:27] <tsunam> including interest based checking accounts potentially
+[14:27] <wltjr> tsunam: I think wrt to sending money internationally we can get by with PayPal and Western Union, not sure we need that to be part of actual banking solution
+[14:28] <tsunam> I will contact chase and hsbc next week
+[14:28] <wltjr> tsunam: now that would be ideal, as we should keep a min balance to satisfy the min requirements
+[14:28] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Right now we don't have a bank ... whats stopping us getting one and how/when can it be fixed ?
+[14:28] <wltjr> tsunam: interest barring for sure IMHO
+[14:28] <tsunam> I would prefer to keep a minimum ammount in the paypal account
+[14:45] * Tatsh (n=Tatsh_zz@c-76-19-124-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:45] <tsunam> Dr_Who: not as far as I'm aware
+[14:45] <fmccor> Dr_Who, We have Articles of Incorporation and a Certificate of Incorporation Number.
+[14:46] <wltjr> Dr_Who: till 08, 990 wasn't required unless you had a certain amount of anual revenue
+[14:46] <Dr_Who> fmccor: yes I know ...
+[14:46] <Dr_Who> wltjr, that's not my understanding .. but for this conversation ... not important'
+[14:46] <wltjr> registered agents in NM seem cheap and readily available
+[14:46] <tsunam> wltjr: ~100 bucks
+[14:46] <tsunam> for the year
+[14:46] <wltjr> Dr_Who: it was in one of the documents I provided from IRS, i was reading it
+[14:47] <Dr_Who> wltjr, so for next meeting on the registration agent will you come back with a specific proposal then ?
+[14:47] <wltjr> tsunam: yep, not sure what other services they provide, some also provide filing services
+[14:47] <wltjr> seems like we should find an agent that can deal with the filings as well :) then we just modify bylaws, provide, they review, submit, etc, we pay
+[14:47] <tsunam> wltjr: they act as the business location for the organization. Take messages from the state...pass them to us. If someone was to call and ask for a listing of members they'd give them
+[14:47] <fmccor> wltjr, I'd suggest not waiting a month for this.
+[14:48] <tsunam> wltjr: there's not a whole lot fo them to do quite honestly
+[14:48] <Dr_Who> fmccor: it's an expenditure of money ... it needs approval
+[14:48] <fmccor> We can do that any time.
+[14:48] <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, they paying could be delayed if all our funds are in a cheque and we don't have a bank account ... its a little circular
+[14:48] <Dr_Who> yes... nothing saying we can't get together in 2 weeks or when wltjr has someting for us to act on
+[14:48] <wltjr> fmccor: I agree, and seeing how NeddySeagoon is out of US, feel like shopping around for a registered agent in NM? being our VP ? :)
+[14:48] * tsunam is looking over form 990
+[14:49] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no, we can do out of pocket, or use PayPal checks :)
+[14:49] <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ok.
+[14:49] <tsunam> wltjr: you rely far too heavily on paypal for my likes
+[14:49] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: tsunam has access to our PayPal account, and it likely has enough funds to cover our restablishement
+[14:49] <tsunam> It does
+[14:49] <wltjr> tsunam: it's a crutch for now, but it's a really good way to send $ for an organization like ours
+[14:50] <Dr_Who> right ... but let's have a specific proposal from wltjr with an agent...
+[14:50] <tsunam> there are fee's associated with sending checks via it, so I'd rather pay out of my pocket and request being reimburst
+[14:50] <Dr_Who> we can worry about how to pay for it once we have that to act on
+[14:50] <wltjr> tsunam: I agree we should have a bank account, and not normally a fan of PayPal, but it's pretty ideal here, short of like Western Union or etc, which offers similar services
+[14:50] <NeddySeagoon> and costs ... so we can approve the expendature or not
+[14:50] <fmccor> This goes in steps. Right now, our agent is drobbins, and that stays until we are reestablished. Then we can change agents easily.
+[14:50] <wltjr> tsunam: sure, that's entirely up to you :)
+[14:50] <tsunam> wltjr: that is true but the kind of money we have in it...bothers me
+[14:50] <Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, exactly
+[14:51] <wltjr> tsunam: agreed, and only benefitting them for the most part
+[14:51] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, too much or too little ?
+[14:51] <wltjr> tsunam: I am not saying we should keep a balance there, just use it when needed :)
+[14:51] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: too much
+[14:51] <wltjr> tsunam: they might offer some banking/interest solutions options, might want to give them a call as well
+[14:51] <tsunam> wltjr: I have no problem keeping a balance there, but it will take quite a while to draw funds from it to our bank account when it goes there. I'll bring that up after the bank account is established
+[14:51] <wltjr> fmccor: so feel like shopping around for a registered agent?
+[14:52] <wltjr> fmccor: they might refer us to an accountant, or offer those services as well, and that would be ideal
+[14:52] <wltjr> seems allot of registered agents deal with the filings, which would help us get things strait sooner rather than later
+[14:52] <Dr_Who> tsunam, yes nce we have the new account, we basically should just use paypal as a small slush fund with a goal to keep it at a certain balance ... like say $500
+[14:53] <tsunam> Dr_Who: correct
+[14:53] <tsunam> I will be working on our back quarterly reports as well...
+[14:53] <tsunam> as I can do that at least from the paypal history
+[14:53] <fmccor> wltjr, It'd take me some time, because I have 0 contacts in NM.
+[14:54] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, I was going to ask about that ... what shape are the financial records in that you inherited
+[14:54] <tsunam> fmccor: might be worthwhile to talk to Daniel Robbins and see about some of his contacts there
+[14:54] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: 2 years overdue =)
+[14:54] <wltjr> fmccor: I am just googling, but seems like there is lots of potential
+[14:54] <wltjr> fmccor: it's a randmon let your fingers do the walking kind of thing
+[14:54] <Dr_Who> wltjr, fmccor: how about you two take that off line ?
+[14:54] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, drobbins has a vested interest in helping get his name off the paperwork.
+[14:55] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I'm sure there will be things missed/unaccounted for. However I will try and match the balances as closely as possible and see if I can find where any missing money might of gone to.
+[14:55] <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, unless he wants to keep it on.
+[14:55] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, or come from :)
+[14:55] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: correct
+[14:55] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thats not a problem either ...
+[14:55] <fmccor> Right.
+[14:55] * vladms has quit ("Leaving")
+[14:56] <fmccor> Because right now he is our agent.
+[14:56] <wltjr> Dr_Who: we can, but best to be as transparent as possible
+[14:56] <Dr_Who> yes ... you two have to come back with a proposal anyway ....
+[14:56] <wltjr> FYI, it seems allot of the registered agent companies also provide other servies, like counseling :)
+[14:57] <tsunam> I would suggest contacting a few about probono for the "other" services
+[14:57] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, you are going to call drobbins then ? He may know why we chose the 501 ... we did too
+[14:57] <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, He's usually on IRC in #gentoo-dev or can be reached by email. If I have to call him, I'll have to chase down a contact.
+[14:58] <wltjr> these guys look promising http://www.bizfilings.com/
+[14:58] <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, One way or the other, I'll speak with him.
+[14:58] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: it looks like many registered agents could help with providing info on 501c stuff
+[14:58] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Sorry - contact, in any way you like
+[14:58] <wltjr> because these companies are just registered agents :)
+[14:59] <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, fine ... audition a few
+[14:59] <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, And since drobbins is our agent at the moment, as a courtesy we need to speak with him before changing anyway.
+[14:59] <Dr_Who> I'm sure most of them don't work iwth non profit community driven linux distros ;-)
+[14:59] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I can, but really these are core tasks, best to be done by those with a ranking position
+[14:59] <wltjr> Dr_Who: I am not sure those details really matter
+[15:00] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yes thats for sure. We do not want to reincorporate with his name on the paperwork without his agreement
+[15:00] <Dr_Who> they do ... or you'll end up doing alot of explaining potentially
+[15:00] <wltjr> when we re-file, we need to see about getting our names on file
+[15:00] <wltjr> then it should just be a matter of changing the filing each year as part of anual report
+[15:00] <fmccor> We have to. We are reinstating, and our Articles are on file and the name him
+[15:01] <fmccor> I think we have to be active before changing agents.
+[15:01] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thats something to clarifiy
+[15:01] <wltjr> Dr_Who: they will care up to the point of being able to classify the entity, once they can classify us, they treat us like any other business with that classification
+[15:01] <fmccor> The paperwork Grant sent in last July names him as our agent.
+[15:01] <tsunam> basically after we're back good
+[15:02] <wltjr> fmccor: pretty sure not, I believe we can update the info as we reinstate
+[15:02] <tsunam> we can change and remove daniel from the president role etc...its filing some paperwork
+[15:02] <wltjr> tsunam: yes part of anual filing, but when we reinstate, we will be basically doing that
+[15:02] <Dr_Who> we winding down on that one then?
+[15:02] <fmccor> First priority is to get reinstated.
+[15:02] <NeddySeagoon> Looks like it ...
+[15:02] <Dr_Who> exactly
+[15:03] <fmccor> Then we can act as required.
+[15:03] <NeddySeagoon> Thats covered Items 5 and 6 in there too
+[15:03] <fmccor> In parallel we can work bylaws, and I have a couple clarifications on that.
+[15:03] <wltjr> yes but properly, and if we go reinstating an entity with like say g2boojum still being on file, we might need his signature to remove or something
+[15:03] <fmccor> wltjr, No.
+[15:04] <fmccor> Then the bylaws and statutes kick in.
+[15:04] <tsunam> which need to be approved
+[15:04] <fmccor> Everything we do depends on the bylaws, so long as they are consistent with the statutes.
+[15:04] <wltjr> we really need to get in touch with people that do this day in and day out
+[15:04] <fmccor> They are approved by us.
+[15:04] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, before we send the paperwork in
+[15:05] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: they've been in "waiting state" for 4 years :-P
+[15:05] <Dr_Who> ok .. so one homework item I think we have is to examine, propose (what if any) changes and then vote on the bylaws .. which I would suggest would be an item for the next meeting
+[15:05] <fmccor> Because they spell out membership requirements, and so on.
+[15:05] <Dr_Who> which again I'd like in 2 weeks
+[15:05] <tsunam> I'd say for now 2 weeks would be a good time period to keep stuff moving forward
+[15:05] <tsunam> as there's quite a bit to do right now
+[15:06] <Dr_Who> yup
+[15:06] <Dr_Who> we won't get it all done by the universal two week constant .. but we should see progress!
+[15:06] <NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, we need to ensure the bylaws support the statuats, not contradict them - can we do that without legal help ?
+[15:06] <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Yes.
+[15:07] <Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, one characteristic we will want I'm sure is a reasonable process for modification of the bylaws
+[15:07] <Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, but yes I agree that having a legal read as we modify / file will be necesary
+[15:08] <NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, yep. There are a few oddities in there just now - but its not for this meeting
+[15:08] <fmccor> Mostly the statutes defer to the bylaws, and the bylaws call out such things as (1) who are the members of the Foundation; (2) what officers does the Foundation have; (3) Qualifications to serve as a Trustee, ...
+[15:08] * emery (n=emery@12-214-38-160.client.mchsi.com) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[15:08] <tsunam> guidelines for how the foundaition is run...
+[15:08] <fmccor> Yes.
+[15:08] <Dr_Who> yeah .. and I don't think we're going for 100 pages of bylaws
+[15:08] <NeddySeagoon> Any more on the bylaws ... ?
+[15:08] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, I understand
+[15:08] <tsunam> lol
+[15:08] <tsunam> Dr_Who: I hope not
+[15:09] <Dr_Who> gentoo documentation .. yes ... bylaws no :-)
+[15:09] <fmccor> To quote NM statutes: The bylaws may contain any provisions for the regulation and management
+[15:09] <fmccor> of the affairs of a corporation not inconsistent with law or the
+[15:09] <fmccor> articles of incorporation.
+[15:09] <Dr_Who> good quote!
+[15:09] <Dr_Who> next item then?
+[15:09] <NeddySeagoon> Agenda Item 7 Any Other Business ..
+[15:09] <fmccor> Bylaws should be 2 or 3 pages at most.
+[15:10] * Dr_Who doesn't have other business
+[15:10] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, ?
+[15:10] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, AOB ?
+[15:10] <tsunam> AOB?
+[15:10] <fmccor> Just one further comment on bylaws
+[15:10] <tsunam> oh
+[15:10] <tsunam> any other business..
+[15:11] <tsunam> nope not from me
+[15:11] <NeddySeagoon> Any Other Business
+[15:11] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, On you go
+[15:12] <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, AOB ?
+[15:12] <fmccor> The proposal on the foundations page mostly needs the Members section (IV) rewritten, because it bears no resemblence to what we do.
+[15:12] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: not beyond more on the above ;)
+[15:12] * wltjr thinks we should tap the community wrt to registered agent/accountant
+[15:12] <fmccor> Otherwise, it's pretty much boilerplate, and can be made to fit our specifics.
+[15:13] <NeddySeagoon> fmccor, does it contracdit what we do ?
+[15:13] <fmccor> wltjr, Now, that is a good idea.
+[15:13] <wltjr> if we don't have any referrals, maybe someone in our community does, not sure if we should do a PR piece or GMN item
+[15:13] <NeddySeagoon> I have one item ... how can we get more help ?
+[15:13] <NeddySeagoon> There is a lot to do and just the 5 of us ...
+[15:14] <wltjr> but basically a call for help/referrals, on accountant/agent, and seems like any agent, can provide filing services, so we dial in bylaws, find an agent, and can pay them for the filing
+[15:14] <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Membership? Yes. We don't admit members by application. Our members are certain developers or people who have voted for trustee in the past.
+[15:14] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: it seems like a lot...but really isn't
+[15:14] * jokey (n=jokey@gentoo/developer/jokey) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[15:14] <tsunam> currently memebers are:
+[15:14] <tsunam> Developers who've been developers over a year
+[15:14] <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Bylaws will spell out how many trustees there are.
+[15:14] <tsunam> they automatically get put in...
+[15:15] <tsunam> and former developers
+[15:15] <tsunam> I believe up to a year afterwords
+[15:15] <tsunam> I'd have to review that part again
+[15:15] <tsunam> been a while since I last read them
+[15:15] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, We are discovering what it is we don't know, thats good but I have a feeling that are a lot of unknows we don't even realise ... like an iceberg
+[15:15] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes, that's why we need to retain those that do know ASAP
+[15:15] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: technically we're supossed to have a lot of infomation about our members
+[15:16] <wltjr> the only thing we would need a lawyer for would be to review our articles IMHO
+[15:16] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, I know, but we dont.
+[15:16] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: yes I know
+[15:16] <wltjr> beyond that the rest can be done by an accountant and/or registered agent, wrt to NM and Fed filings
+[15:16] <fmccor> wltjr, That happened when they were put together --- drobbons's lawyer helped, I believe.
+[15:16] <Dr_Who> yeah that's one thing where traditional corp be it stock holders investors or whatever are typcailly more than an irc nick
+[15:17] <fmccor> tsunam, All we need is a name and a way to contact them, I think.
+[15:17] <tsunam> fmccor: correct
+[15:17] <NeddySeagoon> The NM statuats don't like virtual corporations
+[15:17] <wltjr> fmccor: yeah, and I think we would only need them if at all for a review, not really beyond that, unless we want ot pay someone to write our bylaws, etc :)
+[15:17] <Dr_Who> byt we do have the copyright assignment document ... so we do have something instrument wise there
+[15:17] <tsunam> that's the base requirements I believe
+[15:17] <fmccor> As long as they are on file with the agent and we can contact them when we need to, that should be enough.
+[15:18] <tsunam> I'll reread that section of the bylaws
+[15:18] <NeddySeagoon> Hmm ... that doesn't seem so bad ... if thats all we need to get us back on the rails
+[15:18] <Dr_Who> yup .. .good things for deeper discussion on a different day
+[15:18] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: exactly
+[15:19] <NeddySeagoon> Any more AoB ?
+[15:19] <NeddySeagoon> Agenda Item 8 Open Floor
+[15:20] * crimethinker watches everyone fall through the open floor
+[15:20] * NeddySeagoon notes that there are 40 nicks
+[15:20] <omsai> trustees: I'm interested in contributing to the financial health of Gentoo, but there's no breakdown of where the money goes...
+[15:20] <omsai> there's just a paypal link
+[15:20] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, one for you ..
+[15:20] <wltjr> omsai: hang tight, we have more $ than we need atm
+[15:20] <Dr_Who> omsai, as well start to establish reporting ... you'll see progress
+[15:21] <tsunam> omsai: correct, we have no budget nor have ever had one. Currently the money isn't being used to its full effective use
+[15:21] * Tatsh has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+[15:21] <wltjr> omsai: we will be forming a budget, and getting our act there at some point
+[15:21] <omsai> could the budget be posted publically? It would reassure the rest of us after the February "Crisis"
+[15:21] <wltjr> I need to get out that questionaire/survey for existing sponsors contributors, i will draft up a txt file and either upload it some where, or attach when I sent out the emails
+[15:22] <tsunam> omsai: absolutely, there is no reason it should not be public
+[15:22] <crimethinker> emerge gentoo-budget
+[15:22] <wltjr> omsai: everything we do will be publically available
+[15:22] <fmccor> omsai, Such documents must be publically available (by law if for no other reason).
+[15:22] <wltjr> omsai: their never was a crisis, things were blown out of proportion by certain parties :)
+[15:22] <omsai> wltjr: fmccor glad to hear it
+[15:22] <NeddySeagoon> omsai, we are required to file returns, which will be publicly available, so should the budget be
+[15:23] <omsai> wltjr: I know, I know... it was a publicity stunt by someone ;)
+[15:23] <fmccor> omsai, Everything like that must be on file with our agent if nothing else.
+[15:23] <tsunam> omsai: want to thank you for the concern though, as you can see we're trying to get onto a good straight track with this group of trustee's. Hopefully it will happen within the next 2 months that we're ack in good legal standing and can move forward with the true goals of the foundation
+[15:23] <wltjr> omsai: FYI I brought the issues up early in January internally, because I knew they would be misperceived by others, which is exactly what happened when info accidentally leaked
+[15:23] <moozphat> lol, emerge --unmerge crisis
+[15:24] <DrEeevil> moozphat: you shouldn't install games ;)
+[15:24] <shpaq> trusstes: i was wondering if there's any chance to become a foundation member without being a developer
+[15:24] <wltjr> omsai: out of curiousity, what type of a donation are you thinking of? not in details but in concept, do you consider it a contribution or investment?
+[15:24] <tsunam> shpaq: currently at this time no, the bylaws do not allow that
+[15:24] <omsai> trustees: thank you, that addresses my concern
+[15:24] <NeddySeagoon> shpaq, Not at the moment - we would need to chaneg the bylaws for that
+[15:24] <omsai> wltjr: well it's on 2 levels
+[15:24] <wltjr> omsai: we have been discussing a bit to go 501c3 vs 501c6, to allow donations to be written off as charitable contributions
+[15:25] <fmccor> shpaq, Not at the moment, but if you have a proposal we can address it. One part of the "crisis" is that we don't have official bylaws.
+[15:25] <omsai> wltjr: ordinarily it would the same amount as I would pay or a competing OS - $130
+[15:25] <crimethinker> Don't forget to donate to the FSF, too.
+[15:25] <omsai> wltjr: ...at the moment I don't have any business interest, just desktop use
+[15:25] * Tatsh (n=Tatsh_zz@c-76-19-124-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[15:25] <wltjr> omsai: would you be doing that so you could get a write off? or just to help gentoo as a way of giving back
+[15:26] <NeddySeagoon> shpaq, Its something that I want the trustees to discuss but I cannot anticipate the outcome
+[15:26] <omsai> wltjr: to help Gentoo. $130 won't be much of a write off
+[15:26] <Dr_Who> yes .. we have a few questions yet and want to make sure that we follow the tax laws
+[15:26] <wltjr> omsai: basically trying to determine how many of our contributors are doing so for write off purposes, as a 501c3 would benefit them there, and possible encourage that
+[15:26] <Dr_Who> omsai, it adds up tho
+[15:26] <tsunam> wltjr: I'll have numbers for you by next meeting
+[15:27] <tsunam> wltjr: as to our number of contributors who are private citizens
+[15:27] <wltjr> tsunam: wrt? I still need to get you info :)
+[15:27] <shpaq> it would be nice to discuss it and allow non-developers to become a foundation's members
+[15:27] <tsunam> I can't tell you us/international though
+[15:27] <wltjr> tsunam: ah ok, I won't be going there, I will only be hitting up businesses I suspect
+[15:27] <omsai> Dr_Who: but only in the US if I'm not mistaken
+[15:27] <tsunam> wltjr: I have 2 years of donations to paypal to account for
+[15:27] <wltjr> tsunam: wrt to our existing sponsors, like GNi, etc
+[15:27] <shpaq> i understand it needs some bylaws changes?
+[15:27] <wltjr> tsunam: and none of them can write that off
+[15:27] <NeddySeagoon> shpaq, Agreed but its for after the foundation is back in good standing in New Mexico and with the IRS
+[15:28] <fmccor> shpaq, We don't have official bylaws.
+[15:28] <tsunam> that's one of the problems
+[15:28] <fmccor> That's one of out problems.
+[15:28] <wltjr> I am not sure if this round of bylaws changes we will be looking to do any major changes like opening up membership
+[15:28] <fmccor> No.
+[15:29] <wltjr> that would be ideal, but not sure we want stuff like that, holding back other legal things that need to be taken care of
+[15:29] <tsunam> definitely not
+[15:29] <fmccor> I think we'll make them conform to what we do now, then step back and amend them as makes sense.
+[15:29] <wltjr> that's more for later one, once we have our house in order, and have recovered from that :)
+[15:29] <Dr_Who> but for certain ... I think we all feel the pressure to get bylaws in place soon
+[15:29] <Dr_Who> but tempered with legal realities that need to be reflect in those bylaws
+[15:30] <fmccor> Yes, because we can't act without them much.
+[15:30] <crimethinker> Forgive me for not reading all the scroll, but doesn't it mean someone simply needs to write the bylaws and propose them to the group?
+[15:30] <Dr_Who> IE we ain't going to wait forever .. but we ain't going to pass something that's not right
+[15:30] <wltjr> yeah, and we seem to all be in concensus for the most part, which is good
+[15:30] cram_leak crimethinker
+[15:30] <wltjr> thus I think ~2 months is realistic to clean up or legal house for the most part
+[15:30] <fmccor> crimethinker, The "group" initially is the trustees, because the Foundation membership is part of the bylaws themselves.
+[15:30] <tsunam> crimethinker: it requires a substancial rewrite to be honest
+[15:31] <tsunam> crimethinker: good portions of things need to be redefined
+[15:31] <rane> and you have no draft yet?
+[15:31] <tsunam> we do
+[15:31] <tsunam> http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/bylaws.xml
+[15:31] <Dr_Who> we do .. we're not starting over from scratch
+[15:32] <fmccor> crimethinker, What this means is that we will propose them and pass them through the group (gentoo-nfp@?), but the approval is left to the trustees.
+[15:32] <wltjr> any rewording of our bylaws now would mostly be to change from 501c3 to 501c6, and/or any other immediate needs, leaving out most ideal things to be discussed and done at a later date
+[15:32] <wltjr> er, 501c6 to 501c3
+[15:32] <tsunam> okie guys..I need to get going
+[15:32] <Dr_Who> have a good one tsunam
+[15:32] <wltjr> same here, need to go check out dryers :(
+[15:33] <Dr_Who> so 2 weeks from today? next meeting ?
+[15:33] <tsunam> wltjr: lol
+[15:33] welp wltjr
+[15:33] <wltjr> they all have the same specs online :(
+[15:33] <tsunam> that works for me..at the same time?
+[15:33] <wltjr> but huge price diffs
+[15:33] <Dr_Who> same bat time .. same bat channel
+[15:33] <tsunam> wltjr: good luck
+[15:33] <crimethinker> don't buy Maytag
+[15:33] <crimethinker> had two new ones break within 2 years
+[15:33] <tsunam> ouch :(
+[15:33] <crimethinker> 2003 and 2005
+[15:33] <tsunam> still under waranty though?
+[15:33] <crimethinker> No
+[15:33] <wltjr> no buying today, just research, presently have a ~5yr kenmore that sucks
+[15:33] <tsunam> -_-
+[15:34] <fmccor> tsunam, Fine with me. Now, I *think* that perhaps the rest of the world might be going onto DST on the 30th?
+[15:34] <tsunam> so was that the plan on moving to the 20:00 at that time?
+[15:34] <wltjr> there is no good time, so this is fine 2 weeks ;)
+[15:34] <tsunam> well in any case let me know
+[15:34] <fmccor> No.
+[15:35] <tsunam> have a good afternoon all
+[15:35] <welp> evening!
+[15:35] <fmccor> tsunam, The reason for 1900 was that when Europe goes onto DST, they move up an hour, so 2000UTC is actually late Sunday evening.
+[15:35] <tsunam> look forward to reading the summary as well
+[15:35] <tsunam> k
+[15:35] <crimethinker> it's always the middle of the night somewhere
+[15:35] <Dr_Who> motion to adjourn
+[15:35] <omsai> trustees: Thank you for your explanations and all your work. Keep it up!
+[15:36] <fmccor> So moved.
+[15:36] * omsai has quit ("Leaving")
+[15:36] <[Carrie]> whee!
+[15:36] * nichoj_laptop has quit ()
+[15:37] * moozphat (n=ymoffett@bas5-montreal19-1279353876.dsl.bell.ca) has left #gentoo-trustees
+[15:37] <fmccor> shpaq, I'd be interested in what you are thinking of related to membership, but realistically, we can't address it until we have bylaws in some form in place.
+[15:39] <rane> we first need to expire a hundred of memberships
+[15:39] <rane> people we have no contact with anymore
+[15:39] <NeddySeagoon> sorry RL NMI
+[15:40] <crimethinker> kids are a joy.
+[15:40] <shpaq> fmccor: well, there is a large group of gentoo users who do something for gentoo
+[15:40] <shpaq> but they're non-developers for many reasons
+[15:41] <shpaq> so, i guess You could discuss opening membership for such persons
+[15:42] <fmccor> shpaq, And those will spell out membership as described above.
+[15:42] <NeddySeagoon> shpaq, it was on my election manifesto
+[15:42] <fmccor> shpaq, I agree with you, actually.
+[15:43] <NeddySeagoon> shpaq, but the bylaws we use for incorporation will not have those changes
+[15:43] <shpaq> NeddySeagoon: sorry, i didn't read it
+[15:43] <NeddySeagoon> shpaq No problem
+[15:43] <NeddySeagoon> Is that us done ?
+[15:43] <NeddySeagoon> Meeting over.
+[15:43] <shpaq> i guess yes
+[15:43] <NeddySeagoon> Sun Mar 16 20:43:57 GMT 2008
diff --git a/2008/03xx08.txt b/2008/03xx08.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..a15ac65
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/03xx08.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,202 @@
+<NeddySeagoon> Good Evening/Afternoon/Morning ... whatever fits your timezone
+[13:26] <rane> evening
+[13:28] <tgall_foo> hey NeddySeagoon .... or ... being entirely time politically correct ... good day cycle citizen!
+[13:28] <NeddySeagoon> heh
+[13:29] <fmccor> Afternoon works.
+[13:30] <fmccor> 2:30PM, thanks to early DST in the US. :(
+[13:31] <tgall_foo> yeah ... we hate it just as much as you fmccor!
+[13:31] <NeddySeagoon> I'm aware of US time zones ... I have to call the West coast more often that I like, but it helps that they seem to like to start early
+[14:00] <fmccor> Getting to be that time. Wonder if g2boojum has made it here yet.
+[14:01] <g2boojum> Finishing up an e-mail.
+[14:01] <fmccor> Fair enough. Welcome.
+[14:01] <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, This should be yours to lead, no?
+[14:02] <NeddySeagoon> Hi g2boojum
+[14:02] <NeddySeagoon> Good to see you.
+[14:03] <NeddySeagoon> I thought we could start with you telling us what you thing we need to know, then we'll ask questions .. is that ok ?
+[14:04] <g2boojum> I just sent two messages to trustees@g.o, so it might be a good idea to read those first.
+[14:04] <NeddySeagoon> ok
+[14:05] * tgall_foo brings those up
+[14:05] <fmccor> Don't have them yet
+[14:05] <NeddySeagoon> Nor me
+[14:05] <g2boojum> I meant to have those sent out beforehand, but I'm at work, and I'm fitting stuff in as best I can.
+[14:05] <tgall_foo> mail is better than no mail .. appreciate you taking the time g2boojum !
+[14:06] <g2boojum> tgall_foo: My pleasure.
+[14:06] <fmccor> tgall_foo, You got them?
+[14:08] <g2boojum> http://rafb.net/p/hwa9aa39.html
+[14:09] <g2boojum> http://rafb.net/p/nCDt9n76.html
+[14:11] <fmccor> Read them, thanks.
+[14:12] <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, thanks. Its a good start
+[14:12] <g2boojum> Who's handling money?
+[14:13] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, is
+[14:14] * tsunam waves
+[14:14] <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, its ended up like this ...
+[14:14] <NeddySeagoon> Roy - President
+[14:14] <NeddySeagoon> Ferris - Vice President
+[14:14] <NeddySeagoon> Josh - Treasurer
+[14:14] <NeddySeagoon> Tom - Secretary
+[14:14] <NeddySeagoon> William - Director
+[14:15] * willy-aka-dd (n=iskander@84-245-3-159.dsl.cambrium.nl) has joined #gentoo-trustees
+[14:15] <g2boojum> tsunam: I need your pgp key so I can send you the paypal info.
+[14:16] <tsunam> g2boojum: just need the key id or?
+[14:16] <g2boojum> tsunam: Yep. Just send me a signed e-mail.
+[14:16] <tsunam> k
+[14:17] * willy-aka-dd (n=iskander@84-245-3-159.dsl.cambrium.nl) has left #gentoo-trustees
+[14:18] <tsunam> g2boojum: email sent
+[14:18] <fmccor> wltjr has been talking to NM already. I suggest he follow up on that since he has the contacts.
+[14:19] <NeddySeagoon> yep, single points of contact usually work best
+[14:19] <wltjr> NM wants $25 and the paper work they sent + any sigs
+[14:20] <wltjr> g2boojum: wrt to your email, do you plan to send back the paperwork and $25 one sigs are obtained
+[14:20] <g2boojum> wltjr: Interesting, since they told me $70.
+[14:20] <NeddySeagoon> Whose sigs ? The new trustees or the old ones ?
+[14:20] <wltjr> g2boojum: I assume past trustee sigs
+[14:20] <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Old.
+[14:20] <wltjr> g2boojum: more than what you sent in? I am not sure on total, just balance they are waiting in is $25 reinstatement fee
+[14:20] <g2boojum> wltjr: They sent back my check.
+[14:21] <wltjr> g2boojum: ok, then not sure what she was telling me, but I guess in addition to the amount you sent, they wanted $25 for reinstatement
+[14:21] <wltjr> g2boojum: either way, is that a process you plan to follow up on? or would like to forward over the paperwork, and we will seek out sigs, send check, etc
+[14:22] <g2boojum> wltjr: We had signed forms, so I'm not quite sure what the problem was. I'm assuming that it's because they weren't all original signatures. Can you check on that? If that's the case, I'll send new forms on to wolf.
+[14:22] <NeddySeagoon> Will the old trustees still sign ? At least one resigned while the application was in progress
+[14:22] <tsunam> Ah so I need to find a bank ^_^
+[14:23] <wltjr> g2boojum: I was told the forms were processed, and they sent back other forms to be completed, plus needed $25, i was not aware of the forms not being completed properly or signed properly, or the original check being sent back
+[14:23] * tgall_foo returns
+[14:23] <g2boojum> wltjr: Okay, I'll have to check what they sent me, then. (Which I don't have at work, unfortunately.)
+[14:23] <wltjr> g2boojum: to call in again I need to know all form #'s, they only speak in form #s :)
+[14:23] <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think you just picked up clarifying this and seeing it through
+[14:24] <wltjr> g2boojum: what you sent, and what they sent back, etc :)
+[14:24] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no problem, but was going to help tsunam with gather info on sponsors and etc
+[14:24] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I can work it, but usually something principles will handle :)
+[14:24] <tsunam> wltjr: need to get a bank first currently =|
+[14:25] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: as you will end up being president on paperwork, and I think filings are done by secretary
+[14:25] <tgall_foo> tsunam, any suggestions as far as financial institutions ?
+[14:25] <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yeah that too - I think top of the list in reinstatement
+[14:25] <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but I can keep following through on what needs to be done, etc
+[14:25] <tsunam> tgall_foo: need to do some research
+[14:25] <tgall_foo> wltjr, ah! gotta pointer to the papers then ?
+[14:25] <tsunam> as we need someone that can deal with international
+[14:25] <wltjr> tsunam: bank will be circular, most banks won't create an account for an entity that does not exist
+[14:25] <wltjr> tgall_foo: no clue on paperwork, you all know basically what I do :)
+[14:26] <tsunam> luckily there's quite a few banks around so..
+[14:26] <tgall_foo> wltjr, heh... well
+[14:26] * tgall_foo digs out the shovel
+[14:26] <wltjr> tsunam: yes, would be nice to find one, but most are going to want some sort of ID, be it SSN, or EIN, etc
+[14:26] <tsunam> wltjr: yeah
+[14:26] <wltjr> tgall_foo: we need to wait on g2boojum for form #'s, then we can follow up with NM, I can surely make the call
+[14:26] <tsunam> wltjr: doesn't mean I can't talk to them and find who would be best
+[14:27] <NeddySeagoon> wltjr tsunam The entity gets one, when we have the entity again
+[14:27] * tgall_foo suspects he could get us an account at the bank downtown with no issues ... but uh ... not sure how good they would be dealing with international
+[14:27] <g2boojum> tsunam: You won't have any luck at all finding someone who can deal w/ the international stuff. We tried.
+[14:27] <tsunam> g2boojum: If not I'm sure I can find someone then
+[14:27] <tgall_foo> ok .. so priority is getting "entity status" back
+[14:27] <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, What 'international stuff' ?
+[14:28] <tgall_foo> yeah ... when we say international service ... what kinds of things do they need to do ?
+[14:28] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: reimbursing our european devs for stuff...
+[14:28] <g2boojum> tsunam: US is fine. It's a US corporation. But the person dealing with the bank will have to be a US citizen.
+[14:28] <wltjr> g2boojum: when you can plz email the form #'s to trustees@g.o, from there I can call NM and see where we are at
+[14:28] <tsunam> g2boojum: so will always have to have one us citizen on trustee's
+[14:28] <tgall_foo> tsunam, well that's just getting them funds in some reasonable way tho isn't it ?
+[14:28] <wltjr> I will report back, but from there would ike others to take any action
+[14:28] <tsunam> tgall_foo: in part
+[14:28] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, at least one.
+[14:29] <g2boojum> tsunam: No, you need one US citizen who is a Foundation member.
+[14:29] <g2boojum> tsunam: For practical matters, you use the bank web interface, which doesn't care about citizenship.
+[14:29] <g2boojum> wltjr: Will do.
+[14:29] <tsunam> g2boojum: true
+[14:30] <g2boojum> Also, we use paypal (right now) for most of our funding issues. It's far from ideal, but it does work well internationally.
+[14:30] <tsunam> g2boojum: yes it does
+[14:31] <tsunam> but the account can also be closed...so
+[14:31] <tsunam> that really worries me
+[14:31] <tgall_foo> tsunam, umm how do you mean ?
+[14:31] <tsunam> tgall_foo: paypal can freeze accounts
+[14:32] <tsunam> tgall_foo: so our account could in theory be frozen for a long enough time that basically we have no access to any funds there..and its a good portion if I recall
+[14:32] <wltjr> g2boojum: do we need to file a return or anything for 07, and did you all file one for 06 last year?
+[14:32] <g2boojum> tsunam: gpg-encrypted paypal info sent to you.
+[14:32] <tsunam> g2boojum: thank you
+[14:33] <g2boojum> wltjr: We've never filed a return. My understanding is that it's not required for a c6 w/ our yearly income, but it would be good to verify that fact.
+[14:33] <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, what did the old trustees count as 'income' ?
+[14:33] <tsunam> we still need to do quarterly financials as part of our deal for c* status
+[14:33] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: donations of money
+[14:33] <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Donations of money.
+[14:34] <tgall_foo> tsunam, that's a good reason to treat it sort of like a Business checkpoint ... IE trying to keep the balance in a certain range ... never higher or lower
+[14:34] <tsunam> *nods*
+[14:34] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, what about donations of services, and equipment or are we allowed to discount that
+[14:34] <tgall_foo> g2boojum, so we're official a c6 right now ?
+[14:34] <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I need to look at tax laws for those kinds of donations
+[14:35] <g2boojum> tgall_foo: No, better would be to file anyway, then it's not an issue.
+[14:35] <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ok
+[14:35] <tgall_foo> g2boojum, yes I agree with you there!
+[14:35] <tsunam> tgall_foo: no we're not federally a c anything
+[14:35] <tgall_foo> tho .. we've basically a month to get that done
+[14:35] <fmccor> tsunam, Better to talk with an accountant.
+[14:35] <tsunam> tgall_foo: we never submitted the documents to the irs
+[14:36] <tgall_foo> ok .. so item for the agenda for next week ... c* status ... we should probably make a decision there
+[14:36] <fmccor> tsunam, If you start chasing through the IRS code and regulations, you'll drown.
+[14:36] <NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, the decision is for us - we can't have a open vote at the meeting
+[14:36] <tsunam> fmccor: oh I know I've done it before
+[14:36] <wltjr> g2boojum: offhand, in brief do you recall the differences between a c3 and c6 wrt to donations, as in having to keep donations in balance, no excess from one?
+[14:37] <tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, right ... just suggesting it is something we need to take action on ...
+[14:37] <fmccor> tsunam, Case law, too?
+[14:37] <tsunam> wltjr: c3 = civilians can donate and write it off....c6 only business's
+[14:37] <g2boojum> tgall_foo: You can't get c3 status (realistically) w/ the current incorporation. Our Articles don't really support it. You'd need to reincorporate. I highly recommend leaving c3 to an umbrella org, or staying w/ c6.
+[14:37] <tsunam> fmccor: nope, otherwise its been rights to access to property etc
+[14:37] <wltjr> IMHO I think the difference between a c3 and c6 is so moot, and mostly on the donators end, for us it's not worth the effort or time, unless we have a reason or benefit on our end
+[14:38] <tgall_foo> g2boojum, well if it's not filed ... be kinda like starting over ... but regardless yes I agree ... c6 is probably the right thing ... least from what little I remember on the diff between c3, c6
+[14:38] <wltjr> tsunam: I think that's the wrong way to go, we are better to increase donations and support from businesses rather than individuals
+[14:38] <tsunam> wltjr: businesses can writeoff c3's as well
+[14:38] <tgall_foo> wltjr, well in the end.... we're get money from both I'm sure
+[14:39] <wltjr> tsunam: yes, but I recall there are other things, again the balancing of donations, need to get details on that one way or another
+[14:39] <tgall_foo> tsunam, yes exactly ...
+[14:39] <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, tsunam keep it for later, please g2boojums' time is precious
+[14:39] <tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, what other things would you like to cover .. or items in deeper detail that have been discussed ?
+[14:40] <g2boojum> tgall_foo: You miss my point. The c3 filing takes the Articles of Incorporation into account. Ours don't have the appropriate language to support a c3. (These are the Articles that were accepted by NM, so we can't change them.)
+[14:40] <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, if you were starting out as we are, with the benefit of your hindsight, what would you do differently ?
+[14:41] <wltjr> seems like g2boojum should go ahead and send the physical check to tsunam for when ever he can open a new bank account
+[14:41] <tgall_foo> g2boojum, oooo I see what you're getting at
+[14:42] <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, that will be after we get incorportated, we need someone to lend Gentoo to $70 or is that in paypal ?
+[14:42] <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Regular meetings that are open to the public. That keeps what's happening visible. Regular reports of what's being done by those who are doing them. Dumping all of this on an umbrella org as fast as possible, in case the first two fail anyway.
+[14:43] <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, thats pretty much what we all plan
+[14:43] <wltjr> g2boojum: so once you provide form #'s I call NM and find out where we are at, do you want us to take over from there? or do you want to still participate in the filing? beyond you signature
+[14:44] <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, without any finger pointing, what did the last trustees do incorrectly, that we can learn from ?
+[14:44] <g2boojum> wltjr: The signatures should be all that's actually required for reinstatement. I don't mind sending the check, and somebody can reimburse me. You folks can handle getting a registered agent, though.
+[14:45] <rane> also, please start using -nfp instead of mailing everything between each other
+[14:45] <tsunam> yep we need to
+[14:45] <wltjr> g2boojum: ok, so I will make sure I include you when I report back from NM, so you can take what ever final action, just wanted to be clear :)
+[14:45] <wltjr> g2boojum: and ty, since it's no longer your duty and you are very busy, much appreciated
+[14:45] <tsunam> ^^^ seconded
+[14:45] <tgall_foo> ^^^^ thirded
+[14:46] <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, did you learn all the stuff along the way or is it related to your day job ?
+[14:46] <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Lack of follow-through. Read the gentoo-nfp and gentoo-trustee logs, and that will give you an idea.
+[14:46] <fmccor> g2boojum, Thanks a lot for your time. We all appreciate it.
+[14:46] <wltjr> g2boojum: I have on doubt tsunam will reimburse you and fmccor ASAP, and thanks for covering that out of pocket in mean time
+[14:46] <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Along the way.
+[14:46] <wltjr> s/have on/have no
+[14:46] <g2boojum> My pleasure.
+[14:46] <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, thankd for your time
+[14:47] <g2boojum> wltjr: I'm relying on tsunam reimbursing fmccor w/ the paypal info I sent him. tsunam: If you run into trouble, /msg me.
+[14:47] <g2boojum> Okay, I have to dash. Thanks, all.
+[14:47] <wltjr> g2boojum: ok, then if there is enough funds in there ,he could reimburse you the same :)
+[14:47] <NeddySeagoon> thanks
+[14:47] <tsunam> g2boojum: will do
+[14:47] <tsunam> wltjr: there is...
+[14:48] <wltjr> then we are set :)
+[14:48] <NeddySeagoon> That was really useful
+[14:48] <tgall_foo> thanks g2boojum !
+[14:48] <fmccor> Yes, it was.
+[14:48] <tsunam> g2boojum: please send me what I need to send you to reimburse you for what you've done.
+[14:48] <tsunam> fmccor: as well you do the same
+[14:48] <wltjr> someone, maybe tgall_foo being sec :) want to do a quick summary of where things are at for -nfp or maybe pr, but mostly just -nfp, so we are being transparent :)
+[14:49] <fmccor> tsunam, It's attached to KingTaco's bug.
+[14:49] <NeddySeagoon> rane, can we find out who subscribes to -nfp ?
+[14:49] <rane> NeddySeagoon, yes
+[14:49] <tsunam> both of you, if you can give me at least a somewhat detail what its for "reinbursement for filing in new mexico" etc
+[14:49] <wltjr> tgall_foo: not to toss you under a bus, again :)
+[14:49] <tgall_foo> wltjr, that I can and will do
+[14:49] <rane> NeddySeagoon, infra can provide you with such a list
+[14:49] <tsunam> fmccor: send me an email please with the bug # then
+[14:49] <NeddySeagoon> rane, a number (no names) woulf be good
+[14:49] <tsunam> fmccor: works better for me
+[14:49] <tgall_foo> wltjr, naw ... it's part of the pain I signed up for!
+[14:49] <wltjr> tgall_foo: ty :), and we will all be collectively suffering together :o
+[14:49] <fmccor> Sure. I'll send you the attachment.
+[14:50] <fmccor> I just need to chase it down.
+[14:50] <rane> there was a page with all lists and number of subscribers
+[14:50] <rane> somewhere
diff --git a/2008/042008.txt b/2008/042008.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..66981eb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/042008.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,785 @@
+--- Log opened Sun Apr 20 14:26:31 2008
+14:26 -!- Irssi: #gentoo-trustees: Total of 26 nicks [7 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal]
+14:26 -!- mode/#gentoo-trustees [+o wltjr] by ChanServ
+14:27 -!- Irssi: Join to #gentoo-trustees was synced in 62 secs
+14:30 <@tgall_foo> hey wltjr
+14:37 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: afternoon
+14:48 <@NeddySeagoon> Its 8:00pm local :)
+14:48 < rane> hi guys
+14:49 < rane> i'm late 48 minutes or early 12?
+14:49 < rane> or maybe it's not today
+14:49 <@wltjr> rane: 11 min still
+14:50 * fmccor checks in
+14:50 <@fmccor> We're trying to keep this to no more than an hour, correct?
+14:51 <@fmccor> Good afternoon. Majority rules. :)
+14:51 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I hope so. any real life meeting that takes over an hour usually accomplishes very little
+14:52 <@NeddySeagoon> Its not very popular, only 26 nicks, perhaps we should drop the price of the tickets ?
+14:53 <@fmccor> Or offer free beer.
+14:54 <@NeddySeagoon> :)
+14:56 < rane> or use Donnie to advertise it more
+14:57 <@NeddySeagoon> rane, I don't think the majority of devs are interested in the Foundation ... unless users are saying Gentoo is in crisis because we don't have one
+14:59 <@tgall_foo> ok
+14:59 <@tgall_foo> fmccor: I hope we can keep it to under 30 minutes!
+15:00 * NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order. Roll Call ...
+15:00 <@tgall_foo> present!
+15:00 < rane> go go go
+15:00 * wltjr is present
+15:00 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, wltjr tsunam
+15:01 * fmccor is here
+15:01 * tgall_foo notes it is a very nice day out so it's quite difficult to be here :-)
+15:01 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, do you stll have tsunams cell number handy ?
+15:01 <@fmccor> Cold here with rain and thunderstorms.
+15:02 <@fmccor> Someplace
+15:02 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Would you give him a prod please. Keep an eye on your screen too
+15:03 <@NeddySeagoon> 1. Introductions we can probably skip that
+15:03 * fmccor looks
+15:03 <@NeddySeagoon> 2. Actions From the Last Meeting ...
+15:03 <@NeddySeagoon> Incorporation Status - fmccor you want to say a few words ?
+15:05 <@fmccor> Sure. All paperwork for reinstatement was filed with New Mexico on the 15th and we are waiting for them to respond.
+15:05 <@fmccor> Lawyer's office figures two or 3 days up to 3 weeks, depending on how busy the state agency is.
+15:05 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, The status http://www.nmprc.state.nm.us/cgi-bin/prcdtl.cgi?2463313 will be updated when they are bone ?
+15:06 <@NeddySeagoon> done*
+15:06 <@wltjr> should be those are public records, should be same database
+15:06 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks
+15:06 <@fmccor> Yes, I suppose.
+15:07 * tgall_foo notes the URL for the minutes but qualifies it as not necessarily being up to date
+15:07 <@fmccor> Lawyer says he will send all of us copies of the reinstatement papers from NM.
+15:07 <@tgall_foo> great
+15:07 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Hmm - to the UK too ?
+15:08 <@tgall_foo> anything more to be done there or just hurry up and wait ?
+15:08 * wltjr thinks we might want to consider EarthMail at some point
+15:08 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll be happy with a scan
+15:08 <@wltjr> should be able to get a box or something in NM, and they will digitize all mail, and store it physically
+15:08 <@wltjr> multi user accounts, I wouldn't normally use it, but might be ideal for an entity like us
+15:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Its hurry up and wait then
+15:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Next ...
+15:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Foundation Bylaws Status - all
+15:09 <@fmccor> Lawyer can't scan --- that's why I have paper copies.
+15:09 <@fmccor> I think there are two issues.
+15:10 * wltjr is still working through it, but thinks we might need a meeting specific on the by laws
+15:10 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, to agree the exact wording, probably
+15:10 <@wltjr> fmccor: earth mail scans it all, but can't be registered agent
+15:10 <@fmccor> Voting --- I think we are clear on that now. (Essentially, do it like now, non-developers vote via signed (pgp) email).
+15:10 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, what do you see as issues ?
+15:10 <@tgall_foo> yes I think we need a working meeting specific to the bylaws ... OR we should consider forming a committee to work on it and come back with a recommendation
+15:10 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well I have lots of comments, i am taking notes on the sections, none are in depth, but need to be discussed
+15:11 <@fmccor> Membership. I actually think we have essential agreement on that.
+15:11 <@wltjr> fmccor: actually the who signing thing wrt to the by laws should take in account gpg keys
+15:11 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, We will look forward to your email - if they can be discussed off line, so much the beter
+15:11 <@wltjr> short of legal signings, and there is also mention of snail mail in their like in section 3.4 Notice, I don't think applies
+15:12 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, snail mail might be required by law
+15:12 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yep, no IRC voting for the membership
+15:12 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well I almost think we should all go section by section through it in a meeting, and discuss it
+15:12 <@wltjr> will take way to long via email IMHO
+15:12 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, I agree ... or form a committee
+15:12 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: well then we have to make sure we start doing that, but I am not sure it;s applicable for us, we should consititue electronic mail instead
+15:12 <@fmccor> There are 5 of us --- I think that's a good enough size for a committee.
+15:12 <@tgall_foo> with the direction that the committee needs to complete it's work by say 1 month's time
+15:12 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, agreed but not until we have done a pass by email, then we need a meeting on what left
+15:13 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: not sure we need it to be a committee, I think we will want direct input on it, wrt to our thoughts
+15:13 <@tgall_foo> just suggesting options
+15:13 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: sure I would love to delegate it ;)
+15:13 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, so you're proposing .. .initial go through via email ... and then a dedicated meeting ?
+15:13 <@wltjr> but like for exapmle section 5.3 compensation, I think we should flat out say there isn't compensation
+15:13 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, yes
+15:13 <@wltjr> I don't think we should leave it up to a committee to decide that
+15:14 <@fmccor> Let's go by email and then meet in 2 weeks with the goal of finishing it off. I think we ourselves are the committee.
+15:14 <@wltjr> also 4.3, 4.6, 4.7, 4.9 all seem to require member voting for any action, and that's going to be allot of work
+15:14 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, so how about you make that a motion ? ;-)
+15:14 < Philantrop> May I just ask why non-devs should be members of the Foundation? I didn't really find a reason on -nfp@.
+15:14 <@tgall_foo> Philantrop, not everyone writes code ....
+15:14 <@fmccor> Philantrop, retired developers are members now.
+15:14 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think the bylaws should be general. If we make $100M this year, we will have earned smoe compensation
+15:14 <@wltjr> approval, removal, etc of any member is basically done by voting, board or officers have no power to approve, remove, etc
+15:15 < Philantrop> fmccor: Yes, which I didn't like either.
+15:15 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well ok if we earn $100m, and next year new officers decide to pay themselves $50k
+15:15 < Philantrop> tgall_foo: "Devs" includes staff as it is today. :-)
+15:15 <@wltjr> or more, I think we need to flat out say it's volunteer
+15:15 <@wltjr> until the foundation has $, offices, and can pay people ot work part time or full time
+15:15 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I have no strong feelings on thge point
+15:15 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, agreed. Note that in some cases (like details of membership) the bylaws can authorize the trustees to set policy by, say, unanimous vote.
+15:15 <@tgall_foo> Philantrop, depends on your definition .. which from person to person has historically not been the same ... I agree with you tho
+15:16 <@wltjr> IMHO turstees have no business paying themselves at this time, so without a re-write of by laws, should be no provisions for such things
+15:16 <@NeddySeagoon> Can we agree that wltjr will complete he review, we will each respond by email once only than have a meeting ?
+15:16 <@tgall_foo> we're getting into detail ...
+15:16 < Philantrop> tgall_foo: No, that's really pretty clear. "Gentoo Dev" includes staff.
+15:16 <@fmccor> Trustees, no. Officers perhaps.
+15:16 <@wltjr> nor things like increasing the # of trustees without a update of by laws, as in 5.7
+15:16 <@tgall_foo> Philantrop, historically that wasn't the case ... juts fyi
+15:17 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, works for me.
+15:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Can we agree that wltjr will complete he review, we will each respond by email once only than have a meeting ?
+15:17 <@tgall_foo> can we close on process please ?
+15:17 <@wltjr> yeah, there's lots of detail, thus IMHO we should do a meeting specific to it, and go through each section, shouldn't take more than 1-2 hours
+15:17 <@fmccor> Agreed.
+15:17 <@NeddySeagoon> ok ... agrred - one round of email, then meeting
+15:17 <@wltjr> yep, I am barely in section 5, so no where near ready to speak on it entirely
+15:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets move on
+15:18 <@NeddySeagoon> Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam
+15:18 <@wltjr> sure, but I think we can do better discussing in irc than email, but either way
+15:18 <@tgall_foo> so motion that the process for forming a set of bylaws to approve will consist of 1) a round of input via email followed by 2) a dedicated meeting (to be set at some date by the chair) to cover and finalized the proposed bylaws
+15:18 <@wltjr> that works
+15:18 <@NeddySeagoon> yes
+15:18 <@fmccor> Yes
+15:18 <@tgall_foo> the motion needs a second ...
+15:18 <@NeddySeagoon> seconded
+15:18 <@fmccor> second
+15:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Thats 3 ot of 5 carried
+15:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam
+15:19 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, point of order
+15:19 <@wltjr> did anyone call him?
+15:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Anyone know whats happening ?
+15:19 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, you need to ask for further discussion ... then hearing none call for a vote
+15:19 * fmccor is not finding tsunam's cell number. Thinks we need a list posted someplace we can find it.
+15:19 <@tgall_foo> fmccor: I thought that was out via email
+15:19 * wltjr calls tsunam, has it handy
+15:19 * tgall_foo is a stickler for Roberts Rules
+15:20 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, ok .. I think its clear from the record, so I'm not going to go over it
+15:20 <@wltjr> tsunam will be here shortly
+15:21 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets come back to banking ...
+15:21 <@NeddySeagoon> 3. Formal Communications With Members
+15:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well we do need to proceed accordingly, so tgall_foo isn't wrong for pointing out things, so no worries on this one, but we should get into habit of proper proceedings
+15:21 <@tgall_foo> ok ... so by the bylaws I need to post notice of meetings in it would seem several circumstances
+15:21 <@NeddySeagoon> We are required by law to notify members of meetings, the AGM at least
+15:22 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Agreed
+15:22 <@tgall_foo> besides helps the minutes ;-)
+15:22 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yeah and I believe one of those ways is via snail mail per by laws, I believe, seems a bit much IMHO unless that's only for special meetings or voting
+15:22 <@tsunam> *waves*
+15:22 <@NeddySeagoon> If we use email modelled on snail mail, we need a mailing list
+15:22 <@tgall_foo> well there's meetings of the membership
+15:23 <@tgall_foo> and then these meetings
+15:23 <@NeddySeagoon> welcome tr
+15:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: something like post to ml/announcement-ml and formal pr piece should be good no?
+15:23 <@NeddySeagoon> welcome tsunam
+15:23 <@fmccor> tgall_foo, It is, but not under an obvious subject.
+15:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: maybe if we have a list of members emails, we email each one
+15:24 <@tgall_foo> i would like top suggest that in either case that a post on gentoo.org with the link to the proposed agenda should suffice
+15:24 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: thus no option to not get, no need to be on a list or following, direct email, will bounce if they don't get it
+15:24 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, It must not have an opt out ... so gentoo-foundation-announce would be good with all members subscrible
+15:24 <@tgall_foo> least until the bylaws are worked out
+15:24 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: bounce can be considered return to sender wrt to regular mail
+15:24 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yeah that works
+15:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we have list of emails, we add them to ml, we use ml for notice, guess one might say not personal, but each get's their own copy, just have to know from infra on bounces
+15:25 < Philantrop> NeddySeagoon: I can reject any regular mail and the same should be possible for a mailinglist. Initially, subscribe every member but let them opt-out.
+15:25 <@fmccor> wltjr, I think that would be sufficient.
+15:25 <@tsunam> course we need an accurate list of members to begin with *cough*
+15:25 <@wltjr> yes, and the whole membership process sucks
+15:25 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, yeah
+15:25 <@tsunam> membership process is
+15:25 <@wltjr> members vote to approve other members, I guess we are supposed to have some form?
+15:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Well, we are in the process of sorting that
+15:26 <@fmccor> Philantrop, I think an opt-out would be the same as a resignation.
+15:26 <@tsunam> "been a developer for a year, yes...you're a member of the foundation
+15:26 <@tgall_foo> again ... until the bylaws are sorted out ...... how about just a post to gentoo.org for now?
+15:26 <@tgall_foo> I agree the membership issue is a bit complicated
+15:26 <@wltjr> for devs or staff members it's not a problem, but wrt to the community, users, etc
+15:26 < Philantrop> fmccor: Oh, great. So I need to accept any mail if I want to be a member?
+15:26 <@fmccor> Any mail to the foundation members, sure.
+15:26 <@NeddySeagoon> Philantrop, nope, you can send it to /dev/null
+15:27 <@wltjr> Philantrop: we will likely use email as a form of formal notification in lieu of like snail mail
+15:27 <@tsunam> wltjr: community/users have no ability to be in the foundation
+15:27 <@tsunam> wltjr: that's not complicated
+15:27 < Philantrop> wltjr: As I said: I can reject any mail from my local sports club when the postman wants to deliver it. Same should be possible here.
+15:27 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ex devs ?
+15:27 <@wltjr> tsunam: well at this time, I think that's something we need to change
+15:27 <@wltjr> Philantrop: filter it then
+15:27 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: bylaws state that they are gone after a period of time "retired"
+15:28 * fmccor favors something like member@foundation.gentoo.org
+15:28 <@tsunam> wltjr: I don't
+15:28 < Philantrop> wltjr: Some people pay for bandwidth...
+15:28 <@wltjr> Philantrop: or as to be removed from the foundation membership
+15:28 <@tsunam> Philantrop: what you do on your side, we don't care about
+15:28 <@wltjr> Philantrop: if your talking mail from g.o, do it on d.g.o, and via procmail, will never hit your machine or pipe
+15:28 <@tsunam> Philantrop: its a non issue
+15:28 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, agreed ... but their gentoo.org address may be gone before they leave the Foundation
+15:28 <@wltjr> tsunam: I think the by laws at least the draft mentions a application or form we lack
+15:29 <@wltjr> tsunam: so I think there is supposed to be ways for he community to join, it's just never been available or created
+15:29 <@tsunam> wltjr: 2 seconds... Name: Address: phone number:
+15:29 < Philantrop> tsunam: Ok, thanks. Considering that you want to keep non-devs as members, "drive the distribution" and blackmail members into being part of a mailinglist, I think I'll just stay out of this foundation thing.
+15:29 <@tsunam> wltjr: no...
+15:29 <@wltjr> tsunam: 4.3, membership application
+15:29 <@fmccor> wltjr, The bylaws can authorize the trustees to set such a thing up.
+15:30 <@tsunam> wltjr: you are supossed to apply to become a member of the foundation. We have until this point just said anyone who's been a year is lumped in
+15:30 <@tgall_foo> well are we trying to implement notification of members prior to acceptance of the bylaws .. or are we trying to get something in place prior to the approval of the bylaws just so people cn know about these meetings ?
+15:30 <@tsunam> wltjr: we've always limited it to the developers
+15:30 <@tsunam> wltjr: there's no way to tell the good longstanding of a "user" they could have been around for 7 years, or 7 days
+15:31 <@wltjr> developers/staff members, etc, should get auto application/joining of foundation as part of recruitment, which they can opt out of during recruitment or afterward I guess
+15:31 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, I don't see the order as important, the members don't get to vote on the bylaws this time round.
+15:31 <@wltjr> tsunam: well application doesn't mean acceptance
+15:31 <@fmccor> tsunam, I'd leave the possibility in the bylaws and bump the details to action by the trustees.
+15:31 <@NeddySeagoon> They may get to vote on chnages, later
+15:31 <@wltjr> as I read it, applications are voted on by all members, which a 1/3 majority or etc would be required for approval or acceptance into foundation
+15:31 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, true... seems to me that short term as long as we get the word out as best can that should be good enough until the bylaws are in force at which case we will be in agreement on membership issues
+15:32 <@fmccor> Correct --- bylaws (by law, in fact) are initially under control of the board (trustees).
+15:32 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, ok. I propose we postpone further discussion on this topic until the bylaws are agreed
+15:32 <@wltjr> and the board or officers have no influence or power of membership, that's purely up to a vote, once there are members to the foundation, or so section 4 seems to read
+15:32 <@NeddySeagoon> Do I hear a second ?
+15:32 <@wltjr> yeah this is all by law sstuff
+15:32 <@fmccor> Second
+15:32 <@tgall_foo> second
+15:33 <@NeddySeagoon> Vote
+15:33 <@fmccor> And agreed.
+15:33 <@wltjr> yeah
+15:33 <@tgall_foo> yea
+15:33 <@NeddySeagoon> OK, lets move on
+15:33 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, back to you Gentoo Foundation Banking
+15:34 <@tsunam> waiting on EIN as I have no intention to use my EIN (social security) to setup the bank account
+15:34 * wltjr wonders if there is much he can do less NM papers
+15:34 <@wltjr> tsunam: never got that from g2boojum ?
+15:34 <@tsunam> nope
+15:34 <@tsunam> I've not gotten the value of the check he has in his posession either
+15:34 <@wltjr> tsunam: did you get access to store? does any trustee have access to it?
+15:34 <@tsunam> and I've called him twice
+15:34 <@tsunam> wltjr: nope
+15:35 <@fmccor> Our NMPRC# is 2463313
+15:35 <@wltjr> ok, we need to get on g2boojum then a bit, so we can leave him alone :) just need a check and EIN from him
+15:35 * wltjr will look for EIN lookup tool
+15:35 <@tsunam> I really need access to the value of the check so that I can get close to balancing the entire foundation quarterly reports
+15:35 <@tsunam> that's the hold up I have on the quarterly reports for the past 2 years
+15:35 <@wltjr> tsunam: also the store has $$ I hear
+15:35 <@fmccor> That seems to be how New Mexico identifies us.
+15:35 <@tsunam> fmccor: that won't work for opening a bank account
+15:36 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Its pretty moot until we have a working bank account
+15:36 <@tsunam> fmccor: ein is a federal tax number
+15:36 <@tgall_foo> indeed
+15:36 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well tsunam still needs to be aware of amounts and in control of store
+15:36 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, True
+15:36 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: might be able to transfer store funds to paypal, or something
+15:36 <@wltjr> one location
+15:37 <@fmccor> tsunam, NM doesn't care about that, so I don't have it.
+15:37 <@wltjr> tsunam: we should see if you can put that check into paypal for now
+15:37 <@tsunam> fmccor: aye :(
+15:37 <@tsunam> wltjr: no
+15:37 <@wltjr> so all funds are in one place till we have a bank account
+15:37 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, is there any point is anyone else calling g2boojum ?
+15:37 <@wltjr> tsunam: well up to you, just didn't want you to have to track $ else where
+15:37 <@tsunam> wltjr: I don't want all gentoo money in an account that can be shut down temporary by paypal itself and we have access to NO money
+15:38 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, agreed
+15:38 <@wltjr> tsunam: I doubt paypal would do that to a NPO, a quick phone call to the news or etc would likely end that
+15:38 <@tsunam> wltjr: possibly
+15:38 <@wltjr> tsunam: but who's to say the same couldn't happen to the store?
+15:38 <@tsunam> wltjr: I'd rather avoid the issue though
+15:38 <@wltjr> tsunam: or the check be lost or etc
+15:38 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the mud would stick. Lets keep or money in several places
+15:38 <@wltjr> tsunam: well IMHO I would trust PayPal with $ before cafepress
+15:38 <@fmccor> Could you put it into an escrow account?
+15:38 <@tsunam> wltjr: it'd be in a firesafe box with grant, same with me, and unless either of us kicks the bucket we'd know where it is
+15:39 <@tsunam> wltjr: also be sent via fexex/ups with tracking
+15:39 <@tgall_foo> well once we have the check we should have the ein which gets us an account
+15:39 <@wltjr> tsunam: and insured?
+15:39 <@tsunam> tgall_foo: correct
+15:39 <@tsunam> wltjr: should be yes
+15:39 <@wltjr> tsunam: point being if bank is MIA if anything happens to check what then?
+15:39 <@tsunam> wltjr: be expensive to insure =)
+15:39 <@wltjr> thus cash ASAP IMHO and get some where you can control
+15:40 <@wltjr> tsunam: should be moot, should have status before funds :)
+15:40 <@tsunam> wltjr: we've not had access to that cash in the check for 2 years...
+15:40 <@wltjr> depending on when we get in touch with g2boojum
+15:40 <@tsunam> wltjr: this all assumes the check is still GOOD
+15:40 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more for any more on banking ?
+15:40 <@tgall_foo> is it a cashier's check?
+15:40 <@wltjr> I am pretty sure I can get EIN, if not from a free online tool I have a client :)
+15:40 <@tsunam> wltjr: checks do have a shelf life
+15:40 <@wltjr> tsunam: thus cash it, if we need to in PayPal fo rnow
+15:40 <@wltjr> before g2boojum heads for mexico
+15:40 <@tsunam> lol
+15:40 <@NeddySeagoon> heh
+15:40 <@tsunam> again, I need the check for that
+15:40 <@wltjr> tsunam: same for the store, before infra buys toys
+15:41 <@wltjr> but serious, does anyone have access to the store?
+15:41 <@tsunam> wolf
+15:41 <@wltjr> isn't that supposed to be under out control?
+15:41 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, so the next move is to pester g2boojum
+15:41 <@fmccor> Yes
+15:41 <@wltjr> tsunam: can you get that from him plz
+15:41 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: correct
+15:41 <@wltjr> I believe should have been provided during hand over of reins, along with check, ein, etc :)
+15:41 <@tsunam> wltjr: I really don't want to be in charge of the store personally but
+15:41 <@NeddySeagoon> ok ... lets move on, we can't resolve anythng here
+15:41 <@wltjr> tsunam: just for now because it has $ ni it
+15:41 <@tsunam> meh
+15:41 <@tsunam> fine fine
+15:42 <@wltjr> tsunam: I don't care so much about the store, but I hear there is $ there, and it's a few $k I believe
+15:42 <@tgall_foo> do one of us have to be in charge of the store?
+15:42 <@wltjr> tsunam: I don't see wolf doing anything bad there, but again technicalities, no longer his responsibility in the organization, so
+15:42 <@fmccor> No, we can delegate.
+15:42 <@tgall_foo> kk
+15:42 <@wltjr> yeah I don't care about that, just that any $ goes to the treasurer or is in their control
+15:42 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets get bacl to the agenda please
+15:43 <@wltjr> funds should be available to no one else, IMHO
+15:43 <@NeddySeagoon> 4. Voicing Foundation Members in #gentoo-trustees
+15:43 <@tsunam> I have no issue with that
+15:43 <@wltjr> are only devs voiced here?
+15:43 <@tgall_foo> lotta work but worth it
+15:43 <@NeddySeagoon> The whole point of this was to be able to take votes of the members on IRC
+15:43 <@wltjr> sure, ties into having a list though :)
+15:43 <@wltjr> and nics that they stick with and don't change
+15:44 <@NeddySeagoon> There are no voices here now
+15:44 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I would keep the channel public, but voice the members as well. Why? Because then they are immediately identified.
+15:44 <@wltjr> I have np with members having a voice, once we have a list and know who they are :)
+15:44 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, you think its useful for other things than voting ?
+15:44 <@fmccor> E.g., I can see the trustees by the little green dot. I'd like to be able to see the members by the little orange dot.
+15:45 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, It's useful for a quick count of what members are here in case we ever need it.
+15:45 <@NeddySeagoon> My view is that anyone may speak and seek to inflence the foundation but only members get to vote ... so why bother woth voice ?
+15:46 <@tgall_foo> just a quick identifier....
+15:46 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+15:46 <@fmccor> Right.
+15:46 <@tgall_foo> perk of membership :-)
+15:46 <@fmccor> Also right.
+15:46 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion that members be voiced here, after the bylaws have been adopted
+15:46 <@fmccor> second.
+15:46 <@tsunam> aye
+15:46 <@NeddySeagoon> vote
+15:46 <@fmccor> Yes.
+15:46 <@wltjr> yeah
+15:46 <@NeddySeagoon> Carried
+15:46 <@tgall_foo> yea
+15:47 <@NeddySeagoon> 5. Bugs Assigned to Trustees
+15:47 <@NeddySeagoon> 117837 Funding request: wildcard SSL cert
+15:47 * wltjr would like to wait on the SSL cert with CA till we have a new papers
+15:47 <@fmccor> Reasonable.
+15:47 <@wltjr> the letter seems to state the paper work accompanies it, and I know previous paperwork has been sent
+15:47 <@NeddySeagoon> Do we need the papers ?
+15:48 <@wltjr> but if they question it, like who is requesting it, we have nothing to back that up, as in who we are, and our authority
+15:48 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: the letter seems to mention it, infra says they will use letter previously on file, but that just doesn't sound right to me
+15:48 <@NeddySeagoon> it should only be a few weeks tops .. ok
+15:48 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^
+15:48 <@wltjr> yeah, NM was pretty quick last time, i would imagine by end of next ewek
+15:48 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: hmm?
+15:49 <@tgall_foo> so table this one ?
+15:49 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Can we agreed now that we will fund this as soon as our paperwork is in order ?
+15:49 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no need for funding on cert
+15:49 <@wltjr> CA is free
+15:49 <@wltjr> just have to file papers with them
+15:49 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: that's not up to me, I will just write the check/paypal the money if everyone concurs
+15:49 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: we have the money to be able to fund it yes
+15:49 <@NeddySeagoon> even better
+15:50 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, it seems to be free :)
+15:50 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we could vote if we want to do CA or paid cert, infra kinda perfers CA for the whole spirit
+15:50 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: taco said paid, robbat2 said CA, so :)
+15:50 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion to back the CA cert as soon as paperwork is available
+15:50 <@wltjr> second
+15:50 <@NeddySeagoon> vote
+15:50 <@wltjr> yeah
+15:50 <@fmccor> yes.
+15:51 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ?
+15:51 <@tgall_foo> yea
+15:51 <@tsunam> abstain
+15:51 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, may I ask why ?
+15:51 <@tsunam> its whatever infra decides is best for them in my opinion
+15:52 <@wltjr> tsunam: stalemate unless another comments on bug
+15:52 <@tsunam> they are the ones who ultimatley have to decide so they should pick what they want to use
+15:52 <@wltjr> tsunam: I am not getting between taco and robbat2 :)
+15:52 <@tsunam> generally stalemates = no :-P
+15:52 <@tsunam> wltjr: I have no problem on that :-P
+15:52 <@fmccor> wltjr, :)
+15:52 <@wltjr> tsunam: so what we do neither?
+15:52 <@tsunam> tell infra to pick one
+15:52 <@wltjr> tsunam: your the tree hugger, thought you would be on the side of free :)
+15:52 <@wltjr> tsunam: I did
+15:53 <@tgall_foo> I count 3-0-1 with 1 not voted yet
+15:53 <@wltjr> tsunam: I got two answers
+15:53 <@wltjr> tsunam: robbat2 commented again about CA so I guess that's final?
+15:53 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, I understand you abstention. Thank you for sharing. We should go back to infra then, since our role is to support them
+15:53 <@wltjr> ok, I will get further comments from them :)
+15:54 <@wltjr> ah last comment from taco said no CA
+15:54 * tgall_foo notes the motion passed
+15:54 * wltjr shakes head at infra
+15:54 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, make a comment on the bug that we will support either cert
+15:55 < jmbsvicetto> Didn't I send a list with the full list of members of the foundation?
+15:55 <@fmccor> Yes.
+15:55 < jmbsvicetto> ok
+15:55 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, you did
+15:55 < jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: The idea was to have an annoucement list that would only be used for things like meetings' notices
+15:55 <@NeddySeagoon> next bug # 126707 Proposal to fund bugday incentives/rewards
+15:55 * wltjr commented on bug
+15:56 < Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Let's talk about that during open floor.
+15:56 < jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: sure
+15:57 <@tsunam> I would suggest talking to current bugday runners as this bug is over 2 years old
+15:57 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm against doing anything like this on a regular basis
+15:57 < eroyf> wow
+15:57 <@tsunam> see if they still would like it
+15:57 < eroyf> that's really old
+15:57 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I say we defer till a later date/meeting, low priority, and we have no funds, depending on what they are seeking
+15:57 < eroyf> before my time as bugday lead
+15:57 <@tgall_foo> I agree with Grant ... t-shirts or something tangible is best ... cash prize I'm not so hot on that kind of idea
+15:57 < eroyf> does welp know about it?
+15:57 <@wltjr> or close it :)
+15:57 <@tsunam> eroyf: unlikely
+15:57 <@fmccor> tgall_foo, I agree
+15:57 < eroyf> i didn't know about it
+15:57 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets close
+15:57 <@NeddySeagoon> it
+15:57 < eroyf> giving cash prizes sucks.. give them a t-shirt instead or something
+15:58 < eroyf> that'd be win
+15:58 < eroyf> but talk with welp about it
+15:58 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, k ... and then they can reopen with a proposal if they really want to do that ?
+15:58 <@NeddySeagoon> eroyf, shipping costs more than the Tee shirt
+15:58 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, yes
+15:58 <@wltjr> also once funds are available and plentiful, after bank account etc
+15:58 < eroyf> NeddySeagoon: yeah :(
+15:58 <@tgall_foo> I'll volunteer to talk to welp about it then if everyone is ok with that
+15:59 <@fmccor> Fine with me.
+15:59 <@wltjr> no problem here
+15:59 <@NeddySeagoon> motion to close bug 26707 Proposal to fund bugday incentives/rewards
+15:59 <@tgall_foo> second
+15:59 <@NeddySeagoon> vote
+15:59 <@fmccor> Yes.
+15:59 <@tsunam> yes
+15:59 <@wltjr> yeah
+16:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Carried
+16:00 <@tgall_foo> yea as well
+16:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Bug 77966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities
+16:00 * tgall_foo was typing minutes at the time ;-)
+16:01 <@tgall_foo> bug 177966 FYI
+16:01 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm not sure what this one means
+16:01 <@tgall_foo> dunno either ... motion to close
+16:01 <@NeddySeagoon> Oops ... copy and past from the agenda
+16:01 <@tsunam> basically, we need to define clearly what is outside of the core gentoo (every company)
+16:01 <@tsunam> and that no matter how much money they give, they can't push the foundation to do anything
+16:01 <@tsunam> needs to be clearly defined
+16:01 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Won't the bylaws do that ?
+16:02 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: cause vendors are going to read our bylaws *nods*
+16:02 <@tgall_foo> yeah seems like bylaws thing to at least keep our eyes on
+16:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets keep this bug open until the bylaws are adopted
+16:02 <@wltjr> yeah and it seems per wolf's comments on -nfp he would like to see the foundation be more of a liason between the community and development and steer that
+16:03 <@wltjr> which will have to do with vendors and sponsors, as they are community members, in a sense and might want to influence or steer, etc
+16:03 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I think that's how the Foundation was envisoned
+16:03 * wltjr has no opposition, but the foundation is a long way from taking care of itself much less leading anything or being a liason
+16:03 <@NeddySeagoon> wolf said as much
+16:03 <@wltjr> I think we can lay down that foundation, but I am not sure if we will get to see the reality
+16:03 <@wltjr> by the time we sell it to members, the council, etc, likely be next year :(
+16:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion to keep this bug running until the bylaws are adopted
+16:04 <@wltjr> good for gentoo, which is bigger than us lowly board members
+16:04 <@wltjr> second
+16:04 <@NeddySeagoon> vote
+16:04 <@wltjr> yeah
+16:04 <@fmccor> yes
+16:04 <@tgall_foo> ney
+16:04 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, ?
+16:05 <@tgall_foo> I'd personally still close that one out .... but no worries ...
+16:05 * wltjr hmm, get's spicey, grabs some popcorn
+16:05 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ?
+16:05 <@tsunam> abstain
+16:06 <@tsunam> this one really doesn't matter to me, I think we need to change the wording on the page but others feel the "bylaws" are enough so
+16:06 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, I see the closure of the bug as some words pointing to a section in the approved bylaws
+16:06 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, sure that works as well
+16:06 <@NeddySeagoon> Carried - just
+16:06 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: then do you change your vote? if not motion doesn't pass
+16:06 <@tgall_foo> personally I'm not sure we can have a set of bylaws that wouldn't say something to that effect based on donations .. again .. no matter!
+16:06 <@tsunam> I don't think that's a valid approach but meh
+16:07 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr 3 out of 5 is ok
+16:07 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, well Neddy hasn't voted yet
+16:07 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I didn't think we had that, unless you voted yeah, guess that's implied by motion
+16:07 * NeddySeagoon votes Aye
+16:07 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: yeah that's what I thought, my count was 2-1-1
+16:07 <@tgall_foo> there ya go .. passes
+16:07 <@wltjr> ok better :)
+16:08 * wltjr checks his anal retentiveness, yep all there :)
+16:08 <@NeddySeagoon> Next bug 205965 [Tracker] Legal Issues It was still empty last time I looked
+16:09 <@wltjr> I say defer on the last one, I have no interest in talking about licenses atm
+16:09 <@tgall_foo> yup still is now
+16:09 <@tgall_foo> so nothing to do there :-)
+16:09 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, yeah I agree
+16:09 <@wltjr> pretty low priority, so likley can put back a few meetings
+16:09 <@fmccor> wltjr, nor do I
+16:09 <@wltjr> unless member base protests :)
+16:09 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, is should be quite quick - everything else has moved to ver 3
+16:10 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: ok
+16:10 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: kernel hasn't :-P
+16:10 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: is that something we should decide or members vote on?
+16:10 < jmbsvicetto> Is this to move the ebuilds licenses from GPL-2 to GPL-3?
+16:10 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Gentoo docs have
+16:10 <@tgall_foo> ah .. reading the bug more fully yeah .. seems like a no brainer to approve
+16:11 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, Only the Foundation pages on g.o
+16:11 <@NeddySeagoon> Bug 212021 Consider switching to Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0
+16:11 * wltjr agrees with NeddySeagoon and tgall_foo after re-reading bug, been a bit, my bad
+16:11 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion to move to Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0 as documents are revised
+16:11 <@tgall_foo> tho ... one bug a boo
+16:11 <@tgall_foo> "I'd like to mention that unlike the ebuilds in the tree, there's no "copyright
+16:11 <@tgall_foo> assignment" in the documentation team. That could mean that we can't simply
+16:11 <@tgall_foo> "relicense" our work under a new version of this license."
+16:12 <@tgall_foo> that's a problem
+16:12 <@NeddySeagoon> Foundation Docs, that is
+16:12 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: Ah, ok.
+16:12 <@tsunam> tgall_foo: very good point
+16:12 <@tgall_foo> tho reading Neddy's motion ... that works for me
+16:12 <@NeddySeagoon> I don't want to just update the docs for a licence bump
+16:13 <@wltjr> seconded
+16:13 <@NeddySeagoon> before we vote ...
+16:13 <@NeddySeagoon> I don't think there is copyright assignment anywhere in Gentoo
+16:14 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, for dev status there is
+16:14 <@tsunam> the best we can do on this is to suggest moving forward to use 3.0 as its not copyright assigned, it belongs to creator
+16:14 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, you signed something ?
+16:14 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, yup ... and so should you have as part of your dev status
+16:14 < jmbsvicetto> tgall_foo: It used to be a long, *looong* time ago
+16:14 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, Nope
+16:14 <@tsunam> tgall_foo: many have not
+16:15 <@tsunam> tgall_foo: hasn't in quite a while, it was during the Gentoo INC days when daniel ran
+16:15 <@tgall_foo> well .. all it prevents is ownership of files
+16:15 <@NeddySeagoon> Is my motion vaild ?
+16:15 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: it can only be a "suggestion"
+16:15 <@tgall_foo> yup tsunam is right
+16:15 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: if voted for
+16:15 <@NeddySeagoon> ley me reword it then ...
+16:16 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion to suggest a move to Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0 as Foundation documents are revised
+16:16 < jmbsvicetto> tgall_foo: That also doesn'
+16:16 <@NeddySeagoon> suggest to authors ...
+16:17 < jmbsvicetto> tgall_foo: There's also the legal issue for non-US citizens as that copyright assignment isn't valid in many countries including (most?) of the EU countries
+16:17 <@tgall_foo> jmbsvicetto, that's how the FSF does things and it works quite well
+16:17 <@tgall_foo> jmbsvicetto, the actual document agreement might have had problems ... but that's a different issue
+16:17 <@NeddySeagoon> I think the wider copyright issues are outside the scope of this discssion
+16:17 < jmbsvicetto> tgall_foo: One example that has been raised before is Germany as you can't waive your copyright there
+16:18 * tgall_foo takes it outside
+16:18 <@wltjr> if it needs discussion I say defer, if we all know our stance then vote, approaching 10 mins on this item
+16:18 * tgall_foo calls the question
+16:18 <@NeddySeagoon> It seems to need more discussion - lets defer
+16:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion to defer bug 212021
+16:19 <@wltjr> seconded
+16:19 <@tsunam> aye
+16:19 <@NeddySeagoon> vote
+16:19 <@wltjr> yeah
+16:19 <@fmccor> yes
+16:19 <@tgall_foo> yes
+16:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Carried
+16:20 < jmbsvicetto> My point was only about ebuilds, not documents and CC-SA
+16:20 <@NeddySeagoon> 6 Any other business
+16:20 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, ?
+16:20 <@fmccor> Yes
+16:20 <@wltjr> yes, if we can speak on it or if there is any info, tsunam can you speak, I think you know topic
+16:20 <@wltjr> tsunam: mostly a question to you anyway
+16:20 <@fmccor> Small point --- could we set a goal for finishing off the bylaws?
+16:20 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm going round everone by name
+16:21 <@wltjr> fmccor: 2 months max?
+16:21 <@tsunam> wltjr: GNi Support
+16:21 <@wltjr> tsunam: plz if there is any info
+16:21 <@fmccor> wltjr, That works
+16:21 <@tgall_foo> yes 2 months max ... 1 month should be reasonable
+16:21 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, when will you circulate your email ?
+16:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I will try to finish going through the by laws
+16:21 <@tsunam> Current status: Servers are not being pulled at this time. I've been in talks with both Philip and Derek (CEO and CTO) respectively
+16:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I almost think we might start an email/thread per section
+16:21 <@fmccor> tgall_foo, I agree, but other things keep intruding. :)
+16:21 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, when will ??
+16:22 <@tsunam> however, there will be some changes to what we have access to and quite potentially some payment monthly we will need to make to GNi
+16:22 <@tgall_foo> fmccor: it's a goal ... not a deadline :-D
+16:22 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I hope today, let's say end of day tomorrow, have a bunch of home improvement to do, got stalled last night, damn can of mud was dry and solid :(
+16:22 <@tsunam> something like bandwidth+power or such
+16:22 * wltjr has no problem with Gentoo paying for infra services if funds are available and/or we have revnue
+16:22 <@fmccor> tgall_foo, This is an instance where it would be better if we could all get together in a locked room until it was done.
+16:23 <@wltjr> fmccor: yeah I was really thinking IRC
+16:23 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, do you know approx costs and how it fits our ability to pay
+16:23 <@wltjr> what if we do a by laws day?
+16:23 <@wltjr> we set aside one day to all sit and hash out the by laws
+16:23 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: no costs at this point have been discussed
+16:23 <@tgall_foo> fmccor: yes it would ...
+16:23 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, thanks
+16:23 <@tsunam> It was also brought up that GNi felt and I concur that 501(c)3 was a very important aspect to support
+16:23 <@wltjr> I think it's more ideal to both Gentoo and our Sponsors to meet them half way if possible
+16:24 <@wltjr> I have no problem with 501c3, we just need to look into what happens if we do something wrong in the first 5 years, and lose status
+16:24 <@wltjr> I don't see that being an issue, but we should still be aware before going forward
+16:24 <@fmccor> wltjr, by laws day is fine if we can find one.
+16:24 <@tgall_foo> ok .. so for something actionable there ... seems like a by-laws day ?
+16:24 <@tsunam> I have a contact that has done 501(c)3's and has an organization as such that I"m in contact with
+16:24 <@wltjr> fmccor: yeah and time zones don't help, really it shouldn't be more than 3-4 hours or so
+16:25 < jmbsvicetto> open to the members or just for the trustees? (bylaws day)
+16:25 <@NeddySeagoon> it can't be a day ... we are spread over 8 timezones
+16:25 <@wltjr> tsunam: yes but it's not up to us
+16:25 <@wltjr> tsunam: we are relying on 4 other boards
+16:25 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, it'll just seem like a day
+16:25 <@tsunam> wltjr: 4 other boards?
+16:25 <@tgall_foo> first week in may ?
+16:25 <@wltjr> tsunam: 5 years, 1 + 4
+16:25 <@NeddySeagoon> Does everyone have VoIP ? Can we do it voice ? it will be faster
+16:25 <@tsunam> wltjr: if its setup properly, they should have no ability to violate it in that time
+16:25 <@wltjr> tsunam: I don't want to see our hard work go down the drain and status revoked to a private charity, without possibility of seeking 501c3 again
+16:25 <@fmccor> No.
+16:26 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I could, but no mic generally unless I'm on the desktop
+16:26 <@wltjr> tsunam: yes, lots of ways to violate even if on accident
+16:26 * fmccor does not have VoIP
+16:26 <@NeddySeagoon> Scratch VoIP
+16:26 <@wltjr> tsunam: again I don't see it being a huge issue, but there is the potential liability, and not sure about you, I want to make sure my efforts last
+16:26 <@tsunam> wltjr: you have a serious issue of trust :(. Ultimately you have to rely and believe that those who take over will do the right thing
+16:27 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you might still be a trustee in 5 years
+16:27 <@wltjr> tsunam: I think it's proven on avg humans don't do the right thing, without some rules :)
+16:27 <@tsunam> wltjr: saying we're not doing something because of what someone in the future might do...is sabatoge of the entire organization
+16:27 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: sure, but there are lots of circumstances
+16:27 <@wltjr> ok let me put it this way
+16:27 <@fmccor> Yes, in general there is little turn over in a Corporate Board.
+16:27 <@wltjr> if it was easy to become a 501c3, the IRS wouldn't require a 5 year probation or what ever period :)
+16:27 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, All we can do is lay a solid foundation for others to build on
+16:28 <@wltjr> I agree, but again there is a reason the IRS waits 5 years before granting status forever
+16:28 <@tgall_foo> the linux kernel would have serious problems if it didn't have a network for trust ....
+16:28 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: At this point are you sure there'll be gentoo distro in 5 years?
+16:28 <@tgall_foo> anyway ... is there something actionable here ?
+16:28 <@tsunam> currently no
+16:28 <@wltjr> those reasons might be some what out of our control, and I just want to know what happens with then $hit hits the fan
+16:28 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: if we do things right yes
+16:28 <@tgall_foo> ok ... so any other business ?
+16:29 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: if we do things right, Gentoo might be able to start funding and carrying itself, and really moving foward, securing it's own future
+16:29 * tgall_foo needs to get going
+16:29 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I like your email thread per section ... it will save bandwidth. Any reason not to to it on -nfp ?
+16:29 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: not at all, just might get more input and lengthy process, but section by section will keep each email lenght managable :)
+16:29 <@NeddySeagoon> yep
+16:30 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, AoB ?
+16:30 <@wltjr> ok, so we need to wrap up, and give some time for open floor
+16:30 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, AoB ?
+16:30 * fmccor has nothing else.
+16:30 <@wltjr> tsunam: so anything immediate from GNi? are we ok between now and next meeting or will we need to pay them at all
+16:30 <@tgall_foo> AoB ?
+16:30 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no just to wrap up where things are at wrt to GNi
+16:30 <@tgall_foo> rather AoB == ??
+16:30 <@tsunam> wltjr: currently nothing
+16:31 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, Any other Business ... the current agenda item :)
+16:31 < jmbsvicetto> tsunam: Any other Business
+16:31 <@tsunam> wltjr: I will need to talk with derek some more about the options and get an update
+16:31 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, AoB == none for me
+16:31 <@wltjr> tsunam: ok, so we can get an update next month, and hopefully not invoices/bills in the mean time
+16:31 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, AoB ?
+16:31 <@tsunam> jmbsvicetto: I knew what AOB is =)
+16:31 * fmccor didn't. :(
+16:31 <@wltjr> tsunam: cool, no worries, not trying to pester or bug, just wanting to know if we need to act sooner than later
+16:31 <@tsunam> wltjr: I know
+16:31 <@NeddySeagoon> Nothing from me either
+16:31 <@wltjr> finally got in touch with a buddy from Sonic.net yesterday, so will lobby them soon
+16:32 <@NeddySeagoon> 7. Open floor
+16:32 <@wltjr> tsunam: you got my emial about being in CA next week/weekend 29th-4th
+16:32 <@tsunam> wltjr: aye
+16:32 <@tsunam> wltjr: not sure, south bay area folk don't tend to like to head up to SFO
+16:33 <@NeddySeagoon> SFO ?
+16:33 <@wltjr> tsunam: yeah, wasn't sure if the indian place was worth a meet
+16:33 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: san francisco
+16:33 <@tgall_foo> say .. did anyone still have in their buffer or grab a log? I alas didn't remember to start saving until 14:33 local time
+16:33 <@tgall_foo> I was taking minutes tho so things are at least recorded
+16:33 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, Well, my logger is here
+16:34 <@NeddySeagoon> and its all in my back buffer
+16:34 < jmbsvicetto> tsunam: sorry
+16:34 < jmbsvicetto> tsunam: meant tgall_foo
+16:34 <@tsunam> jmbsvicetto: lol no worries =)
+16:34 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, groovy .. could you send it to me via email then?
+16:34 <@tgall_foo> I'll push the minutes out this evening
+16:34 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, ok
+16:34 <@NeddySeagoon> Anything for open floor ?
+16:34 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, thanks!
+16:34 <@wltjr> Philantrop: did you have something?
+16:34 < Philantrop> May I just ask why non-devs should be members of the Foundation? I didn't really find a reason on -nfp@.
+16:35 < Philantrop> wltjr: ^^^
+16:35 <@tgall_foo> Philantrop, what is your definiton of a non-dev ?
+16:35 <@wltjr> Philantrop: just a default, I think we will have provisions for them to remove themselves
+16:35 < Philantrop> tgall_foo: Anyone who's not in our LDAP.
+16:35 <@NeddySeagoon> As the bylaws are being proposed, there is no provision for non devs to be menbers
+16:35 <@tsunam> Philantrop: I beleive the main reason for that ability is that people are looking for those who have specialization in running business's/nfp's and wuld do better then developers
+16:35 <@wltjr> Philantrop: just a convienience, since they are contributing, part of the community, etc
+16:35 <@tgall_foo> Philantrop, so what would be their interesting gentoo then ?
+16:36 <@wltjr> Philantrop: are you talking users, or like gentoo staff?
+16:36 < Philantrop> wltjr: Ex-devs.
+16:36 <@NeddySeagoon> Longer term, it might be a good idea as they have wider interests than the dev pool
+16:36 <@wltjr> then again my thoughts are kinda the same for all
+16:36 <@tsunam> wltjr: gentoo staff are in ldap
+16:36 <@wltjr> Philantrop: well door should be open to them, but keep in mind, application is not acceptance
+16:36 <@tgall_foo> Philantrop, well if they remove the "ex" ....
+16:36 <@wltjr> atm acceptance is determined by a vote of the members
+16:37 <@wltjr> I would like to see that expanded a bit, or requirements reduced, so all members don't have to vote anytime someone wants in
+16:37 <@wltjr> trustees/officers should have some say or influence on acceptance, maybe
+16:37 <@tgall_foo> I dunno .. I have a bit of a problem with people being involved with an organization and not willing to be a member ... IE if you want to be a foundation member and volunteer the time .. you ought to be able to maintain dev status
+16:37 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: There's nothing preventing non-devs from becoming officers
+16:37 <@wltjr> Philantrop: does that address your concern?
+16:37 <@NeddySeagoon> lets get the bylaws adopted first ... they can be amended later
+16:37 < Philantrop> tgall_foo: Exactly my point.
+16:38 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I think Wulf's (Philantrop) question is about members
+16:38 <@wltjr> I think if a status is removed for some negative reason, that would be grounds for declination of application
+16:38 <@wltjr> but any former dev, is the same as someone not affiliated with gentoo
+16:38 < Philantrop> More specifically: I don't really feel comfortable with someone who has been a dev some years ago to still influence the GF.
+16:38 <@wltjr> they can come back as a user, or foundation member, I guess, shouldn't be anything wrong with that
+16:39 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, it will be an interesting email thread
+16:39 <@wltjr> Philantrop: their influence will be very minor, just a voice as one of an unlimited number of members
+16:39 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, but they have a vote
+16:39 <@wltjr> Philantrop: no way for a single person really to have much influence, unless they have followers that are members :)
+16:39 <@wltjr> but action requires 1/3 of members
+16:39 < Philantrop> wltjr: You're the one with the trust issue ;-) - what if they team up?
+16:39 <@fmccor> Philantrop, I guess I disagree. It's quite possible for someone to have an interest in Gentoo but not wish to be a developer.
+16:39 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, it's like selling your shares in a company .. and coming back to the stock holder's meeting and voting
+16:39 <@NeddySeagoon> Philantrop, Why, its not technical influence ?
+16:40 <@wltjr> Philantrop: I believe the power section gives the board/officers power to overrule, if not we can see about adding that
+16:40 <@wltjr> yes, but this is volunteer
+16:40 <@wltjr> I might volunteer to the Red Cross today, then take a few years off, and then go on a mission
+16:40 <@wltjr> what's wrong with that?
+16:40 < Philantrop> NeddySeagoon: Well, you seem to agree with wolf's mail on -nfp@ that you want to "drive the distribution". That would be more than just keeping Gentoo's assets which I think the Foundation should be limited ot.
+16:40 < Philantrop> *to
+16:40 < jmbsvicetto> I think we could gain a lot from moving in the direction of the Mozilla Foundation or the Fedora/OpenSuSE involvement of users
+16:41 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, nothing ... and during that time if you go ex-dev ... then come back ... just get rid of the ex... that's all I sask
+16:41 <@tgall_foo> s/sask/ask/
+16:41 < Philantrop> tgall_foo: Exactly.
+16:41 <@wltjr> sure, but when I come back i might come back in a non-dev form
+16:41 <@NeddySeagoon> Philantrop, I read wolfs email to mean "facilitate by opening doors"
+16:41 <@tgall_foo> and we have a very liberal definition of developer here
+16:41 <@wltjr> maybe I am older wiser, went from being a programmer, to managing groups of them
+16:41 <@fmccor> Yes, it will be an interesting thread. I strongly disagree with Foundation members must be developers.
+16:42 <@wltjr> who knows, but wrt to foundation and members, all we are talking is ideas
+16:42 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, heh cat herding
+16:42 < Philantrop> wltjr: Then you probably don't have enough interest in Gentoo. It's really simple to become any kind of dev.
+16:42 <@wltjr> Philantrop: there is more to Gentoo than just technical aspects
+16:42 <@fmccor> Developers are actually pretty ill suited for the role (in my opinion only).
+16:42 <@wltjr> Philantrop: what about education?
+16:42 <@wltjr> that's part of our mission, what if I want to teach people Gentoo
+16:42 < Philantrop> wltjr: Docs, forums staff, etc. - all devs.
+16:42 <@tgall_foo> fmccor: right .. but remember ... we have a very liberal definition of developer here
+16:42 <@NeddySeagoon> Philantrop, its not so simple to become staff. Staff are often invited
+16:43 <@wltjr> Philantrop: what about users or teachers who teach Gentoo in school
+16:43 <@wltjr> Philantrop: or sys admins who use our stuff daily
+16:43 < Philantrop> wltjr: Why should they have *any* influence on the Gentoo Foundation?
+16:43 <@wltjr> Philantrop: chicken and egg
+16:43 <@tgall_foo> there might be a new "class" of developer who doesn't write code or docs or work on infra .. but still does something else
+16:43 <@wltjr> Philantrop: no users, no distro, even if there are devs, no sponsors, no infra
+16:43 <@wltjr> Philantrop: think ebay, do they care about sellers, no
+16:43 <@fmccor> tgall_foo, That would be Foundation member, no?
+16:43 <@tgall_foo> but before that happens .. people are going to have to be convinced it's a class of dev that makes sense
+16:44 <@wltjr> Philantrop: no buyers, no sellers
+16:44 <@NeddySeagoon> Philantrop, Looking back over the time since the Foundation was started, there is little evidence that developers want to run it
+16:44 < Philantrop> NeddySeagoon: Not to run it but to influence it.
+16:44 <@wltjr> Philantrop: and there is a ton of non-developer work to be done
+16:44 <@fmccor> Foundation is almost all non-developer.
+16:44 < Philantrop> NeddySeagoon: Especially if you want to do more than just safe-keeping the assets.
+16:44 <@wltjr> Philantrop: it's more than that
+16:45 <@wltjr> Philantrop: what do you consider things with sponors? an assest?
+16:45 < Philantrop> wltjr: It shouldn't be, IMHO.
+16:45 < Philantrop> wltjr: Of course.
+16:45 <@wltjr> Philantrop: and what about when there are no assests?
+16:45 <@wltjr> as in funds?
+16:45 < Philantrop> wltjr: Then we don't need a Foundation.
+16:45 < Philantrop> wltjr: Assets != funds.
+16:45 <@wltjr> Philantrop: a foundation can also generate such things, not just be accountable
+16:46 <@NeddySeagoon> Philantrop, Well, they didn't want to influence it either... We have 28 nicks in the channel, 5 trustees, my logger leaves 22 nicks who might by trying to infulence us
+16:46 <@wltjr> Philantrop: point is we have not done fund raising, etc
+16:46 < Philantrop> wltjr: Think of the Gentoo trademark in the USA.
+16:46 <@wltjr> Philantrop: that's one aspect, but not all of it, or mission is beyond just assets and trade mark enforcement
+16:47 <@tgall_foo> well sounds like this is a deeper discussion as part of our membership discussion for the bylaws
+16:47 < Philantrop> NeddySeagoon: Give them some time... :-)
+16:47 <@wltjr> and that's as things are now, if we can do all those things and move beyond to what like wolf and others have spoken of
+16:47 <@fmccor> Philantrop, I think we all have a view of where the Foundation should be headed, and I suspect yours and mine are different. :)
+16:47 < Philantrop> fmccor: Most likely, yes. :-)
+16:47 <@NeddySeagoon> Philantrop, So far its been yourself and jmbsvicetto
+16:47 <@wltjr> Philantrop: bottom line to have real influence over the foundation, you need to be on the board or an officer, members have limited powers to a point
+16:47 <@tgall_foo> if there isn't anything else to be raised ... I suspect a motion to adjourn woudl be good so the membership .... discussion to go somewhere where there are drinks involved
+16:48 < Philantrop> NeddySeagoon: Yes, but just wait till you have details on GNi... :->
+16:48 <@wltjr> wrt to NM, members are pretty much powerless :) and for most all other legal matters, and it seems board and trustees can overrule members, so :)
+16:48 <@NeddySeagoon> Philantrop, I don't think we will resolve anyting here. The bylaws will be on -nfp you can comment on the emails there
+16:48 <@NeddySeagoon> Can we close the meeting please
+16:48 < Philantrop> NeddySeagoon: Yes.
+16:48 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: agrees we should adjorn meeting
+16:48 <@fmccor> wltjr, everything comes down to the board.
+16:48 <@tgall_foo> motion to adjourn
+16:48 <@fmccor> second
+16:48 <@NeddySeagoon> seconded
+16:48 <@wltjr> fmccor: which is why we are on it
+16:48 <@NeddySeagoon> Vote
+16:48 <@wltjr> yeah
+16:48 <@tgall_foo> yes
+16:49 <@NeddySeagoon> yes
+16:49 <@fmccor> yes
+16:49 <@tsunam> yes
+16:49 <@NeddySeagoon> Carried
+16:49 <@NeddySeagoon> Date of next meeting
+16:49 <@NeddySeagoon> ??
+16:49 <@tgall_foo> thanks everyone! (2 weeks aka May 4th 19:00 UTC)
+16:49 <@NeddySeagoon> For the bylaws ?
+16:50 <@NeddySeagoon> Meeting Closed
diff --git a/2008/051108.txt b/2008/051108.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..15e1e97
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/051108.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,474 @@
+--- Log opened Sun May 11 00:00:53 2008
+14:23 -!- mode/#gentoo-trustees [+o NeddySeagoon] by ChanServ
+14:25 -!- NeddySeagoon changed the topic of #gentoo-trustees to: Join our public mailing list gentoo-nfp at lists dot gentoo dot org | Next meeting, here, Sunday 11 May at 1900 UTC. (Postponed from 4 May) | Agenda Review and Adopt the Bylaws http://xrl.us/bjk6h | Logs/Minutes of past meetings http://tinyurl.com/2qcb4o | Read for todays meeting ---> http://dev.gentoo.org/~neddyseagoon/docs/FoundationBylawsProposed_2.xml
+14:31 * fmccor signs in
+14:41 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, read the link http://dev.gentoo.org/~neddyseagoon/docs/FoundationBylawsProposed_2.xml
+14:43 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Doing it now
+14:45 <@NeddySeagoon> 'taco says we can have a foundation-announce list
+14:47 <@wltjr> draft looks good so far to where we are at, I would like to change the annual meeting, to monthly, with one of them being the annual, I will see about providing some wording there per discussion on -nfp
+14:48 <@wltjr> also wrt to legal requirements for by laws, let's not worry to much there, since that stuff might be state specific, much less outdated per the type of entity we are
+14:49 <@wltjr> I will be around for meeting
+14:52 <@fmccor> Great
+14:52 <@fmccor> I'd also like to activate the domain name at some point.
+14:52 <@wltjr> the foundation one?
+14:53 <@fmccor> Yes.
+14:53 <@tsunam> morning
+14:53 <@tsunam> well almost afternoon
+14:53 <@fmccor> I think we can use it to make voting much easier --- give each member a limited account there for purposes of voting.
+14:54 <@fmccor> tsunam, You need to catch up with the rest of us.
+14:54 <@fmccor> :)
+14:54 <@wltjr> tsunam: was about to say even in the west, almost noon :)
+14:55 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I have I think 3 minor comments on your posting, so I'm easy today. :)
+14:56 <@fmccor> wltjr, If we can find a reasonable host for gentoo-foundation.org, I think we can make good use of it for some Foundation-specific matters, such as voting (as I mentioned).
+14:57 <@tsunam> is there a reason not to talk to infra about it?
+14:58 <@wltjr> fmccor: I don't have a problem there, but maybe a webapp could do the same thing?
+14:58 <@fmccor> None at all, if we have some reasonable use for it to talk with them about. I think we do, and should discuss it next week.
+14:58 <@wltjr> fmccor: not sure we need real accounts, unless we want to vote using existing system and means
+14:58 <@fmccor> wltjr, I defer to you on that.
+14:59 <@fmccor> wltjr, That was how I was thinking on voting --- take advantage of what we already have in place.
+14:59 <@wltjr> fmccor: I am fine with it either way, just not sure about other uses, server just for voting
+14:59 <@wltjr> do we plan to have more votting taking place? if so then surely
+15:00 <@wltjr> s/votting/voting :)
+15:00 <@fmccor> Who knows? Possibly, I suppose.
+15:00 < jmbsvicetto> Afternoon
+15:00 <@wltjr> fmccor: if infra is cool with it, I am fine no worries
+15:00 <@wltjr> fmccor: we likely should take things to member votes more often for major stuff
+15:01 <@fmccor> wltjr, It's a good topic for next meeting or so.
+15:01 <@wltjr> pathetic hardware and a tiny pipe should be plenty for our needs :)
+15:01 <@wltjr> fmccor: surely
+15:01 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, its AOB for next meeting
+15:01 * fmccor did indeed forget all about mothers' day, and is thus limited to about 90 minutes today.
+15:02 <@tsunam> k
+15:02 <@wltjr> yeah I skipped out on family gathering :(
+15:02 <@NeddySeagoon> What about the idea kicking around to form a Returning Officers project ... note that persons counting votes are suppoed to b Foundation officers
+15:02 <@fmccor> If we're quick, can you still make it.
+15:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Anyway ... role call
+15:02 * fmccor waves
+15:03 * tsunam salutes
+15:03 <@wltjr> fmccor: nah they started ~2hrs ago, food already cooked and ate, might have been able to attend and rush back
+15:03 * wltjr is present
+15:03 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, ??
+15:03 <@fmccor> :( Sorry. My fault.
+15:03 <@wltjr> no worries, I didn't catch it till I had an inite :)
+15:03 <@wltjr> s/inite/invite
+15:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Ok, lets start ... wltjr you want to take this meeting, since you have done most of the work up to now ?
+15:05 <@NeddySeagoon> Illl take that as a no then
+15:05 <@wltjr> ok
+15:05 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ?
+15:05 <@wltjr> I think the propoposed replacement for section 3.4 notice is good, old and delete can go away
+15:06 <@wltjr> I need to put forth a re-write for 3.2, Annual Meeting -> Monthly Meetings
+15:06 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: Don't you want that for Board of Trustees meetings?
+15:06 <@wltjr> the second part/paragraph of 3.5 seems a little excessive
+15:07 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm editing as we go ... can we start at the beginnning ?
+15:07 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: no, I think the stuff wrt to meetings in Article 5.x should go away
+15:07 <@wltjr> it's redundant IMHO
+15:08 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: So you want all meetings to be "members ' meetings"?
+15:08 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: sure, just nothing before 3.2/3.4 I see needing to be modified, looks like those were already updated
+15:08 <@tsunam> wltjr: a lot of legal documentation is redundant for reasons
+15:08 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: meetings are meetings, I don't think we should differentiate
+15:08 <@tsunam> that just don't make sense to normal people
+15:08 <@wltjr> tsunam: this isn't really a legal document, this is a document describing how we operate
+15:08 <@fmccor> tsunam, Not really. It's redundant because of bad writing skills.
+15:09 <@NeddySeagoon> it appears the trustees, members and trustees+members can meet separately and such meetings are address separtely
+15:09 <@wltjr> also because of re-using others by laws and etc
+15:09 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: when will we ever have a meeting of the members?
+15:09 <@wltjr> electronically I don't see that being possible, or manageable
+15:09 <@wltjr> therefore I see all meetings being board or officers, with members in attendance if they wish
+15:09 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: The difference is that if you have meetings of the Board, you don't need to go to such lengths about notices and warning users
+15:09 <@wltjr> open floor at end of meeting
+15:09 <@fmccor> At least once every 13 months. It would beon IRC.
+15:09 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, well, that would be up the the members, if they wanted to exclude the trustees :)
+15:10 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: any meeting should have same notice requirements within reason
+15:10 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I don't see our members being that organized in that regard
+15:10 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: The existing proposal used different notice requirements
+15:10 <@wltjr> that's more something that occurs for like share holder meetings etc
+15:10 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, The AGM *must* be a meeting including the members
+15:11 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: agm?
+15:11 <@NeddySeagoon> Annual General Meeting - The Annual Meeting
+15:11 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: that is a stupid concept IMHO
+15:11 <@wltjr> we have an annual election, not meeting
+15:12 <@wltjr> the annual meeting should be a changing of guard meeting, done over 2 meetings, not one
+15:12 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: Anyway, I think I had this dicussion with you before. I've been a bit distracted with other issues, but I don't recall reading any email about the proposed powers for the Trustees and what actions require a majority vote of the members
+15:12 <@wltjr> I really don't like us turing an election into a meeting, they are very different
+15:12 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: no where near those articles
+15:12 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, its one meeting adjourned for voting
+15:12 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: one of the points of that meeting is to present the annual report
+15:12 <@tsunam> jmbsvicetto: *nods*
+15:12 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: so a role call is taken?
+15:13 <@wltjr> meetings implies public voting and open record as to whom voted what
+15:13 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: Not really
+15:13 <@wltjr> like right now if we vote on something, who votes what is visible, and we can discuss that, thus meeting
+15:13 <@wltjr> an election is totally different, there is very little if any discussion
+15:13 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, nope - meetings do not imply show of hands votes
+15:13 <@wltjr> members aren't trying to discuss and change other members votes per say, as it might be during a meeting where we weight out options and vote based on that
+15:13 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: meetings imply role call, who attended
+15:14 <@wltjr> which role call is not the same as those qualified to vote
+15:14 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we have that from the log
+15:14 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: It might not be a valid comparison to the american system, but polictical parties here used to hold a weekend meeting (a congress) during which they have a secret vote to elect a new leader for the party
+15:14 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: technically we do that as well, the popular vote is not the one that determines the end result
+15:15 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I present that as an example of what our "meeting" looks (would look) like
+15:15 <@wltjr> yeah I gues congress meets and votes in laws etc, but there is a record
+15:15 <@wltjr> meeting implies minutes
+15:15 <@fmccor> wltjr, If it's on IRC, we can see who's present.
+15:15 <@wltjr> but we don't vote on irc
+15:15 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we still have to have an annual meeting to present reports ... elect trustees
+15:15 <@wltjr> we do it over 2 months
+15:15 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: annually we need 2 changing of the guard meetings
+15:15 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, 2 months <> 2 meetings#
+15:15 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: We move the voting to our "mail booths" ;)
+15:16 <@fmccor> Meeting is more of a legal formality, where the results are formally presented (as I see it, anyway).
+15:16 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats still TBD. Trustees could hold office for 2 years
+15:16 <@wltjr> it's really not that big of a deal to me, but I would prefer us be clear in our election process and etc
+15:16 <@wltjr> so is that members must show up and nominate people at the meeting then?
+15:16 <@fmccor> I wouldn't think so.
+15:16 <@wltjr> well it's a meeting right? being adjourned
+15:16 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, that works, provided no discussion is needed prior to any votes
+15:17 <@wltjr> so how would a member go about nominating someone'?
+15:17 <@wltjr> if this is being tied to a meeting process, members need to show up at one meeting, nominate people which end up on ballot, meeting adjourned vote takes place etc
+15:17 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we use the same process as now but adjoourn the meeting for voting
+15:17 <@wltjr> but this has nothing to do with what I envision the two changing of guard meetings to be
+15:18 <@wltjr> the first of the two, would be existing trustees concluding any open business, nothing to do with election
+15:18 <@wltjr> with the new board sitting in, so this meeting takes place after elections
+15:18 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, those would be floor nominations to a recommended slate (normally)?
+15:18 <@wltjr> then the next meeting, the new board takes over, old board sits in to help, advise, etc
+15:19 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: You can call a meeting to start process and then have a discussion (thread) in the -nfp ml where members can nominate candidates for X days and move the voting to the day to be determined
+15:19 <@wltjr> ok, but those meetings will preceed the two I am speaking of
+15:19 <@NeddySeagoon> we can accept last minute nominations from the floor. Nominations close when the meeting is adjournded for the vote
+15:19 <@wltjr> the changing of guard meetings only take place once a new board has been elected
+15:19 <@tsunam> we've always handled the elections the same way...
+15:20 <@wltjr> it can stand as is, just would like it know I dislike our election process tied to meetings
+15:20 <@tsunam> open up elections on -core -dev for nominations
+15:20 <@wltjr> the council doesn't do that to my knowledge
+15:20 <@tsunam> see who accepts then hold voting
+15:20 <@fmccor> tsunam, Yes, and it works pretty well. I'd hate to get hung up on this point.
+15:20 <@tsunam> that seems to be the best system for us imo
+15:20 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Noted ... but it seems to work
+15:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: it's never been tied to a meeting
+15:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: when did a meeting take place before this past election?
+15:21 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Yet ... and it still need not be
+15:21 <@fmccor> wltjr, I view the meeting as just a formal event.
+15:21 <@wltjr> I think we need an article on elections
+15:21 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: Not officialy, but it has always been presented as one
+15:21 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, who was going to meet with whom ? It was discussed on -core
+15:22 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Agreed ...
+15:22 <@tsunam> btw I'm limited to 90 minutes myself
+15:22 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion to detial the election process in the bylaws
+15:22 <@fmccor> second
+15:22 <@wltjr> Section 3.6 can be dropped, N/A since we aren't doing individual notices
+15:23 <@NeddySeagoon> Vote ^^
+15:23 * NeddySeagoon aye
+15:23 <@fmccor> Yes.
+15:23 <@tsunam> yes
+15:23 * wltjr yeah
+15:23 <@NeddySeagoon> carried
+15:24 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr can we drop 3.6 ... is there a legal requirement#
+15:24 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: let's not worry about legal requirements atm
+15:24 <@NeddySeagoon> 'taco says we can have a mailing list for annoucements
+15:24 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I don't see how 3.6 applies to us.
+15:24 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: if we move states, they are likely to change, also I don't think allot of the law applies to an organization like ours. I don't see anyone contesting or coming after us over it, so pretty much moot
+15:25 <@wltjr> Section 3.7 is quite confusing and long
+15:25 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: That could be seen as a "public notice" on a billboard
+15:25 <@fmccor> wltjr, I don't even know what is says. :)
+15:25 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the point is, do we need (under law) to send notices to members or is an ad in a paper enough ?
+15:26 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: for the most part it's up to us
+15:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I agree we can drop 3.6. then
+15:26 <@fmccor> Notice could read as simply as "send an email to foundation-announce@..."
+15:27 <@NeddySeagoon> yep - if we had it ...
+15:27 <@wltjr> 3.7 seems to have something to do with the record of members, and fixing a date there?
+15:27 <@fmccor> take taco up on his offer, then we do.
+15:28 <@wltjr> I think we can drop 3.7 it seems to be related in some ways to 3.6
+15:28 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I'll raise a bug
+15:28 <@wltjr> basically talking about determining which members are entitled to a waiver/notice
+15:29 <@NeddySeagoon> 3.7 says you can set a date by which your records will be up to date. New members since that date don't get to vote at the next meeting
+15:29 <@fmccor> wltjr, 3.7 seems to say that we fix times for current membership list, sort of like voter registration.
+15:29 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, exactly
+15:30 <@fmccor> It can be one sentence, however.
+15:30 <@wltjr> yeah this 3 sections is kinda ridiculous, and lots of repetative confusing statements
+15:30 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, write it please
+15:32 <@wltjr> that one is a bitch
+15:33 <@wltjr> maybe we can drop b and c and keep just A?
+15:33 <@wltjr> b seems NM specific
+15:33 <@fmccor> Me, I'd say "Any member of the Foundation at the start of a voting period may vote."
+15:33 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, whats a 'voting period' ?
+15:34 <@NeddySeagoon> I we can do without a record date - because its all electonic .. we can drop it
+15:34 <@fmccor> Oh, like we announce now that voting for Council will open on xxx and close 4 weeks later.
+15:34 <@NeddySeagoon> OK - thats the recording date then
+15:35 <@NeddySeagoon> open on xxx
+15:35 <@fmccor> Yes.
+15:35 <@NeddySeagoon> so we do do it
+15:35 <@fmccor> I think that's all we need.
+15:36 <@NeddySeagoon> somebody write some words and emailthem to -nfp please
+15:36 <@NeddySeagoon> e.g. members as of the date of poll opening are entitled to vode.
+15:36 <@wltjr> http://rafb.net/p/5UeB8j85.html
+15:36 <@NeddySeagoon> vote*
+15:37 <@wltjr> but really I dislike this section as meetings of members, I think it should be foundation meetings, we really don't have meetings of members
+15:37 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, works for me
+15:37 <@wltjr> likely need to add a line that the record date is defaulted to the date of poll opening, unless stated otherwise
+15:38 <@NeddySeagoon> Thats going to become all of 3.7 ?
+15:39 <@fmccor> Works for me, too, although I don't think we'll be voting at meetings --- I prefer your "poll opening". You could say "meeting or opening of the polls" I suppose.
+15:40 <@tsunam> now here's a silly question who's going to rewrite said sections...
+15:40 <@NeddySeagoon> well, poll, may not be at a meeting
+15:40 <@fmccor> Right.
+15:40 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, I'm doing it as we go ... based on the words here
+15:40 <@tsunam> k
+15:41 <@tsunam> got 2 people with 50 minutes left
+15:41 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats all of 3.7 ? A, B, C go ?
+15:41 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, we won't finish today
+15:42 <@wltjr> b seems NM specific and first part reads as the first part of a, almost same wording in first sentences
+15:43 <@fmccor> wltjr, I think it's lifted from someone else's bylaws --- these proposed bylaws were intended for Deleware originally.
+15:43 <@wltjr> c just seems like additional stipulations that if we aren't setting a record date, way in advance of polling etc, really doesn't apply I don't see us setting a record date > 60 days etc, so not sure we need provisions for such
+15:43 <@NeddySeagoon> entitled to consent to corporate action ... seems to be covered by 'poll'
+15:43 <@wltjr> fmccor: well b mentions New Mexico in a couple places
+15:44 <@fmccor> Because NeddySeagoon changed it. :)
+15:44 <@wltjr> ah
+15:44 <@wltjr> fmccor: well some of this does almost read exactly like the nm docs
+15:44 <@fmccor> It's likely boilreplate.
+15:44 <@fmccor> ^lre^ler
+15:45 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, some of it appears to be lifted from http://www.conwaygreene.com/nmsu/lpext.dll/nmsa2007dec/99b/14f30/150fb?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0#JD_Ch53Art8
+15:45 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, wltjr I'd strike 3.7 A,B,C --- I think the replacement is what we want
+15:46 <@fmccor> No need for bylaws to include statutes.
+15:47 <@NeddySeagoon> yeah The record date shall be the date of poll opening, unless stated otherwise. covers c)
+15:47 <@NeddySeagoon> done
+15:48 <@wltjr> do we have addresses and phone #'s to members? 3.8 seems to require that?
+15:48 <@tsunam> heck no
+15:48 <@wltjr> I think name and email is suffice?
+15:48 <@tsunam> we don't even have a full list of members
+15:48 <@wltjr> :)
+15:49 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, we do - jmbsvicetto provided it
+15:49 <@tsunam> when...I never saw one?
+15:49 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: just names and emails right? any other info
+15:49 <@NeddySeagoon> well, the list used at the last election
+15:49 <@fmccor> Perhaps also gpg key like we have on ldap
+15:49 <@tsunam> ah
+15:49 <@wltjr> fmccor: ok, I like that one
+15:49 <@fmccor> tsunam, He sent it to everyone.
+15:50 <@fmccor> wltjr, Give jmbsvicetto credit, not me. He reminded me of it.
+15:50 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, I can dig it out and fwd it if you want
+15:50 <@wltjr> surely jmbsvicetto did an excellent job
+15:50 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: no need
+15:50 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+15:50 <@wltjr> howeer per 3.8 producing the list is a requirement of the trustees not election officials
+15:51 <@wltjr> with the last bit saying if we fail do produce that, we can't run
+15:52 <@NeddySeagoon> The officer or agent having charge of the membership ... is a Foundation offical. We need to appoint one, or start an elections project, whos memebrs are Foundation offcials
+15:53 <@wltjr> here is my re-write for 3.8 http://rafb.net/p/WfIZU393.html
+15:53 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm for an elections project ... running the election is non trivial and trustees should not do it
+15:54 <@wltjr> also shouldn't record keeping like that fall under secretarial duties?
+15:54 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes and election project should also apply for council elections
+15:54 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, at least ten (10) days before each meeting of members, ? every month ?
+15:54 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yes
+15:55 <@NeddySeagoon> and yes
+15:55 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well again that's why I think this section should be foundation meetings, not meetings of members, because only thing that involves members, is elections and votes brought to them
+15:55 <@fmccor> We need to keep it current anyway --- that's a legal requirement.
+15:56 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but since we aren't separating elections/voting from regular meetings, I think we should keep it
+15:56 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yes ... if its posted on a web page ... its not a lot of work to maintain, if its done regularly
+15:56 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+15:56 <@wltjr> hopefully changes between meetings in membership is minimal
+15:56 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Needs to be on file with our agent for public inspection.
+15:56 <@wltjr> fmccor: really I don't think we need to go that far do we?
+15:57 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, well devs become members on the 1st anaversary of the join date
+15:57 <@wltjr> ah well yes, needs to be available to public, but not sure we need to have it with RA
+15:57 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Oh, so it does.
+15:57 <@fmccor> wltjr, As I recall, NM wants it.
+15:57 <@wltjr> fmccor: if this stuff is all publically available online, I think we are covered
+15:57 <@wltjr> fmccor: and if we leave NM :)
+15:58 <@fmccor> Nope. Should just be a matter of sending our agent an email every month or asking the list to be a reference to the URL.
+15:59 <@wltjr> fmccor: ok, but that might only be a NM requirement not required in other states
+15:59 <@fmccor> wltjr, True.
+15:59 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, do we have to maintain the history - or just current ?
+15:59 <@fmccor> Current, I believe.
+15:59 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+16:00 <@fmccor> Basically, it's there in case anyone wants to go look at it.
+16:00 <@wltjr> getting close on time, let's get through this article, all sections and conclude
+16:00 <@wltjr> first sentence of 3.9 mentions proxies, which we are dropping
+16:00 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+16:00 <@NeddySeagoon> whats the decision on 3.8 ?
+16:00 <@NeddySeagoon> I missed that then
+16:01 <@wltjr> did any changes need to be made to what I posted in pastebin?
+16:01 <@wltjr> http://rafb.net/p/WfIZU393.html
+16:01 <@fmccor> Looks fine to me.
+16:02 <@NeddySeagoon> 3.9 Except as otherwise required by law, by the Certificate of Incorporation or by these Bylaws, one-third (1/3) of the
+16:02 <@NeddySeagoon> members entitled to vote,shall constitute a quorum at a meeting of members.
+16:02 <@wltjr> 3.9 is good, just need to remove the stuff about proxy's and classes, one sec will pastebin a re-write
+16:02 <@wltjr> unless we need to change the 1/3 etc
+16:03 <@NeddySeagoon> done ^^^
+16:03 <@fmccor> 1/3 seems about right
+16:04 <@fmccor> It's pretty standard.
+16:04 <@NeddySeagoon> thats from NM law
+16:04 <@wltjr> http://rafb.net/p/wbdier21.html
+16:04 <@wltjr> just removed bits about proxy and classes of members
+16:05 <@fmccor> Works for me.
+16:05 <@wltjr> on to 3.10 unless there is more on 3.9
+16:05 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+16:05 <@wltjr> 3.10 is fine, except we need to add electronically to this statement/sentence
+16:05 <@wltjr> Members shall vote in person
+16:06 <@wltjr> electronically
+16:06 <@fmccor> You beat me to it.
+16:06 <@wltjr> wtf? All votes by the membership shall be cast in the manner specified by the Secretary.
+16:06 <@wltjr> more like specified by our election system or process, not the secretary
+16:07 <@fmccor> I'd delete it. I think we've already covered how we vote.
+16:07 <@fmccor> Right.
+16:07 <@wltjr> yeah rest is good
+16:07 <@wltjr> 3.11 is going away, I don't see a need, much less a reliable way to track proxies
+16:08 <@wltjr> and 3.12, should members have meetings on their own? will that ever happen?
+16:08 <@NeddySeagoon> its there for now so it doesn't mess up cross references
+16:08 <@fmccor> wltjr, We can't stop it.
+16:08 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: sure, once all reference to 3.11 or proxies is gone, can be dropped
+16:08 <@NeddySeagoon> it means renumbering stuff
+16:09 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: that's likely to happen either way
+16:09 <@NeddySeagoon> ... but yeah, do it once at the end
+16:09 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: likely will add some sections or articles at some point
+16:09 <@NeddySeagoon> 3.12 reflects NM law
+16:09 <@wltjr> yeah and mentions writing
+16:09 <@fmccor> I'd leave it, even though I can't see it happening.
+16:10 <@wltjr> I don't like it
+16:10 <@wltjr> first sentence alone
+16:10 <@wltjr> Any action required to be taken or which may be taken at any annual or special meeting of members of the foundation, may be taken without a meeting, without prior notice and without a vote
+16:10 <@NeddySeagoon> it governs who it has to happen, if it ever does
+16:10 <@fmccor> Here, I think "writing" == "gpg-signed email"
+16:11 <@wltjr> fmccor: yes but how can a list of gpg-signed emails be produced?
+16:11 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, do we need to spell that out ? Its all over ?
+16:11 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, No. That was my point, poorly made.
+16:11 <@wltjr> this basically says members can take actions on their own, so long as they have a list of all members, and present that to the foundation 60 days in advance
+16:12 <@NeddySeagoon> Its a valid point - writing is always gpg signed mail in the bylaws
+16:12 <@fmccor> They have the list, because it's public.
+16:13 <@wltjr> I don't see any changes per say to 3.12, I just would like to see it go away for now, I don't see it being applicable, and almost implies members could take action without the board/officers
+16:13 <@wltjr> which could be a good thing if it's like overturning a sucky board, but that's not what this is implying or stating
+16:13 <@fmccor> Well, they can. It's sort of a rebellion and we can't stop it.
+16:13 <@wltjr> fmccor: we can by exlcuding it in the by laws
+16:13 <@wltjr> or by flat out saying the opposite, they can't meet on their own
+16:14 <@wltjr> after all isn't a trustee or officer still a member of the foundation?
+16:14 <@wltjr> after they no longer hold position, arent' they still members?
+16:14 <@fmccor> Makes no difference to me either way, and in any event, NM (or wherever) law will control.
+16:14 <@fmccor> Yes, they are.
+16:15 <@fmccor> I have no strong views on this one.
+16:15 <@wltjr> at min if we have no direct use, fat, lets trim
+16:15 <@NeddySeagoon> lets leave it in ... its boilerplace
+16:16 <@wltjr> ok, but I am not much of a fan of boilerplate stuff unless there is a just need or reason
+16:16 <@NeddySeagoon> make it easy for members to revolt - legally
+16:16 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: let's just hope this doesn't come back to bite the foundation in the arse
+16:16 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: just the same as I want to limit trustees power etc
+16:17 <@fmccor> This one is so opaque no one can figure out what it says, anyway. We can amend it out if we wish.
+16:17 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, it doesn't matter - the law will previal anyway ... I'm easy on this one
+16:17 <@wltjr> anyway, we can move on to Article 4, or conlude, up to others
+16:17 <@fmccor> wltjr, I have a suggestion for Art. 4
+16:17 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well the law will prevail if the provision is there and used :)
+16:17 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yes
+16:18 <@wltjr> fmccor: shoot
+16:18 <@fmccor> wltjr, Very quickly --- I'd change the "Deleted" on 4.4 -- 4.7 to "Resserved";
+16:18 <@wltjr> ok
+16:18 <@NeddySeagoon> hehe - that was only so cross references were preserved
+16:18 <@fmccor> And in 4.10, the reference to 4.1 should be to 4.3
+16:18 <@wltjr> yeah, it's going to get re-numbered before final draft
+16:19 <@NeddySeagoon> yep
+16:19 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: should see if we can use some sort of markup link there :)
+16:19 <@wltjr> my guidexml foo is pretty weak atm, but seems like there should be a way
+16:19 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I think we are going to want to say a lot more about membership, but I think it's likely to be medium-term, and might need a session dedicated to it.
+16:19 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yeah, I will, I don't want to do cross references by hand
+16:20 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, agreed
+16:20 <@NeddySeagoon> we have 10 min before we lose two people
+16:20 <@wltjr> yeah we need a process for how we accept new members, maybe a mebership form/application
+16:20 <@fmccor> As it stands, it grandfathers in current members and brings in new members as their developerships ripen.
+16:20 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: likely should conlude things then
+16:20 <@wltjr> fmccor: but what about the community
+16:21 <@wltjr> only devs are members? doesn't seem right
+16:21 <@fmccor> Right.
+16:21 <@wltjr> or vendors, what if someone from Intel or AMD would like to be a member of the foundation, should be some what open, at least the application process
+16:22 <@wltjr> also we need to have a criteria or etc for approval, the current approval is done via member votes or something not feasible or realistic
+16:22 <@fmccor> wltjr, I agree, that's why I floated my comments on Article 4. earlier. But for today's purposes, we are not going to flash that out.
+16:23 <@wltjr> a couple more meetings like this, and we can wrap up the by laws, with a complete and thorough initial review/re-write
+16:23 <@fmccor> wltjr, NeddySeagoon , tsunam So I guess it becomes just a matter of whether we want to take all that up at the next session on this or work through everything and come back to it.
+16:23 * wltjr would like to see special sessions on the by laws till completed
+16:24 <@tsunam> honestly, I'd just like to review the final document
+16:24 <@wltjr> tsunam: ok, you have no input on the various sections?
+16:24 <@tsunam> wltjr: not until I see a final draft no
+16:24 <@tsunam> wltjr: for bylawys I like to look over the full document
+16:25 <@tsunam> you and fmccor and NeddySeagoon seem to like the nitty gritty =)
+16:25 <@tsunam> I do have one other issue that wltjr brough up
+16:25 <@tsunam> before everyone disappears
+16:25 <@wltjr> tsunam: you mean thoroughness?
+16:25 <@fmccor> I think we just want to get this out of the way. :)
+16:25 <@tsunam> hehe
+16:26 <@fmccor> tsunam, quickly please.
+16:26 <@tsunam> basically, do we want to pay the lawyer now or wait until there's a status update from the state
+16:26 <@fmccor> I think we have to pay him.
+16:26 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, whats his payment terms ?
+16:26 <@tsunam> as there was the comment if there'd be more cost if something wasn't right
+16:26 <@wltjr> we should play it like we are in the process of paying him, and hold of a bit till we can see results
+16:26 <@tsunam> there was no term to the remit of payment
+16:26 <@fmccor> Treat it like 50 days.
+16:26 <@wltjr> tsunam: as long as he is not bugging us for payment, delay
+16:26 <@fmccor> ^50^30
+16:27 <@tsunam> sure
+16:27 <@tsunam> I can wait until the end of this month
+16:27 <@wltjr> tsunam: if he asks, tell him we are waiting on results, if he has issue, we can address that from there
+16:27 <@tsunam> wltjr: *nods*
+16:27 <@NeddySeagoon> fine by me
+16:27 <@tsunam> that's all I had
+16:27 <@wltjr> but I think if he asks about payment, and we state that the amount being considerable more than quoted, much less minor mistake in sigs, we would like to be 100% it's correct the first time, no further billing
+16:27 <@tsunam> and with that...I'm out
+16:27 <@wltjr> unless he is cool with eating any mistakes and not charging more :)
+16:28 <@tsunam> wltjr: i would say "doubtful" on that account
+16:28 <@NeddySeagoon> 'bye tsunam
+16:28 <@fmccor> wltjr, That's a joke, right?
+16:28 <@wltjr> fmccor: on him eating charges, yes, attorneys never eat anything
+16:28 <@wltjr> although I did make my last one eat $2.5k in bills I refused to pay :)
+16:28 <@wltjr> after I paid him > $20k
+16:28 <@NeddySeagoon> When do we want to resume ?
+16:29 <@fmccor> We have a regular meeting next week.
+16:29 <@wltjr> asap to get this over with, but when ever works for others, I have no traveling or events in upcomming weeks/month
+16:29 <@NeddySeagoon> I was going to post the updates ... but I've messed up the tags
+16:29 <@fmccor> I'd like to do this weekly otherwise until we get it done.
+16:29 <@wltjr> fmccor: I agree, keeps focus, and shows progress, effort
+16:29 <@NeddySeagoon> week after next then, same time, same place ?
+16:30 <@wltjr> sure, and if we have time during meeting next week, we can address some of it
+16:30 <@fmccor> And it'll get so painful we'll get through it like it or not.
+16:30 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I doubt that
+16:30 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, wltjr yes to both for me.
+16:30 <@wltjr> yes, this is the type of stuff people gather for, lock themselves in a room till completed
+16:30 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yeah
+16:31 <@wltjr> and for the record, I HATE this stuff, it's why I have yet to do it for my company :)
+16:31 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll fix the tags and post what I have ...
+16:31 <@fmccor> wltjr, This is an example of what's wrong with email + IRC --- if we could meet in person, we'd be done in half a day.
+16:31 <@wltjr> fmccor: agreeed, and phone really doesn't help much at all either
+16:31 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, well, I have VoIP
+16:31 <@wltjr> down the road would be really nice if the foundation had $ to pay for gatherings like this
+16:31 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, its a long road for me :)
+16:32 <@NeddySeagoon> unless everyone comes to the Edinburgh Festival
+16:32 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: actually about the same if we meet neutrally like in NY, I think you are like 3k away and so is tsunam
+16:32 <@wltjr> or sunny FL :)
+16:32 <@NeddySeagoon> hehe. It will be only the 3 of us next time
+16:32 <@fmccor> NY & FL work for me --- I can get to both easily by train. :)
+16:32 < astinus> when there's an annual Trustee meeting in Florida
+16:33 < astinus> all of a sudden we won't have trouble finding people to run
+16:33 <@wltjr> astinus: yeah no joke :)
+16:33 <@NeddySeagoon> astinus, yeah :)
+16:33 * fmccor is boycotting US air travel.
+16:33 < astinus> why?
+16:33 <@fmccor> Homeland security nonsense.
+16:34 <@wltjr> it's not to bad, you get used to the anal probes
+16:34 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, heh no toothpaste in your hand luggage
+16:34 <@fmccor> Yeah, and they want to make sure my shoes won't explode.
+16:34 <@wltjr> don't wear shoes
+16:34 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thats been routine in the UK for years
+16:34 <@fmccor> It's all mickey mouse red tape.
+16:35 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, its PR to be seen to be doing something
+16:35 <@fmccor> That's a more polite way to say it, yes.
+16:35 <@wltjr> well I am off to tile a bathroom floor
+16:35 <@NeddySeagoon> In the UK, its got so bad that flying no longer saves time over the train
+16:36 <@fmccor> Anyway, I have to run. We made good progress, I think.
+16:36 <@wltjr> yeah we are moving along, slowly but surely
+16:36 <@NeddySeagoon> that was the easy bit :)
+16:36 < astinus> say that shoes are an affront to your religion
+16:36 < astinus> and you implant explosives in your intestines instead
+16:36 <@wltjr> yeah next two articles get hairy, then after that get a bit easier
+16:36 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, If I had reason to go to NY or to Boston, train is probably faster.
+16:37 <@NeddySeagoon> yeah ... good place to stop
+16:37 <@NeddySeagoon> Let me fix the XML tags
+16:37 * wltjr goes to mix motar
+16:37 <@fmccor> wltjr, If we propose to put Article 4. into final form, please let's all think about it.
+16:38 <@wltjr> fmccor: agreed
+16:38 <@wltjr> s/motar/mortar
+16:38 <@fmccor> But as you all know, it's my particular hot button. In broad terms, I think we probably agree.
+16:38 <@fmccor> And with that, I must run.
+16:39 <@fmccor> Oh, Kill Article 9. What would we do with a Corporate seal, anyway?
+16:52 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor|away, we could have an electronic one ands run a competition for its design ... but I'm with you on that
diff --git a/2008/051808.txt b/2008/051808.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..84c0ded
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/051808.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,724 @@
+15:00 * NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order
+15:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Roll call
+15:00 <@fmccor> Hello
+15:00 <@tsunam> here
+15:00 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, tgall_foo tsunam wltjr
+15:00 <@fmccor> Hello again
+15:01 <@tsunam> got 30 minutes remember
+15:01 < jmbsvicetto> back
+15:01 <@NeddySeagoon> We have a quorum ... lets start
+15:01 <@NeddySeagoon> Intoductions - I think we can skip that
+15:01 <@NeddySeagoon> Foundation Bylaws Status ...
+15:02 <@NeddySeagoon> We are legal again - see the link in topic
+15:02 * wltjr is present
+15:02 <@fmccor> Now all we have to do to stay legal is make sure the annual reports are filed.
+15:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Oops sorry fmccor that was your topic
+15:02 <@fmccor> I just finished it.
+15:03 <@NeddySeagoon> Foundation Bylaws Status - wltjr please say a few words ..
+15:03 <@wltjr> a few words, we are still working on it, I think we are on to the members article, just need to discuss it on -ml, I have been short of time, but don't want that to hold up the process
+15:04 <@tsunam> and I don't want to review until its complete
+15:04 <@wltjr> possibly should revise that section, make sure there is asection/article on amending the bylaws and then can stamp them as official anytime, and make changes afterwards
+15:04 <@NeddySeagoon> we are discussing it here at 19:00 UTC next Saturday - Thats not a formal meeting :)
+15:05 <@fmccor> Er, Sunday?
+15:05 <@fmccor> I don't care, but need to know which ahead of time.
+15:05 <@wltjr> tsunam: that's fine but if you omit taking part in the in depth review, I doubt we will want to revist sections you aren't happy with in depth again afterward
+15:05 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, well spotted - I just wanted to make sure you were awake
+15:05 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: About the meetings, you still need to clarify which powers will be granted to the officers/trustees and which require a foundation vote
+15:05 <@NeddySeagoon> Its in /topic
+15:05 <@wltjr> tsunam: so review in entirity is entirely your choice
+15:05 <@fmccor> barely.
+15:05 <@tsunam> wltjr: duh as far as my choice
+15:05 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: I plan to go through the entire thing, and will before end of term, but I can't devote a ton of time to this
+15:06 <@tsunam> wltjr: as far as Im concerned revising sections is all good, just need to review the full document as well to make sure it all still makes sense
+15:06 <@wltjr> after all I am a dev out of necessity, not want or for fun, so I still have to make time for that, and only have so much for gentoo in general
+15:06 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: imho, the meetings section has a direct dependency on that
+15:06 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: understood
+15:06 <@fmccor> wltjr, Actually, all you need to be is a member of the Foundation.
+15:06 <@wltjr> tsunam: sure, I understand your point of view, I have to stop at times and review it as a whole to speak on any sections, just saying don't want to nit pick it again, just after doing that :)
+15:06 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, feel free to comment on -nfp
+15:07 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: I am still not 100% happy with the meeting section
+15:07 <@NeddySeagoon> The bylaws so far are linked from /topic
+15:07 <@wltjr> but trying to move on, I think the meeting section should cover all meetings, foundation, board, officers, etc, not just members if there is ever a member meeting
+15:08 <@wltjr> fmccor:not sure what that comment refers to about being a member of foudation?
+15:08 <@NeddySeagoon> I think thats enough of a progress update.
+15:08 <@wltjr> really no progress since last meeting on that topic, which was beneficial
+15:08 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Gentoo Foundation Banking your turn
+15:09 <@tsunam> since we're legal I can begin talking to the 3-4 banks I was about what really is an option
+15:09 <@tsunam> and with our ein its not related to any of our tax records
+15:09 <@NeddySeagoon> so nothing stopping progress now ?
+15:09 <@tsunam> i need to talk to grant and see how old the check is...its a possibility that its far too old currently to be deposited and would need to get a new reissue of it
+15:09 <@tsunam> shouldn't be no
+15:09 <@tsunam> minus the check =)
+15:10 <@NeddySeagoon> heh - yeah
+15:10 <@NeddySeagoon> What about our end of year on 30 June do you have to do any special then?
+15:10 <@tsunam> nothing special for my stuff
+15:11 <@NeddySeagoon> Just make up the accounts I suppose ?
+15:11 <@tsunam> I need to get the quarterly reports done by then even if I won't be happy with the total difference between what we really have and what we probably have
+15:11 <@fmccor> Lawyer is sending us specific information about what we have to file and when to keep NM happy.
+15:11 <@wltjr> we likely need to find and retain an accountant
+15:11 <@tsunam> any reason not to send payment to the lawyer anymore :-P
+15:11 <@NeddySeagoon> Then on the 1st July ... its all our problem, since its a new business year
+15:11 <@wltjr> tsunam: no, he did his job, pay him ;)
+15:12 <@fmccor> tsunam, No.
+15:12 <@tsunam> else I'll make the payment this coming week
+15:12 <@NeddySeagoon> No
+15:12 <@tsunam> announcement will go to -nfp like previously done
+15:12 <@fmccor> There will be one more bill, because he did some work in May. It should be small.
+15:12 <@wltjr> unless we want to blame him for typo in tgall name :)
+15:12 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, When do you think we will have a bank ?
+15:12 <@tsunam> before our next election I hope
+15:12 <@tsunam> depends ont the check neddy
+15:12 <@wltjr> we also need to find a new RA ASAP before we incur any further bills from Mr. Chew
+15:13 <@fmccor> wltjr, As I recall, the paperwork itself was fine. (As to names)
+15:13 <@wltjr> I would assume whom ever we retain as a accountain could serve as RA
+15:13 <@wltjr> fmccor: yeah, was just nit picking :) nothing that Mr. Chew did
+15:13 <@NeddySeagoon> Is there a reason to retain two guys ?
+15:14 <@fmccor> wltjr, I'd like to tie all of that to the discussion of where we end up --- i.e., if we want to move states.
+15:14 <@tsunam> nothing in particular no
+15:14 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, makes sense. So a new RA is low priority ?
+15:14 <@fmccor> I'd say for enxt meeting.
+15:14 <@fmccor> ^next^
+15:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: I agree
+15:15 <@fmccor> Meaning for June.
+15:15 <@NeddySeagoon> That soon ... ok, lets move on
+15:15 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: as long as Mr. Chew doesn't have to do anything
+15:15 <@NeddySeagoon> Bugs Assigned to Trustees
+15:15 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, As opposed to before then. July might be better, but not much later.
+15:15 <@wltjr> I will see about drafting something up for the SSL bug if we are to proceed with CA cert
+15:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: no sooner than later, June
+15:16 <@fmccor> wltjr, Matters not to me. :)
+15:16 <@wltjr> we need to find a new RA, I don't want to see any further bills from Mr. Chew, he is not affordable and we are spending others $
+15:16 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats 117837 Funding request: wildcard SSL cert - Awaiting Reincorporation ?
+15:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Since time is short, I would like to move to # 176598 Illegal redistribution of sourcecode from 3gpp.org
+15:17 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yeah I believe so, can't recall offhand
+15:17 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: infra priority
+15:17 <@NeddySeagoon> either its stalled or we need to poke someone
+15:18 <@NeddySeagoon> We need to look after everyones IPR
+15:18 <@NeddySeagoon> does anyone know anything about 176598 ?
+15:19 <@wltjr> no, but quick read says we need to contact some package maintainers and have the modify what they are distributing with the package, as in not mirror, and pull directly from source
+15:19 <@wltjr> s/have the/have them
+15:20 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, its just a comment on the bug to get them to fetch restrict it, if its still being mirrored ?
+15:20 < Philantrop> NeddySeagoon: I mailed upstream about what I wrote in comment 1 but never got a response
+15:20 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: technically SSL bug 108944, but 176598 deps on it, so related
+15:20 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes, comment on bug, be we need to follow up and make sure it takes place, and or take action directly if not
+15:21 <@wltjr> s/be we/but we
+15:21 <@NeddySeagoon> Philantrop, We have to act on the information we have ... if that means taking off the mirrors, thats what we have to see is done
+15:21 <@tsunam> 176598 has already been resolved, lu_zero has said he'll stop it from being mirrored
+15:22 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Thanks - I missed that
+15:22 <@wltjr> tsunam: ok, any reason he didn't close it, was he the only maintainer effected
+15:22 <@NeddySeagoon> 99151 Request for advertisement space and vendor listing - is new, in that I missed it last time. What do we do for this one ?
+15:23 <@wltjr> tsunam: read his comment, but wasn't sure because it wasn't closed
+15:23 <@wltjr> tsunam: I would is not I did
+15:23 <@wltjr> unless 'd is did, not would
+15:23 <@tsunam> easy enough to check
+15:23 <@tsunam> sec
+15:24 < jmbsvicetto> tsunam: I read "I'd stop" and not "I'll stop". I might misunderstood the comment, though
+15:24 <@fmccor> tsunam, It's distributed in a separate package, it seems, which has RESTRICT="mirror"
+15:25 <@wltjr> no mention of bug 176598 in ffmpeg changelog
+15:25 <@tsunam> both amr* have restrict=mirror
+15:25 <@NeddySeagoon> Can it be closed ?
+15:25 <@fmccor> media-libs/amrnb
+15:25 <@tsunam> fmccor: what I looked at
+15:25 <@tsunam> yes it can
+15:25 <@wltjr> would have been nice if they mentioned that and/or the bug in Changelog
+15:25 <@NeddySeagoon> Can we do it ?
+15:26 <@fmccor> Ha!
+15:26 <@wltjr> tsunam: what mplayer ebuild has restrict mirror? I see restrict strip
+15:26 <@NeddySeagoon> 99151 Request for advertisement space and vendor listing - is new, in that I missed it last time. What do we do for this one ?
+15:26 <@tsunam> wltjr: mplayer doesn't need it
+15:27 <@tsunam> wltjr: only amr* does asa that's what is what is in question
+15:27 <@wltjr> tsunam: the bug says is does? I see no restrict on ffmpeg either, what package are we talking about
+15:27 <@tsunam> both ffmpeg and mplayer depend on amr* for amr*
+15:27 <@tsunam> wltjr: fail
+15:27 <@fmccor> They depend on media-libs/amrnb which has the RESTRICT
+15:28 <@tsunam> media-libs/amrnb and amr*
+15:28 <@tsunam> whatever the other amr package is
+15:28 <@tsunam> both those are restricted
+15:28 <@wltjr> tsunam: ok, would be nice if the bug mentioned that
+15:28 <@tsunam> wltjr: just look at the ebuilds :-P
+15:28 <@fmccor> I think they changed it for the bug.
+15:28 <@wltjr> tsunam: now that I am grepping the right ones :)
+15:29 <@fmccor> mplayer ebuild, at least, still mentions the source URL for it, but doesn't use it any more.
+15:30 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, before you go, DONM 15 June ?
+15:30 <@tsunam> donm?
+15:30 <@NeddySeagoon> thats Fathers day on my US calander
+15:30 <@tsunam> k
+15:30 <@NeddySeagoon> Date Of Next Meeting
+15:30 <@tsunam> works for me
+15:31 <@tsunam> I don't have anything going on currently then
+15:31 <@fmccor> Fine for me, too.
+15:31 <@wltjr> um, no more holidays
+15:31 <@NeddySeagoon> everyone else ?
+15:31 <@NeddySeagoon> ok, 15 June it is
+15:31 <@tsunam> lol poor wltjr
+15:31 <@wltjr> that makes it too difficult, as I had to choose over a family gathering last time
+15:31 <@tsunam> wltjr: go to the family meeting :-P
+15:31 <@fmccor> Do it the 22nd then.
+15:31 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, how much time do you have ?
+15:31 <@tsunam> use your phone to ssh in ;)
+15:31 <@wltjr> tsunam: poor you to not have a family gathering of your own not to attend :)
+15:31 <@tsunam> about another 10 minutes
+15:31 <@NeddySeagoon> 22nd is OK too
+15:31 <@wltjr> no, family time is family time
+15:32 <@tsunam> wltjr: I'm 4 hours from the closest family, and instead I have good friends I can get together with so :-P
+15:32 <@wltjr> it's not a big deal, just expect me to be MIA :)
+15:32 <@fmccor> It's silly not to work around schedules when we know a month in advance.
+15:32 <@NeddySeagoon> 22nd then
+15:32 <@tsunam> also fine
+15:32 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ^^
+15:32 <@wltjr> tsunam: well friends can be some what like family, but still aren't blood
+15:32 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yep :)
+15:33 <@NeddySeagoon> DONM agreed as 22 Jun 1900 UTC here
+15:33 <@tsunam> wltjr: blood isn't always friends and you still don't have to like your family :-P
+15:33 <@tsunam> but anyways...
+15:33 <@wltjr> fmccor: my family is tight, the things we do for each other, even my life long friends would not do for me, or vice versa
+15:33 <@wltjr> er, tsunam :)
+15:33 <@NeddySeagoon> 99151 Request for advertisement space and vendor listing <--- agenda itme
+15:33 <@NeddySeagoon> whats that about
+15:33 <@wltjr> tsunam: one of my uncles lended another > $100k to save his business and family, you got a friend who would do that?
+15:34 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, agenda please
+15:34 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: that's soooo old
+15:34 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yeah bit its not closed ... just close it ?
+15:34 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but this is where we have no policy for sponsors, donors, advertisers
+15:35 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well I am not sure the original offer is even on the table any more, almost 3 years later
+15:35 <@tsunam> considering the age of the bug, it should be closed ;(
+15:35 <@NeddySeagoon> then we want to use that bug to trigger policy discussions etc ?
+15:35 <@tsunam> due to said age
+15:35 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: that'd be for the best
+15:35 <@wltjr> close bug, file another that we need to have policies for such
+15:35 <@tsunam> sponsor/donations should go the trustee's as SOP
+15:35 <@wltjr> like what qualifies a sponsor for getting an ad on g.o, or just metion on sponsor page, etc
+15:36 <@NeddySeagoon> ok we close the bug and add an agenda item for sponsors policy
+15:36 <@tsunam> *nods*
+15:36 <@NeddySeagoon> sdp ?
+15:36 <@wltjr> works fo rme
+15:36 <@fmccor> Fair enough.
+15:36 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: standard operating procedure
+15:36 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll do that after the meeting
+15:37 <@NeddySeagoon> 126707 Proposal to fund bugday incentives/rewards wasn't someone going to close that ?
+15:37 <@tsunam> yes
+15:37 <@fmccor> Yes.
+15:37 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll do that too while I'm in bugsie
+15:37 <@tsunam> k
+15:37 <@NeddySeagoon> 77966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities
+15:37 <@tsunam> now I'm out, have a good afternoon all, and I'll get done what I talked about
+15:38 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, enjoy
+15:38 <@NeddySeagoon> We continue to be quorate - withdrawal of a member does not affect the quorum
+15:39 <@NeddySeagoon> 77966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities ?
+15:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: already worked and closed the bugs in question so far, just FYI
+15:39 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thanks
+15:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: np
+15:39 <@NeddySeagoon> IS 77966 tied into Sponsors discussions ?
+15:40 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: is that the correct bug #?
+15:40 <@fmccor> No, 177966
+15:40 <@wltjr> :)
+15:40 <@NeddySeagoon> I messed up the copy and paste
+15:41 <@wltjr> np, I think we can close as later or etc, this is exactly what we will be addressing in the member section of the bylaws
+15:41 <@fmccor> To be honest, I don't even know what the bug means.
+15:41 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ok, we keep it open until bylaws are approved
+15:41 <@wltjr> or leave open till we revise that section, I think they want disclosure of how gentoo is effected by outside influence
+15:41 <@NeddySeagoon> 205965 [Tracker] Legal Issues - still empty
+15:42 <@NeddySeagoon> 212021 Consider switching to Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0 - copyright mess. In essence, we cant do this
+15:42 <@wltjr> unless we are filing other bugs for like bank account, tax/end of year reporting/filing, etc, then there is no point to it being open
+15:42 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I would just close 205965, till we have something to track, and we can open a new tracker bug :)
+15:43 <@wltjr> doing so now, unless others feel different
+15:43 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we should not have bugs for routine management activity
+15:43 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I agree, so closing :)
+15:43 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+15:43 <@wltjr> Looks like there was a dep bug, but it's resolved
+15:43 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, you are very quiet
+15:44 <@fmccor> I thought we did 212021, maybe not.
+15:44 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, That happens sometimes. :)
+15:44 <@wltjr> we talked about it for sure at a past meeting, but wasn't sure we decided upon it
+15:44 <@NeddySeagoon> We did it last month and it all got very difficult - we got bogged down
+15:44 <@wltjr> have to check minutes, but I think we left it for another meeting
+15:45 <@NeddySeagoon> We don't hold copyright therefore cant relicence
+15:46 <@wltjr> ok, but should it be used for any new stuff?
+15:46 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: Wasn't that CC-SA 3.0 bug about gentoo documentation?
+15:46 <@fmccor> I'd say move to using the new license on new documents, at least.
+15:46 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, it was about trustees pages
+15:46 <@wltjr> yeah, if we can't relicense old stuff, fine, any new stuff must be CC-SA 3.0
+15:46 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, agreed
+15:47 < jmbsvicetto> fmccor: Seems a good idea
+15:47 <@wltjr> shall I comment as such? but then what other action do we need to take to close bug?
+15:47 <@NeddySeagoon> OK, we will close the bug on that basis
+15:47 <@wltjr> I doubt stating all new docs should use CC-SA 3.0 in a bug will have any effect :)
+15:47 < jmbsvicetto> fmccor: One could also ask authors of older docs if they would be willing to relicense it as CC-SA 3.0
+15:47 <@fmccor> True.
+15:48 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, you have to find *all* the contributors
+15:48 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well we should comment, but not close till we update any documents that mention what license it should go under, some place more visible than closed bug
+15:48 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: You could set it as policy - like gentoo ebuilds are GPL-2
+15:48 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: I meant for one doc at a time
+15:48 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, that works for me
+15:48 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: yeah but where is that stated? in a doc somewhere right?
+15:48 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I think that's somewhere in the mission / philosophy or trustees page
+15:48 <@fmccor> wltjr, It's in most of our documents that they are under CC ...
+15:49 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: ok, will comment that we can't relicense, all new stuff will be CC-SA 3.0, but bug won't be closed till documentation/policies are updated to reflect that
+15:49 <@fmccor> jmbsvicetto, Yes, it is.
+15:49 <@wltjr> well if it'
+15:49 <@wltjr> if it's not stated, we should state it somewhere, this might be another followed, but undocumented policy, which I hate
+15:49 <@fmccor> It's documented somewhere.
+15:49 <@fmccor> Just don't recall where.
+15:49 <@wltjr> ok cool, then once updated, bug can be closed
+15:50 <@wltjr> no worries, we can find out via bug, and others help there
+15:50 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, comment on the bug, and we will find somewhere in our docs to make it clear
+15:50 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/contract.xml - under the "Gentoo is and will remain Free Software"
+15:50 <@fmccor> I've seen it, perhaps in the developer documentation someplace.
+15:50 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks jmbsvicetto
+15:51 <@NeddySeagoon> * 217511 The Gentoo Store is Out of Date
+15:51 <@fmccor> Creative Commons - Attribution / Share Alike version 2 (or later, at our discretion).
+15:51 <@fmccor> We're covered.
+15:52 <@NeddySeagoon> I would like to appoint some officers to run the Gentoo store and expand it to outlets in the major economic zones where GEntoo has a following
+15:52 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we likely need to do something different wrt to the store, for sure wrt to release media
+15:52 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: this one likely needs to be put back a meeting or two
+15:52 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I would like to see us have a meeting in July or August maybe entirely devoted to funding the foundation
+15:52 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, agreed - I'm just stirring the pot a little
+15:52 <@wltjr> oh crap, we let tsunam go to early, GNi status?
+15:53 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: sure, I just think we need to do something drastically different
+15:53 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I have no problem with a single topic session as long as the prep is done beforehand
+15:53 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am not opposed to having others run the store, but FYI, I would like to see the board and officers split off
+15:54 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: if when that took place, the store could easily fall under a duty of the officers
+15:54 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, tsunam no longer works there. I do know its stablised though
+15:54 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: interesting
+15:54 <@wltjr> I am really concerned about our sponsors other than OSUOSL, and like Arizona State
+15:54 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the board and officers split is allowed, even encouraged in the bylaws
+15:55 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I think it's necessary
+15:55 <@wltjr> I would like to see an increasing size/number long term board, with a fixed # of limited term officers
+15:55 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think its an excellent long term aim but we are like a new startup at the moment
+15:56 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yep so much to do, so little time and man power, but we will get it done, maybe change the world in the process :)
+15:56 <@NeddySeagoon> Think Apple and just Steve and Steve
+15:56 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I agree.
+15:56 <@wltjr> yep and what happend to Apple with no Steve :)
+15:56 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I mean in the pre APPLE ][ days
+15:56 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: revist store bug in future meeting
+15:57 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: ah, same page :)
+15:57 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, agreed
+15:57 <@fmccor> I don't think we're in a position to go looking for officers besides ourselves just yet.
+15:57 <@wltjr> fmccor: I agree, definitely not till we have defined roles and duties for them
+15:57 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I think we are pretty close for well defined projects
+15:57 <@wltjr> which we should walk in those shoes first, before seeking others to fill
+15:58 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we would have to direct/manage officers
+15:58 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: that's the point of a board, oversite :)
+15:58 <@NeddySeagoon> anyway, that needs bylaws
+15:58 <@wltjr> checks and balances
+15:58 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes
+15:58 <@NeddySeagoon> OK, that brings us to Any other business
+15:59 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, ?? do you have Any other business for the meeting ?
+15:59 <@fmccor> Not necessarily for this one.
+15:59 <@wltjr> should we briefly discuss current problem with council?
+15:59 <@fmccor> I do want to talk about ways of using our domain name
+15:59 <@NeddySeagoon> can't you just say No ?
+16:00 <@wltjr> I would like to file a request or have a meeting with them wrt to CoC, and if they feel that really should fall under the council to deal with
+16:00 <@fmccor> I'm telegraphing.
+16:00 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, well, get it out in the open ... start it now
+16:00 <@wltjr> also i am not sure devrel should answer to the council on non-technical matters
+16:00 <@fmccor> We spoke about it briefly earlier. I think we can use it to help with voting and such.
+16:00 <@wltjr> if it's a technical dispute brought to devrel, then council, otherwise social, trustees
+16:01 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: That is a change of policy
+16:01 <@wltjr> fmccor: I think it's good for long term, like what BSD has going on, but not sure of any immediate uses
+16:01 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Not until the present issue is resolved. That *has* to be done under the existing rules as council choose to interpret them
+16:01 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: Not that I don't agree with it. Just pointing out that it requires a change in policy
+16:02 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: bylaws are our core operating policy
+16:02 <@wltjr> there is to much lack of structure wrt to Gentoo
+16:02 <@fmccor> wltjr, devrel referees some ebuild "turf" disputes, and I think that's appropriate. Normal path would be escalate to QA or Council.
+16:02 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: agreed
+16:02 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, When the dust has settled, and we know who to talk to
+16:02 <@wltjr> fmccor: that's why I feel devrel should make the call who they escalate the matter to
+16:02 <@wltjr> most stuff ends up on the councils back because there was no where else to take things
+16:02 <@fmccor> wltjr, Actually, we do.
+16:03 <@fmccor> wltjr, Well, I do at least.
+16:03 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I would think the "escalation" is usually started by the affected parties, not devrel
+16:03 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, you make it sound like devrel is very disjoint
+16:03 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: this problem, CoC came from the last council, it's taking out the current council, so I think it does need to be prioritized, or a third council will be dealing with CoC
+16:04 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, When we are working correctly, almost everything should go to a mediator (ombudsman) whose job it is to fix it.
+16:04 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Its something for after the next council election, whenever that is.
+16:04 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: ok, so what happens in the next 2-3 months while a new council is being elected?
+16:04 <@wltjr> we are about to go down a really stupid path, that will effect Gentoo
+16:05 <@wltjr> no council meetings for 2-3 months? wtf
+16:05 <@fmccor> wltjr, It can take no more than a month, as per policy.
+16:05 <@wltjr> is anyone really thinking about what they are calling for?
+16:05 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Probably nothing. but we can't wade in. Everyone will just unite against us.
+16:05 <@wltjr> fmccor: impossible, our election process requires at min 2 months
+16:05 <@wltjr> exactly where are policies don't meet reality
+16:05 <@fmccor> wltjr, No, we can compress it.
+16:05 <@fmccor> I think we did trustees in one month.
+16:05 <@wltjr> fmccor: we did for the trustees, it can't be compressed much more wihtout contest
+16:06 <@wltjr> fmccor: nope 2, and we didn't take over till 3rd
+16:06 <@NeddySeagoon> It can be done in a month - after council make up their minds
+16:06 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: how? who will run?
+16:06 <@wltjr> you have to have a period of nominations
+16:06 <@fmccor> 2 weeks for nominations, to for voting, something like that.
+16:06 <@wltjr> this is not practical by any means
+16:06 <@NeddySeagoon> 2 weeks nominations, 2 weeks vote
+16:06 <@wltjr> ok, so we miss at least 1 council meeting for what?
+16:06 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: It took 1 month
+16:06 <@wltjr> why are we throwing away a month?
+16:07 <@wltjr> it's a min 2 months, because one month will have no council meeting, the second, if there is a new council, will be getting their bearings and dealing with what ever left over mess
+16:07 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, You should be able to take the management out for a month with no ill effects whatsoever
+16:07 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I also don't see anything in the policy forbidding the council from having a meeting until it's replaced
+16:07 <@wltjr> which their first task will likely be GLEP 39 revisal, then CoC
+16:07 <@wltjr> all that does what technically for Gentoo?
+16:07 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, that depends who gets elected ... or even if there are elections now
+16:08 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: this is not management, this is Gentoo's heart and sole, you want to rip that out for a month
+16:08 <@wltjr> the council is captain of the ship, they are the leader, we must have one at all times
+16:08 <@wltjr> this entire situation is very stupid, we are about to take drastic action over a very minor offence
+16:08 <@fmccor> wltjr, Actually, Council has very little effect on us.
+16:09 <@wltjr> some might argue this is the best most effective council we have had in years, so yes let's mess that up ASAP
+16:09 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I have made my personal opinion clear on -project
+16:09 <@fmccor> This Council has spent a lot of time on PMS, and some time talking about CoC.
+16:09 <@wltjr> fmccor: if that's true it's because they are wasting time on CoC stuff
+16:09 <@wltjr> fmccor: but EAPI/PMS stuff effects all
+16:09 <@wltjr> matters the council should be working on are global technical issues, leading the distro forward
+16:09 <@wltjr> I can't see how that would not effect all
+16:09 <@fmccor> Not much, day to day.
+16:10 <@wltjr> fmccor: we say that, but we have never gone down this path
+16:10 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, they should be but in practice, they are only technical arbiters
+16:10 <@wltjr> we have no clue what the outcome will be, or the mess it will create in the mean time
+16:10 <@wltjr> I am not one to follow such half baked ideas, and IMHO GLEP 39 is totall horrible
+16:10 <@wltjr> it's mostly opinions, it started as a very unoffical doc, and seems was voted on as such, and still remains such today
+16:10 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: It might be horrible, but it was put in place
+16:11 <@fmccor> And it was a global decision. :)
+16:11 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: that GLEP created the council, it put the council in place, and gave them 100% control over all global mattrers
+16:11 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: It was subject to a global vote. So it certainly doesn't have less "strength" than a council elected by general vote
+16:11 <@wltjr> which includes their own fate
+16:11 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we can offer help *after* council have made their election/no election decision
+16:11 <@wltjr> was there a council before GLEP 39?
+16:11 <@wltjr> what gives the council the power they have? it's all the same document
+16:11 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we need to step in above the council
+16:11 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I have an opinion about this and I'll be posting it to the -project ml
+16:12 <@wltjr> this is a clear case where we have left the rulling body to determine it's own fate
+16:12 <@wltjr> show me in GLEP 39 where the council doesn't have power to decided on global descision, including ones that effect them?
+16:12 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I don't agree. I think that's left for the dev community
+16:12 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, We do not have that authority today. Trustees and Council were created equal with different terms of reference
+16:12 <@wltjr> again GLEP 39 created the council, all that voted on it in a global vote, gave up their global powers to the council
+16:13 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: who says we don't have that power?
+16:13 <@fmccor> Well, no.
+16:13 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: what document states that? the foundation over sees all
+16:13 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: My opinion is that *any* decision to change Gentoo's metastructure will always require a global vote
+16:13 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: but that is not stated policy
+16:13 <@fmccor> jmbsvicetto, Yes.
+16:13 <@wltjr> policies can't be assumed
+16:13 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I will need to trawl some very old emails
+16:13 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: That's how it has always been conducted
+16:14 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: there has never been a functioning foundation
+16:14 <@wltjr> so yes, let's continue on with lack of structure because there has never been one
+16:14 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: As I see it, that's changing from the current policy or view of council being the last buck and the Foundation being a mere holder of IP and assets and move to a view of foundation being the heart of gentoo and delegating techincal matters to council.
+16:14 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, but the devs gave a lot of authority to council/trustees
+16:14 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: true
+16:14 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: this is more inline with Daniels thought process when the foundation was created, instead of what it's become since
+16:14 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: But in my view, they never gave them "absolute power" as some have been arguing about
+16:14 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: they did, in GLEP 39, what does section B state?
+16:15 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: it's as clear as day
+16:15 <@wltjr> #
+16:15 <@wltjr> Global issues will be decided by an elected Gentoo council.
+16:15 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: That's what I plan to address on my mail to project
+16:15 <@fmccor> jmbsvicetto, Most definitely not. The intent of the policy is to put Council and devrel on a pretty tight rein.
+16:15 <@wltjr> a global vote gave the council that global power
+16:15 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, in the interests of wrapping this up, do you have a motion to propose ?
+16:15 <@wltjr> so now you want to strip the council of that power, and go against a policy that was globally voted in
+16:15 <@wltjr> now who is not following their own policies?
+16:16 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes, that we contact the council, and see bout taking over the CoC stuff regardless of what else transpires
+16:16 <@wltjr> there is nothing in GLEP 39 that has stripped the current council of their power and duties
+16:16 <@wltjr> the current council members are still seen as such, and still have power to make global decisions
+16:17 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, when ?
+16:17 <@wltjr> thus we should not waste any time in contacting them, which we maybe should have a month or two back
+16:17 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: ASAP, I guess a joint meeting between council and foundation
+16:17 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I agree with you. Until we have elections and a new council, the current one keeps the power
+16:18 <@fmccor> wltjr, I'm not sure we are in much better position right now for CoC than Council is.
+16:18 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: which their power is global, and nothing states they can't act retroactively
+16:18 <@wltjr> fmccor: it's not technical, let's not bog them down with it. granted we aren't much better off as stated
+16:18 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: What I disagree with you is that I think the power to change Gentoo's metastructure remains in the hands of the dev community and was not transfered to council or trustees
+16:18 <@wltjr> fmccor: in the interest of what's best for Gentoo, we should off the load from the technical lead
+16:18 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I cannot support that as its written.
+16:19 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: any vote of that nature is purely a courtesy, unless you can find a document requiring it
+16:19 <@fmccor> I think that no matter how you go after CoC, you are going to get Proctors in some sort or other, so I suppose you are talking about where they "live"
+16:19 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no problem, so long as my voice is heard
+16:20 <@wltjr> because I do see this coming back on Gentoo in some what shape or form, and not in a good way
+16:20 <@fmccor> wltjr, I think you are correct in what you are asking for, but I'd like to think it through all the way before forcing it.
+16:20 <@wltjr> and if things like this effect the project, all our foundational efforts go right out the window
+16:20 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Any restructuring can only start *after* a council decision. If you were to change ASAP to after the decision in the election, then I'm for it
+16:21 <@fmccor> I'll go along with that.
+16:21 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: In the case of the CoC, I don't think it's an actual structure change
+16:21 <@NeddySeagoon> Let me try
+16:21 <@wltjr> there is to much misconseption here
+16:21 <@wltjr> the foundation is the head of gentoo, above it all, the council is just the technical lead, the only time the council has authority over the foundation is on technical matters
+16:22 <@wltjr> the council can't overrule the foundation, only on technical matters
+16:22 <@wltjr> the foundation existed before the council, keep that in mind
+16:22 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: And I see no problem for the current council to decide to hand that off to the Foundation. I do believe it should have been under the Foundation all along
+16:22 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion ... that this meeting agrees to approach and work with council in any restructiong of Gentoo that may be required as a result of recent GLEP 39 issues
+16:22 <@wltjr> Daniel Robbins had a vision, which never came true, for the Gentoo Foundation
+16:22 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: I support that view. But you should be aware that's not what most devs around here think
+16:22 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think thats true
+16:22 <@wltjr> sad he isn't willing to see that come to life, but after years of it failing, I can understand his unwillingness
+16:23 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: because they joined a entity with a failed structure, and became used to and reliant on the only entity that showed any sort of power
+16:23 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Please say a few more words about your motion.
+16:23 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: agreed
+16:23 <@wltjr> anyway I am done, so we can conclude meeting
+16:23 <@NeddySeagoon> ... with the aim of moveing non technical authority to the Foundation
+16:23 <@wltjr> last thought, because that's how thing were done yesterday is no reason to do the same today
+16:23 <@fmccor> wltjr, If we approached him again, he might be. Do you suggest that? (This is a serious question)
+16:24 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, OK, Second.
+16:24 <@wltjr> if yesterdays way worked, fine, but I have yet to see a working Gentoo Foundation, ever, soo
+16:24 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion ... that this meeting agrees to approach and work with council in any restructiong of Gentoo that may be required as a result of recent GLEP 39 issues with the aim of moveing non technical authority to the Foundation
+16:24 <@fmccor> Secon.
+16:24 <@fmccor> ^++d
+16:24 <@NeddySeagoon> Vote please
+16:24 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: May I suggest changing it to "this board" ?
+16:24 <@wltjr> fmccor: we can contact drobbins when we have a structure in place that works, a board split from the officers etc, to where he could be a board member, but not have to do anything, I think Daniel would be open to that
+16:24 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, ok
+16:25 <@wltjr> yeah
+16:25 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion ... that this board agrees to approach and work with council in any restructiong of Gentoo that may be required as a result of recent GLEP 39 issues with the aim of moveing non technical authority to the Foundation
+16:25 <@NeddySeagoon> ok now ?
+16:25 <@fmccor> Yes. I second it.
+16:25 <@NeddySeagoon> Vote please
+16:25 <@fmccor> And I vote yes.
+16:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ?
+16:26 * tgall_foo mulls
+16:26 <@wltjr> yeah (bit of a typo restructuring :) )
+16:26 <@NeddySeagoon> I vote yes ... thats 3 in favour ... carried
+16:26 <@fmccor> tgall_foo, You've been very quiet indeed.
+16:26 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll write to council@ and trustees@ after the meeting
+16:26 <@tgall_foo> fmccor: haven't been here ... family things
+16:27 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: np
+16:27 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: about to conclude soon, so check backlog
+16:27 * tgall_foo does not like the idea of doing something just so any certain person can be a board member
+16:27 <@fmccor> Um, I don't think we said that.
+16:27 <@tgall_foo> but I'm not sure I am reading that right anyway
+16:27 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, where do you read that ?
+16:27 <@tgall_foo> wltjr's comment ... I'm not quite sure what he meant by that
+16:28 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: oh I have no intentions of such, I don't care personally if Daniel comes back or not, I kinda hope not, but his thoughts and some comments I don't entirely disagree with
+16:28 < jmbsvicetto> tgall_foo: Ah, so that drobbins can be a member?
+16:28 <@fmccor> Oh, he was answering a question I asked him.
+16:28 <@tgall_foo> ah ok
+16:28 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: I do agree some what on his intial vision and conception of the foundation though
+16:28 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, yup and I'm cool with that
+16:28 <@wltjr> FYI, when RH did the Fedora thing, one of the main reasons that I chose Gentoow as the NPF aspect
+16:28 <@NeddySeagoon> and our motion above ?
+16:29 <@fmccor> Me, I'd like to have him in some capacity.
+16:29 * tgall_foo votes yes for the record
+16:29 <@wltjr> so I am very concerned with having a foundation that will keep Gentoo alive, since my business depends on and promotes the use of Gentoo
+16:29 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion ... that this board agrees to approach and work with council in any restructiong of Gentoo that may be required as a result of recent GLEP 39 issues with the aim of moveing non technical authority to the Foundation ... complete with typos
+16:29 <@wltjr> fmccor: I am not opposed, I just have not been impressed with his playing to the media
+16:29 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, thanks
+16:29 <@wltjr> the first part of our wikipedia page started to read like his own page :)
+16:29 <@wltjr> I cleaned that up, and had to explain myself there
+16:29 <@fmccor> We don't need to tell Council about the typos. :)
+16:29 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, sounds like a good side conversation to have at some time
+16:30 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, any more business ?
+16:30 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: sure, but I wouldn't even approach him till the stuff is in place
+16:30 <@tgall_foo> wltjr, no I mean having a business that is connected to gentoo
+16:30 <@wltjr> not because he wants it, but because I can pretty much assume he will say no otherwise, due to a lack of structure, etc
+16:30 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: oh :)
+16:30 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no
+16:30 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, Any Other Business ?
+16:30 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, naw ... for another time
+16:30 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: sure anytime :), it's all indirect, nothing direct, I have no products, services, or solutions based on Gentoo, atm
+16:31 <@NeddySeagoon> I have one thing
+16:31 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: shoot
+16:31 <@NeddySeagoon> I have registered gentoo-foundation.org and gentoofoundation.org in case we want to use them
+16:32 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll donate them to gentoo if we do
+16:32 <@tgall_foo> good thinking
+16:32 <@NeddySeagoon> Now they are registed we can discuss it in public
+16:33 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: That might be a good way to have a mail voting system for gentoo
+16:33 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, has some ideas about what we might do
+16:33 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: The link tove gave me about debian's system seems very interesting
+16:33 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I hadn't thought it through any further than jmbsvicetto just mentioned.
+16:33 <@NeddySeagoon> I've not read it yet
+16:34 <@NeddySeagoon> anyway- I just wanted to share that
+16:34 <@NeddySeagoon>
+16:34 <@NeddySeagoon> Open Floor time
+16:34 <@NeddySeagoon> Anything from the floor
+16:34 <@fmccor> I think it's great, and we should be able to use it to help with membership issues, voting, and such.
+16:34 <@tgall_foo> i agree
+16:34 <@fmccor> That's all my AOB ever was. :)
+16:34 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: If we start looking seriously at that idea, we should really start with debian's system
+16:35 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, we would need to try their coude out
+16:36 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, well, I hope we can open the foundation to non devs, so we will need something that does not depend on accounts on woodpecker
+16:36 <@fmccor> Could we run it in parallel with an election as a test?
+16:36 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Absolutely to both.
+16:37 < shpaq> NeddySeagoon: i hope that too
+16:37 < jmbsvicetto> fmccor: We would need to test it through
+16:37 <@fmccor> jmbsvicetto, That's what I meant.
+16:37 < jmbsvicetto> fmccor: And we would need to have people looking through the code
+16:38 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, yeah, Debian don't have a very good reputation just now :0
+16:38 < jmbsvicetto> hehe
+16:38 <@wltjr> we must open up the foundation membership
+16:38 <@fmccor> wltjr, yes, we have to get to that.
+16:38 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more from the floor ?
+16:39 <@wltjr> one thing I am thinking how to adress is business and individuals, where an invidivual might work for a business, that's a member, as in say Intel is a member, I am a member, I work for Intel, now Intel has potentially two votes, instead of one
+16:39 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: The issue of membership by companies is going to raise some eyebrows
+16:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: doesn't look like it, unless someone else speaks up
+16:39 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: It will need careful consideration
+16:40 <@NeddySeagoon> Intel can have a vote and the member can have a vote - they may vote differently
+16:40 <@tgall_foo> it's an interesting question as to how a corp entity could have a vote
+16:40 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but if they are the same? like I have a different opinion, but don't want to go against my employer
+16:40 <@tgall_foo> IE ... what happens if it's a one person shop ?
+16:40 <@NeddySeagoon> Intel employees could have lots of votes
+16:40 <@tgall_foo> and that individual is a member too ? 2 votes ?
+16:40 <@wltjr> corp entities participate in many foundations
+16:40 <@wltjr> also a corp entity, will have a buy in, membership won't be free to them
+16:40 <@tgall_foo> yes .. but participation can mean many things
+16:40 <@wltjr> for everyone else, membership is free
+16:41 < jmbsvicetto> wltjr: hmm, that needs "lots" of discussion
+16:41 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats some detail for another time ... can we close the meeting ?
+16:41 <@wltjr> tgall_foo: single vote/voice can't bring about any specific radical change
+16:41 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes
+16:41 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: agreed, which is what will take place as we go through the members section
+16:41 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion to close the meeting ...
+16:41 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: just keep in mind, most common interest things, companies are given input on
+16:41 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: So the next regular meeting is on 22nd June and you'll have another meeting next weekend for the bylaws, right?
+16:42 <@wltjr> be it w3c, gnome foundation, hyperstransport consortium, etc
+16:42 <@tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, second
+16:42 <@fmccor> jmbsvicetto, That's my understanding.
+16:43 < shpaq> could somebody put the info about bylaws meeting in topic?
+16:43 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, yes and no. We are gathering to discuss the bylaws, its not a formal meeting and no votes will be taken. It will go ahead as a discussion, even if we are not quorate
+16:43 <@NeddySeagoon> shpaq, its there I hope
+16:43 <@NeddySeagoon> vote on the motion to close please
+16:43 <@fmccor> It's there for 25 May.
+16:43 < shpaq> NeddySeagoon: yes it is, i fail
+16:44 <@wltjr> yeah
+16:44 <@fmccor> Yes on the motion.
+16:44 <@NeddySeagoon> shpaq, and a link to the bylaws
+16:44 <@tgall_foo> yes : on motion
+16:44 <@NeddySeagoon> I vote yes too
+16:44 < shpaq> NeddySeagoon: i've already read it
+16:44 <@NeddySeagoon> Meeting Closed
+
+Additional commentary after meeting, non-official
+
+16:45 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll write to council as I said
+16:47 <@fmccor> I'm surprised there's no one from Council here.
+16:47 <@wltjr> fmccor: given they missed their own last meeting :) are you really
+16:48 <@fmccor> Actually, I'm wrong. I didn't notice that amne is in here.
+16:49 <@wltjr> fmccor: woot, bet he made their meeting as well :)
+16:49 <@fmccor> Yes, he did.
+16:51 <@fmccor> wltjr, If you missed it, Donnie announced at the Council non-meeting and on gentoo-dev@ that the discussion would be on -project.
+16:51 <@wltjr> fmccor: I recall seeing that, part of why I was stating on -project, that people really didn't care, they were exposed
+16:52 <@fmccor> Every discussion like that gets about 5 or 10 participants.
+16:53 <@fmccor> I typically don't say anything about topics I don't care about.
+16:53 <@fmccor> (Hm, that was a silly comment.)
+16:56 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: sorry, I got distracted reading mail. I didn't meant to imply that it was a formal meeting with votes
+16:57 <@wltjr> jmbsvicetto: yes there will be a gathering, you can attend :)
+16:57 <@NeddySeagoon> jmbsvicetto, thats ok. I just wanted to be clear, after last Thursday
+16:57 < jmbsvicetto> hehe
+16:57 < jmbsvicetto> NeddySeagoon: understood
+16:58 <@wltjr> damn, do we have our own slacker clause? seems the trustees need it more than council :)
+16:58 <@wltjr> given past boards
+16:58 <@fmccor> Nope.
+16:58 <@NeddySeagoon> GLEP 39 does not apply to the Foundation - We have New Mexico law, until the bylaws are in place
+16:58 <@wltjr> we should have one rule in place, in bylaws for all entities
+16:58 <@wltjr> board, officers, council, yet-to-be-formed-governing-bodies
+16:59 <@wltjr> same requirements for meetings, attendance, etc
+16:59 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, probably not. We answer to the law. Council answers to the devs
+16:59 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we are more likely to hear from the devs vs the law on such matters
+16:59 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: the law would only get involved, if per say some dev complained, or reported us
+16:59 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, but the law prevails
+17:00 <@wltjr> I am not sure there is a case ever of a company being sued, etc for not following it's own by laws
+17:00 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I don't see where they law would ever step in and be enforced
+17:00 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, possibly true ... if there was any conflict brought to our attention, we would fix the bylaws
+17:01 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: actually in that regard, we are held more accoutable by members, the the law
+17:01 <@NeddySeagoon> thats true. Not all members are devs
+17:02 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I still think the bylaws should mention and encompass the trustess, after all it's a body that has power within Gentoo, and is part of how it operates, so should be included in bylaws, not some outside GLEP which isn't a GLEP per say, but there was no other place to put the info, so GLEP 39 it ended up in
+17:02 <@wltjr> er s/encompass the trustees/encompass the council
+17:02 <@wltjr> the bylaws should clarify the power of the board, officers, and council
+17:03 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the council is not yet within our remit ... we need to discuss structure with council
+17:03 <@fmccor> You think so? I'm not sure about the council.
+17:04 <@fmccor> Actually, I think GLEP 39 is pretty good (but then, I supported the policy vote that led up to it).
+17:04 <@wltjr> need to find out where the text came from I believe it exists in other more official places
+17:04 <@wltjr> but per like wikipedia
+17:04 <@wltjr> The current Board of Trustees[8] is composed of five members who were announced (following an election) on March 2, 2008.[9] There is also a subsidiary seven-member Gentoo Council whose members decide on technical issues and policies.[10]
+17:04 <@wltjr> subsidary, means the council falls under the foundation, and board,just not on technical mattres
+17:04 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, not until council agree.
+17:05 <@fmccor> Council and its rules are there as a result of a vote of the developers, and really anything Council do is only with the consent of the developers.
+17:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: more like not until the devs agree via global vote, as these types of decisions can't be left up to the council to decide their own fate
+17:06 <@wltjr> the council was created after the foundation, and IMHO the relationship between the two never made sense, never functioned, and there really was no relationship or ties
+17:06 <@wltjr> two heads, one snake, totally stupid IMHO, but foundation came first, and there was no choice amongst devs to creating the foundation
+17:06 <@wltjr> that was Daniels decision, and the council was created after the fact
+17:07 <@wltjr> as I asked others in the past, show me any other project, entity, etc with a structure like ours
+17:07 <@fmccor> wltjr, You'd have to ask someone like g2boojum or ciaranm (or seemant or solar for that matter).
+17:07 <@wltjr> no one thought about the big picture when creating the council
+17:07 <@wltjr> fmccor: really I dont' care much about the past
+17:07 <@wltjr> fact is the foundation has never functioned since created
+17:08 <@wltjr> councils have been controversial since their inception
+17:08 <@wltjr> what about any of this is in 100% perfect working order and ideal for the project?
+17:08 <@wltjr> I am in no way saying to disban the concept of the council, there is a good reason for them to exist
+17:08 <@wltjr> but that the coucil is at the top of Gentoo is sadly mistaken
+17:09 <@wltjr> the council can't dictate to infra, they can request stuff, but even those request can require action by the trustees
+17:09 <@wltjr> even infra must answer to trustees, not council, unless it's of technical nature
+17:09 <@fmccor> This council or any other will always get into difficulties when it starts playing outside a rather narrow focus.
+17:10 <@wltjr> the lack of a structure behind the foundation, is why the council is dealing with stuff, IMHO they should not, and has expanded their focus, because of MIA trustees
+17:10 <@fmccor> Council is there to provide overall technical guidance and to act as a brake on devrel in case devrel gets carried away.
+17:11 <@wltjr> I don't think there was ever more than 7 council members, the foundation started with 13 board members, if that shows the significance of the two, and the resulting failure of the one, now down to 5 :(
+17:11 <@wltjr> council = CTO in a normal organization
+17:11 <@fmccor> There was a lot of excitement about 3 years ago now, and current structure sort of reflects that.
+17:11 <@fmccor> wltjr, exactly
+17:12 <@fmccor> Actually, 5 board members seems to make more sense.
+17:12 <@wltjr> in fact, I think anything we do, wrt to power moves from the council, should be expressed just as that, council = CTO, council != president, CEO, board, etc
+17:12 <@wltjr> fmccor: well 5 officers maybe
+17:12 <@wltjr> fmccor: I would like to see us have a large board, with unlimited terms, and growing members
+17:13 <@wltjr> with fixed amount of officers
+17:13 <@wltjr> not that I plan to be on the board forever, but that type of influence, might be best to have kept around, rather than replace annually
+17:13 <@fmccor> wltjr, Longer term, perhaps. That would make us look more like a traditional company.
+17:14 <@wltjr> if one steps down, a vote is called to replace them, every year or so, another is added to the board via general vote
+17:14 <@wltjr> something like that, not specifically
+17:14 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the ideal of a Foundation and Council were born of drobbins leaving Gentoo. They were conceided at the same time but impemented separately
+17:14 <@fmccor> wltjr, I do agree with that. You do not expect much turn over in a board unless one of them goes to prison or something.
+17:14 <@wltjr> put another way, why should we limit our sphere of influence, I have always been of thenature, of someone has the skills, and is willing to provide input, why pass on that
+17:15 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: possibly, but drobbins left in 04, foundation was created then, council/GLEP 39 is dated 05, a year later
+17:15 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: seems to be a result of the void left, and again lack of structure or organization to the foundation
+17:15 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: it likely would have been better if they were created at the same time
+17:16 <@fmccor> There was a lot more going on than that.
+17:16 <@wltjr> I am sure there was, there seems to have been lots of unrest, and all kinds of problems
+17:16 <@wltjr> which as a user since 03, I had no knowledge of
+17:16 <@fmccor> As I say, 3 years ago from just about now was very "exciting"
+17:16 <@wltjr> first sign to me there was a problem, was Dec 05, when I wanted Tomcat 5.5, and only 5.0 was in tree, and noticed there was no maintainer :)
+17:17 <@NeddySeagoon> email gone
+17:17 <@fmccor> What got me into devrel dates back about 3 years.
+17:18 * wltjr is about to be gone as well, weekly chores, and a bathroom to grout, tiled last weekend :)
+17:18 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think the council predates the GLEP
+17:18 <@fmccor> wltjr, What you are seeing right now is very tame by comparison.
+17:18 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: it can't GLEP 39 is what created the council in the first place, which is my entire point behind the global vote, they globally voted in a body to take over global matters and decisions :)
+17:19 <@fmccor> No, GLEP comes after.
+17:19 <@wltjr> at least per the document, or so it seems, I was around, but not paying any attention so can't say for sure
+17:19 <@fmccor> We did not vote on the GLEP, we voted on the policy.
+17:19 <@fmccor> The GLEP is what Grant wrote up to put it all into standard form.
+17:19 <@wltjr> well the abstract of GLEP 39 says
+17:19 <@wltjr> GLEP 4 is replaced with a new "metastructure" that retains established projects (and makes new projects easier to create), but adds a new "Gentoo Council" to handle global (cross-project) issues.
+17:20 <@NeddySeagoon> ciaranm had a hand in the policy that was voted - it became a GLEP later
+17:20 <@wltjr> adds a new, implies it did not exist before
+17:20 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I'm pretty sure it was documenting what existed
+17:20 <@fmccor> The policy is a combination of ciaranm's work and a few others.
+17:20 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Yes, GLEP is after the fact.
+17:20 <@wltjr> that's another thing, we are following the lead of a dev who was, well, he didn't retire because he wanted to, let's leave it at that :), granted I value his technical skill, etc. I do wonder at times who's lead we are following
+17:21 <@wltjr> and seemant, g2boojum , etc are where atm? so it's nice this stuff was put into place, but seeing ones ideas through, and just having them followed is very different IMHO
+17:21 <@fmccor> wltjr, He helped propose it. We are following the lead of the developers who voted for it out of a choice of several.
+17:21 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, It does not matter what the intent was when the document was written. If the intent was not caputed in the words, its a crap document
+17:22 <@fmccor> g2boojum is still active.
+17:22 <@wltjr> fmccor: and even the devs vote I question, did they realize what they were voting on, or the implications, like calling for a new council in 30 days, or etc, doesnt' seem like there was much discussion debate on the matter, need to go look and find out
+17:22 <@fmccor> And I suspect that vapier had a hand in it, but I don't really remember.
+17:22 <@fmccor> Yes.
+17:22 <@NeddySeagoon> read your email guys
+17:23 <@fmccor> It was all well discussed, and it reflects what we wanted.
+17:23 <@wltjr> fmccor: active by what standards? I think lack of removal is more out of respect or etc
+17:23 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I would suggest with the benefit of hindsight, it wasn't thought throgh
+17:24 <@wltjr> I do believe it was a reaction to the times, which all felt a slacker clause was needed, but didn't think through the actual implication of that clause
+17:24 <@fmccor> I like your email.
+17:24 <@wltjr> much less detailing how it should be carried out
+17:25 <@fmccor> It was thought through.
+17:25 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thanks
+17:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well stated, and I appreciate it coming from you
+17:25 <@wltjr> had I said the exact same thing, coming from me, I can bet it would go down differently
+17:25 <@NeddySeagoon> Well, GLEP 39 is what it is.
+17:25 <@wltjr> and it sucks
+17:26 <@fmccor> I don't have anything archived going back that far, but it was well discussed.
+17:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yes
+17:26 <@wltjr> I had to re-read it several times, because of all the unofficial, side chatter stuff in there
+17:26 <@wltjr> very little beef :), where's the beef :)
+17:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, its like the Complete Shakespeare Company
+17:27 <@wltjr> well, gotta run, need food, and other things to do
+17:28 <@NeddySeagoon> Its getting late here too
+17:28 <@wltjr> good meeting, and chatting with you all, lots of dicussions and even more work ahead, but the sun is starting to shine a bit, slowly but surely
+17:28 <@NeddySeagoon> I think so too
+17:29 -!- NeddySeagoon changed the topic of #gentoo-trustees to: Join our public mailing list gentoo-nfp at lists dot gentoo dot org | Next regular meeting, here, Sunday 22 June at 1900 UTC - Agenda TBD | Logs/Minutes of past meetings http://tinyurl.com/2qcb4o | Meeting to review and adopt bylaws to be continued with Article IV on May 25 http://xrl.us/bke7u | All meetings 1900 UTC | Gentoo Foundation In Good Standing http://www.nmprc.state.nm.us/cgi-bin/prcdtl.cgi?2463313
+17:29 <@fmccor> Yes,
+17:31 * fmccor is also off in search of food.
diff --git a/2008/august2008.txt b/2008/august2008.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..b866fa6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/august2008.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,429 @@
+21:00 * NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order - roll call, tsunam and fmccor. wltjr said he would not attend
+21:00 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, you had to vote in a trustee election as well
+21:00 * fmccor here
+21:00 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, wakey wakey
+21:00 < musikc|laptop> i honestly dont recall if i did or not
+21:01 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I'm around =)
+21:01 <@NeddySeagoon> heh. OK we are quorate ... lets go. Agenda is in /topic
+21:01 <@fmccor> rane or Jorge would know --- they were the election officials.
+21:01 <@NeddySeagoon> I think we can skip Introductions
+21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> So, Actions From the Last Meeting...
+21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam
+21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> care to say a few words ?
+21:02 <@tsunam> paypal finally removed the old bank accounts. Need to check with them and see if there's anything the need now to unlock the account fully
+21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> Does our paypay work ?
+21:03 <@tsunam> we can accept donations
+21:03 <@tsunam> can't send out
+21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> paypal*
+21:03 <@tsunam> currently
+21:03 <@tsunam> they've been less then helpful in working with me on this :(
+21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> do we owe anyone anything ?
+21:04 <@tsunam> just trustee's some money
+21:04 <@tsunam> wltjr 10-20 bucks he's not asked for yet, and me for the lawyers fee's still
+21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Needs fixed then, we don't want to mix our own and Foundation funds
+21:05 <@NeddySeagoon> What about a bank account ?
+21:05 <@tsunam> Last I heard was that the bank we wanted to go to was an online bank but required someone in new mexico to sign
+21:05 <@tsunam> that was for compass was my understanding
+21:06 <@fmccor> I didn't know they needed anyone to go there. Hm.
+21:06 <@tsunam> I'll have to reread the thread, but I could of sworn someone said that it was a requirement
+21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> Please tsunam. Do you have the cheque for our funds from Grant ?
+21:07 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: still with grant
+21:07 <@tsunam> he doesn't want to pass it on until the bank account is setup
+21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Have you asked for it ?
+21:07 <@tsunam> sort of a chicken and the egg thing...
+21:08 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: aye
+21:08 <@NeddySeagoon> Don't we need it for opening the account ?
+21:08 <@tsunam> I've asked for it and that was the response I got
+21:08 <@fmccor> Yeah. Bank probably wants funds to set up an account. :(
+21:08 <@tsunam> *nods*
+21:08 <@tsunam> again assumes that check is still good
+21:08 <@NeddySeagoon> So, fix paypay and use some of those funds
+21:09 <@tsunam> assuming they don't want a working bank account *laughs*
+21:09 <@NeddySeagoon> heh.
+21:09 <@fmccor> Grant could cash it and write another.
+21:09 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, are you going to have time to get onto this ?
+21:11 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: honestly, unknown. I can look into compass again see if I was mistaken about needing to be in nm for it
+21:11 <@NeddySeagoon> You have an incentive, we owe you money.
+21:11 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, if we don't need to go to NM, can you open an account too ?
+21:11 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: should be able to if no need to go to nm
+21:12 <@tsunam> as its just filling out paperwork
+21:12 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Care to estimate a date for checking the thread and applying for an account if no travel is needed ?
+21:13 <@fmccor> They have an on-line site. Might not need to check the thread.
+21:13 <@tsunam> two weeks out
+21:13 <@NeddySeagoon> Thats our next meeting - deal!
+21:13 <@fmccor> That's fine with me.
+21:14 <@NeddySeagoon> Next - Trustees and Foundation Article For the GMN - NeddySeagoon
+21:14 <@NeddySeagoon> I've done a bit, fmccor has done a bit, tsunam ?
+21:14 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: working on it
+21:15 <@NeddySeagoon> Should we leave this until we are up to strenght. A sort of meet the new Trustees too, or should we run it with 3 and a vacancy list ?
+21:16 <@fmccor> We could do it in pieces, or would you rather make it one dedicated GMN issue?
+21:16 <@tsunam> I'd rather have all the slots filled
+21:16 <@fmccor> Otherwise, I'd leave it, I think.
+21:16 <@tsunam> before that
+21:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets fill all the slots first then
+21:17 <@fmccor> Yes.
+21:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Next ... Trustees and Councillors - NeddySeagoon to Add Clause to draft bylaws
+21:17 <@NeddySeagoon> I've done that, its ugly but its there
+21:18 <@fmccor> Where? I must have just read over it.
+21:18 <@NeddySeagoon> No individual shall serve as a Gentoo Foundation Trustee and Gentoo Council Member concurrently
+21:19 <@NeddySeagoon> under Article V Trustees
+21:19 -!- fragalot [n=services@gentoo/user/FamousToaster] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
+21:19 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, ^^
+21:19 <@fmccor> I must be looking at an out-of-date version.
+21:20 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, see the link in /topic
+21:21 <@NeddySeagoon> Next ... International Licencing For Gentoo Merchandise
+21:21 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, you were going to check with our lawyers
+21:22 <@fmccor> I'm blind I guess.
+21:22 <@fmccor> OK.
+21:23 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, ^^
+21:23 <@fmccor> First, our trademarks lawyer is pro bono and always has been and always will be. When we get our funds in shape, we should spend a little money ($200)
+21:24 <@fmccor> to get the address right on them.
+21:24 <@NeddySeagoon> Agreed
+21:24 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^
+21:24 <@fmccor> Second, as I said, this lawyer knows as much about internal licensing agreements I do.
+21:24 <@tsunam> hmm
+21:24 <@tsunam> the 200 dollars or?
+21:24 <@NeddySeagoon> internal/international ?
+21:24 <@tsunam> ah okie
+21:25 <@fmccor> international. :)
+21:25 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, yes - to fix our trademarks
+21:25 <@tsunam> we've started it already for the international
+21:25 <@tsunam> so might as well finish it properly
+21:26 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, for the avoidance of doubt, do you agreed to spending $200 to fix our trademarks ?
+21:26 <@fmccor> She was going to check around with the firm to see if they could do it pro bono and let me know if they could. I haven't heard anything.
+21:26 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: yep
+21:26 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks
+21:26 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Is it polite to ask whats happening ?
+21:27 <@fmccor> Renat had a couple other leads, so I'll get back with him and chase them down (he knows some people who actually do that sort of thing)
+21:27 <@NeddySeagoon> Ah ok.
+21:27 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, contact with Renat for the next meeting ?
+21:28 <@fmccor> I haven't had a chance to, but it's on my list. He should be back at Harvard, so it's just a matter of how quickly he responds.
+21:28 <@fmccor> I'll start on that after the holiday on Monday.
+21:28 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thats out of our control ... but you can do your bit before the next meeting ?
+21:28 <@fmccor> Yes.
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> Next ... Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> 177966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities (on hold for bylaws)
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> Nothing to add
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> 217511 The Gentoo Store is Out of Date - musikc
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, your turn to say a few words please
+21:30 <@NeddySeagoon> !bug 217511
+21:30 < Willikins> NeddySeagoon: https://bugs.gentoo.org/217511 "The Gentoo Store is Out of Date"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; NEW; neddyseagoon@g.o:trustees@g.o
+21:30 < musikc|laptop> dberkholz is pr lead and has not had time to address the request about PR assisting
+21:30 < musikc|laptop> if you check devaway his wife is having a baby so i do not wish to push him at this time
+21:31 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, I understand he is going to be busy
+21:31 < musikc|laptop> he should be back around next week
+21:32 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, He will be a wreck - the sleepless nights just starting
+21:32 < quantumsummers|c> any interest in new t-shirt designs?
+21:32 < musikc|laptop> you're so encouraging :-P
+21:32 <@NeddySeagoon> Can we ask anyone else in PR ?
+21:33 < quantumsummers|c> perhaps a design contest
+21:33 < musikc|laptop> pr is ... a small group at present
+21:33 < musikc|laptop> when is the next trustee meeting?
+21:33 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, Sure - lots of things. We need to get CDs into the store. We pulled 2006.0 a few months ago
+21:34 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop 14 or 15 of September, depending if we go to Mondays as others wanted
+21:35 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, The problem is running the store and keeping it current
+21:35 < musikc|laptop> ok, i can either get information from dberkholz or draft something up on my own as i do not think he'd take issue with that.
+21:35 < musikc|laptop> the day of the week will be an issue for me depending on the time of day
+21:36 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop 19:00 UTC. we are spread over 8 time zones
+21:37 < musikc|laptop> for now that is noon my time and that i can work
+21:37 <@NeddySeagoon> ok. For the next meeting then.
+21:38 <@NeddySeagoon> Item 4. Move #gentoo-trustees away from freenode ?
+21:38 < musikc|laptop> ill poke you or tsunam for more details offline, can come up something within 2 weeks
+21:38 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, ok
+21:38 <@NeddySeagoon> Don't delegate to tsunam :)
+21:38 <@NeddySeagoon> Item 4. Move #gentoo-trustees away from freenode ?
+21:38 < musikc|laptop> nah, not delegate, ask questions
+21:39 <@fmccor> I'd rather not move unless you have a reason to.
+21:39 <@NeddySeagoon> This came in after a Gentoo developer was klined
+21:39 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I think moving parts of #gentoo away from freenode without everyone is seperating the organization not strengthing it =/
+21:39 <@fmccor> tsunam, agreed
+21:40 <@NeddySeagoon> I don't think we should move either, unless the rest of Gentoo decides to. That seems to have dies down now
+21:40 <@fmccor> Doesn't matter much to me where we are, but we should all be the same place.
+21:40 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, agreed
+21:40 <@NeddySeagoon> Anyone want to add anything ?
+21:41 < quantumsummers|c> not I
+21:41 < musikc|laptop> i had a question about the conflict of interest bit. why is it a conflict to care about legal/accounting AND technical?
+21:41 <@tsunam> I would like to add that I continue to be dismayed by what occured and wish it be known that I'd like to see gentoo move away from freenode
+21:41 <@fmccor> musikc|laptop, Where?
+21:41 < musikc|laptop> oh hell, ya i agree with tsunam. sorry thought it was general question time.
+21:42 <@fmccor> No, we're just getting to the fun part. :)
+21:42 <@NeddySeagoon> OK now the bit you have all been waiting for 5. Adoption of draft Foundation Bylaws
+21:42 <@fmccor> Is version 7 the correct one?
+21:42 * tsunam points to musikc|laptop's question
+21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> The latest draft of the bylaws are at http://dev.gentoo.org/~neddyseagoon/docs/FoundationBylawsProposed_7.xml
+21:43 <@tsunam> can we address that first before working on the bylaws quickly
+21:43 * musikc|laptop figures its viewed as not a relevant question
+21:43 <@fmccor> Where did you mean conflict of interest?
+21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, I can't think of an issue just now unless its a council application for funds and the trustees voting on it
+21:44 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon amended article V to say you cant be on both, i asked tsunam why and he said likely a conflict of interest. im wondering why.
+21:44 < musikc|laptop> iirc wolf is the only person who was on both and i dont recall anyone having an issue with that so why now? what has changed?
+21:45 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, it says you can't be on both. Consider what whould happen if the trustees were a subset of council
+21:46 <@NeddySeagoon> council asks for funding or something,, council votes for it
+21:46 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, again, someone was on both in the past and it was never an issue. what has changed that made it an issue?
+21:47 <@NeddySeagoon> maybe a circumstance did not arise in the past for it to become an issue
+21:47 < musikc|laptop> wouldnt the person who thinks its a good idea still think its a good idea whether they proposed it or someone else did?
+21:47 <@fmccor> It's probably not. This just makes sure.
+21:47 <@NeddySeagoon> Consider what whould happen if the trustees were a subset of council. council asks for funding or something,, council votes for it
+21:47 < quantumsummers|c> NeddySeagoon's point regarding the board v. council COI is valid, the trustees of a foundation are usually extra-organizational, though a council person can sit as an officer
+21:47 < musikc|laptop> i dont see the sense and am seeking that fmccor
+21:48 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, but they arent a subset?
+21:48 < musikc|laptop> it sounds like we're saying we dont trust people
+21:48 <@fmccor> No, we're a completely separate entity.
+21:48 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, Not today they are not but if people were allowed to serve on both, it could happen
+21:48 < quantumsummers|c> this separation is standard in npos
+21:49 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, as the devs and/or foundation votes ppl in wouldnt the community be voting for whom they wanted?
+21:49 < musikc|laptop> so shouldnt we let the community make that decision?
+21:49 <@NeddySeagoon> The council and foundation were set up as seperate entities. How would you keep them seperate ?
+21:49 < musikc|laptop> i just dont see the point if other than to say 'we cant trust people to make good decisions in the best interest of gentoo'
+21:49 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, Its a segregation of duties issue I think
+21:49 < quantumsummers|c> this is generally considered a legal issue
+21:49 <@fmccor> musikc|laptop, when we are here doing what we are doing right now, we are not part of gentoo at all.
+21:50 < musikc|laptop> fmccor, and thats why i said foundation votes
+21:50 < musikc|laptop> i like the right to vote for who i think is best for the role
+21:50 < musikc|laptop> and instead am being told that one person is not capable of doing two things
+21:50 < musikc|laptop> which i do not believe, otherwise i wouldnt want that person doing either thing if they were not capable
+21:51 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, The council is 7 people and the Trustees 5. The original intent of seperation would be lost.
+21:51 < musikc|laptop> it seems like a restriction of our options for reasons of 'what if' and the what if has never happened, even when there was over lap so i do not see the need to make the change at present
+21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> I don't see it as a change. The Foundation has never had bylaws yet, so they can't be changed
+21:52 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, no the original intent was to have council focus on technical direction and trustees on legal/accounting. that doesnt change just b/c one person could be capable of doing both or else we as the community have voted very poorly if one person was only capable of one position yet we voted them in for both
+21:52 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, it is a change when you are restricting who i can vote for a role
+21:53 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, If someone wants to swap thats fine.
+21:53 < musikc|laptop> i think there are qualified people on trustees and council presently that could do very well both teams, but you are saying that a person is only capable of doing one.
+21:54 < musikc|laptop> it is an artificial limitation and a removal of my rights to vote who i think is best suited for any role
+21:54 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, Nope. Its not about capabilities
+21:54 < quantumsummers|c> it is reasonable, however, to simply disallow the Council president from being a trustee for the term
+21:54 <@NeddySeagoon> Its segregation of duties
+21:54 < musikc|laptop> how is it about capabilities?
+21:55 < musikc|laptop> again, you are telling me that i cannot find one person capable of being BOTH a trustee and a council person and i disagree, it is my right to vote for whom i feel is the best fit
+21:56 < musikc|laptop> the segregation of duties is done by having two teams, however it is a limitation to say that a person must be segregated physically, that a person cannot have business sense and technical sense, or that cannot be trusted to use both wisely
+21:56 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, you may nominate who you like. They must choose which body they serve on
+21:56 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, i feel you miss my point entirely. yes i may vote for who i like, but now for ONE team only
+21:57 <@fmccor> Consider, suppose the council asks the foundation for funding, or something. The conflict arises if there is a council member on the board.
+21:57 < musikc|laptop> given how few people even run for trustees you are removing possible and capable people from the selection if they wish to also serve in the technical direction.
+21:57 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, Its not a new point. It was dicussed at the last meeing and the action was placed on me to update the bylaws draft, which I have done.
+21:58 < musikc|laptop> fmccor, the notion of conflict of interest here is silly imo. a person already thinks a certain way, so you're saying that they would think differently if they were on both teams or that YOU cannot trust someone to make a rational decision b/c he was involved in the desire for something as well as the means to say yes i agree with my desire?
+21:58 < musikc|laptop> its foolhearty at best
+21:58 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, so again my original response to tsunam is accurate, that my question is not relevant, that being because you have already decided?
+21:59 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, I propose that the bylaws are adoped as written and reviewed prior to the Feb 2009 Trustee Election
+21:59 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I'll so move if you like.
+21:59 < quantumsummers|c> the simple compromise here is to allow councilors to have seats on the board of trustees, while disallowing the council pres from sitting on the board. there is precedent for this, as well as NeddySeagoon's complete separation. However, it is generally considered bad practice to allow an executive director ( i.e. council pres.) to be on the board.
+21:59 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, The trustees decided at the last meeting, not me personally
+22:00 <+jmbsvicetto> I see I forgot your meeting again :|
+22:00 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, i didnt say you personally, you in the sense of trustees.
+22:00 < musikc|laptop> so if i understand correctly the trustees do not wish to hear my concern with this any longer?
+22:00 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, thank you for the clarification
+22:00 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, Right now it's better to go with what we have.
+22:01 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, We can always amend if a case can be made.
+22:01 < quantumsummers|c> I agree, merely pointing out options
+22:01 < musikc|laptop> fmccor, are my questions and comments not a case made or just not deemed worthy?
+22:02 < musikc|laptop> a perfect case is... it worked in the past. Gentoo is the proof of concept.
+22:02 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, I hear your concern. There will be no elections until Feb 2009, so we have a chance to change the bylaws if needed. In practice, we are after a moving target, so I see bylaws updates happening at least twice a year to start with
+22:02 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, so i must wait until new trustee elections to hope i can vote for someone who isnt already on council, thus sacrificing the technical direction of gentoo for the legal one?
+22:03 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, Past performace is no indicator of future performace
+22:03 < quantumsummers|c> could start a bug regarding this specific issue, then update the bylaws before the election
+22:03 < musikc|laptop> and random 'what ifs' are no indicator of future performance
+22:04 < musikc|laptop> quantumsummers|c, i thought it made sense to discuss it before it went into action instead of trying to revoke something after the fact
+22:04 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, Nope, the bylaws can be changed quite quickly, once we have some
+22:04 < musikc|laptop> http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/bylaws.xml
+22:04 < musikc|laptop> are those not bylaws?
+22:04 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, they were never adopted - so No, they are no
+22:04 <@NeddySeagoon> not*
+22:05 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, thank you for clarifying
+22:05 <@NeddySeagoon> np
+22:06 < musikc|laptop> so i seem to understand that you would rather fix something after the fact then correct it before it bec omes the fact?
+22:06 < quantumsummers|c> musikc|laptop: I agree there needs to be discourse on this subject, but I understand the immediate necessity of adopting bylaws for legal reasons
+22:06 < musikc|laptop> so remove that one part and implement the rest. it is one sentence that appears thrown in anyways.
+22:07 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, The bylaws as adopted will never be perfect. Its a moving target which it why its taken several years to get here. Yes. I prefer something imperfect rather than nothing
+22:07 < musikc|laptop> there is no discussion prior or after the sentence that explain it, just a matter of fact statement that i ask be removed so we can visit the topic
+22:08 < musikc|laptop> what is the harm about commenting out one sentence?
+22:08 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, Lets ask fmccor and tsunam
+22:08 <@fmccor> Discussion was last meeting, don't recall how much.
+22:08 < quantumsummers|c> this may be a good time for a vote of the trustees with a provision for future re-consideration of the issue (a bug)
+22:08 < musikc|laptop> i disagree and trustees seem to be saying 'we can change it later' but im asking that we just comment out one sentence and discuss whether it should be added later
+22:08 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, please leave them as proposed.
+22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ??
+22:09 <@tsunam> sec
+22:09 <@tsunam> someone was at the door
+22:09 <@tsunam> reading scroll back
+22:10 <@tsunam> so suggestion is to remove the can't be trustee and council?
+22:10 <@NeddySeagoon> yes
+22:10 < musikc|laptop> i ask that it be commented out and the remaining implemented
+22:10 < musikc|laptop> id like to discuss the matter further as though NeddySeagoon and fmccor tried to explain i cannot understand the why
+22:10 <@tsunam> hmm
+22:11 <@tsunam> I'd rather get something implemented...if it takes removing that to get it then yes
+22:11 <@fmccor> It doesn't take that.
+22:12 <@fmccor> The three of us are going to vote on the proposal.
+22:12 < musikc|laptop> as i understand it, fmccor and NeddySeagoon do not trust people to make the right decision for two teams, only being capable to do what is right for one team.
+22:12 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Its only we three that vote on it. No changes are required. I would like us all to be in favour though
+22:12 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, Its not a trust issue at all
+22:13 < quantumsummers|c> its a legal issue
+22:13 <@tsunam> I'd prefer it to stay, but then it also potentially limits who can be a trustee and we all know its already hard to find people who are willing to bet trustee's
+22:13 < musikc|laptop> i dont see how its a legal issue
+22:13 < musikc|laptop> i work for a large public company and people on our executive board are also on our board of directors
+22:13 <@fmccor> tsunam, It limits it by 7 out of the entire Foundation. :)
+22:14 <@NeddySeagoon> Would someone propose a motion on the proposed bylaws please
+22:14 < quantumsummers|c> right, but is the CEO on the board of trustees, musikc|laptop?
+22:14 < musikc|laptop> fmccor, you yoursle wanted to be on both
+22:14 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, 6. There is a councilor who is not a Foundation member
+22:14 < musikc|laptop> quantumsummers|c, who is our CEO in Gentoo?
+22:14 <@fmccor> And it was a mistake.
+22:14 < quantumsummers|c> that would be the council pres
+22:15 < musikc|laptop> quantumsummers|c, there is no council president iirc
+22:15 < quantumsummers|c> equiv to executive director, thought that was vaiper
+22:15 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, Gentoo has a huge separtation between the distro and the foundation
+22:15 < musikc|laptop> nope, they are all listed as member
+22:15 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I move we accept the bylaws as proposed in http://dev.gentoo.org/~neddyseagoon/docs/FoundationBylawsProposed_7.xml
+22:15 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thank you
+22:15 < quantumsummers|c> NeddySeagoon: this I know, and agree with a strong separation
+22:16 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^
+22:16 < Philantrop> quantumsummers|c: vapier isn't even a council member. :)
+22:16 < quantumsummers|c> :)
+22:16 < musikc|laptop> fmccor, why did you run for both if you felt you couldnt do both?
+22:16 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: that's updated now?
+22:16 < musikc|laptop> why did you wait until after you were not elected for council to make this decision?
+22:16 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, No - the wording stands
+22:16 <@tsunam> k
+22:17 < quantumsummers|c> are the trustees in agreement?
+22:17 <@tsunam> I think so
+22:17 < musikc|laptop> quantumsummers|c, yes
+22:17 <@fmccor> I vote yes.
+22:17 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, care to second the motion so we can vote
+22:17 <@tsunam> oh lucky me
+22:17 < musikc|laptop> though fmccor has not answered by question why it was ok for him to be a trustee and to attempt to be council
+22:17 <@tsunam> seconded
+22:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Vote
+22:17 <@tsunam> aye
+22:17 <@fmccor> Yes.
+22:18 <@NeddySeagoon> yes
+22:18 <@tsunam> musikc|laptop: that's something you'd have to ask ferris
+22:18 < musikc|laptop> i did, he's ignoring the question though ive asked it twice now
+22:18 <@NeddySeagoon> The motion that bylaws as proposed in http://dev.gentoo.org/~neddyseagoon/docs/FoundationBylawsProposed_7.xml has been passed
+22:18 < quantumsummers|c> congrats
+22:18 <@NeddySeagoon> We have bylaws!
+22:19 < musikc|laptop> so what is good for the goose (fmccor) is not good for the gander (the rest of gentoo)
+22:19 < quantumsummers|c> bubbley for everyone
+22:19 <@fmccor> musikc|laptop, Someone nominated me and I accepted. Afterwards, I was told that was a mistake.
+22:19 < musikc|laptop> but you ran
+22:19 < musikc|laptop> you never withdrew?
+22:19 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, I was nominated and declined
+22:19 < musikc|laptop> NeddySeagoon, yes, but fmccor did not
+22:19 < musikc|laptop> he ran
+22:19 <@tsunam> aye
+22:20 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc|laptop, true.
+22:20 <@NeddySeagoon> One more item before AOB
+22:20 <@NeddySeagoon> Treasurers Report for FY ending 30 June 2008 tsunam
+22:20 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, last time we heard that there was a problem
+22:20 <@tsunam> aye
+22:21 <@tsunam> I misread some numbers and screwed up the reports :(
+22:21 <@NeddySeagoon> fixed now ?
+22:21 <@tsunam> I've more been dealing with paypal for the bank accounts that took a number of tries then doing the updated documentation which I need to get done
+22:21 <@tsunam> yes its fixed now, I need to review them and make sure they are all correct
+22:22 <@tsunam> can say that we've had a number of large donations this year from various events/projects our developers have been involved with
+22:22 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, is this our internal accounts or the stuff we have to file with the IRS ?
+22:22 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: internaly/501* status info
+22:22 <@tsunam> as we need to publish quarterly reports
+22:22 <@NeddySeagoon> yep
+22:22 <@tsunam> to maintain the NFP status for any group
+22:22 <@tsunam> no matter the type of NFP
+22:23 <@NeddySeagoon> Ah - ok
+22:23 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, are you needing some help, or are you coping ?
+22:23 <@tsunam> can cope with this
+22:25 <@NeddySeagoon> And our yearly IRS filing ?
+22:26 <@tsunam> that'll be beginning of next year, need to see what I need to file out
+22:26 <@tsunam> what info is required
+22:27 <@tsunam> my understanding is that its one form
+22:27 <@NeddySeagoon> You are closer to it than me
+22:27 <@tsunam> being in the US and all *nods* :-P
+22:27 <@fmccor> Should we have an accountant for this sort of thing?
+22:27 <@NeddySeagoon> When will we be able to see the quarterly reports ?
+22:28 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thats being worked
+22:28 <@fmccor> Good, I thought so.
+22:28 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^
+22:29 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: can't give exactly when on the quarterly as it is over 2 years to update
+22:29 <@tsunam> so I want to be very sure of my numbers
+22:30 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, can we see some ?
+22:30 <@tsunam> I'll try and get some up this week
+22:30 < quantumsummers|c> tsunam: have you tried using gnucash for this?
+22:30 < quantumsummers|c> it will do automated reports
+22:30 <@tsunam> quantumsummers|c: its more a matter of getting the info out of paypal...
+22:31 < quantumsummers|c> tsunam: I see, ouch
+22:31 <@tsunam> I've used gnucash and kmymoney2 for this sort of stuff personally but its still decent effort and lots of people to thank
+22:32 < quantumsummers|c> indeed
+22:32 <@tsunam> and no easy way to automate it from the csv's etiher I tried that for a while
+22:32 <@tsunam> but yes I'll get something going
+22:34 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ok ... It will be on the agenda for the next meeting until the action is complete
+22:34 <@tsunam> k
+22:35 <@NeddySeagoon> Item 7 Any other business
+22:35 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ?
+22:35 <@tsunam> I got none
+22:35 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, ?
+22:35 <@fmccor> Two administrative ones.
+22:35 <@NeddySeagoon> on you go
+22:36 <@fmccor> 1) For technical reasons, NeddySeagoon and I need to add Chairman and vice-Chairman to our titles ---
+22:36 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Why?
+22:36 <@fmccor> Otherwise, if we ever have a separate president, that person presides.
+22:36 <@fmccor> Thus ---
+22:37 <@NeddySeagoon> You mean if we have an officer president ?
+22:37 <@fmccor> Board meetings are run by the chairman, but but if none, then by the president.
+22:37 <@fmccor> Yes. It's to keep control of the board.
+22:37 <@NeddySeagoon> I understand
+22:38 <@fmccor> Certainly not an immediate issue, but one not to lose sight of.
+22:39 <@NeddySeagoon> I would be good to split off the officer roles the trustees have been doing, get more business admin on board
+22:39 <@fmccor> That was what my point was about.
+22:40 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets hold it over to the next meeting.
+22:40 <@NeddySeagoon> what was your second point ?
+22:41 <@fmccor> Timing on secretary and filling up to full strength.
+22:41 <@fmccor> I don't know when the next GMN will be is why I ask.
+22:42 <@NeddySeagoon> I want to make an announcement at the next meeting. Its been unfortunate there was no Aug GMN
+22:42 <@fmccor> Fair enough.
+22:42 <@NeddySeagoon> but we can't wait for the GMN
+22:42 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Is that it ?
+22:42 <@fmccor> I think so, yes.
+22:43 <@NeddySeagoon> Last item ... 8. Open floor
+22:43 <@fmccor> rane always has something. :)
+22:45 <@fmccor> Oh, we need to update the actual bylaws page.
+22:46 <@fmccor> And remove "draft" from the home page. :)
+22:46 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, is that an offer ?
+22:46 <@fmccor> I can do it, I think.
+22:46 <@NeddySeagoon> I need to learn to use CVS
+22:46 <@fmccor> The proposal does not have a date in it; I can put today's date in or you can.
+22:47 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, It should be todays date as its today the bylaws were adopted
+22:47 <@NeddySeagoon> You can fix it
+22:48 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more for Open Floor
+22:48 <@fmccor> Right. That's just the bit in the sidebar.
+22:48 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor yes
+22:48 < quantumsummers|c> are the trustees planning on further recruitment of officers beyond secretary?
+22:49 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, Its not been formally decided but my view is yes.
+22:49 <@fmccor> I hope so.
+22:50 <@NeddySeagoon> We needed the trustees to do both roles while there were no bylaws but now we have ground rules, we can look at getting officers from outside the developer pool
+22:50 < quantumsummers|c> very good
+22:50 <@fmccor> membership pool. :)
+22:51 < quantumsummers|c> thank you
+22:51 -!- Arfrever [n=Arfrever@gentoo/user/arfrever] has joined #gentoo-trustees
+22:51 < quantumsummers|c> I have a meeting with CPAs starting tuesday
+22:51 < quantumsummers|c> *meetings*
+22:52 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, good luck
+22:52 < quantumsummers|c> thank you
+22:52 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more for Open Floor ?
+22:53 * fmccor is working on bylaws now --- wait around for 5 minutes or so, and I can say updated (then wait 15 minutes more to see if it worked)
+22:53 < quantumsummers|c> when is the next meeting?
+22:54 * quantumsummers|c grabs his calendar...
+22:54 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, tsunam Do you prefer 14 or the 15 September for our next meeting ? (Sun or Mon ?)
+22:56 <@fmccor> Or, maybe not. The update complains about lots of xml problems
+22:56 <@fmccor> Prefer the 15th
+22:57 <@tsunam> that's my birthday =/
+22:57 < quantumsummers|c> yo tsunam, mine's the 11th, happy b-day in advance
+22:57 <@tsunam> quantumsummers|c: same to you
+22:57 < quantumsummers|c> :)
+22:57 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, 14th then ?
+22:59 <@fmccor> Sure.
+23:00 <@NeddySeagoon> DONM 14 Sep at 19:00 UTC
+23:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Its a Sunday
+23:01 <@tsunam> k
+23:02 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I'm going to need some help, because This shows many xml errors when I try to commit.
+23:02 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I did it in xmlcopy editor
+23:02 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, after the meeting
+23:03 <@NeddySeagoon> If thats the end of Open Floor, the meeting is closed
+23:03 <@NeddySeagoon> Meeting Closed
+23:03 <@NeddySeagoon> Thank you everyone
diff --git a/2008/december2008.txt b/2008/december2008.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..139decd
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/december2008.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,448 @@
+(12/14/2008 12:45:27 PM) ***NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order - roll call
+(12/14/2008 12:45:33 PM) tsunam_: here
+(12/14/2008 12:45:34 PM) fmccor: Here
+(12/14/2008 12:45:38 PM) dmwaters: here
+(12/14/2008 12:46:02 PM) NeddySeagoon: Thats us quorate. We can skip the
+Intros .. on to item 2
+(12/14/2008 12:46:17 PM) NeddySeagoon: 2. Actions From the Last Meeting
+(12/14/2008 12:46:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam
+(12/14/2008 12:46:43 PM) tsunam_: no update unfortunately. I did send one check
+off last week for a replacement hard drive
+(12/14/2008 12:46:50 PM) tsunam_: I need to close the bug though
+(12/14/2008 12:47:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok. What about our EIN/IRS/Address
+update ?
+(12/14/2008 12:47:16 PM) tsunam_: I need to fix some errors in the banking pages
+for the last quarter as well
+(12/14/2008 12:47:25 PM) tsunam_: I need to get the EIN sent to myself as the
+fed should have it
+(12/14/2008 12:47:33 PM) tsunam_: then we can get the bank account all resolved
+(12/14/2008 12:47:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: OK. This year ?
+(12/14/2008 12:48:08 PM) tsunam_: certainly will try
+(12/14/2008 12:48:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: Stretch target 31 Dec. Backstop DoNM
+(12/14/2008 12:48:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: Certified Public Accountant -
+quantumsummers - we will come back to this
+(12/14/2008 12:49:08 PM) NeddySeagoon: Fix name and address on IPR/trademark
+documents, 31 Aug 2008 meeting authorised the $200 fees
+(12/14/2008 12:49:17 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, ^^
+(12/14/2008 12:49:44 PM) fmccor: We gave the lawyer a go, she is doing that and
+will bill us when complete.
+(12/14/2008 12:49:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: thanks
+(12/14/2008 12:50:18 PM) NeddySeagoon: Send friendly cease and desist emails to
+copyright infringers spotted on cafepress - quantumsummers we need tocome back
+to that
+(12/14/2008 12:50:35 PM) NeddySeagoon: 3 Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
+(12/14/2008 12:50:50 PM) NeddySeagoon: 217511 The Gentoo Store is Out of Date -
+musikc
+(12/14/2008 12:51:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: musikc isn't here - the store was updated
+the bug is open until long term care is addressed
+(12/14/2008 12:51:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: anyone know anything else ?
+(12/14/2008 12:51:58 PM) tsunam_: nope
+(12/14/2008 12:52:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: 56711 Retire: Renat Lumpau (rl03)
+(12/14/2008 12:52:11 PM) fmccor: No
+(12/14/2008 12:52:41 PM) fmccor: Isn't that one resolved? (56711)
+(12/14/2008 12:52:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: Renat has set his devaway, which has
+satisfied the undertakers meanwhile
+(12/14/2008 12:53:02 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, I guess thats a yes
+(12/14/2008 12:53:30 PM) NeddySeagoon: 245227 budget limit for infra repairs
+(12/14/2008 12:53:58 PM) NeddySeagoon: Someone was going to ask infra for an
+estimate.
+(12/14/2008 12:54:19 PM) dmwaters: i can't remember who that was
+(12/14/2008 12:54:20 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers I think
+(12/14/2008 12:54:49 PM) NeddySeagoon: I known that robbat2 was working on
+something like that
+(12/14/2008 12:55:29 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, is going to be busy when
+he shows up at 19:00 UTC
+(12/14/2008 12:55:33 PM) tsunam_: it is the holiday season so please consider
+that
+(12/14/2008 12:55:56 PM) tsunam_: thinks will take longer to do unfortunately
+(12/14/2008 12:55:59 PM) fmccor: This is probably the last official Gentoo
+action for a month. :)
+(12/14/2008 12:56:11 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, OK, I didn't realise that.
+(12/14/2008 12:56:25 PM) tsunam_: :P
+(12/14/2008 12:56:49 PM) fmccor: World's about to shut down for Saturnalia
+(12/14/2008 12:56:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: Its not holiday seaon in the UK until the
+schools finish
+(12/14/2008 12:57:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: 4 Treasurers Report for FY ending 30 June
+2008
+(12/14/2008 12:57:18 PM) tsunam_: well from thanksgiving until january people
+take vacations etc...
+(12/14/2008 12:57:39 PM) tsunam_: I've updated through 2007. But need to fix the
+4th quarter to begin the 2008
+(12/14/2008 12:57:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, Thanks for the education :)
+(12/14/2008 12:58:11 PM) tsunam_: 2008 year, not fiscal
+(12/14/2008 12:58:14 PM) tsunam_: should clarify
+(12/14/2008 12:58:21 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, You have it half done then
+(12/14/2008 12:58:26 PM) tsunam_: correct
+(12/14/2008 12:58:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: progress :)
+(12/14/2008 12:59:06 PM) NeddySeagoon: 5. Foundation Knowledge Management Needs
+was another one for quantumsummers
+(12/14/2008 12:59:38 PM) ***quantumsummers greets the trustees, and is caught up
+(12/14/2008 12:59:55 PM) quantumsummers: So regarding #5
+(12/14/2008 12:59:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: 6. Actions From Previous Meetings on hold
+for one or more actions above I don't think there is any change, do I need to
+paste them from the agenda
+(12/14/2008 01:00:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, there was a unamous vote
+to start early
+(12/14/2008 01:00:57 PM) quantumsummers: indeed, I'm happy to see everyone is
+here :)
+(12/14/2008 01:01:00 PM) quantumsummers: I have a membership app I can put up
+anytime
+(12/14/2008 01:01:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: unamous == all the trustees agreed
+(12/14/2008 01:01:25 PM) tsunam_: quantumsummers: oh?
+(12/14/2008 01:01:29 PM) quantumsummers: also pretty much finished with the doc
+repo
+(12/14/2008 01:01:43 PM) quantumsummers: unamous is code for everyone :D
+(12/14/2008 01:02:03 PM) fmccor: It's the British spelling
+(12/14/2008 01:02:11 PM) NeddySeagoon: hehe
+(12/14/2008 01:02:21 PM) quantumsummers: _nice_
+(12/14/2008 01:02:25 PM) quantumsummers: :)
+(12/14/2008 01:02:51 PM) quantumsummers: also wrote a little wiki with rev
+control on it if we wanted to doc internal prodecures
+(12/14/2008 01:02:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: shall we get your stuff at the end
+quantumsummers ? You missed a few other things too
+(12/14/2008 01:03:19 PM) quantumsummers: also working on beacon integration
+(12/14/2008 01:03:34 PM) quantumsummers: hmm, up to you guys
+(12/14/2008 01:03:53 PM) quantumsummers: I can, no prob
+(12/14/2008 01:03:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: We will come back to your stuff
+(12/14/2008 01:04:01 PM) quantumsummers: re: NeddySeagoon ^^
+(12/14/2008 01:04:03 PM) quantumsummers: ok
+(12/14/2008 01:04:09 PM) NeddySeagoon: 6. Actions From Previous Meetings on hold
+for one or more actions above I don't think there is any change, do I need to
+paste them from the agenda
+(12/14/2008 01:04:28 PM) fmccor: No. No changes.
+(12/14/2008 01:04:39 PM) NeddySeagoon: dmwaters, tsunam_ ?
+(12/14/2008 01:04:46 PM) dmwaters: nope
+(12/14/2008 01:05:04 PM) tsunam_: nope no changes
+(12/14/2008 01:05:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, ?
+(12/14/2008 01:05:09 PM) NeddySeagoon: thanks
+(12/14/2008 01:05:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: 7. Membership Applications can we deal
+will developers as a block ?
+(12/14/2008 01:05:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: *
+(12/14/2008 01:05:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: # Membership Applications -
+(12/14/2008 01:06:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: * mpagano
+(12/14/2008 01:06:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: * ali_bush
+(12/14/2008 01:06:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: * rich0
+(12/14/2008 01:06:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: * ulm
+(12/14/2008 01:06:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: * Ford_Prefect
+(12/14/2008 01:06:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: * quantumsummers
+(12/14/2008 01:06:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: * bluebird
+(12/14/2008 01:06:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: * musikc
+(12/14/2008 01:06:30 PM) fmccor: Yes to all for me.
+(12/14/2008 01:06:36 PM) dmwaters: yes to all
+(12/14/2008 01:06:48 PM) quantumsummers: recorded
+(12/14/2008 01:06:49 PM) NeddySeagoon: yes to all from me
+(12/14/2008 01:07:00 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, ?
+(12/14/2008 01:07:17 PM) tsunam_: for all those agreed
+(12/14/2008 01:07:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: Thanks
+(12/14/2008 01:07:42 PM) NeddySeagoon: Community Members - One at a time
+(12/14/2008 01:07:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: Comprookie2000
+(12/14/2008 01:08:14 PM) fmccor: This would be for the publicity?
+(12/14/2008 01:08:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: yes
+(12/14/2008 01:08:34 PM) fmccor: He plans to keep doing it?
+(12/14/2008 01:09:17 PM) fmccor: If so, I think that is a service to the
+community and would support him.
+(12/14/2008 01:09:26 PM) ***quantumsummers wonders about an official g.o podcast
+(12/14/2008 01:09:33 PM) quantumsummers: :P
+(12/14/2008 01:10:31 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, he shows no signs of giving up.
+I was his first soon after we took office. drobbins and bonsaikitten are the
+most recent this month
+(12/14/2008 01:10:37 PM) tsunam_: k
+(12/14/2008 01:10:44 PM) ***quantumsummers thinks NeddySeagoon's accent might be
+good
+(12/14/2008 01:11:00 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, Podcast 18 is me
+(12/14/2008 01:11:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: dmwaters, ?
+(12/14/2008 01:11:27 PM) quantumsummers: I listened to it :) good stuff
+(12/14/2008 01:11:39 PM) dmwaters: can someone fill me in as to what he does?
+(12/14/2008 01:11:51 PM) quantumsummers: nice gentoo-centric podcast
+(12/14/2008 01:11:51 PM) ***dmwaters doesn't remember this one
+(12/14/2008 01:12:00 PM) tsunam_: k
+(12/14/2008 01:12:15 PM) quantumsummers: not deeply technical, but nice
+(12/14/2008 01:12:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: he makes podcasts of interviews (voice)
+with Gentoo contributors
+(12/14/2008 01:12:45 PM) dmwaters: i'll say yes then
+(12/14/2008 01:12:55 PM) tsunam_: I have no problem with a yes
+(12/14/2008 01:13:03 PM) NeddySeagoon: He has done me, vapier, drobbins,
+bonsaikitten and others.
+(12/14/2008 01:13:11 PM) ***quantumsummers :)
+(12/14/2008 01:13:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: Its good publicity
+(12/14/2008 01:13:26 PM) quantumsummers: yes
+(12/14/2008 01:13:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: I'm a yes too
+fmccor fmccor|work
+(12/14/2008 01:13:33 PM) quantumsummers: fmccor?
+(12/14/2008 01:13:45 PM) fmccor: Oh, I thought I said yes. Yes.
+(12/14/2008 01:13:55 PM) quantumsummers: unanimous
+(12/14/2008 01:14:03 PM) NeddySeagoon: Next up WEIRDEDOUT
+(12/14/2008 01:14:14 PM) fmccor: Who is that?
+(12/14/2008 01:14:31 PM) tsunam_: NeddySeagoon: I think you should just explain
+who they are when you announce
+(12/14/2008 01:14:46 PM) quantumsummers: he's is involved in the podcast
+(12/14/2008 01:14:53 PM) NeddySeagoon: hes been in a podcast or two but other
+than that I only know hhis application
+(12/14/2008 01:14:54 PM) tsunam_: the same one?
+(12/14/2008 01:15:22 PM) quantumsummers: yes
+(12/14/2008 01:15:26 PM) tsunam_: k
+(12/14/2008 01:15:30 PM) NeddySeagoon: Nope ... let me reread his application
+(12/14/2008 01:16:37 PM) tsunam_: forum helper from what he said, system admin
+interview for linux crazy
+(12/14/2008 01:16:52 PM) tsunam_: helps out in times on the #gentoo-au channel
+(12/14/2008 01:18:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: he has 22 posts on forums.gentoo.org
+(12/14/2008 01:18:14 PM) tsunam_: =/
+(12/14/2008 01:18:17 PM) tsunam_: that's not many
+(12/14/2008 01:18:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: I'm never in -au
+(12/14/2008 01:18:29 PM) tsunam_: nor am I
+(12/14/2008 01:18:42 PM) dmwaters: doesn't sound real active to me
+(12/14/2008 01:18:42 PM) NeddySeagoon: Should we defer this one ?
+(12/14/2008 01:19:01 PM) fmccor: Yes, I'd like him to come to the next meeting
+and talk to us.
+(12/14/2008 01:19:10 PM) tsunam_: i would concur
+(12/14/2008 01:19:12 PM) dmwaters: i agree with ferris
+(12/14/2008 01:19:29 PM) NeddySeagoon: OK - defeered
+(12/14/2008 01:19:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: (sp) :(
+(12/14/2008 01:19:50 PM) tsunam_: oh well
+(12/14/2008 01:20:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: Next up Philantrop
+(12/14/2008 01:20:31 PM) fmccor: He is here for questions, or was.
+(12/14/2008 01:21:09 PM) fmccor: My position is known. Yes
+(12/14/2008 01:21:21 PM) tsunam_: My position is known as well..I will explain
+though
+(12/14/2008 01:21:25 PM) dmwaters: my vote is yes also.
+(12/14/2008 01:21:53 PM) tsunam_: I still maintain that anyone who was a member
+of Gentoo who was removed under not ideal circumstances should not be a member
+of the foundation, and if they were, that they should be removed from that as
+well
+(12/14/2008 01:21:58 PM) tsunam_: so my vote is no
+(12/14/2008 01:22:35 PM) tsunam_: but I will likely be overruled by majority
+vote so
+(12/14/2008 01:22:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, nobody should be punished for
+the same thing twice.
+(12/14/2008 01:22:51 PM) tsunam_: Its not punishing a second time
+(12/14/2008 01:22:53 PM) tsunam_: in my opinion
+(12/14/2008 01:23:11 PM) tsunam_: the intial setup for the foundation was that
+you had to be a developer to become one
+(12/14/2008 01:23:16 PM) tsunam_: we've opened that up now
+(12/14/2008 01:23:23 PM) NeddySeagoon: Philantrop, continues to work for the
+aims of the Foundation
+(12/14/2008 01:23:36 PM) fmccor: Still, it looks to me that right now he is
+supporting Gentoo pretty actively.
+(12/14/2008 01:23:43 PM) tsunam_: he continues to work on improving a
+alternative package manager that is well liked I agree with that
+(12/14/2008 01:24:24 PM) dmwaters: well, way i see it is this, he's got a lot to
+offer gentoo, so why not give him the chance. the foundation has more to think
+about then the developer community at worst if there is a problem we can
+remove his membership.
+(12/14/2008 01:24:29 PM) tsunam_: Yes its one of the aims of the foundation
+(12/14/2008 01:24:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: and the things that were shared on the
+alias ?
+(12/14/2008 01:24:57 PM) tsunam_: my opinion will not change on this one guys
+(12/14/2008 01:25:29 PM) NeddySeagoon: I'll stop trying then
+(12/14/2008 01:25:30 PM) tsunam_: I've also voiced there are others who i've
+considered friends who should be removed under the same policy I mentioned. Its
+a broad stroke that doesn't just affect a single person
+(12/14/2008 01:25:55 PM) tsunam_: so far I see 2 for and 1 against
+(12/14/2008 01:26:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: This makes life difficult for me as I had
+planned to abstain. I will declare my interest
+(12/14/2008 01:27:17 PM) tsunam_: NeddySeagoon: when have I ever made your life
+easy
+(12/14/2008 01:27:40 PM) fmccor: An abstain would make it I *think* 2.5 - 1.5,
+but I am not sure.
+(12/14/2008 01:27:47 PM) NeddySeagoon: I was one of several that complained to
+council about Philantrop (I know of at least one other)
+(12/14/2008 01:28:49 PM) NeddySeagoon: I cannot honestly say that that would not
+be colouring my vote. I abstain
+(12/14/2008 01:29:23 PM) NeddySeagoon: but I recognise that Philantrop satisfies
+the membership requirements
+(12/14/2008 01:30:14 PM) tsunam_: so we've recieved a yes from deedra, fmccor.
+No from tsunam. Abstain from NeddySeagoon
+(12/14/2008 01:30:23 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, correct
+(12/14/2008 01:30:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: I have no idea where that leaves
+Philantrops' membership
+(12/14/2008 01:31:07 PM) tsunam_: its still a majority for yes
+(12/14/2008 01:31:19 PM) fmccor: Well, an abstain is not a no, so it can't count
+as one.
+(12/14/2008 01:31:32 PM) fmccor: I think it counts as .5/.5 split
+(12/14/2008 01:31:40 PM) tsunam_: either way see above
+(12/14/2008 01:31:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: Well, that makes the arithmetic easy
+(12/14/2008 01:31:56 PM) tsunam_: lol
+(12/14/2008 01:32:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: Philantrop, is a foundation member
+(12/14/2008 01:32:19 PM) quantumsummers: approved.
+(12/14/2008 01:32:24 PM) Philantrop: Thanks, guys!
+(12/14/2008 01:32:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: only just :)
+(12/14/2008 01:32:59 PM) tsunam_: next?
+(12/14/2008 01:33:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: Lets go back to the things quantumsummers
+missed
+(12/14/2008 01:33:19 PM) fmccor: So we've approved everyone but one, and we
+don't have enough information there.
+(12/14/2008 01:33:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: 2 Certified Public Accountant -
+quantumsummers
+(12/14/2008 01:33:31 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, yes
+(12/14/2008 01:33:46 PM) quantumsummers: I have 2 CPAs available
+(12/14/2008 01:34:11 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, pro bono ?
+(12/14/2008 01:34:41 PM) quantumsummers: only one for free at this time, still
+working on a deal with the other
+(12/14/2008 01:35:03 PM) quantumsummers: 50/50 chance there
+(12/14/2008 01:35:11 PM) NeddySeagoon: do you have all the finance data you need
+from tsunam_ ?
+(12/14/2008 01:35:44 PM) quantumsummers: no, I basically need bank & paypal, etc
+data
+(12/14/2008 01:35:53 PM) quantumsummers: for this year
+(12/14/2008 01:36:03 PM) tsunam_: k
+(12/14/2008 01:36:04 PM) quantumsummers: & past, which is available
+(12/14/2008 01:36:20 PM) tsunam_: will try and get current paypal done
+(12/14/2008 01:36:30 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, thanks
+(12/14/2008 01:36:40 PM) quantumsummers: they are going to want to see any
+available data from the past few years
+(12/14/2008 01:37:05 PM) quantumsummers: the goal here is to have a complete
+picture
+(12/14/2008 01:37:10 PM) tsunam_: that's quite honestly paypal only
+(12/14/2008 01:37:17 PM) quantumsummers: perfect
+(12/14/2008 01:37:33 PM) quantumsummers: a spreadsheet or csv will be ideal
+(12/14/2008 01:37:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, tsunam_ you two can sort
+this out off line ?
+(12/14/2008 01:37:54 PM) quantumsummers: tsunam_: email?
+(12/14/2008 01:38:13 PM) ***NeddySeagoon bets they mean Excell
+(12/14/2008 01:38:19 PM) quantumsummers: NO
+(12/14/2008 01:38:26 PM) tsunam_: sure
+(12/14/2008 01:38:26 PM) fmccor: :)
+(12/14/2008 01:38:27 PM) quantumsummers: :)
+(12/14/2008 01:38:34 PM) quantumsummers: just a csv is fine
+(12/14/2008 01:38:43 PM) quantumsummers: whatever is the easiest, really
+(12/14/2008 01:38:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: Nice to be wrong on that one
+(12/14/2008 01:38:47 PM) tsunam_: will work out the details with quantumsummers
+(12/14/2008 01:38:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(12/14/2008 01:38:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: Moving on
+(12/14/2008 01:38:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: Send friendly cease and desist emails to
+copyright infringers spotted on cafepress - quantumsummers
+fmccor fmccor|work
+(12/14/2008 01:40:25 PM) ***quantumsummers runs away as he has not accomplished
+the task. fmccor would you happen to have some template to work from. my
+legalese isn't so great & I am trying to be too diplomatic perhaps
+(12/14/2008 01:40:48 PM) quantumsummers: I do have a long list of "offenders"
+(12/14/2008 01:40:59 PM) ***quantumsummers is sorry
+(12/14/2008 01:41:15 PM) quantumsummers: work has been a bit crazy lately
+(12/14/2008 01:41:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, we don't want to come
+over all heavy handed and legal. Just a simple here are our trademarks, please
+don't do it any more
+(12/14/2008 01:41:36 PM) tsunam_: no worries quantumsummers, its good work is
+crazy
+(12/14/2008 01:41:41 PM) ***quantumsummers is ready for his lashes
+(12/14/2008 01:41:50 PM) quantumsummers: :)
+(12/14/2008 01:42:06 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, I don't have a template, but
+like what NeddySeagoon said works just fine.
+(12/14/2008 01:42:18 PM) quantumsummers: ok
+(12/14/2008 01:42:23 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, the emphasis is on the
+friendly
+(12/14/2008 01:42:30 PM) quantumsummers: I understand
+(12/14/2008 01:42:41 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, when can you do it by ?
+(12/14/2008 01:43:07 PM) fmccor: Although it is "please don't do it without
+permission." For all I know, we'd support them if they would ask.
+(12/14/2008 01:43:25 PM) quantumsummers: diplomacy is a good thing, I _will_
+write it after the meeting & send it to you for final approval. Note, it will
+likely be short.
+(12/14/2008 01:43:29 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, Competing against us in the USA ?
+(12/14/2008 01:43:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: Short is good
+(12/14/2008 01:44:17 PM) NeddySeagoon: 5. Foundation Knowledge Management Needs
+quantumsummers did you finish with this ?
+(12/14/2008 01:44:23 PM) fmccor: Selling things? I'd balance the publicity and
+good will with the income, and probably grant permission.
+(12/14/2008 01:44:49 PM) quantumsummers: please ask permission so we can keep
+track of who's using our IP
+(12/14/2008 01:45:04 PM) quantumsummers: as we need to track these things
+(12/14/2008 01:45:17 PM) quantumsummers: (donations welcome :) )
+(12/14/2008 01:45:20 PM) fmccor: Yes, and so that we don't lose it. We have to
+write the letter at least.
+(12/14/2008 01:45:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, stop while you negiotiate
+with us
+(12/14/2008 01:45:23 PM) quantumsummers: something like that^^
+(12/14/2008 01:45:54 PM) quantumsummers: perfect
+(12/14/2008 01:46:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: 5. Foundation Knowledge Management Needs
+quantumsummers did you finish with this ?
+(12/14/2008 01:46:46 PM) quantumsummers: ok, regarding knowledge management,
+yes, do you guys want me to put this up somewhere private?
+(12/14/2008 01:47:07 PM) quantumsummers: ssl that is
+(12/14/2008 01:47:13 PM) quantumsummers: login only
+(12/14/2008 01:47:18 PM) NeddySeagoon: If you have a writeup, put it on the
+trustees@ alias
+(12/14/2008 01:47:30 PM) quantumsummers: no, I meant the apps
+(12/14/2008 01:47:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, Yes. Much of the content
+cannot be public
+(12/14/2008 01:48:09 PM) quantumsummers: like the membership app, I can put that
+up on monday or tues
+(12/14/2008 01:48:19 PM) quantumsummers: just for us
+(12/14/2008 01:48:29 PM) quantumsummers: __not __ public
+(12/14/2008 01:48:50 PM) quantumsummers: we can make any data public you want
+(12/14/2008 01:48:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok - then we can have a play with it.
+Have you spoken with infra ?
+(12/14/2008 01:49:32 PM) NeddySeagoon: It would be good if they host it
+(12/14/2008 01:49:32 PM) quantumsummers: I haven't spoken with infra lately
+about this, there was some reluctance to run a django stack
+(12/14/2008 01:50:08 PM) quantumsummers: worse case, I can stick it on an IP,
+with no dns
+(12/14/2008 01:50:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: Talk to them before you put it up.
+(12/14/2008 01:50:13 PM) quantumsummers: ok
+(12/14/2008 01:50:15 PM) quantumsummers: :)
+(12/14/2008 01:50:41 PM) NeddySeagoon: For continuity, it needs to be on
+gentoo -infra
+(12/14/2008 01:50:45 PM) quantumsummers: technically its running now, but on a
+private lan
+(12/14/2008 01:50:56 PM) quantumsummers: oh, I agree completely
+(12/14/2008 01:51:17 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, any more on your bits ?
+(12/14/2008 01:51:20 PM) quantumsummers: its just not "production" tested
+(12/14/2008 01:51:34 PM) quantumsummers: not really NeddySeagoon
+(12/14/2008 01:51:35 PM) tsunam_: that is to be expected
+(12/14/2008 01:51:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: 8. # Any other business
+(12/14/2008 01:52:03 PM) NeddySeagoon: I have one item
+(12/14/2008 01:52:18 PM) NeddySeagoon: ... two items
+(12/14/2008 01:52:20 PM) fmccor: Yes, we should not forget to autovoice the new
+members.
+(12/14/2008 01:52:31 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, yep
+(12/14/2008 01:53:18 PM) NeddySeagoon: DoNM the first Sunday after the 2nd
+Thursday of the month is 11 Jan 2009 at 19:00
+(12/14/2008 01:53:25 PM) tsunam_: k
+(12/14/2008 01:53:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: Is that ok ?
+(12/14/2008 01:53:29 PM) tsunam_: works for me
+(12/14/2008 01:53:32 PM) quantumsummers: we left dang & jef_fro off the list of
+devs applying for membership
+(12/14/2008 01:53:43 PM) fmccor: Is that after the e.V. meeting?
+(12/14/2008 01:53:50 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, they are already members
+(12/14/2008 01:53:54 PM) quantumsummers: oops
+(12/14/2008 01:53:58 PM) quantumsummers: :D
+(12/14/2008 01:54:02 PM) fmccor: I think it is on the 9th, but not sure.
+(12/14/2008 01:54:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, its our tradidional sunday after
+the Council meeting
+(12/14/2008 01:55:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: Lets make it 11th for now. We can find
+out about the e.V. meeting and move ours if we need to
+(12/14/2008 01:56:00 PM) fmccor: Just noting that our next meeting should be
+after theirs.
+(12/14/2008 01:56:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: The other item I have is setting of a
+recording date. I propose the Date of our Next meeting
+(12/14/2008 01:56:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, yep that would be good but we
+don't know when that is just now
+(12/14/2008 01:57:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: The recording date needs a vote.
+(12/14/2008 01:57:28 PM) tsunam_: the 11 is fine for me. Lets assume that for
+now
+(12/14/2008 01:57:33 PM) fmccor: Yes
+(12/14/2008 01:57:36 PM) NeddySeagoon: Members admitted after that date do not
+get to stand or vote in the March 2009 election
+(12/14/2008 01:57:45 PM) dmwaters: yes
+(12/14/2008 01:57:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: yes from me too
+(12/14/2008 01:58:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, the recording date ?
+(12/14/2008 01:58:42 PM) NeddySeagoon: Its like buying shares ex-dividend :)
+(12/14/2008 01:58:50 PM) NeddySeagoon: stock*
+(12/14/2008 01:58:57 PM) tsunam_: lol
+(12/14/2008 01:59:18 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, are you good with the date ?
+(12/14/2008 01:59:26 PM) tsunam_: yep
+(12/14/2008 01:59:30 PM) NeddySeagoon: thanks
+(12/14/2008 01:59:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: dmwaters, Any other business ?
+(12/14/2008 01:59:50 PM) dmwaters: NeddySeagoon: nope
+(12/14/2008 02:00:01 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, anything ?
+(12/14/2008 02:00:08 PM) fmccor: Just the autovoice
+(12/14/2008 02:00:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(12/14/2008 02:00:29 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam_, anything else ?
+(12/14/2008 02:00:35 PM) tsunam_: nope
+(12/14/2008 02:00:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: 9. Open floor
+(12/14/2008 02:00:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: Anyone at all for any more
+(12/14/2008 02:01:42 PM) quantumsummers: that was fast :)
+(12/14/2008 02:01:58 PM) dmwaters: and, i need to go
+(12/14/2008 02:02:00 PM) fmccor: As it should ne. :)
+(12/14/2008 02:02:03 PM) fmccor: ^ne^be
+(12/14/2008 02:02:06 PM) ***NeddySeagoon declares the meeting closed
+(12/14/2008 02:02:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: Thanks everyone \ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/2008/july08.txt b/2008/july08.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..4e53910
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/july08.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,757 @@
+20:00 * NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order
+20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> whos here
+20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, tgall_foo tsunam wltjr ??
+20:00 <@tsunam> hmm
+20:01 <@fmccor> Here.
+20:01 <@tsunam> my hmm = here =)
+20:01 <@NeddySeagoon> Thats 3 of us ... we have a quorum so lets start
+20:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Actions From the Last Meeting - We still have section 5 to review ... I suggest we can do the before the next meeting ang get the bylaws up for adoption then
+20:03 <@NeddySeagoon> Sorry, that should have been Bylaws
+20:03 <@fmccor> Please let's do.
+20:03 -!- musikc [n=musikc@gentoo/developer/musikc] has joined #gentoo-trustees
+20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Can we set a meeting for section 5 next Sunday, if its not resolved in email by then ?
+20:04 <@fmccor> Yes, but resolution by email sounds like a winner if we can.
+20:05 <@NeddySeagoon> Its not contentious, I'll post my thoughts in the next day or so
+20:05 <@NeddySeagoon> Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam ... your turn
+20:05 * wltjr is doing yard work will be in and out
+20:05 <@tsunam> Well as we've been discussing about the banking. There's a few options
+20:05 -!- mpagano [n=mpagano@gentoo/developer/mpagano] has joined #gentoo-trustees
+20:06 <@tsunam> one of which is related to where our outside of the NM address is
+20:06 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, a public statement for the record would be good
+20:06 <@tsunam> and the banks there
+20:06 <@tsunam> or a bank in NM.
+20:06 <@tsunam> problem is that most require you to be in person to sign paperwork
+20:06 <@tsunam> Which all seems silly to me as i've opened quite a few accounts online only...
+20:06 <@NeddySeagoon> personal <> company
+20:07 <@tsunam> which brought up a discussion about moving the foundation for making it easier to deal with
+20:07 * fmccor thought we were on track with Wells Fargo?
+20:07 <@tsunam> that seems the most likely place as it has a wide range of offices
+20:07 <@tsunam> that quite a few of us could go to a local office and sign the paperwork
+20:08 <@NeddySeagoon> brb
+20:08 <@tsunam> I also made a minor update to the bank nfp documentation but realized the work I did on the quarterly reports was wrong so I'm having to redo them ~_~
+20:08 <@fmccor> I thought wltjr had it set up to do Wells Fargo by fax --- I sent him some paperwork based on that.
+20:09 <@tsunam> that'd be up to the man doing yardwork if that's the case
+20:09 <@tsunam> once its established can have grant send the check to them for deposit...
+20:09 <@tsunam> assuming its still good
+20:10 <@fmccor> He needs to shut off his lawn mower, or whatever, and let us know. :)
+20:11 <@NeddySeagoon> back
+20:11 <@fmccor> I know we discussed it last Wednesday; you and Tom and William and I.
+20:11 <@tsunam> so that's the current state
+20:11 <@tsunam> fmccor: i was only partially here as I discussed then due to working at work :-P
+20:11 <@fmccor> And Roy, too.
+20:12 <@NeddySeagoon> I have a copy of my DL for wltjr to collect but its designed to be copy proof, so its not a good copy
+20:13 <@fmccor> I thought wltjr was collecting drivers licenses and consent forms, so I sent all that to him. He should have received it yesterday (or perhaps tomorrow).
+20:14 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, me too - whats a consent form, I don't recall seeing that
+20:14 <@fmccor> Mine copied fine; I noticed it was a pretty good photograph, too, so I'll try to scan it for a "mug shot"
+20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> My UK one does not have a photo
+20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> Next
+20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> Trustees and Foundation Article For the GMN - NeddySeagoon
+20:15 <@fmccor> There were a couple emails from the bank to all of us; one of them had a pdf form attached. I don't know if William needs those or not, so I just signed it a bunch of places and sent it on.
+20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> I posted my section
+20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> I missed that PDF but I still have the emails
+20:16 <@fmccor> I planned to do mine, but got distracted by some on-going drama.
+20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^
+20:16 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, We need the form from Tom (as secretary) and one other officer. I don't know if he needs any others or not.
+20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, & tgall_foo
+20:17 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: the form or the article?
+20:17 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, both I suppose :) sorry for the mixup
+20:17 <@fmccor> I'll do my part of the article tomorrow if things otherwise stay calm.
+20:17 <@tsunam> lol
+20:17 <@fmccor> Bah.
+20:18 <@tsunam> I need to review the emails myself
+20:19 <@fmccor> tgall_foo 's laptop seems not to be starting. :)
+20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm proposing that I'm not a signatory to cheques ... it would be too complicated
+20:19 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: *nods*
+20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, maybe he ran over it with the lawnmower
+20:19 <@fmccor> I filled out the box, but I don't need to be a signatory.
+20:20 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, what about the GMN special ?
+20:20 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: the sample you posted. I have no issued doing one for myself
+20:20 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks
+20:21 <@NeddySeagoon> The hard bit is working oout what we agree on for a going forward joint statement
+20:21 * fmccor is easy there.
+20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm happy to put the article togther from everyones inputs
+20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more for actions from the last meeting ?
+20:23 <@fmccor> Yes, I had an assignment.
+20:23 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I must have missed that ... carry on
+20:24 <@fmccor> We are looking to put together a licensing agreement for intrenational use when people like pva or our Czech correspondent wish to sell Gentoo branded T-shirts or whatever.
+20:24 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yes
+20:24 <@fmccor> I spoke with Renat and he did put me in contact with his friend who did our Trademark stuff.
+20:25 <@NeddySeagoon> the pro-bono group ?
+20:25 <@fmccor> I'm in contact with her, but she is out of the office until about the 22nd of this month.
+20:25 <@NeddySeagoon> So nothing will happen until then
+20:26 <@fmccor> We'll talk then, and if that does not work out, Renat has a couple other contacts, too (one where he is currently interning, and one in Boston where he was interning earlier this summer).
+20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> OK, on to Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
+20:26 <@fmccor> Wait, there's more
+20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> ok ...
+20:27 <@fmccor> I think we want to transfer the Trademark to the Foundation from Gentoo-whatever-Daniel-originally-called-it (maybe just a technicality --- I need to ask)
+20:27 <@fmccor> If we do, I think that's just filling out a form and sending someone $100.
+20:27 <@tsunam> Gentoo Technologies Inc
+20:28 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I thought that was already done
+20:28 <@fmccor> At least, that's what lawyer Tanda Neustein(?) told Renat.
+20:29 <@fmccor> Apparently not. I have to make sure when she is back in her office.
+20:29 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I'll rummage my emails after the meeting
+20:29 <@fmccor> A couple weeks ago or a bit less, two emails from rl03 to the trustees@
+20:30 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+20:30 <@fmccor> Which were basically cover notes for emails from Tanda to him.
+20:30 * fmccor is done now. :)
+20:30 <@NeddySeagoon> OK, on to Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
+20:31 <@NeddySeagoon> 177966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities what do we have to do to kill this one ?
+20:33 <@NeddySeagoon> Do we put it on hold until the Bylaws are done and we have some idea of where the Foundation is headed ?
+20:33 <@tsunam> I would say yes
+20:33 <@tsunam> as the new bylawys should clear up a lot
+20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> ok I'll make a note in the agenda
+20:34 <@fmccor> OK. I don't even know quite what the bug is referring to.
+20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> 217511 The Gentoo Store is Out of Date we still need to fix our own store
+20:35 <@NeddySeagoon> The licencing agreement won't do that
+20:35 <@fmccor> No, it just lets other people sell Gentoo-branded things.
+20:36 <@NeddySeagoon> There are 3 options ... close the strore, run it ourselves or appoint some officers (a store project) to do it. Thoughts ?
+20:37 * musikc coughs and mutters something about have PR assist
+20:37 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, are you volunteering ?
+20:37 <@fmccor> There's a 4th option, sounds like a good one to me.
+20:38 < musikc> id say the trustees would clearly still address the money aspect, but regarding the largest complaint of keeping the store up to date, that could easily and quite logically be delegated to PR as it could be viewed as a public facing entity.
+20:38 < musikc> and id need to confer with dberkholz first, just an idea at present ;)
+20:39 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, thats ok if members of PR became officers of the Foundation ... I don't have a problem with that
+20:39 <@tsunam> wouldn't need to be a developer, could just be staff and someone recruited for running said store
+20:39 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, exactly
+20:40 < musikc> doesnt require tree access iirc so any staffer or ebuild dev, wouldnt matter. or are you saying someone without a gentoo email address do it?
+20:40 <@NeddySeagoon> They don't even need to be Foundation members
+20:40 <@fmccor> It makes sense for the Foundation to designate a PR position; doens't have to be an officer.
+20:40 < musikc> id say if an external party would be interested, in line with my suggestion and thinking, bring them in to PR to perform such a task
+20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, that works too ... they do not need a @g.o email
+20:41 < musikc> the email address makes it easy for anyone to know how to contact them, makes it a "no brainer"
+20:41 <@fmccor> True.
+20:41 < musikc> and there are minimal requirements to become a staffer :)
+20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> We could recruit someone to staff then
+20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> snap*
+20:42 < musikc> 1) find a void; 2) propose how to fill it; 3) get someone to vouch for you so you can join :)
+20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, yep
+20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> Maybe put an Ad in situations vacant in the GMN
+20:42 < musikc> if you are interested in the notion of PR assisting with keeping the store up to date, id be happy to start dialog with donnie to assess his interest level and gain his thoughts on the matter
+20:43 <@fmccor> I'd support it.
+20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, It seems a logical step, I support it
+20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^ you ok with that ?
+20:43 <@tsunam> yep
+20:43 <@fmccor> I think whoever did it would be "dual staff" --- Gentoo PR staff and Foundation staff.
+20:43 <@fmccor> But we are already doing that. :)
+20:43 < musikc> ok, i'll fire off an email to find a mutally convenient time to discuss the idea more indepth with donnie. im PR staff, he is the lead so i'd want his buy in. ;)
+20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, You have an action from the meeting then
+20:44 < musikc> np
+20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks
+20:44 <@fmccor> musikc, Thanks.
+20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Its your solo now ... Treasurers Report for FY ending 30 June 2008
+20:45 <@tsunam> We spent next to no money and have over 80 people donate to Gentoo this year. WE NEED to set a budget for spending money. At least one new server a year for infra as they are still using p3's as core infra boxes
+20:46 <@tsunam> as you're aware some of them are really showing age, such as the forums frontend box
+20:46 <@tsunam> Taking in money without really spending any is not a benefit to anyone
+20:46 < antarus> ummm
+20:46 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, A budget will cover both income and expendature
+20:46 < antarus> to be fair, there is nothing wrong with a pIII for some services
+20:46 < antarus> aside from power usage
+20:46 < antarus> an dheat
+20:47 <@tsunam> There's a few outstanding repayments as I need to get with paypal and deal with their again new requirements to send money
+20:47 <@tsunam> antarus: a 6 year old box is a problem
+20:47 <@tsunam> the likelyhood of failure grows as it goes on
+20:48 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, do you have a balance sheet that should be published ?
+20:48 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: as i said before the quarterly reports are being worked on currently I made a mistake on a fairly early one that needs to be corrected and reflected in the rest =/
+20:49 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, bummer. Should we defer this to the next meeting ?
+20:49 <@tsunam> Aye
+20:49 <@tsunam> I should hopefully have them all corrected an updated for the last 3 years by then ~_`
+20:50 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, You should lead setting a budget too. IS there time before the next meeting ?
+20:50 <@NeddySeagoon> Notice lead ... not do it all
+20:50 <@tsunam> weekends work best for me, or later pst evenings
+20:50 <@wltjr> sry, this time is very hard for me on Sundays
+20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, lets discuss meeting times under AOB
+20:51 <@tsunam> I basically need to talk with a few of the leads where money would be allocated (infra, pr) being two of the main to discuss it
+20:51 <@wltjr> wrt to bank account I have to get in touch with Wells Fargo to inquire about Roy being outside the US
+20:51 <@wltjr> they seem to want all on file to be on bank account and we likely have some issues there
+20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, did you get my encrypted email ?
+20:52 <@fmccor> wltjr, You should have received some paperwork from me. If not, then tomorrow, I think.
+20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> moving on, whe touched on this last meeting Trustees and Councillors - Potential Conflict of Interest
+20:54 <@fmccor> Everyone I mentioned it to suggested that doing both was a bad idea.
+20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> The two bodies are supposed to be separate ... serving on both breaks the separation.
+20:55 <@fmccor> I don't know if there's an actual conflict or not, but I suggest we just not do it.
+20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, wltjr ^^
+20:55 <@tsunam> I won't serve on both ever so =)
+20:56 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes I got your email, but not sure I was able to de-crypt
+20:56 <@NeddySeagoon> Nor me
+20:56 <@wltjr> fmccor: nothing from you in mail yet, big city so takes an extra day sometimes
+20:56 <@NeddySeagoon> Do we need something in the bylaws about it ?
+20:56 <@tsunam> In this case I would believe so
+20:56 <@wltjr> I see less of a conflict, more taking on to many high level positions, major voids if we lose 1
+20:56 <@NeddySeagoon> We won't always be the trustees
+20:57 <@fmccor> Perhaps. It would be one line in the qualifications for trustees.
+20:57 <@tsunam> As a trustee you should not serve on any other governing body of the Gentoo organization
+20:57 <@wltjr> but if the trustees and counsel work together, as proper checks and balances, they should not share any people
+20:57 <@tsunam> would be a short snippet
+20:57 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats a part of the isse
+20:57 <@wltjr> tsunam: agreed
+20:57 <@wltjr> maybe change should, to cannot
+20:58 <@NeddySeagoon> Do we need a vote ? I'll propose some words for Section 5 of the bylaws
+20:58 <@wltjr> FYI we need bylaws for bank account
+20:58 <@wltjr> it's part of the paperwork they want to see
+20:58 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we are proposing adoption at the nect meeting
+20:58 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: if you want I think we are all in agreement, but can't hurt to vote if you wish :)
+20:58 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+20:59 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: cool, shouldn't be much left to do, gives me time to find out about international aspects of the bank account
+20:59 <@wltjr> would suck if because of banking reasons we have to restrict officers or board members to US only
+20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion to add words to the bylaws that no individual can serve on the council and as a trustee concurrently
+20:59 <@fmccor> wltjr, We can give then bylaws in current state if we can kill of Section 5 by email next week.
+20:59 <@wltjr> banks expect there to be an owner, which Gentoo has none, so doesn't help us there with that
+20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> vote ?
+20:59 <@fmccor> wltjr, We are a corporation.
+20:59 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I say top level, which includes infra IMHO
+21:00 <@tsunam> wltjr: basically wells fargo doesn't do international banking well
+21:00 <@wltjr> fmccor: still has some form of ownership usually, share holders etc
+21:00 <@wltjr> tsunam: agreed, and they have some Home Land Security issues as well
+21:00 <@wltjr> they had new questions DHS made them ask, like international wire transfers
+21:01 <@wltjr> which I said we might, as if there is people in Russia, Czech, etc selling Gentoo stuff, I assume they might wire the funds monthly or something vs mailing a check
+21:01 <@fmccor> wltjr, I thought the form just wanted some signatures from officers.
+21:01 <@wltjr> fmccor: they seem to want all principles, and not sure about our president residing outside the US
+21:01 <@wltjr> luckily UK is not a big deal, but still in future years, could be another country
+21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I can sign the form and post it (air mail)
+21:02 <@wltjr> what happens if we have no one in the US elected to the board one year ?
+21:02 <@fmccor> We only fill out their form once.
+21:02 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am not even sure you can be on the account, I have to find that out
+21:02 <@fmccor> I wouldn't worry about it.
+21:02 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am hoping we can create the account withuot you on it entirely, as I don't think they will let foreigners be on the account, I have to ask, not assume
+21:02 <@fmccor> At least, not now.
+21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ok
+21:02 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: hang tight, let me call them Monday
+21:03 <@wltjr> also off topic, some jerk hit my 6mnth old new car the other day, so my time frame next week, etc is going to be crap, followed shortly by a trip to CA 1st-11th for LWE and other business
+21:03 <@fmccor> wltjr, They ask for addresses only for signaturies.
+21:04 <@wltjr> I will try to call Wells Fargo on monday, but I also must meet with the insurance adjuster and get my baby to a body shop, and I have full day of work :(
+21:04 <@fmccor> wltjr, The other signatures are just signatures and dates.
+21:04 <@wltjr> fmccor: they want all ids, etc
+21:04 <@wltjr> fmccor: I need to contact them and ask them some details
+21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets get it sorted out on Monday
+21:04 <@wltjr> plus the more we add to the bank account the more we have to remove
+21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I will try but I have allot going on that day, and unfortunately Gentoo will not be a major priority, life comes first :(
+21:05 <@wltjr> I think we might be best sticking with just a treasurer and one to two others on the account max if we can
+21:05 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Fine, I understand ... I was just repeating what you said
+21:05 <@NeddySeagoon> Moving on ... International Requests For Gentoo Merchandise
+21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: roger that :)
+21:06 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, has already covered that
+21:06 <@NeddySeagoon> 7. Gentoo Tee Shirts - Request from cz
+21:06 <@fmccor> I'm fine with it.
+21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> We have had a request to OK tee shirts in .cz I propose we go ahead while the paperwork is being sorted out
+21:07 <@fmccor> Agreed.
+21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, tsunam tgall_foo ^^
+21:07 <@tsunam> Its fine with me
+21:07 < musikc> Are these on the Gentoo store site or a secondary site?
+21:07 <@tsunam> secondary
+21:08 * musikc nods
+21:08 <@tsunam> with an agreement to give money back to the foundation
+21:08 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I don't have a problem, they made a generous offer of $2 or something per T
+21:08 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, a vendor in cz want to use our logo on tee shirts
+21:08 < musikc> Just curious now, will they also provide regular statement of activity?
+21:09 <@wltjr> musikc: well given the informal nature of all of Gentoo's activities, I don't see this being much different
+21:09 < musikc> i just recall when wolf was a trustee he spent a lot of man hours tracking down illegal use
+21:09 <@wltjr> so long as they give something back, I don't see us looking to audit or have them do additional paperwork or reports to us to show us they are being honest and straight forward
+21:09 <@wltjr> musikc: we are trying to avoid that and reverse it
+21:09 <@fmccor> musikc, In this case, they asked for permission, so I don't think they want to work illegally.
+21:10 < musikc> id be inclined to think they do not wish to use it illegally either, doesnt hurt to ask for a statement of activity does it?
+21:10 <@fmccor> Not at all.
+21:10 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, nope.
+21:10 < musikc> wltjr, ive no idea what you are referring to when you say "avoid that and reverse it"
+21:10 <@fmccor> They'd had to provide something, because we want a kick-back.
+21:10 <@wltjr> musikc: also add some bounty to any tracking down, as once we have a general policy of requiring like 2%, if we have to have counsel go after them, at least there will be some finanial benefit, vs just a cease and desist
+21:11 <@wltjr> musikc: if we have no policy, no requirement of them giving back to the foundation, then we must go after them for no gain
+21:11 <@wltjr> if we put forth a general policy, that let's all know what is legal and not, and what the requirements there are
+21:12 < musikc> wltjr, read this carefully as i dont say it often, that makes sense and seems rather agreeable.
+21:12 * musikc giggles
+21:12 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, licence anyone who asks - under the same terms but still hunt down those who don't ask
+21:12 * musikc nods
+21:12 <@wltjr> musikc: more of them coming to us, and having permission without asking, should hopefully lead to less enforcement, and if/when there is the need, there will be some benefit
+21:12 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, all sounds logical, was just interested when i saw talk of selling merchandise since ive rather said PR should aid in that area ;)
+21:12 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I thought the idea behind the policy was not having to ask in the first place
+21:13 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: if they send us $ who cares if they ask or not, short of being nice to so we are aware of them
+21:13 <@fmccor> wltjr, No, I don't think so.
+21:13 < musikc> wltjr, how could you know the policy was enforced if you've never talked to them? otherwise it would look like any donation and not specifically tied to the actual cause.
+21:13 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, I will forward you the email, if thats ok with the other trustees here
+21:13 <@fmccor> We still want to know about them.
+21:13 <@fmccor> Fine with me.
+21:13 < musikc> fmccor, makes sense. give props where due and all
+21:13 <@wltjr> musikc: easy, company selling stuff, we would know if they are giving back or not, just the same as if they never contacted us, no diff there really
+21:14 <@wltjr> we could require in a policy that they contact us and get permission
+21:14 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the difference is they if they contact us they get a licence ... it could even be a web form
+21:14 < musikc> wltjr, seems two different things entirely. one involves someone giving money back and the other involves never knowing that they SHOULD have
+21:14 <@fmccor> wltjr, They still have to tell us they agree to the license.
+21:14 <@wltjr> but if they donate funds they collected on behalf of the foundation, I would assume they would provide a note or reason when presenting those funds to the foundation
+21:14 < musikc> wltjr, ok, if you require they contact that makes a lot more sense IMO
+21:15 <@wltjr> musikc: a public policy is like a speed limit
+21:15 < musikc> wltjr, be careful with assumptions... we all know what they often lead to
+21:15 <@wltjr> if we put it out there, it's others job to be aware of and follow the policy, there are many laws that exist we have no clue of, but we must obide by them, and is our responsibility to be aware of them, not the law
+21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> The details still need to be worked out ...
+21:16 <@fmccor> wltjr, A license agreement is like a franchise agreement or a contract --- we have a form, and they tell us they agree to it.
+21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yep
+21:16 <@wltjr> allot of this is based on stuff I was reading from Apples usage stuff, of like the word Apple, their logo etc
+21:16 < musikc> honestly if someone wants to sell Gentoo branded merchandise, it should not be a stretch to simply say "hey let us know how you're using our logo"
+21:16 <@fmccor> musikc, correct.
+21:16 * fmccor agrees
+21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, I think they have to, or our logo becomes public domain
+21:16 < musikc> exactly
+21:17 <@fmccor> Indeed, it does. Like heroin. :)
+21:17 < musikc> and id rather avoid the potential for defacing the logo which would undoubtedly happen if it were public domain
+21:17 <@NeddySeagoon> We have to protect our logo and trade marks
+21:17 <@wltjr> well international enforcement is a tricky arena
+21:17 <@wltjr> within the US and with our allies it's one thing
+21:17 <@fmccor> We can't control pirates.
+21:18 < musikc> no way to prevent it from happening, but it is good to be able to have an enforcable policy
+21:18 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, it depends how hard you have to push - often a polite did you know ... is enogh
+21:18 <@wltjr> but like violation of our policies in Russia, not sure what we could do, nor how that would effect a US trademark status, as in giving other us entities legal right to use without permisison because a Russian one is abusing it
+21:18 < musikc> and fmccor, i do believe NeddySeagoon is correct that if we do not enforce it on even one person it would then become public domain.
+21:18 <@fmccor> But there are some steps we can take to protect our trademark --- I think I put that in my email to the lawyer.
+21:18 <@wltjr> musikc: domestic or international enforcement?
+21:19 <@wltjr> it's a domestic trademark right?
+21:19 <@wltjr> musikc: but I know what you are talking about
+21:19 <@fmccor> wltjr, I think it's international.
+21:19 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, I think we have to demonstrate we take 'reasonable steps' to protect our marks
+21:19 <@wltjr> a perfect example is the walking fingers
+21:19 < musikc> wltjr, that sounds like a question for your lawyers :)
+21:19 <@tsunam> wltjr: its registered with the german version as well
+21:19 <@wltjr> which used to be trade marked BellSouth, but they did not enforce it, and now they do not own it, every phone book has the walking fingers :)
+21:19 <@tsunam> so its international afaik
+21:20 <@wltjr> musikc: which we have no relationship with any at this time
+21:20 <@wltjr> tsunam: is that tied to the same one that Fenwick did for us?
+21:20 <@tsunam> nope
+21:20 <@tsunam> was done by one of the gentoo developers in germany..
+21:21 < musikc> wltjr, if the trustees have no relationship with the Gentoo pro bono lawyers i was not aware. did they quit?
+21:21 <@NeddySeagoon> the eV there ... I think it was ian
+21:21 <@wltjr> looks like we might need to register or something with the ITA, International Trademark Associaiont
+21:21 <@fmccor> musikc, I'm in contact with her, but she's out of the office until about the 22nd.
+21:21 <@wltjr> musikc: we are working on establishing a relationship with them, fmccor is
+21:22 <@wltjr> musikc: renat worked with them, but right as his term was coming to an end, or after it ended
+21:22 < musikc> fmccor, ahhhh, what you said makes more sense than the statement that "we have no relationship"
+21:22 <@wltjr> musikc: because we presently don't, we have no dialog, we aren't a customer/client of theirs at this time, etc
+21:22 < musikc> people take holidays, i say good for them and i need to do the same soon!
+21:22 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, it got droped in the handover and is being picked up again
+21:22 <@fmccor> Did I say that? I certainly shouldn't have if I did.
+21:22 < musikc> fmccor, no, wltjr said that
+21:22 <@wltjr> fmccor: I did
+21:23 <@wltjr> fmccor: you are trying to establish a relationship now
+21:23 <@wltjr> we have no clue if they will continue to do any pro bono work, take us on a client, etc
+21:23 <@fmccor> wltjr, Yes.
+21:23 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, re-estoblish
+21:23 <@wltjr> we know what they did
+21:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well I am not clear the foundation ever was established, short of a few trustees being in contact
+21:23 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Ah, ok
+21:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: seems to be just renat, not sure if they were in contact with any other
+21:23 < musikc> wltjr, do you ahve reason to believe that with the change in trustees they no longer wish to work with us?
+21:24 <@wltjr> musikc: I have no clue, I would hope and assume they would move forward
+21:24 <@fmccor> wltjr, And if they are not set up to the international things, Renat knows a couple who are, so we have leads and contacts.
+21:24 < musikc> i asked wolf, he said it was always renat who conducted the conversations
+21:24 <@wltjr> musikc: but we have needs, and they might have been just assisting with the trademark, and did their charitable stuff
+21:25 <@wltjr> in anything we do it's important the relationship be more the foundation than the point of contact, that the other party knows the point of contact will change, but not the end client
+21:25 <@fmccor> musikc, wltjr Renat is passing that off to me. because I can talk "lawyer" I guess. :)
+21:25 < musikc> wltjr, Gentoo has had the relationship with the pro bono lawyers for years, it was not just for the trademark assistance
+21:25 <@wltjr> musikc: first I am hearing of that, not sure about others
+21:25 <@wltjr> musikc: ideally all this stuff would have been dealt with during changing of the guards
+21:25 < musikc> i am unsure if it was always the same lawyers, but the assistance has been there for numerous years
+21:26 <@NeddySeagoon> We seemed to have wandered off Gentoo Tee Shirts - Request from cz and onto Any other business
+21:26 < musikc> wltjr, just ask previous trustees. i just have the added benefit of hollaring at one in the next room. ;)
+21:26 <@wltjr> musikc: I think it was different, as renat seems to be pursuing a career in law, he has connections all over the place
+21:26 <@wltjr> musikc: we have, we have gotten info over period as it's been needed
+21:26 <@tsunam> musikc: you still do...more or less
+21:26 < musikc> wltjr, ok. i was confused when you said it was the first you have heard of it.
+21:27 <@wltjr> lessons learned for next time around
+21:27 * musikc steps back so NeddySeagoon can bring his conversation back to order ;)
+21:27 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets move to AoB
+21:27 <@wltjr> musikc: first I have heard of a relationship with Fenwick that wasn't pertaining to the trademark, but could have been other counsel
+21:27 <@wltjr> I mean we have retained an attorney in NM, but he can't help with much outside of local issues
+21:27 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you want do discuss a change to the meeting time ?
+21:28 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: if possible, sundays are very hard in the summer and likely same afterward
+21:28 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, when do you r propose ?
+21:28 * wltjr is making an effor to not work on weekends, and to have a life :)
+21:28 * musikc giggles
+21:28 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: weekday would be best, but not sure that works for others
+21:28 < musikc> wltjr, pay a 10 year old to cut your grass then :)
+21:28 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Its ok for me
+21:28 <@fmccor> Works for me if not too late.
+21:28 <@wltjr> musikc: I need the excercise, and for the size of my lawn it wouldn't be cheap
+21:29 <@wltjr> but yard work is hardly what I tend to do on Sundays, go to the beach is more like it :)
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, It won't be late, it needs to be about 19:00 UTC for me
+21:29 * fmccor starts his work day at about 7:00AM (1100 UTC).
+21:29 < musikc> wltjr, my little brother used to do it. managed to get a used riding mower and made quite the profit afterwards ;)
+21:29 <@fmccor> 1900UTC is perfect for me.
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, tsunam tgall_foo ^^
+21:30 <@wltjr> musikc: I have thought of hiring a law service and maid, but that's more $ each month, and have to have it coming in
+21:30 <@wltjr> contrary to popular opinion I am not wealthy and do not make allot of $
+21:30 <@fmccor> On the west coast, that's noon, and for tgall_foo , it's 1:00PM
+21:30 <@wltjr> wrt to Gentoo I make 0, and the more I think about that, I believe Gentoo is costing me and my business $, but that's for another day
+21:30 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, what day for you ?
+21:30 <@tsunam> 1900 works
+21:30 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: any weekday is good, I hvae regular work schedules for the most part
+21:31 < musikc> wltjr, i dont think anyone believes you are wealthy, you've said repeatedly how you own your own business and work hard to keep it going. :)
+21:31 <@wltjr> musikc: work my arse off, I work more and harder than if I worked for someone and make a bit less $
+21:31 <@NeddySeagoon> What about a Monday ? ... but really I have no preference
+21:31 <@wltjr> actually allot less, but that should change in time, and most of the time I enjoy what I do
+21:31 <@fmccor> Verify the time with tgall_foo , I guess, and let him pick a day if it matters.
+21:32 <@wltjr> as long as it's not like the second or first Tuesdays, as we have Java team meetings at 18:00 UTC
+21:32 <@NeddySeagoon> I cannot get on IRC from work and most of you would be in bed if I did :)
+21:32 * fmccor does not care what day, but has come to loathe weekend meetings.
+21:32 <@wltjr> but that might be ok as well, just 2 hours of gentoo meetings :(
+21:32 <@wltjr> resulting in 0 commits :(
+21:33 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm proposing Monday
+21:33 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: should be fine, and ty for considering moving the day of the week
+21:33 <@NeddySeagoon> DONM Moday Aug 18 at 1900 UTC
+21:33 <@NeddySeagoon> Monday*
+21:34 <@wltjr> it will really help in my attendance because I keep much better track of my time, appointements, meetings, etc during the week
+21:34 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, AoB ?
+21:34 <@tsunam> none
+21:34 <@wltjr> oh one last thing
+21:34 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, AoB ?
+21:34 <@wltjr> major thing actually
+21:34 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, contine
+21:34 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Nope.
+21:34 <@wltjr> we need to put forth a vote at some point IMHO, in house foundation or like SPI
+21:35 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we do ... thats months off yet
+21:35 <@wltjr> I think we want to stay in house, but to do so will likely require some changes, organization, structure, etc that many aren't cool with
+21:35 <@NeddySeagoon> We need a stable Foundation first
+21:35 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: ok, I thought we wanted to know before getting to committed with bank account, etc
+21:35 * wltjr will be pissed to put hours, weeks, or more time into stuff just to see it reversed
+21:36 <@fmccor> wltjr, Perhaps. But I certainly think we want to stay in house.
+21:36 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we want to set up as if its in house ... then decide the long term future
+21:36 <@wltjr> fmccor: I do as well, but I think we should have a global vote to decided, although we technically could as elected representatives
+21:36 <@fmccor> Why?
+21:37 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, feel free to air your views in your GMN part of the Trustee special
+21:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: because it's been clear some of the things that are necessary are very controversial
+21:37 <@fmccor> wltjr, We are already set up in house --- why would we need a vote to keep doing that?
+21:37 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yeah I need to do something there
+21:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: we aren't really
+21:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: we don't have a bank account, no financial reporting, no budget, etc
+21:37 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, those things are all coming
+21:37 <@fmccor> And we are actively pursuing all of that.
+21:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: we are slowing resurrecting the pieces, but again allot of work that could easily be reversed
+21:38 <@fmccor> how?
+21:38 <@wltjr> fmccor: is there interest in the foundation?
+21:38 <@wltjr> fmccor: will people want to run in a year or so
+21:38 <@wltjr> do people even want to see the foundation being active
+21:38 <@fmccor> Sure.
+21:38 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats a longer term issue. We have to be sound and legal before we join an umbrella
+21:39 <@NeddySeagoon> if we choose to go that way
+21:39 <@wltjr> fmccor: I am not so sure, it seems most want the foundation to stick to it's limited roll and agenda, which IMHO doesn't make much sense at all to have a foundation vs outside management
+21:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: BS, the entire point of joining an umbrella is for them to do the boring work and to get us legal and keep us legal
+21:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: SPI has no requirements for our condition when we come to them
+21:40 < musikc> hmmm... if i may?
+21:40 <@fmccor> Please.
+21:40 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc sure
+21:40 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: the point is the SPI would do for us everything we are now, without us struggling to do it
+21:40 <@wltjr> they would manage bank account, funds, reporting, tax filings, donation reports, etc
+21:40 < musikc> it makes far more sense to have an organized house to hand over, if thats the decided upon course, than a disorganized one. if you hand over disorganization how do you know if you are getting what you want out of the agreement when you didnt know what you had to begin with?
+21:41 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I don't share your confidence but maybe you have looked into it a lot more than me
+21:41 <@fmccor> musikc, I agree absolutely with that.
+21:41 <@wltjr> musikc: most of our organization goes away and is not required to join an umbrella
+21:41 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc++
+21:41 <@wltjr> for example, we don't need a bank account for SPI or SFC
+21:41 <@wltjr> as they have their own acounts that funds go into
+21:41 <@wltjr> so us creating and having a bank account, means squat to joining an umbrella
+21:42 < musikc> wltjr, i see your line of thought and appreciate the thought put into it, however i still hold the opinion that you should know what you are handing over first.
+21:42 <@fmccor> wltjr, We have to carry on as we are now anyway, no matter what we might choose in the future.
+21:42 <@wltjr> any legal filings, they have to either undo, or correct/change, so having stuff is almost more work than not
+21:42 <@wltjr> musikc: I spoke with the SPI let us not forget
+21:42 <@fmccor> wltjr, And I don't think any of us want to hand it over in any case.
+21:42 <@wltjr> they are different than the SFC to an extent, much more organized, but have little to no requirements
+21:42 <@wltjr> and we are already further along than were things were at when I was talking to them
+21:43 < musikc> wltjr, you and others have spoken to different groups. it doesnt change the value to knowing what you hand over. and if it requires a bit of work for them to transition it to their group then so be it, at least they know what work they would have to do instead of uncertainity.
+21:43 <@wltjr> fmccor: agreed, but the foundation has little to no authority, and if it tries to exert any it quickly becomes controversial
+21:43 <@wltjr> musikc: I spoke ot the SFC as well
+21:43 <@fmccor> So, remove the "quickly" bit.
+21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I don't want to jooin an umbrella while we still have a chance to make a go of our own Foundation.
+21:44 <@wltjr> musikc: the SFC is very differet from the SPI, much newer and mostly dealing with smaller entities with way less BS
+21:44 < musikc> NeddySeagoon ++
+21:44 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I agree, but I am not sure we have the support
+21:44 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, agreed
+21:44 <@wltjr> thus a vote would show what direction will be supported by the community
+21:44 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, don't worry about a little controversy ... it stirrs the sediment
+21:44 <@wltjr> I have no interest in pursuing directions that are not supported, that means we will be pissing in the wind the entire time for any effort or action
+21:44 < musikc> wltjr, this discussion seems premature. it appears that others in trustees wish to continue efforts.
+21:45 <@fmccor> Agreed.
+21:45 < musikc> i support the interest to continue and move forward and look forward to reviewing any ideas you folks share
+21:45 <@wltjr> ok, so does anyone else want ot spend hours this week talking to Wells Fargo?
+21:45 <@wltjr> regardless of how we feel, in a year we will potentially be replaced
+21:45 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we need this discussion sometime but it needs a dedicated meeting and airing on the -ml *after* we can stand on our own feet
+21:46 <@wltjr> so anything we do can be undone, unless the community and others share the common long term direction and goals
+21:46 < musikc> wltjr, your opinion. any of you can run again and if the foundation members feel your work was just and valuable you'd likely be voted in again. :)
+21:46 <@wltjr> standing on our own two feet is hardly trivial
+21:46 <@wltjr> I am just trying to justify my time is all
+21:46 < musikc> wltjr, anything anyone does in Gentoo could be undone. it's not just for trustees. :)
+21:46 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, of course not, its running a busines
+21:46 <@wltjr> musikc: yes, but legal issues are much harder
+21:47 <@wltjr> musikc: look at what must be done to open an bank account
+21:47 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, not harded, just more protracted
+21:47 <@wltjr> it's HOURS of work, and is not glorious like commiting to tree or etc
+21:47 <@wltjr> and a business with no structure will fail, as has the foundation time and time again
+21:47 < musikc> wltjr, so good work doesnt happen easily. you of all people are well aware of that from your experience with your own small business. :)
+21:47 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I do hours of work and never commit to the tree :(
+21:47 <@wltjr> put another way, how many years has the foundation existed, and how many has it operated smoothly and as it shoudl for?
+21:48 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: technical stuff is different I enjoy that
+21:48 <@wltjr> I do not enjoy calling about bank accounts, signing stuff that needs to be mailed, etc
+21:48 < musikc> wltjr, so because others failed or did what could be viewed as sub par work no one should try to rectify that? you wanted this role to make a difference, do not now be afraid to act for fear of it being undone.
+21:48 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think its only operated properly since March this year ... or at least visibly so
+21:49 <@wltjr> musikc: no, my point is action without support is pointless
+21:49 <@fmccor> It started off well.
+21:49 <@wltjr> musikc: if we correct, but the community doesn't care, it will happen again
+21:49 <@wltjr> it's not us that sees our work through, it's the community
+21:49 < musikc> wltjr, or if the community supports it now, what is to say that the opinion wont change in a year or two?
+21:49 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think you have been doing a good job of making others aware that the Foundation is alive and kicking, even if its not made you friends
+21:50 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: it's literally almost driven me from Gentoo
+21:50 < musikc> things change, do not be afraid to act due to fear of change. you guys hold a valuable job and one that is needed.
+21:50 <@wltjr> I am so beat up wrt to Foundation stuff, I have no clue where I stand on any of it
+21:50 <@fmccor> wltjr, Everything I see suggests that the community appreciates what we are doing.
+21:50 <@wltjr> IMHO is all starting to seem like totally wasted time on stuff people just don't care about
+21:50 < musikc> wltjr, you seem disenchanted
+21:50 <@wltjr> fmccor: really?
+21:50 <@wltjr> so who supported my sponsor survey?
+21:50 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, have a few weeks off ... The foundation is hard work
+21:50 <@wltjr> 1 person, and 1 new sponsor
+21:51 <@wltjr> who within gentoo is doing anything to try to help or support the foundation?
+21:51 < musikc> wltjr, not everyone will agree with every suggestion. doesnt mean you should just put away the drawing board.
+21:51 <@wltjr> musikc: I have run out of suggestions
+21:51 <@wltjr> I have come up with stuff on both sides, in the middle, etc no one is happy with anything
+21:51 < musikc> wltjr, perhaps try NeddySeagoon's suggestion and take a break
+21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, sponsors are going to be a really contraversial can of worms ... no major sponsors donate to the Foundation
+21:52 <@wltjr> musikc: which includes you at one point, as well as others
+21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> ... yest
+21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> yet
+21:52 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no they are easy, our new sponsor was great
+21:52 < musikc> wltjr, oh you have made suggestions that i am completely opposed to. doesnt mean i think you should stop thinking or suggesting.
+21:52 <@wltjr> the hard part is existing sponsors, and going through infra
+21:52 <@wltjr> as it seems even updating the sponsors page is a infra matter, which is odd
+21:52 <@wltjr> so infra deals with sponsors, another duty of the foudation, that no one wants to see the foundation handle
+21:53 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, when they can see a tax advantage, it will get easier to move them
+21:53 <@wltjr> musikc: well when ever idea one has get's shot down, it doesn't motivate one to keep on, instead just shut up and let others propose ideas
+21:53 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Our sponsors do *not* (yet) donate to the Foundation
+21:53 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: tax advantages heh, a 5yr process, I am not confident the house will stay in order for 1yr much less 5, tax incentives are a pipe dream IMHO
+21:54 <@wltjr> like if we are serious about 501c3 and umbrella is the only for sure way IMHO
+21:54 < musikc> wltjr, that's one way to look at it, giving up. or you could instead find another view point to work and give it another go.
+21:54 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, dreams are how it all starts
+21:55 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, an umbrella may be lowest risk ... that does not make it right
+21:55 <@wltjr> musikc: another point of view is to let ideas play out before shooting them down on the drawing board
+21:55 <@wltjr> which for example a while back stuff I believe astinus or antarus I always mix the two, was shooting down on -nfp, months later retracted it on irc, which is like wtf?
+21:55 < musikc> wltjr, sorry i dont agree that ideas should be implemented before reviewed, discussed, and possibly re-written.
+21:56 < musikc> wltjr, people change. perhaps someone gave it more thought and was swayed to your line of thought. doesnt seem like a bad thing imo. :)
+21:56 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats the real world, people change their minds
+21:56 <@wltjr> musikc: I can say wrt to you and Chris, you all don't know me at all, and some of my ideas you had other assumptions behind, so shot down things you didn't fully understand, because assuming one knows who they are coming from
+21:56 <@wltjr> musikc: the more you rip ideas apart, the more time you spend spinning your wheels
+21:56 < musikc> wltjr, i feel you are making this personal and hope that is not the case especially given you are talking to me about someone who is not even present.
+21:57 <@wltjr> more time is lost to indecision than wrong decision
+21:57 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, they key their is 'didn't fully understand' - thats not a reason for giving up
+21:57 <@wltjr> everyone is so fearful of being wrong, nothing happens
+21:57 <@wltjr> put another way, as I have said before
+21:57 <@wltjr> a new dev comes on board, we give them full access/ability to destroy the tree
+21:57 < musikc> wltjr, who is fearful of being wrong? it seems that you are expressing your own views as you are the one who is expressing apathy towards suggestions for fear of being shot down.
+21:57 <@wltjr> new trustee comes on board, who has been around the community for some time, no trust or faith
+21:58 <@fmccor> wltjr, A negative reaction or a disagreement is just that. It doesn't necessarily shoot something down (if it did, my life would be much simpler), it just forces dialog and perhaps compromise.
+21:58 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, its not the same ... new job, new tree ...
+21:58 <@wltjr> I am just beat up, and if others are more optomistic then more power to them
+21:58 < musikc> wltjr, please ask fmccor. he can attest that we do not always agree yet through mutual respect we manage every day and every week to move forward. :)
+21:58 <@wltjr> but I seem to always end up in the trenches shoveling the crap
+21:59 <@fmccor> wltjr, musikc is right, you know.
+21:59 <@wltjr> like I am no longer invovled with by laws process, which I never wanted to be part of, but felt it needed to be reviewed and discussed in depth
+21:59 <@wltjr> next thing I am spear heading that, and ideas are all being attested to me personally
+21:59 <@wltjr> just looking to help with bank account, and now I am doing that as well
+21:59 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, The reaction I have seen to your proposals is one of 'shock horror' because they are out of he blue, not because of resoned well thought out objections
+22:00 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: exactly, so they should shut up and object when there is reason to, not theory
+22:00 <@fmccor> wltjr, Let's just say that devrel's private conversations would not earn a CoC seal of approval (unless you are thinking Call of Cthulhu :) )
+22:00 <@wltjr> fmccor: I have no clue what your referencing or meaning there
+22:00 * musikc giggles
+22:00 < antarus> wltjr: you don't make a good sell ;)
+22:00 <@tsunam> it sounds like the meeting has digressed...
+22:00 <@wltjr> I am really sick of stuff being personally tied to me, I have my own business and my own clients who all are business owners, I have lots of other places for my personal ideas
+22:01 < musikc> wltjr, means me and fmccor have knock out drag out fights regularly, but we lick our wounds and move on and find common ground again. :)
+22:01 < antarus> also you seem to be in a hurry and then when things are not done at your own pace you take up more stuff
+22:01 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the fault, if there is one, is on both sides. Change can come in any direction you like, but slowly ... you have to prepare the way
+22:01 < antarus> no one is forcing you to tak eon more tasks ;)
+22:01 < antarus> don't overload yourself
+22:01 < musikc> hehe, NeddySeagoon, isnt it ghandi who said you must be the change you wish to see?
+22:01 <@wltjr> musikc: this stuff has caused me to become ineffective as a trustee, hated as a person, hurt some relationships, kills any technical commit time to gentoo, robs time from my business, and is all making me pretty bitter
+22:01 <@fmccor> wltjr, Call if Cthulhu is a pretty well known horror story by H.P. Lovecraft and a role playing game. :)
+22:01 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, something like that
+22:02 <@tsunam> fmccor: a very good short story
+22:02 <@tsunam> fmccor: but I'd not call it horror
+22:02 < musikc> wltjr, i can see the bitterness coming through. im sorry you are dealing with that. perhaps you should take the time as neddy suggests and step back, you can later review it after you are well rested.
+22:02 <@wltjr> antarus: nope but stuff doesn't get done either way, I really didn't want to be a trustee, but there was void that needed to be filled, no one else stepped up so I did
+22:02 <@fmccor> tsunam, Maybe not. It is a good story, though.
+22:02 <@wltjr> musikc: were you there almost a year ago when I was discussiong foundation stuff?
+22:03 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Stuff will still get done, just more slowly
+22:03 <@wltjr> at LWE?
+22:03 < musikc> wltjr, yes. i sat quietly and let you share your thoughts regardless of my opinions.
+22:03 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: the longer it takes for things to happen, the less time we have to see the work through
+22:03 < musikc> wltjr, it is good to air out your thoughts with peers. doesnt mean everyone will later accept them as first suggested though. lots of ideas require revisions.
+22:03 <@wltjr> musikc: well all ideas were shot down, my point is almost 1yr solid now carrying about the foundation
+22:04 <@wltjr> hasn't improved my life at all, in or outside of Gentoo, I am not to convinced the foundation is any better off
+22:04 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Nah, we just change our term of office. Thats only partly in jest
+22:04 <@fmccor> wltjr, I work on the belief that if I run again, I'll be re-elect, and in any event I'm an officer of the Foundation until someone else is appointed. :)
+22:04 <@wltjr> we aren't getting anywhere, and pretty sure meeting is long over, so I will just let others get on with it
+22:04 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I'm sure the Foundation is better off for your contribution
+22:05 <@fmccor> Oh, for sure it is.
+22:05 < musikc> wltjr, you do seem very bitter and disenchanted with the entire Gentoo experience you currently have. take a break so you can view tihngs with fresh eyes.
+22:05 * musikc nods
+22:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am not, and I am less happy wrt to Gentoo overall now
+22:05 <@wltjr> musikc: no I love the technical experiences
+22:05 <@wltjr> I love the java team, and people I work with there, whom I have not been workign with for most of the year
+22:05 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Take a break from the Foundation stuff
+22:05 < musikc> you've raised a cause that was dying, that alone was good. now you are actively trying to restore and make improvements. not sure how that's bad. just be patient with others when they dont instantly side with your suggestions.
+22:06 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, can you pick up the banking stuff ?
+22:06 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, No; I'm not qualified for that.
+22:06 <@tsunam> hand it back to me
+22:06 <@tsunam> I'll figure a way to make time
+22:06 <@wltjr> tsunam: nothing stopping you from making the calls
+22:06 <@wltjr> we all have the info
+22:07 <@fmccor> I think tgall_foo was experienced, and at this point, if I read it right, it's mostly a matter of collecting paperwork at this point.
+22:07 <@tsunam> other then I get to work at 7:30ish and go go go until end of the day :-P
+22:07 <@wltjr> I literally put in my agenda I have little to no time
+22:07 <@wltjr> that any time I spent I wanted to see results sooner than later
+22:07 * musikc pokes tsunam
+22:07 <@wltjr> that hasn't been the case, and it's resulting in more time from me, and no results
+22:07 < musikc> :-P
+22:07 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Please take a break
+22:07 <@fmccor> I sent my forms to William; he can send them on.
+22:07 < musikc> wltjr, it is unrealistic to say that everything must happen right away
+22:07 <@wltjr> and while things like the by laws are almost complete, IMHO it's still pretty half ass
+22:08 <@tsunam> so we take more time on them
+22:08 <@wltjr> like wrt to Foundation members, wtf are they? what does being a member mean?
+22:08 <@tsunam> rather have them right then half assed true?
+22:08 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the bylaws will always be a moving target
+22:08 <@fmccor> I think the bylaws are good enough. We can amend them as needed, and it's much more important to have them in place than to have them perfect.
+22:08 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: sure for minor changes, but I don't see the members section being constantly re-written
+22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr Members ... maybe nothing yet but we can change that
+22:09 <@tsunam> <--is in need of food
+22:09 < musikc> <---- is in need of a movie
+22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more AoB ?
+22:09 * fmccor is in need of food, too, but for a different meal, probably.
+22:09 <@wltjr> no I am done, other things to do
+22:09 <@tsunam> fmccor: yar
+22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Open floor ...
+22:10 <@NeddySeagoon> Anybody anything else ?
+22:10 * NeddySeagoon declares the meeting closed
+22:10 < antarus> poll dancing
+22:10 <@fmccor> wltjr, Can you send the forms I sent you to Joshua, or should I send him copies directly?
+22:10 <@wltjr> fmccor: I can send, but you all are getting ahead of yourself
+22:10 <@NeddySeagoon> antarus, its pole :)
+22:10 <@wltjr> we need to answers to questions to find out if we can even proceed with Wells Fargo
+22:11 < antarus> NeddySeagoon: election year and all that ;)
+22:11 * musikc giggles at antarus for his poll dance
+22:11 < antarus> (and I cannot spell)
+22:11 <@wltjr> like if they require the president to be on file, but they have to be a US citizen we are screwed
+22:11 <@tsunam> wltjr: just let me know where you got and I'll follow up
+22:11 < musikc> wltjr, you are jumping the gun. tsunam has agreed to assist so you can take time off. :)
+22:11 <@wltjr> tsunam: I can call them at least and get answers, which I assume will take ~30 minutes, since they will have to ask a supervisor and are not common/normal questions
+22:11 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr Nope, we can switch offices
+22:12 <@wltjr> tsunam: do you want to call them? do you know the questions I am talking about
+22:12 <@wltjr> musikc: to a point I have to see some of it through since my name, phone # etc is tied to the account
+22:12 <@tsunam> wltjr: I just need an email that gives the current situation and general what needs to be done
+22:12 <@tsunam> wltjr: I'll follow from there
+22:12 <@wltjr> info we need to have on file with them but haven't discussed
+22:12 < musikc> wltjr, that would be a problem if only one person can even discuss the account
+22:12 <@wltjr> not to mention I dislike the bank account address being Mr. Chews
+22:12 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, there is no account yet ... yo are however, the contact
+22:13 <@wltjr> musikc: yes, we have lots of problems wrt to bank account
+22:13 <@tsunam> we'll work on it
+22:13 < musikc> no account = anyone can call and ask questions
+22:13 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: there is an account application underway
+22:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: I'll look for the email from you and work on it as soon as I can
+22:13 <@tsunam> for now I'm out
+22:13 < musikc> so the trustees are opening an account in which wltjr is the only one who can ask questions or make changes? doesnt sound right, i must be misunderstanding something.
+22:13 <@wltjr> till we provide paperwork they won't know who else can deal with the account, aside from me since I made the call and started the process
+22:13 <@fmccor> Banks can't be surprised to learn that a corporation might have officers outside the US.
+22:14 < musikc> good point fmccor
+22:14 <@wltjr> musikc: because banks are not setup for a hybrid organization like ours
+22:14 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, apparently not. From their website, that won't start until they check over the paperwork
+22:14 <@wltjr> it's very difficult
+22:14 <@wltjr> musikc: like when they were inquiring about owners, etc
+22:14 <@wltjr> we have no share holders, no one owns gentoo, and that is not like most any other business
+22:14 <@fmccor> wltjr, We're a not-for-profit corporation. What's unusual about that?
+22:14 < musikc> wltjr, i think someone just needs to take some time. shouldnt be that difficult or unusual, as fmccor points out.
+22:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: that no one lives in the state of the NPO, the NPO has no address of it's own
+22:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: there are tons of problems
+22:15 <@fmccor> We have members.
+22:15 <@wltjr> the NPO doesn't have a phone #
+22:15 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, The Foundation owns whatever there is to own
+22:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: members don't mean squat wrt to a bank acount, that doesn't show ownership
+22:15 <@wltjr> while the foundation is a legal entity, banks tie that to individuals as a entity can't managed a bank account
+22:15 <@fmccor> We have a board and we have officers.
+22:16 <@wltjr> individuals that work for or authorized by the entity due, thus the account get's tied to people as well as the entity
+22:16 <@wltjr> fmccor: yes which must all be on file for the account
+22:16 <@wltjr> fmccor: which also will all change at some point, and no clue how the bank will deal or react to taht
+22:16 <@fmccor> At least for signature authority.
+22:16 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, hand over to tsunam and take a month or so off from the Foundation please
+22:16 <@fmccor> wltjr, Who cares? That shouldn't surprise them either.
+22:17 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I can, but that's only going to set tsunam back in other efforts
+22:17 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr We all know that.
+22:17 <@wltjr> plus till I do something with Wells Fargo, pretty sure I am the only one who can proceed, unless we start a new application or something
+22:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Thisng will slow down but not stop
+22:18 < musikc> wltjr, you said there is no account, only paperwork for an account that has yet to be processed. people back out before accounts are started every day. this isnt rocket science. take your break and trust in your fellow trustees. :)
+22:18 <@wltjr> well how many months has it been since we were legal again, which was the road block to a bank account
+22:18 <@wltjr> I understand tsunam is short on time, that's why I got involved, so stepping back just to see the matter put off for another month or two isn't encouragement
+22:18 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Its a hobby, not life and death
+22:18 <@wltjr> musikc: opening an account is a process, which is underway
+22:18 <@wltjr> musikc: the process is not complete, but there is stuff on file, and I assume a bank account # tied to that info
+22:19 <@wltjr> musikc: I provided them with a bunch of info to start the process, we just have to follow through with paperwork
+22:19 < musikc> wltjr, what would happen if you quit tomorrow or heaven forbid you were injured or killed? your peers will be able to go on in your absence so enjoy some time off. :)
+22:19 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, WF site said that after they had our stuff, someone would contact us about opening the account
+22:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Its only first contact so far
+22:19 <@wltjr> musikc: if that was the case, I wouldn't even be on the board :)
+22:20 <@fmccor> Wells Fargo wants our business, we want them, so they're not looking for reasons to turn us down or throw up roadblocks.
+22:20 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes to complete the process that is underway
+22:20 <@wltjr> fmccor: no but they can't bend their rules either
+22:20 <@fmccor> They already think they have the business --- why else would they ask us to pick out a check design?
+22:20 < musikc> wltjr, you wouldnt be on the board if the trustees couldnt survive without you? trust me, life goes on and no one is tied by a life line to Gentoo.
+22:20 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Take your break, we will cover for you ... or do you think we can't ?
+22:20 <@wltjr> fmccor: so if their rules say all officers must be on file, and all have to be US citizens then?
+22:21 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, then I resign as president - not as trustee
+22:21 <@wltjr> musikc: if your saying the foundation would exist without me, possibly, but if it weren't for me making noise, there never would have been an election, much less reinstatement, etc
+22:21 < musikc> wltjr, perhaps you would then consider another bank? i know when i traveled to Asia i was happy to see that Citibank had a presence
+22:21 <@wltjr> musikc: been there, Wells Fargo is one of our last hopes
+22:21 <@fmccor> I think they asked for two officers --- the secretary and one other. I provided my signature there if you need it, and Tom must provide his.
+22:22 < musikc> wltjr, again i state, gentoo will move on without any one of us. do not fool yourself into thinking it would wither and die. that's ridiculous and a touch bit arrogant.
+22:22 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, *without* travel to sign paperwork
+22:22 <@wltjr> musikc: tried Citi and Chase already, we either have to physically go to NM to sign paperwork or look to establish official offices ina nother state
+22:22 <@wltjr> musikc: the foundation did die, again if it wasn't for me making that known, nothing would have happen
+22:22 <@wltjr> musikc: the last time the foundation operated as it should was 05, one of it's first years in existence
+22:22 * antarus notes that you have no idea what would have happened had you said nothing
+22:22 < musikc> wltjr, my reference with Citibank was to point out that there are banks that work in a variety of countries. ive no doubt that the trustees will find the right fit with the right bank.
+22:23 <@fmccor> musikc, Tom tracked Wells Fargo down based on the fact that they could work without a trip to NM. And if something in person is needed, tsunam is within walking distance of a branch.
+22:23 <@wltjr> antarus: I saw what happened from August 07 to January 08
+22:24 < musikc> wltjr, your opinion of everyone elses failures is so noted but is a bit harsh to say no one did anything since 2005 as i simply know people who did work between that time.
+22:24 <@fmccor> musikc, Problem with Citibank is they do not have offices in NM; Wells Fargo covers NM, and everyplace else west of the Missippi, and for some reason Indiana.
+22:24 <@wltjr> antarus: given the lack of interest in the foundation even to this day, I am not convinced anyone else would have stepped up or said anything, no one cared
+22:24 <@wltjr> musikc: stuff was done, but doing stuff and doing all that is required to run the foundation properly are not the same
+22:24 < musikc> fmccor, tsunam is not within walking distance of NM. he works with me.
+22:24 <@wltjr> musikc: we got the foundation with no bank account, a revoked charter, and last financial report was from 05
+22:25 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Drop it and enjoy your break ... if you come back refreshed, fine, if you consider your position and resign as a trustee, thats fine too. but first, take a break
+22:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I kinda have been, missed several meetings already
+22:25 < musikc> wltjr, you are becoming argumentative and as such i no longer wish to participate in this downward spiral of a conversation. i hope you enjoy your time off, please do not forget to set your .devaway
+22:25 <@fmccor> musikc, No, he is within walking distance of a Wells Fargo branch, though, and that's enough if they want to see you (at least, that's what tgall indicated)
+22:26 <@wltjr> musikc: um, I have packages to bump, and things to commit, being away as a trustee has nothing to do with being away as a developer
+22:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I don't think we are going anywhere with this just now ... chill out away from the Foundation for a month
+22:26 <@wltjr> musikc: most are interaction hasn't been pleasant for a while, today was abnormal so far
+22:26 < musikc> fmccor, ahhhhh... misunderstood. good that a simple office visit to any office is all that is required. :)
+22:26 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, but tsunam will need time off his work :)
+22:26 <@wltjr> musikc: if we have to sign stuff in person, but that doesn't seem to be a requirement at this time
+22:27 <@wltjr> so far with Wells Fargo we can do it all remotely, no one needs to enter a branch anywhere
+22:27 <@fmccor> musikc, The problem we were running in to seems to have been that there are few if any banks doing business both on the east coast and New Mexico.
+22:27 < musikc> <wltjr> musikc: this stuff has caused me to become ineffective as a trustee, hated as a person, hurt some relationships, kills any technical commit time to gentoo, robs time from my business, and is all making me pretty bitter
+22:27 <@wltjr> plus few banks want ot open a remote account
+22:27 < musikc> wltjr, i thought that message indicated you desired time off period.
+22:28 <@wltjr> musikc: no, just stating how I feel in my present position
+22:28 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, take time off and get to grips with your feelings
+22:28 <@wltjr> musikc: I am a very straight forward person, if I didn't say it, don't assume it, never read anything more into what I am saying then the words themselves
+22:28 < musikc> *sigh*
+22:28 <@wltjr> what I desire is results, time off does not achive that
+22:29 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, and words are such a poor form of communication
+22:29 <@wltjr> in what a month we will be technically half way into our year, and what we have accomplished so far is pretty minor IMHO
+22:29 < musikc> this is getting pointless. fmccor and NeddySeagoon thank you for the enlightening conversation. ill get back to you regarding the PR task. wltjr i really do hope you do something to relieve yourself of such misery and bitterness.
+22:29 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you can run too fast and stumble ... if you are demotivated, take a break
+22:29 <@fmccor> wltjr, I think we're done for today. As for the rest, do what seems best, I guess.
+22:29 <@wltjr> I said I was done twice already
+22:30 <@fmccor> wltjr, I'll always help any way I can.
+22:31 <@fmccor> musikc, Thanks again.
+22:31 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks musikc
+22:31 <@wltjr> fmccor: thanks
+22:31 <@fmccor> wltjr, You are welcome. Just ask.
+22:32 <@wltjr> fmccor: it's not a help issue it's a time issue
+22:32 <@wltjr> time to achieve results
+22:33 <@fmccor> Understood.
+22:33 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the two are interchangable while you can still divide the problem
+22:33 <@wltjr> time is moot when results are achieved, more time spent, less results, less motivation and interest
+22:38 <@fmccor> We'll get it done. Just perhaps not as quickly as we might like.
diff --git a/2008/june08.txt b/2008/june08.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..de8f51f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/june08.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,388 @@
+20:00 * NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order
+20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Roll call
+20:00 <@fmccor> I wasn't saying to join. I was mentioning its charactistics.
+20:00 <@fmccor> Here.
+20:00 <@tsunam> here in spirit only :-P
+20:00 <@fmccor> A ghost?
+20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, wltjr ?
+20:00 <@tsunam> yep its a dead day for me :_P
+20:01 <@fmccor> I think wltjr said he was time sharing with yard work.
+20:01 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yeah - we have a quorum, so we can start ... lets give tgall_foo a few minutes
+20:03 * wltjr is here in a uncomfortable presence
+20:03 <@NeddySeagoon> well, done ... ok, lets start
+20:03 <@NeddySeagoon> 1. Introductions does anyone not know us by now ?
+20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> moving swiftly on
+20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> 2. Actions From the Last Meeting
+20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Foundation Bylaws Status - wltjr care to summarise please ?
+20:05 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ?
+20:05 <@wltjr> I have nothing to say really, I agree with everything that was done at last meeting on the bylaws, but I was not present, kinda taking a back seat atm, because I am totally confused over Foundation purpose, membership, etc, but rest of the common stuff can be moved on I guess, which I think is where the last meeting left off, so no change
+20:06 -!- ahf [i=ahf@exherbo/developer/ahf] has joined #gentoo-trustees
+20:06 <@NeddySeagoon> The present trustees have looked over all the sections except 4 and 5
+20:07 <@NeddySeagoon> Next action * Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam
+20:07 <@wltjr> then I guess that's where we are at, I will participate and comment, but not looking to lead the effort wrt to the bylaws, never did but sorta became that way I think
+20:07 <@fmccor> I thought we said that for now we'd let Sec 4 reflect the status quo?
+20:07 <@tsunam> short answer, no real progress has been made on a bank. I've been unable to get enough free time during banking hours to make the calls neccessary
+20:07 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yeah I was of the opion you were leading
+20:07 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, can anyone else help ?
+20:08 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I don't mind per say, but didn't elect or ask for it, and I think many have opposition to me doing that, so would rather just be a part :)
+20:08 <@wltjr> tsunam: I am happy to I was going to offer
+20:08 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ok, well sort the details under AOB later
+20:08 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: that's worth considering
+20:08 <@wltjr> that's partly why I took no role, officer wise, so I could help out or fill in where needed :)
+20:08 <@tsunam> basically what they needed was the EIN and a bit of other information
+20:09 <@tsunam> so really not much
+20:09 <@wltjr> we have all that and more, just need funds and to decide which bank, but likely only a few like chase, citi, etc, big ones
+20:09 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, can you brief wltjr ?
+20:09 <@tsunam> wltjr: citi was the best one I saw overall
+20:09 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: it would mostly be coordinating initial deposit
+20:09 <@tsunam> wltjr: and most informative and helpful
+20:09 <@wltjr> tsunam: ok I have no quams there, they have a HUGE presence here :)
+20:09 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, It sounds like you are up to speed already
+20:09 <@wltjr> tsunam: > 5k and growing
+20:10 <@tsunam> wltjr: only catchpa we have is if the check from netbank is still good
+20:10 <@tsunam> which I need to just call grant as he's not responded to emails about it
+20:10 <@wltjr> tsunam: sure, or will need to somehow arrange an initial deposit/check something from PayPal just to prime the account
+20:10 <@tsunam> wltjr: aye
+20:10 <@tsunam> that's the other way
+20:10 <@wltjr> tsunam: then worse case instead of a check, we can do a wire transfer, account to account
+20:11 <@tsunam> wltjr: *nods*
+20:11 <@wltjr> tsunam: and from there, PayPal can be tied into bank account, and so on, rest is you :)
+20:11 <@NeddySeagoon> if the cheque is still good, grant an pay it in to his local branch
+20:11 <@tsunam> wltjr: yeah
+20:11 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: sure lots of options there
+20:11 <@tsunam> it's been ~1year plus...
+20:11 <@wltjr> only thing we have to do is prime the initial account to open it, and that would be like ~$100 or so
+20:11 <@tsunam> not sure lifetime on checks
+20:11 <@wltjr> depends if it's dated
+20:11 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Its our end of FY on 30 June - will you have time for the book keeping for that ?
+20:12 <@wltjr> if not dated, no expiration as long as funds are available
+20:12 <@wltjr> so cash grandma's check today, not years from now, or you might mess the old gal up :)
+20:12 <@NeddySeagoon> hehe
+20:12 <@fmccor> :)
+20:12 <@tsunam> wltjr: recall netbank is cloed
+20:13 <@tsunam> closed
+20:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: the check should still be good with the new bank that took over the assets
+20:13 <@wltjr> tsunam: sure but funds would likely be in some sort of trust or something, not sure there, but has to be some sort of rules, and availability
+20:13 <@tsunam> but might need to get the check reissued
+20:13 <@wltjr> if we lost the $ that would totally suck ass
+20:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: its not gone
+20:13 <@wltjr> but we can fight that battle another day, once we have a bank account
+20:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: just in a different location
+20:13 <@tsunam> *nods*
+20:13 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, it won't be gone
+20:13 <@wltjr> tsunam: we can have our bank help us there
+20:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: aye
+20:14 <@tsunam> anyways that's the status of the bank
+20:14 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks tsunam
+20:14 <@NeddySeagoon> 3. Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees ...
+20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> 117837 Funding request: wildcard SSL cert ... robbat2 seems to be having fun with CACert ... we can close this action
+20:15 <@tsunam> the CACert has been approved and is in place
+20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> 177966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities ... what was this about ?
+20:16 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: robbat2 is working that, I don't think we should close or mess with, but we are done there I believe
+20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks. We just need to keep an eye on it if we can't reassign it
+20:17 <@fmccor> 117837 was closed a month ago.
+20:17 <@NeddySeagoon> 217511 The Gentoo Store is Out of Date - this is a problem
+20:17 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thanks
+20:17 <@NeddySeagoon> A gentoo store in the USA is like an ash tray on a moderbike if you are in Europe
+20:18 <@fmccor> Ha.
+20:18 <@tsunam> simple solution would be to just remove all cd/dvd's from the store
+20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Thats been done on the web page
+20:19 * wltjr still likes the idea of having a third party agreement for sale and distribution of release media paying roylaties back to foundation
+20:19 <@fmccor> I'm not sure we've ever sold any.
+20:19 <@tsunam> cd's/dvds?
+20:19 <@tsunam> yes we have
+20:19 <@fmccor> wltjr, sounds good to me.
+20:19 <@wltjr> could do that with T-Shirts and more, and it could be done regionally
+20:19 <@tsunam> not many each release
+20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> What about appointing a store management committee. ? Coveing the USA and a few other countries ?
+20:19 <@wltjr> sure there is $ loss of dollar coversion, but that's moot
+20:20 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: to difficult, we just have some legal types draft up a policy and rules with % payback to foundation
+20:20 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: that's an option and a good possibility of the community being able to help
+20:20 <@wltjr> then if we need to, we sick pro bono council after them to enforce it or etc, but that shouldn't be much of an issue I think most would be pretty honest, it's not like they will be moving tons of product :)
+20:20 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, my point is that the trustees won't fix it unaided
+20:20 <@wltjr> and it could apply to more than just media
+20:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: do it hands off
+20:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: have a policy anyone can follow without asking
+20:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: just have to make sure anyone selling is sending checks to foundation, or sick attorneys on them
+20:21 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, that sounds good - as long as they know the policy exists
+20:22 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: publish it on g.o
+20:22 <@fmccor> We've already given approval to some developer in Russia to sell T shirts, I think.
+20:22 <@wltjr> link to it from home page or etc
+20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the proceeds won't pay for international attorneys
+20:22 <@wltjr> fmccor: exactly
+20:22 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I really don't see it coming to that much
+20:23 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you agree we need some help of some sort ?
+20:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I don't see anyone selling Gentoo stuff to be making a ton of $ off it, and if they really want to be petty and not give back ~20% or some small amount to keep making what ever $ they are, then we can find other ways
+20:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: not sure, I think the SFLC is international
+20:23 <@fmccor> We're never going to get rich from the store(s); it's more a PR & good will thing, and you need the license to protect trademarks.
+20:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we can use them at any time
+20:24 <@wltjr> we just need to establish a relationship, heck the company in CA that did the trademark might do that stuff, they seem pretty damn big and all into software and the like
+20:24 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, if we have a policy for 'anyone' to follow, nobody will - how will we make the store(s) happen ?
+20:24 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we don't the community does :)
+20:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: put another way, some might elect to sell and distribute our stuff anyway, and we would have to hunt down, find them, and deal just the same
+20:25 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you mean - create demand and the store just happens ?
+20:25 <@fmccor> People who want one will ask.
+20:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am just saying put out a policy and see what happens
+20:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: worse case in a year or so it totally fails we make a store or do something else
+20:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but we do have someone already doing that, and maybe others? not sure
+20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ok, if it doesn't work, we can be a bit more proactive
+20:26 <@wltjr> I am not sure if anyone followed up with dude in Russia or if store happened
+20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, care to summarise please ?
+20:26 <@wltjr> I don't believe we have gotten any $ from it, bug again not sure he has either
+20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, it was pva and he went away to do something
+20:27 <@fmccor> He's marked present here now --- could ask.
+20:27 < pva> Heh, and while I'm here I can give you some status update :)
+20:27 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we draft and have counsel review a general usage/sale policy for the G logo, t-shirts, mugs, etc, and release media, stipulating like 10-20% of net comes back to foundation based on $ amounts or something
+20:27 < pva> I'm working currently on setting up noncomercial organisation for our russian gentoo community
+20:28 <@NeddySeagoon> Thank you pva
+20:28 < pva> when I'll finish that (I still need to understand taxes) I'll be back to you )
+20:28 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, so who is going to do what, and by when ?
+20:28 <@fmccor> No one understands taxes, so that will be like never? :)
+20:29 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well I can see about drafting some sort of policy up, but not sure if we should have someone who knows about that stuff do it, or just review it afterward
+20:29 <@wltjr> we need to establish a relationship with some pro bono attorneys/counsel IMHO
+20:29 <@wltjr> not sure if the SFLC does stuff like that, or some other firm
+20:30 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Don't we have some in CA ?
+20:30 <@wltjr> considering we might want the same one to help enforce said policy :)
+20:30 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes, but I think they only dealt with past trustees, so we need to contact them
+20:30 < pva> BTW, I still have to read messages on nfp mailing list but I remember there was discussion about seal and I could be wrong but I've remembered that you were going to avoid it...
+20:30 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: likely best done initially by a paper official presence, like you or fmccor, pres or vp
+20:30 <@NeddySeagoon> we need an introduction from past trustees then
+20:31 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes, I think rl03 was going to intern there or something?
+20:31 < pva> I just wanted to say that if you are going to open subdivision in Russia you'll be required to have it :)
+20:31 <@fmccor> rl03 was the contact.
+20:31 <@wltjr> for sure he is the contact
+20:31 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, can you follow up on that ... we don't want to let the CA pro-bono thing we have lost interest
+20:32 <@NeddySeagoon> think*
+20:32 <@wltjr> surely not, given their work on the trademark
+20:32 <@fmccor> I'll chase Renat down.
+20:32 <@NeddySeagoon> ok - this will be your topic next meeting
+20:33 <@wltjr> fmccor: cool and once we are established with them, I can help out with discussions, draft etc on policy if need be, unless another wants to, or has time
+20:33 <@fmccor> Thanks, I guess.
+20:33 <@wltjr> er can make time, who has time :)
+20:33 <@wltjr> I want to meet him
+20:33 <@fmccor> Who?
+20:33 <@wltjr> fmccor: anyone who has time :)
+20:33 <@NeddySeagoon> 224689 Legal fees to for Reinstatement
+20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> I know its paid but why is the bug restricted ?
+20:34 <@tsunam> *shrugs*
+20:34 <@fmccor> No idea.
+20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> In the interests of openness, lets open it :)
+20:35 <@fmccor> Done.
+20:35 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks
+20:35 <@NeddySeagoon> Trustees and Foundation Article For the GMN
+20:36 <@NeddySeagoon> some time ago I asked what everyone thought of ^^^
+20:36 <@fmccor> I have not seen a bill for the reinstatement blunder, so perhaps he's not charging for that.
+20:36 <@wltjr> I can't do anything there, I have flaked to many times as is with helping out with GWN/GMN in any capacity, so will pass entirely
+20:36 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, lets not ask
+20:36 <@wltjr> fmccor: I thought it was all part of the one? that's why it was more than intially thought?
+20:36 <@fmccor> Ask? I wasn't going to call him and ask if he forgot to bill us.
+20:36 <@wltjr> :)
+20:37 <@fmccor> wltjr, The overrun was partly my fault --- telephone calls mostly.
+20:37 <@wltjr> if/when we leave him, I am sure he will let us know if we owe him anything, if we need anything from him in that process
+20:37 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, The idea is a mugshot a para of bio, a para each on our own aims, and para looking back to 1st March and a jpint para looking forard
+20:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: no worries, like I am short winded :)
+20:37 * fmccor is not
+20:38 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: oh that stuff, I try to be a background player, having effect, but not seen :)
+20:38 <@fmccor> (short winded)
+20:38 <@wltjr> my parents talk me to talk, but not stfu ;), gift of gab some would say :)
+20:38 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we could use a photo of your shadow :)
+20:38 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^
+20:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: my middle finger is nice ;) but I can take a pic, need to take another, been a few years, I think one of the last ones was from LWE
+20:39 <@tsunam> hmm
+20:39 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: about which
+20:39 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: no one would want to read about me :-P
+20:39 <@NeddySeagoon> GMN Trustee Special
+20:39 <@tsunam> I'd do it but...
+20:39 <@wltjr> I am not much on disclosing details on myself, other than random commenting, which I do occasionally permanently in email or etc, unless irc is being logged :)
+20:40 <@tsunam> wltjr: many of us log irc =)
+20:40 * tsunam has 2+ years of logs
+20:40 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but I can come up with something :)
+20:40 <@wltjr> tsunam: well not publiclly
+20:40 <@NeddySeagoon> Its good PR ... the community already knows our differences they don't know what we want to achieve together (we don't know that either)
+20:40 <@wltjr> tsunam: I don't care about individuals, but put something in email, or like on a news letter ,it will prosper :)
+20:40 <@fmccor> It's a way to show the community the trustees are real and the Foundation is alive.
+20:41 <@wltjr> sure sure, I agree, and will cooperate/comply for sure in some capacity
+20:41 * wltjr is short, has brown hair and is into Linux :)
+20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Oh they know that from reading wltjr :)
+20:41 <@fmccor> :)
+20:41 <@wltjr> quiet I am not, if I am in a room or etc it will be known, little dude, big presence :)
+20:41 <@fmccor> I think the most important part is the joint statement.
+20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm offering to write my section up first if you want a template
+20:42 <@fmccor> Please.
+20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> I agree about the joint statement - it will help us get our own thoughts together too
+20:42 <@fmccor> wltjr, Hm, so am I (all of those).
+20:43 <@wltjr> fmccor: maybe I am just an alias of you :)
+20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> 5. Should Trustees be Permitted to Serve on Council
+20:43 <@wltjr> I don't think so, but I believe a few of you all are running, and I respect that
+20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> Please discuss
+20:44 <@tsunam> I don't think one should neccessarily exclude the other
+20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, is running, tsunam and I declined
+20:44 <@wltjr> IMHO a officer, trustee, and council member should not be the same, and maybe not even rel's either, if that's controversial enough, I like separation and focus, with a variety of opinions
+20:44 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I've declined 3 times...that's not a surprise
+20:44 <@fmccor> It's already happened a couple times at least (wold31o2 & perhaps g2boojum).
+20:44 <@tsunam> cshields as well I believe
+20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, my concern is that any conflicts of interests weaken both bodies
+20:45 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: that's why you can abstain
+20:45 <@tsunam> and still have a majority vote
+20:45 <@wltjr> I respect both g2boojum and wolf3102 and their contributions to Gentoo, but I feel people can spread themselves to thin, and might unwilling limit their influence or effect in any one area
+20:45 <@fmccor> I don't see where the conflict arises. I'm missing something.
+20:45 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, that weakens the decisions
+20:45 <@tsunam> I disagree but
+20:45 <@fmccor> For me, I think devrel is the bigger conflict.
+20:45 <@wltjr> fmccor: not so much conflict, but focus and variety of opinion
+20:45 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I don't have any examples right now
+20:46 <@wltjr> how many normal organizations does someone have like 10 titles :)
+20:46 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, bey they only have one job
+20:46 <@fmccor> So it's potential. I see it the other way, it helps open the door to cooperation.
+20:46 <@wltjr> right now I am not doing anything on amd64, and next to nothing on Java, not entirely because of trustees, but partly
+20:46 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I see that too
+20:46 <@wltjr> yeah but for example if someone is rel, council, and foundation, that's one opinion
+20:47 <@wltjr> in 3 places :(
+20:47 <@wltjr> or 4
+20:47 <@wltjr> so it's not so much conflict, it's limited points of view
+20:47 <@tsunam> well another example. I'm Userrel, Devrel, and trustee
+20:47 <@tsunam> currently
+20:47 <@wltjr> and focus is not as narrow, so how well will any one be done
+20:47 * fmccor is too.
+20:47 <@wltjr> tsunam: sure, and for example don't have time for bank account stuff, which is totally fine, no worries there
+20:48 <@NeddySeagoon> To summarise then - its up to the individual, if they think they have the time, fine
+20:48 <@wltjr> but we all have real lives, jobs/businesses, etc, how much time can one give to Gentoo
+20:48 <@tsunam> wltjr: more so due to work commitments currently :(
+20:48 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am not sure we should leave everything up to people
+20:48 <@wltjr> we need fail safes at high levels IMHO
+20:48 <@wltjr> put someone in rel, council, foundation, etc and they are MIA, that's a big impact
+20:48 -!- pva [n=pva@gentoo/developer/pva] has left #gentoo-trustees ["Lost Carrier... Don't worry, I'll find it later."]
+20:48 <@wltjr> look at the loss of things like Jakub, what if we lost vapier, or others
+20:48 <@wltjr> wolf3102, no releases, etc
+20:49 <@fmccor> I proposed a policy a while ago to the effect that devrel members should not be on council --- it died stillborn.
+20:49 <@wltjr> so no variety of opinions, no narrow focus, big liablility, I don't see the benefit
+20:50 <@wltjr> what's to stop someone from being council this year, trustee next, rel another
+20:50 <@NeddySeagoon> I don't think we can set a policy here - we need to discuss it with the new council, sinceit would work both ways
+20:50 <@wltjr> why all at once? is that fair to others?
+20:50 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I agree
+20:50 <@fmccor> I do too.
+20:50 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: IMHO I think we need to make an effort to get a voting project setup
+20:50 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, maybe thats your conflict of interest (if you are elected)
+20:50 <@wltjr> so we can not only discuss with the council, but put forth controversial votes on a more regular basis
+20:50 <@wltjr> other than just elections
+20:51 <@fmccor> Yes, I mentioned that I thought devrel was more likely to be a conflict.
+20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, hehe :)
+20:51 <@fmccor> wltjr, I think that's happening? jmbsvicetto or rane would know.
+20:51 <@wltjr> I do respect all of those who have and do hold multiple positions, and my comments are not a reflection on them or their efforts, some what an observance, but surely meant respectfully
+20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> Ok, lets park that one until we have a new council
+20:52 <@wltjr> fmccor: yeah but I hope willingly, I kinda talked them into foundation election, and I am happy to see they are doing it with council as well
+20:52 <@fmccor> They want to set up the project.
+20:52 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I wanted to discuss it before it happened to me - but I declined my nomination
+20:53 <@NeddySeagoon> 6. Any other business
+20:53 <@fmccor> Well, the chances of my being elect are right around 0, so I don't see it as a problem. :)
+20:53 <@wltjr> fmccor: well given those that are running I might even vote for you :) even against my thoughts
+20:53 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, wait until the votes are counted :)
+20:53 <@NeddySeagoon> hehe
+20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> 6. Any other business
+20:54 <@fmccor> I'm not all that popular with current council. :)
+20:54 <@wltjr> but if foundation and council do controversial stuff and same people are on each, will look more like a coup d'etat
+20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Will you have time to do the end of FY stuff and present a treasuers report to the next meeting ?
+20:55 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: yep
+20:55 <@fmccor> wltjr, Hadn't thought of that. Yes, that could be a problem.
+20:55 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I'll have caught up on the reports
+20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll put that on Julys Agenda
+20:55 * fmccor wonders why we run July -- June.
+20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> thats all I had, tsunam anything ?
+20:56 <@wltjr> fmccor: summer time, no school/college :)
+20:56 * fmccor is well beyond that worry.
+20:56 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: did we approve the repayment for the reinstatement
+20:56 <@tsunam> I didn't see a yes no vote on it
+20:56 <@wltjr> fmccor: it was a joke, meaing young dev base :)
+20:56 <@tsunam> fmccor: I hear you on that one
+20:56 <@fmccor> I think we did.
+20:56 <@NeddySeagoon> You want a vote now ?
+20:57 <@NeddySeagoon> just for the recrod
+20:57 <@tsunam> well we've voted on others
+20:57 <@wltjr> do we really need to vote, who will oppose that?
+20:57 <@tsunam> lol
+20:57 <@fmccor> I think we voted on it once?
+20:57 <@tsunam> no one but
+20:57 <@tsunam> it is paying a trustee back so
+20:57 <@wltjr> it's a foundation necessity, and not an electable bill, we voted to retain Mr. Chew I believe, so any bills are implied to be paid
+20:57 <@wltjr> what's our policy there :) what do bylaws say?
+20:58 <@tsunam> I'd hope "get me my money" :-P
+20:58 <@wltjr> vote to approve reimbursement requests
+20:58 <@fmccor> Second.
+20:58 <@wltjr> I think that would depend on if the action was voted upon or not?
+20:58 <@wltjr> if action voted upon, no need to vote, if not voted on, then maybe vote depending on amount, but if small enough amount, IMHO treasurer should be able to decide
+20:59 <@fmccor> Things like reimbursement are legal obligations, no matter how we vote I think.
+20:59 * NeddySeagoon proposes a motion that tsunam be reimbursed in full for recent out of pocket expenses concerning the Gentoo Foundation reinstaement
+20:59 <@tsunam> would still like a vote in this case
+20:59 <@wltjr> fmccor: sorry, that was a statement :) more than something put forth to the floor
+20:59 <@tsunam> as it is to me
+20:59 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: second
+20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> Vote please
+20:59 <@wltjr> yeah
+20:59 <@fmccor> Yes.
+20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> yes
+20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ? you want to vote no ?
+20:59 <@tsunam> majority yes, so it passes. I'll take care of sending myself money
+21:00 <@tsunam> I'll vote yes
+21:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion carried
+21:00 * wltjr should have said no :) just to be a prick :)
+21:00 <@tsunam> wltjr: wouldn't of put it past you :-P
+21:00 <@wltjr> tsunam: if you really want a vote, chance is one could say no ;)
+21:00 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, anything else for AOB ?
+21:00 <@fmccor> It's still a legal obligation. :)
+21:01 <@fmccor> Not from me on AOB.
+21:01 <@wltjr> fmccor: what voting? I think only for things we stipluate to ourselves, but who would legally enforce it ;)
+21:01 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, AOB from you ?
+21:01 <@wltjr> fmccor: or even call us out on it
+21:01 <@tsunam> not that I'm aware of
+21:01 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no, other than private business, shower, etc :)
+21:01 <@fmccor> wltjr, No, paying our debts.
+21:02 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: did you want to set a time for another bylaws meeting, a final one for the last sections or what?
+21:02 <@wltjr> fmccor: well many people seem to find ways out of that these days, so I am sure the foundation could as well :)
+21:02 <@fmccor> Yeah, Let's close the books on that, so to speak.
+21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Ah thabk you wltjr - What about 1900UTC on Sunday ?
+21:02 <@fmccor> Sunday next?
+21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> yes
+21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> 29 June
+21:03 <@fmccor> Fine with me.
+21:03 <@wltjr> yeah, might as well bite the bullet, weekend after is 4th
+21:03 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: our independence day :)
+21:03 <@fmccor> Just not 6 July, please (end of a holiday weekend).
+21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> whats special about 4th ?
+21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> :)
+21:03 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we became a country, we all party
+21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> you bit :)
+21:03 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we split from UK :)
+21:04 <@fmccor> Worship the president, ...
+21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> 7. Open floor
+21:04 <@wltjr> practice pyroism
+21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more from anyone ?
+21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> An Date of Next Meeting - 13 July on my calander ... is that right
+21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am not sure we will get large attendences on weekends
+21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: might be something to discuss next meeting, other possible times
+21:05 <@fmccor> No, this time is terrible. It was the only time we were all available.
+21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but once we are back to 1 meeting per month might be moot
+21:06 * wltjr hears the beach calling about this time on the weekends :) and weekdays as well, hookie time :)
+21:06 <@fmccor> Lucky wltjr.
+21:06 <@NeddySeagoon> So, 13 July 1900UTC for next monthly meeting (we delayed a week this month for Fathers daty)
+21:06 <@wltjr> fmccor: choice, I make a bit less than living else where, but wanted the life style, it's what I grew up with, $ will be there eventually
+21:07 -!- ahf [i=ahf@exherbo/developer/ahf] has left #gentoo-trustees ["boring"]
+21:07 <@wltjr> need to make some more before I can move to beach if I decide to, it's about ~20 minutes away atm, still not bad
+21:07 <@fmccor> There's a vote of confidence.
+21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, in what ?
+21:08 <@fmccor> The "has left" message. :)
+21:08 * wltjr ignores those
+21:08 <@wltjr> one of the nice features of irssi, which I am still a total newb to
+21:08 <@fmccor> I was making a joke. Not a good one, I guess.
+21:09 <@wltjr> fmccor: that or combined IQ is to low :)
+21:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Are we done then ?
+21:09 <@fmccor> Seems so.
+21:09 <@tsunam> k
+21:09 <@tsunam> have a good afternoon
+21:09 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: seems so, no one else has anything to say really, and conv has turned to chatter
+21:10 <@wltjr> yep, same here, have a good one, I am off to smell better
+21:10 <@NeddySeagoon> Sun 29 June for bylaws 13 Jul next meeting both 1900
+21:10 <@fmccor> Will tgall_foo do the minutes? Should be able to from the log.
+21:10 <@wltjr> fmccor: can give him a bit, and if not, one of us can
+21:10 <@fmccor> Er, summary.
+21:10 <@fmccor> OK.
diff --git a/2008/november08.txt b/2008/november08.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..6b31a53
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/november08.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,317 @@
+(11/16/2008 01:00:01 PM) ***NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order.
+(11/16/2008 01:00:13 PM) ***quantumsummers|Corsair represents dmwaters as proxy via phone
+(11/16/2008 01:00:22 PM) ***fmccor is here
+(11/16/2008 01:00:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: thanks
+(11/16/2008 01:00:30 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, ??
+(11/16/2008 01:00:46 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, She's a neat person. You'll enjoy the conversation.
+(11/16/2008 01:00:48 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, can you call tsunam please
+(11/16/2008 01:01:04 PM) fmccor: Hold on, yes.
+(11/16/2008 01:01:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: 1. Introductions - none needed
+(11/16/2008 01:01:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: 2. Actions From the Last Meeting
+(11/16/2008 01:03:15 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, No answer --- I left a voice mail. He hasn't been around much, perhaps away on business or pleasure.
+(11/16/2008 01:03:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok, we are quarate ... so we can continue
+(11/16/2008 01:04:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam ... skipped but there has been some snail mail regarding or EIN
+(11/16/2008 01:04:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats all I know
+(11/16/2008 01:04:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: Certified Public Accountant - quantumsummers update please
+(11/16/2008 01:04:40 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes, so I have 2 candidates
+(11/16/2008 01:05:04 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: one local & is the one I mentioned earlier
+(11/16/2008 01:05:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: both pro bono ?
+(11/16/2008 01:05:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: to free services we need to banking info
+(11/16/2008 01:05:36 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: to get free services
+(11/16/2008 01:05:53 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, did you get that from grant or tsunam ?
+(11/16/2008 01:06:00 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: but either way its cheap to get the taxes done
+(11/16/2008 01:06:11 PM) ***quantumsummers|Corsair is typing & talking
+(11/16/2008 01:07:08 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I have been waiting on bank statements & paypal info.
+(11/16/2008 01:07:36 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok - poke tsunam ...
+(11/16/2008 01:07:53 PM) NeddySeagoon: Can you add anything more without the finacials ?
+(11/16/2008 01:07:54 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I was unsuccessful talking to ING, regarding netbank.
+(11/16/2008 01:08:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: Hmm ok ... try grant for old paperwork but the statements may have been online :(
+(11/16/2008 01:08:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: Deedra needs to know how much $ Gentoo has at this moment
+(11/16/2008 01:09:27 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I have no access to any online statements
+(11/16/2008 01:09:28 PM) NeddySeagoon: Deedra please take that up with tsunam
+(11/16/2008 01:10:03 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, that will be down to grant and/or tsunam
+(11/16/2008 01:10:12 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok
+(11/16/2008 01:10:19 PM) NeddySeagoon: Moving on ...
+(11/16/2008 01:10:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I will email
+(11/16/2008 01:10:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: International Licencing For Gentoo Merchandise - fmccor
+(11/16/2008 01:11:04 PM) fmccor: We know what's going on with e.V., and are awaiting a response from them in January.
+(11/16/2008 01:11:21 PM) fmccor: Right now they hold the trademark in Europe.
+(11/16/2008 01:11:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, yep ... what about our international trademark lawyers ?
+(11/16/2008 01:11:59 PM) fmccor: As for elsewhere, we'd work with whoever wants the agreement and with our lawyers to put something together.
+(11/16/2008 01:12:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: On a case by case basis ?
+(11/16/2008 01:12:16 PM) fmccor: Nothing for them to do until we need something.
+(11/16/2008 01:12:33 PM) fmccor: Has to be case by case, because laws are different everywhere.
+(11/16/2008 01:12:41 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok ... next
+(11/16/2008 01:12:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: Send friendly cease and desist emails to copyright infringers spotted on cafepress - quantumsummers
+(11/16/2008 01:13:15 PM) fmccor: The general outline will be the same everywhere, but every place will have its own peculiarities.
+(11/16/2008 01:13:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I am working on this. Sorry for slacking, but I will send this out on Monday & return with a full report.
+(11/16/2008 01:13:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(11/16/2008 01:13:59 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: My appoogies
+(11/16/2008 01:14:04 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: arg
+(11/16/2008 01:14:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: apologies
+(11/16/2008 01:14:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats why we have these meetings, partly. To chase slackers :)
+(11/16/2008 01:14:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: Propose wording to open Foundation Membership - update bylaws tracker bug -fmccor I think this is completed and embodied in the new draft ?
+(11/16/2008 01:15:28 PM) fmccor: It's fine with me. My only comment at this point was a typo in 4.4
+(11/16/2008 01:15:39 PM) fmccor: "there" --> "their"
+(11/16/2008 01:16:01 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters is fine
+(11/16/2008 01:16:08 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: with the proposed changes
+(11/16/2008 01:16:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, ok, do in need to fix it prior to Agenda item 3 ?
+(11/16/2008 01:16:33 PM) fmccor: ?
+(11/16/2008 01:17:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: the bylaws ... we can adopt them with that one change outstanding ... agenda item 3.
+(11/16/2008 01:17:37 PM) tsunam: bah..wasn't it suppossed to be at 12 again today?
+(11/16/2008 01:17:38 PM) fmccor: Sure.
+(11/16/2008 01:17:39 PM) NeddySeagoon: Clarify Trustee/Officer roles to enable a Trustee/Officer role split - update bylaws tracker bug -fmccor Is that complete too ?
+(11/16/2008 01:18:01 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, your hour changed on Nov 2nd
+(11/16/2008 01:18:14 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: right, but I thought we were keeping it at 12 *shrugs*
+(11/16/2008 01:18:16 PM) tsunam: apparently not
+(11/16/2008 01:18:22 PM) fmccor: I think it was always complete --- no change is needed to split trustee/officer role.
+(11/16/2008 01:18:32 PM) NeddySeagoon: Its 19:00 UTC whenever that is
+(11/16/2008 01:18:45 PM) tsunam: hehe
+(11/16/2008 01:18:55 PM) fmccor: The bylaws assume a split and explain what happens when there isn't one.
+(11/16/2008 01:19:01 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, ok
+(11/16/2008 01:19:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: next ..
+(11/16/2008 01:19:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: Working with Gentoo e.V. - fmccor
+(11/16/2008 01:19:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: hi tsunam
+(11/16/2008 01:20:00 PM) fmccor: We have proposed this to them and suggested a couple possibilities, their response asks us pleas to wait to see what happens at their Jan meeting.
+(11/16/2008 01:20:10 PM) tsunam: k
+(11/16/2008 01:20:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: thank you
+(11/16/2008 01:20:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: lets go back to banking
+(11/16/2008 01:20:29 PM) NeddySeagoon: Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam
+(11/16/2008 01:21:05 PM) tsunam: need to resubmit stuff for the bank, need to call the government to see if they've finally updated the address so I can get the ein number document so we have it
+(11/16/2008 01:21:13 PM) tsunam: when I checked about 2-3 weeks ago they hadn't
+(11/16/2008 01:21:24 PM) tsunam: and that was a month or so after I'd submitted the change request
+(11/16/2008 01:21:49 PM) tsunam: however..
+(11/16/2008 01:21:54 PM) tsunam: http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/funds.xml <---there's been updates
+(11/16/2008 01:22:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: I guess the government is busy with elections and banking crisis :)
+(11/16/2008 01:22:31 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: excellent tsunam, thank you
+(11/16/2008 01:22:33 PM) tsunam: apparently!
+(11/16/2008 01:22:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, thanks - thats progress
+(11/16/2008 01:22:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: tsunam: 404 Error Message: Page Not Found
+(11/16/2008 01:22:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/2007q1.xml
+(11/16/2008 01:22:58 PM) tsunam: course I need to fix a few it appears!
+(11/16/2008 01:23:06 PM) tsunam: 2006 works at least *laughs*
+(11/16/2008 01:23:26 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: is there a rough draft available?
+(11/16/2008 01:24:07 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: Ending balance for Q4-2007 ?
+(11/16/2008 01:24:28 PM) tsunam: quantumsummers: not currently
+(11/16/2008 01:24:43 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok
+(11/16/2008 01:24:50 PM) tsunam: I wil need to do the 3 quarters in 2008 as well
+(11/16/2008 01:24:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, do you have a completion date for getting that page up to date ?
+(11/16/2008 01:24:57 PM) tsunam: and add 2007/2008 contributors
+(11/16/2008 01:25:14 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: tsunam: dmwaters (via proxy) wants to know what our balance is currently
+(11/16/2008 01:25:18 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: hopefully next week. I need to get last quarters 3 months
+(11/16/2008 01:25:24 PM) tsunam: excluding banking
+(11/16/2008 01:25:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, soounds good
+(11/16/2008 01:25:28 PM) tsunam: which is a check
+(11/16/2008 01:25:39 PM) tsunam: *looks*
+(11/16/2008 01:25:54 PM) tsunam: assuming firefox doesn't crash
+(11/16/2008 01:26:17 PM) tsunam: hmm
+(11/16/2008 01:26:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters would like the balance to better inform her voting
+(11/16/2008 01:26:49 PM) tsunam: *grumbles at paypal*
+(11/16/2008 01:27:48 PM) NeddySeagoon: lets move on while paypal thinks ...
+(11/16/2008 01:28:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: 3. Consider and approve (if thought fit) revised bylaws
+(11/16/2008 01:28:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: The bylaws have been updated in line with the tracker bug ... apart from a typo.
+(11/16/2008 01:28:58 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor It's fine with me. My only comment at this point was a typo in 4.4
+(11/16/2008 01:29:39 PM) tsunam: just shy of 20k
+(11/16/2008 01:29:42 PM) NeddySeagoon: Do we need to discuss or is there a motion to adopt the revised bylaws ?
+(11/16/2008 01:29:43 PM) fmccor: "Their" is spelled "there"
+(11/16/2008 01:29:49 PM) fmccor: So moved
+(11/16/2008 01:30:09 PM) NeddySeagoon: Is there a seconder ?
+(11/16/2008 01:30:30 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters seconds
+(11/16/2008 01:30:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: thank you ...
+(11/16/2008 01:30:49 PM) NeddySeagoon: Now to the vote ...
+(11/16/2008 01:31:00 PM) fmccor: Yes.
+(11/16/2008 01:31:07 PM) tsunam: yes
+(11/16/2008 01:31:08 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters: in favor
+(11/16/2008 01:31:18 PM) ***NeddySeagoon yes
+(11/16/2008 01:31:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: unanimous
+(11/16/2008 01:31:39 PM) NeddySeagoon: carried unamaously (sp)
+(11/16/2008 01:32:21 PM) NeddySeagoon: We need to notify members ...
+(11/16/2008 01:32:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: shall I draft an email?
+(11/16/2008 01:32:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, yes please
+(11/16/2008 01:32:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: linking to the new bylaws & this meeting
+(11/16/2008 01:32:58 PM) NeddySeagoon: include the GMN too
+(11/16/2008 01:33:03 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: very well
+(11/16/2008 01:33:11 PM) NeddySeagoon: 4. Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
+(11/16/2008 01:33:48 PM) NeddySeagoon: 177966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities ... I've closed that with a comment pointing to the bylaws
+(11/16/2008 01:34:03 PM) NeddySeagoon: 217511 The Gentoo Store is Out of Date - musikc
+(11/16/2008 01:34:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, is musikc around ?
+(11/16/2008 01:34:31 PM) tsunam: not sure if she's around right now
+(11/16/2008 01:34:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: Its about a month since I've seen her on IRC
+(11/16/2008 01:35:06 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: this should likely be closed, as musikc updated the store
+(11/16/2008 01:35:18 PM) tsunam: tsunam * gentoo/xml/htdocs/foundation/en/ (2007q1.xml 2007q2.xml 2007q3.xml 2007q4.xml): its good to actually cvs add them
+(11/16/2008 01:35:20 PM) fmccor: I spoke with her a couple weeks ago briefly.
+(11/16/2008 01:35:24 PM) tsunam: ^^^ should be fixed in ~ hour
+(11/16/2008 01:35:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: musikc, has done some short term fixes ... she was working on long term maintainance
+(11/16/2008 01:36:17 PM) NeddySeagoon: 236863 Bylaws Tracker Bug ... I guess we should close that and start a new one
+(11/16/2008 01:37:52 PM) fmccor: Or just note on it that there's nothing outstanding as of the date of the comment.
+(11/16/2008 01:37:57 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters agrees with closing the existing bug & open new, tracking the newly approved bylaws
+(11/16/2008 01:38:01 PM) NeddySeagoon: I've closed it
+(11/16/2008 01:38:08 PM) fmccor: :)
+(11/16/2008 01:38:50 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, 56711 Retire: Renat Lumpau (rl03) I thought you were in discussions with rl03 ?
+(11/16/2008 01:39:33 PM) fmccor: I haven't spoken with him at all recently. I'd close this one and let nature take its course.
+fmccor fmccor|away
+(11/16/2008 01:40:01 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters agrees with fmccor
+(11/16/2008 01:40:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, give it one more try then post a comment on the bug please
+(11/16/2008 01:40:11 PM) fmccor: If I was supposed to be contacting him, I flat out forgot about it.
+(11/16/2008 01:40:19 PM) fmccor: Will do.
+(11/16/2008 01:40:21 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ahha
+(11/16/2008 01:40:39 PM) NeddySeagoon: 245227 Replacement Drive for Osprey ... blanket limit for repairs
+(11/16/2008 01:41:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: We should set a $ limit for infra repairs so we don't have to vote on this sort of stuff
+(11/16/2008 01:42:10 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: $X/month?
+(11/16/2008 01:42:13 PM) tsunam: well I'd like to know the total number of servers we own and their age
+(11/16/2008 01:42:21 PM) NeddySeagoon: either per repair or an annual repair budget
+(11/16/2008 01:42:21 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I would too
+(11/16/2008 01:42:23 PM) tsunam: to make an informed decision about that
+(11/16/2008 01:42:38 PM) tsunam: the older the boxes the more there needs to be in the repair budget
+(11/16/2008 01:42:47 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I can write a little asset tracker app for this
+(11/16/2008 01:42:49 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, or replaced.
+(11/16/2008 01:42:51 PM) tsunam: and if we own say 2 boxes...shouldn't need that much annually
+(11/16/2008 01:43:05 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters is aware of some rather old machines
+(11/16/2008 01:43:12 PM) fmccor: robbat2 can provide that.
+(11/16/2008 01:43:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: We should need to vote funds for replacement but not always for repairs
+(11/16/2008 01:43:24 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: aye..but that's a seperate issue for budget
+(11/16/2008 01:43:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, agreed
+(11/16/2008 01:43:49 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: appears that a reasonable monthly $ amount is necessary for repairs
+(11/16/2008 01:44:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: anyway, the issue right now is Osprey ... the bug has two approving trustees ... we need one more
+(11/16/2008 01:44:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: longer term, this process needs to be slicker
+(11/16/2008 01:44:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters likes voting on replacement of machines (i.e. large expenses), but prefers no vote for small repairs
+(11/16/2008 01:45:18 PM) tsunam: it has mine
+(11/16/2008 01:45:18 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters votes yes
+(11/16/2008 01:45:24 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: unanimous
+(11/16/2008 01:46:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: We can buy the drive and send it to OUSL or robbat can and be reimbursed.
+(11/16/2008 01:46:11 PM) fmccor: Probably easiest to "Paypal" the $48 or whatever it is to ramereth
+(11/16/2008 01:46:19 PM) tsunam: sadly not right now
+(11/16/2008 01:46:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, ok
+(11/16/2008 01:46:29 PM) tsunam: no ability to paypal from one paypal account to another
+(11/16/2008 01:46:42 PM) tsunam: that's related to the lack of an active bank account
+(11/16/2008 01:46:48 PM) tsunam: best I could do is mail a check
+(11/16/2008 01:46:48 PM) fmccor: Oh.
+(11/16/2008 01:46:53 PM) tsunam: via paypal =/
+(11/16/2008 01:47:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: hehe .. that would be a personal cheque from you though ?
+(11/16/2008 01:47:24 PM) tsunam: nope
+(11/16/2008 01:47:30 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: are you certain you can send a check via paypal?
+(11/16/2008 01:47:36 PM) tsunam: *nods*
+(11/16/2008 01:47:51 PM) fmccor: That works. As long as they know that's happening, I'd think that between them they could get the drive.
+(11/16/2008 01:47:58 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, discuss it with ramereth please
+(11/16/2008 01:47:59 PM) tsunam: i had just looked there's a 500 dollar limit currently per month
+(11/16/2008 01:48:07 PM) tsunam: will do
+(11/16/2008 01:48:23 PM) NeddySeagoon: longer term what do we need ?
+(11/16/2008 01:48:32 PM) NeddySeagoon: Info to set a budget I suppose ?
+(11/16/2008 01:48:39 PM) tsunam: yep
+(11/16/2008 01:48:42 PM) fmccor: Yes.
+(11/16/2008 01:49:18 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, can you write up what info you need and email it to trustees@ and infras alias please
+(11/16/2008 01:49:26 PM) tsunam: sure
+(11/16/2008 01:49:32 PM) NeddySeagoon: tanks
+(11/16/2008 01:49:36 PM) tsunam: as far as a budget or ?
+(11/16/2008 01:50:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: Information ... if you want infra to suggest a number, theres no harm in that but we don't have to agree it
+(11/16/2008 01:50:19 PM) tsunam: k
+(11/16/2008 01:50:21 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters thinks $200 is appropriate for a blanket amount to be used emergency repairs
+(11/16/2008 01:50:37 PM) tsunam: that'd cover a hard drive or two
+(11/16/2008 01:50:45 PM) tsunam: but wouldn't likely cover a raid controller for instance
+(11/16/2008 01:50:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: robbat2 has some ideas too but hes marked |na just now
+(11/16/2008 01:50:54 PM) tsunam: its a tough thing to come up with :-P
+(11/16/2008 01:51:11 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok ... next
+(11/16/2008 01:51:19 PM) NeddySeagoon: Treasurers Report for FY ending 30 June 2008
+(11/16/2008 01:51:33 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: just a sec
+(11/16/2008 01:52:14 PM) tsunam: I hadn't quite got to the point as I've not gotten the last 2 quarters of the 2008 fy done
+(11/16/2008 01:52:17 PM) tsunam: just the first half
+(11/16/2008 01:52:21 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters would like approval on any expenditure over $200 due to current income expectations. acceptance done via email by majority of trustees
+(11/16/2008 01:52:28 PM) tsunam: I got tied up far too long with work this month :(
+(11/16/2008 01:52:42 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, Sounds reasonable
+(11/16/2008 01:52:50 PM) tsunam: dmwaters is aware what our current income per quarter is correct?
+(11/16/2008 01:53:17 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: wellm it appears to be ~1K/month in 2006
+(11/16/2008 01:53:18 PM) tsunam: or at least historically been
+(11/16/2008 01:53:28 PM) tsunam: 1-2k is approximately correct
+(11/16/2008 01:54:19 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters stands by here earlier statement regarding a $200 limit
+(11/16/2008 01:54:26 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: *her
+(11/16/2008 01:55:08 PM) NeddySeagoon: dmwaters idea is noted we will take it into account when we formulate budgets. The $200 limit could be applied in other areas too, its just infra brought the topic up
+(11/16/2008 01:55:27 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, I think robbat2 was OK with that for things other than major acquisitions.
+(11/16/2008 01:55:50 PM) ***NeddySeagoon doesn't wok well in $
+(11/16/2008 01:55:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: work*
+(11/16/2008 01:55:59 PM) fmccor: That would be a capital budget rather than expense budget.
+(11/16/2008 01:56:28 PM) fmccor: RIght now, 1 Euro is about $1.25 or $1.30
+(11/16/2008 01:56:48 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, I don't do Euros either :)
+(11/16/2008 01:57:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: moving on
+(11/16/2008 01:57:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: 6. Foundation Knowledge Management Needs
+(11/16/2008 01:57:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, this was yours ...
+(11/16/2008 01:58:02 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I did post the initial spec to the mailing list
+(11/16/2008 01:58:11 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: work is on-going
+(11/16/2008 01:58:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: any update ?
+(11/16/2008 01:58:37 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I have a membership app, I have a form to collect & tag any file
+(11/16/2008 01:59:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, just in time for the stampeed to join our Foundation
+(11/16/2008 01:59:12 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: working on parsing emails
+(11/16/2008 01:59:49 PM) NeddySeagoon: natural language processing is a lifes work
+(11/16/2008 02:00:01 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: heh, just tagging some things
+(11/16/2008 02:00:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: Moving on ..
+(11/16/2008 02:00:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: 7. Actions From Previous Meetings on hold for one or more actions above ...
+(11/16/2008 02:00:57 PM) fmccor: $1.00 = £0.669
+(11/16/2008 02:01:40 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: can we use paypal to sent the $200 for IP fees?
+(11/16/2008 02:01:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: Licencing For emtom.cz and Licencing For Projektfarm GmbH thats really for the eV just now. Lets keep that on hold until Jan 2009
+(11/16/2008 02:02:24 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, ^^
+(11/16/2008 02:02:32 PM) tsunam: hmm
+(11/16/2008 02:02:44 PM) tsunam: which ip fee's?
+(11/16/2008 02:02:50 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, That is not a critical item, but should be done.
+(11/16/2008 02:02:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: Fix name and address on IPR/trademark documents, 31 Aug 2008 meeting authorised the $200 fees (needs a bank)
+(11/16/2008 02:03:00 PM) fmccor: We own two trademarks in the US.
+(11/16/2008 02:03:02 PM) tsunam: ah
+(11/16/2008 02:03:05 PM) tsunam: yes
+(11/16/2008 02:03:11 PM) fmccor: Need to fix the address at some point.
+(11/16/2008 02:03:18 PM) tsunam: I can certainly send it via check, just need an address
+(11/16/2008 02:03:30 PM) NeddySeagoon: may as well get it moving ...
+(11/16/2008 02:03:52 PM) tsunam: btw quarterly reports for 2007 are up now
+(11/16/2008 02:04:01 PM) fmccor: tsunam, Bug me for it tomorrow. I need to coordinate with the lawyer before sending money.
+(11/16/2008 02:04:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(11/16/2008 02:04:14 PM) tsunam: fmccor: sure
+(11/16/2008 02:04:27 PM) tsunam: fmccor: if I remember, I suspect tomorrow at work will be a bit crazy
+(11/16/2008 02:04:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: 8. Any other business
+(11/16/2008 02:04:47 PM) fmccor: tsunam, Actually, she's a neighbor of yours, I think. You could just drop in. :)
+(11/16/2008 02:04:48 PM) NeddySeagoon: dmwaters ?
+(11/16/2008 02:05:03 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: none for dmwaters
+(11/16/2008 02:05:11 PM) tsunam: fmccor: probably
+(11/16/2008 02:05:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, AoB ?
+(11/16/2008 02:05:19 PM) tsunam: none
+(11/16/2008 02:05:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, ?
+(11/16/2008 02:05:29 PM) fmccor: None
+(11/16/2008 02:05:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: I have a few things ...
+(11/16/2008 02:05:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: DoNM ...
+(11/16/2008 02:06:19 PM) NeddySeagoon: 14 December 1900 UTC
+(11/16/2008 02:06:48 PM) NeddySeagoon: and setting a recording date.
+(11/16/2008 02:06:49 PM) tsunam: fine by me
+(11/16/2008 02:07:03 PM) fmccor: Should work for me.
+(11/16/2008 02:08:00 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwatters is uncertain of her availability
+(11/16/2008 02:08:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats the due date .. we'll go with it
+(11/16/2008 02:08:50 PM) NeddySeagoon: and ...
+(11/16/2008 02:08:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: Earliest date for new bylaws 2 Dec 2008
+(11/16/2008 02:08:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: Trustee Election Nominations open 1 Feb 2009
+(11/16/2008 02:08:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: Trustee Voting opens 1 Mar 2009
+(11/16/2008 02:08:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: New Trustees take office End Mar 2009
+(11/16/2008 02:09:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: we have to give 15 days notice to our members - the new bylaws come into effect on 2 Dec
+(11/16/2008 02:09:47 PM) tsunam: k
+(11/16/2008 02:10:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: We could accept but not process applications for membership before that time
+(11/16/2008 02:10:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters is amenable
+(11/16/2008 02:10:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: To allow nominations to open on 1 Feb, we need a recording date a few weeks beforehand
+(11/16/2008 02:11:17 PM) NeddySeagoon: say early jan
+(11/16/2008 02:11:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: The 11 Jan 09 is our january meeting, so I'm proposing that.
+(11/16/2008 02:12:15 PM) fmccor: Good with me.
+(11/16/2008 02:12:27 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters is happy with that
+(11/16/2008 02:12:30 PM) NeddySeagoon: Anyone who becomes a member after 11 Jan, does not get to stand or vote in the 2009 election
+(11/16/2008 02:13:08 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: dmwaters: ok
+(11/16/2008 02:13:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: We will have a new standing agenda item ... membership applications
+(11/16/2008 02:13:35 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, anything ?
+(11/16/2008 02:13:54 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: would you like me to create the form?
+(11/16/2008 02:14:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, we need to be sure we gather all the required information, so yes please.
+(11/16/2008 02:14:53 PM) NeddySeagoon: leave a pile of forms by the dev lounge coffee machine too :)
+(11/16/2008 02:14:56 PM) fmccor: For developers, do we need more than an email?
+(11/16/2008 02:15:00 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, I will make a draft & post to trustees@
+(11/16/2008 02:15:49 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, probably. we need gpg key too ... its all in the bylaws
+(11/16/2008 02:16:03 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes key is needed
+(11/16/2008 02:16:19 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: to sign votes, etc
+(11/16/2008 02:16:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, you need to get the bylaws announcement out today/tomorrow. The 15 days counts from the announce
+(11/16/2008 02:16:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: Ok, I can do it later today
+(11/16/2008 02:17:53 PM) NeddySeagoon: jmbsvicetto, had some concerns about voting but hes not around
+(11/16/2008 02:18:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: any more for any more ... or its Open Floor
+(11/16/2008 02:18:40 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: not here
+(11/16/2008 02:18:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: 9. Open floor
+(11/16/2008 02:19:35 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: any business?
+(11/16/2008 02:19:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: I think we are done ...
+(11/16/2008 02:20:00 PM) NeddySeagoon: Meeting closed, thanks everyone
diff --git a/2008/october08.txt b/2008/october08.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..86923d1
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/october08.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,455 @@
+(10/19/2008 02:00:01 PM) ***NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order
+(10/19/2008 02:00:18 PM) ***quantumsummers|Corsair is present
+(10/19/2008 02:00:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: dmwaters isn't here ... we need tsunam
+(10/19/2008 02:01:09 PM) fmccor: Let me try to call him.
+(10/19/2008 02:01:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(10/19/2008 02:02:09 PM) ***NeddySeagoon muses about schrodingers' fmccor being both here and away at the same time
+(10/19/2008 02:02:31 PM) fmccor: He's on his way.
+(10/19/2008 02:02:36 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(10/19/2008 02:02:50 PM) tsunam: yep i'm here
+(10/19/2008 02:02:55 PM) fmccor: :)
+(10/19/2008 02:03:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: Fine - we have a quorum
+(10/19/2008 02:03:13 PM) fmccor: I hope Deedra's OK.
+(10/19/2008 02:03:27 PM) fmccor: (Well, she's sick)
+(10/19/2008 02:03:30 PM) NeddySeagoon: here note didn't say much ...
+(10/19/2008 02:03:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: Skip Introductions.
+(10/19/2008 02:03:50 PM) NeddySeagoon: Item 2 Actions From the Last Meeting
+(10/19/2008 02:03:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam ?
+(10/19/2008 02:05:06 PM) tsunam: ferris and I signed a document for the bank. What was told to us was different then what was required. So we will need to resubmit and the woman who's actually dealing with it will need to EIN certificate as well. I'll call the irs next week and see if the registered address has changed yet and if so get them to send that out
+(10/19/2008 02:05:22 PM) tsunam: basically the corp needs to be first and then ferris and I are cosigners
+(10/19/2008 02:05:36 PM) tsunam: very minor technical difference but we'll have to resubmit that document
+(10/19/2008 02:05:56 PM) tsunam: fmccor: and yes I did get the paper copy from you. sorry I forgot to mention that
+(10/19/2008 02:06:08 PM) fmccor: I figured you did.
+(10/19/2008 02:06:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: things are moving in the right direction. any eta for the IRS doing its thing ?
+(10/19/2008 02:06:32 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: its the government I hope on updating the address..they'd be quick
+(10/19/2008 02:06:38 PM) tsunam: I've given them ~2 weeks so far
+(10/19/2008 02:06:45 PM) tsunam: so I hope its been updated and I can get that informaiton
+(10/19/2008 02:06:56 PM) tsunam: so we can get it to the bank and get an account finally
+(10/19/2008 02:06:58 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, you have more faith in your government than I do in mine
+(10/19/2008 02:07:20 PM) fmccor: Our government is paralyzed right now.
+(10/19/2008 02:07:28 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, is it worth approaching grant for the cheque now that things are moving ?
+(10/19/2008 02:07:41 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: I think it might
+(10/19/2008 02:07:49 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, Oh yeah, election year
+(10/19/2008 02:08:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, then we might have the cheque when the paperwork is in order
+(10/19/2008 02:08:20 PM) fmccor: And our president has quit about 3 months early.
+(10/19/2008 02:08:35 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, Oh, I missed that
+(10/19/2008 02:08:56 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, I mean metaphorically --- he's quit doing anything much at all.
+(10/19/2008 02:08:58 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: we also have a check coming eventially from google as well
+(10/19/2008 02:09:21 PM) NeddySeagoon: yep, so there will be funds to deposit when we are ready
+(10/19/2008 02:09:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: lets move on
+(10/19/2008 02:09:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: Fix name and address on IPR/trademark documents, 31 Aug 2008 meeting authorised the $200 fees (needs a bank)
+(10/19/2008 02:09:50 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats on hold
+(10/19/2008 02:10:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: Trustees and Foundation Article For the GMN - (On hold while we are under strenght) ... I was supposed to do something with that and I haven't :( sorry
+(10/19/2008 02:10:22 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: .the google check id for gsoc?
+(10/19/2008 02:10:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: *is
+(10/19/2008 02:10:40 PM) fmccor: It's probably only $100 (I think we have 1 trademark), and it really matters only for threatening people in the US.
+(10/19/2008 02:10:42 PM) tsunam: yes quantumsummers
+(10/19/2008 02:11:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, I thought we had two "Gentoo Linux" and the G logo
+(10/19/2008 02:11:42 PM) fmccor: I can't figure it out. It would be great if we had both.
+(10/19/2008 02:12:03 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I suspect both are TMs
+(10/19/2008 02:12:33 PM) fmccor: I'll have to call Ms. Neundorf and get an answer, because as you will see in a bit, it matters a *lot*
+(10/19/2008 02:12:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, there is something in the scans from rl03 and grant
+(10/19/2008 02:13:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, your turn now ... International Licencing For Gentoo Merchandise - fmccor
+(10/19/2008 02:13:18 PM) fmccor: OK.
+(10/19/2008 02:13:44 PM) fmccor: Apologies for keeping my notes restricted distribution --- there's a legal reason.
+(10/19/2008 02:13:59 PM) fmccor: The contents are no problem.
+(10/19/2008 02:15:40 PM) fmccor: I just opened conversations with Karen Copernhavern & Heather Balmat in Boston (Choate, etc)
+(10/19/2008 02:16:23 PM) NeddySeagoon: rl03 has saved us a lot of $$$ with that introduction
+(10/19/2008 02:16:25 PM) fmccor: I'll call her Karen because of my terrible typing.
+(10/19/2008 02:16:52 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: they represent the linux foundation as well?
+(10/19/2008 02:16:58 PM) fmccor: Indeed he did. They plan/hope to represent us pro bono,
+(10/19/2008 02:17:07 PM) fmccor: Karen used to personally.
+(10/19/2008 02:17:34 PM) fmccor: Anyway, they know very well the "industry" we are in.
+(10/19/2008 02:18:01 PM) fmccor: Some of this is repetitive for the board, but not the audience, so briefly:
+(10/19/2008 02:18:30 PM) fmccor: Trademarks are valid by country or region, depeneing on treaties.
+(10/19/2008 02:19:05 PM) fmccor: In the US, it's yours if you use it first, but you can register it to keep an official paper trail.
+(10/19/2008 02:19:31 PM) fmccor: Everywhere else, it's yours if you register it first --- use does not seem to matter.
+(10/19/2008 02:20:18 PM) fmccor: Thus, we can easily enough license anyone anywhere to sell our stuff, but to protect our trademarks anywhere, we must register them (independent of use).
+(10/19/2008 02:21:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: So we only have trademark protection in the US today ?
+(10/19/2008 02:21:47 PM) fmccor: So, we can easily license someone in Brazil (I think that was one request) to sell mugs, and by contract we can require them to protect our trademarks themselves, but for general protection in Brazil, we must register it there.
+(10/19/2008 02:21:48 PM) tsunam: in short that is the case, the e.v has the trademark in germany
+(10/19/2008 02:22:05 PM) fmccor: They have the "G"
+(10/19/2008 02:22:36 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, Yes, unless someone has registered them for us elsewhere.
+(10/19/2008 02:23:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: We need to talk with the e.V. about working together in some way then ?
+(10/19/2008 02:24:18 PM) fmccor: There are lots of possibilities, and I expect to speak with our lawyers about it next week and with e.V. once I determine who speaks for them.
+(10/19/2008 02:25:01 PM) fmccor: To that end, I'd like some negotiating authority, otherwise such talks can take forever.
+(10/19/2008 02:25:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: Where does that leave us with Licencing For emtom.cz and Licencing For Projektfarm GmbH ? Have we just stepped on the e.Vs toes ?
+(10/19/2008 02:26:14 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I suspect that it does not effect entom.cz, but Projektfarm GmbH could take issue/ bypass the foundation
+(10/19/2008 02:26:26 PM) fmccor: No, we can license them, but we can't license the "G" --- for them to use the "G", they need to work with e.V.
+(10/19/2008 02:27:24 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: use of "G" logo was their request
+(10/19/2008 02:27:25 PM) fmccor: We should be able to register "Gentoo Linux" in the EU, and it is ours in the US, registered or not (as I understand it).
+(10/19/2008 02:27:40 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, We can't grant that rught now.
+(10/19/2008 02:27:47 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, I have no problem with you talking to the e.V. as our representative but any 'agreement' you may reach will have to be ratified by the board
+(10/19/2008 02:27:59 PM) fmccor: Understood.
+(10/19/2008 02:28:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, are you ok with ^^
+(10/19/2008 02:28:42 PM) tsunam: yes thats fine with me
+(10/19/2008 02:28:56 PM) fmccor: First I have to determine who speaks for e.V., and I want to see what makes sense from Ms. Balmat's point of view (she's Choate's TM person best as I can tell).
+(10/19/2008 02:28:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats carried then ...
+(10/19/2008 02:30:02 PM) fmccor: I don't know the reach of e.V. 's ownership, either. It's Germany + treaties.
+(10/19/2008 02:30:31 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, Its probably EU wide and growing as the EU expands
+(10/19/2008 02:30:41 PM) fmccor: Probably EU + ...
+(10/19/2008 02:31:06 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, any more on this topic ?
+(10/19/2008 02:31:24 PM) fmccor: Summary, ignoring e.V. for the moment, yes.
+(10/19/2008 02:31:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: they have an irc channel]
+(10/19/2008 02:31:45 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: on freenode
+(10/19/2008 02:32:18 PM) NeddySeagoon: lets not jump in there right now ... leave fmccor to make contact
+(10/19/2008 02:32:26 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: sure
+(10/19/2008 02:32:34 PM) fmccor: Whenever a request for use of "G" comes in, we can grant it's use as a courtesy unless someone has beat us to wherever the requestor is.
+(10/19/2008 02:32:43 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there is some info re their status with Germany here
+(10/19/2008 02:33:05 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: www.gentoo-ev.org/de/2
+(10/19/2008 02:33:23 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, I'll look later
+(10/19/2008 02:33:47 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok
+(10/19/2008 02:33:49 PM) fmccor: To protect it, we should register it there, if we can --- Karen suggests writing into the agreement that the requestor at least share the cost of registration since it is to their benefit.
+(10/19/2008 02:34:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, sounds fair. If the cost puts the enquiry off, so be it
+(10/19/2008 02:35:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, done ?
+(10/19/2008 02:35:35 PM) fmccor: From a practical point of view, the reason to register it is to keep them from doing so. :) It's not like there's a big run for purple "G"
+(10/19/2008 02:35:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: hehe
+(10/19/2008 02:36:42 PM) NeddySeagoon: Certified Public Accountant - quantumsummers
+(10/19/2008 02:36:51 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: 1. We need one.
+(10/19/2008 02:37:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: yep
+(10/19/2008 02:37:22 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I have been in contact with the django foundation & indirectly the psf regarding this
+(10/19/2008 02:37:31 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: python sw foundation that is
+(10/19/2008 02:37:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: also some of my other contacts in the np workd
+(10/19/2008 02:37:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: all say its rather important
+(10/19/2008 02:38:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: to this end I have attempted to procure tentative pro bono services
+(10/19/2008 02:38:57 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I am in talks with a group that manages about 700 nps, but they are reluctant to take us on for free
+(10/19/2008 02:39:10 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: given they are unable to fully appraise the situation
+(10/19/2008 02:39:36 PM) tsunam: what are they in need of?
+(10/19/2008 02:39:39 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, can we give them the info they need ?
+(10/19/2008 02:39:45 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we need banking set up, we also need to at least try to get the previous years bank statements
+(10/19/2008 02:40:02 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: noone ever filed with the irs in the past
+(10/19/2008 02:40:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: correct
+(10/19/2008 02:40:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so, its likely that any cpa would want to go over those years too
+(10/19/2008 02:40:34 PM) tsunam: k
+(10/19/2008 02:40:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, do we have that info ?
+(10/19/2008 02:40:51 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: from talking to grant, netbank was bought out by ing
+(10/19/2008 02:40:59 PM) tsunam: all I have access to is paypal
+(10/19/2008 02:41:09 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we may be able to get that info from them
+(10/19/2008 02:41:13 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ing that is
+(10/19/2008 02:41:18 PM) tsunam: possibly
+(10/19/2008 02:41:23 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: our paypal history is important as well
+(10/19/2008 02:41:31 PM) tsunam: but really the bank account was a "holding tank"
+(10/19/2008 02:41:36 PM) tsunam: for stuff transfered out
+(10/19/2008 02:41:39 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: grant offered to assist in dealing with ing
+(10/19/2008 02:41:40 PM) tsunam: I can get the paypal history without issue
+(10/19/2008 02:41:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, is that something for you or should you delegate it ?
+(10/19/2008 02:42:01 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: other than that, at worst its around $500/year for a cpa
+(10/19/2008 02:42:16 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: I can get the paypal information and forward it onto quantumsummers
+(10/19/2008 02:42:22 PM) tsunam: but the ing account would be best from grant
+(10/19/2008 02:42:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: includes balancing books, assusring correct protocol for $ movement, & tax preparation
+(10/19/2008 02:42:42 PM) tsunam: he will have less issues getting informaiton
+(10/19/2008 02:42:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, ok, what about approching ing for our banking history ?
+(10/19/2008 02:43:08 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: thats the part I was meaning for grant
+(10/19/2008 02:43:47 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, ok, sounds like its history and not relevant to bankg going forward, so no harm in quantumsummers talking to grant
+(10/19/2008 02:44:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, quantumsummers is that ok ?
+(10/19/2008 02:44:06 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I can ask him to do it, I spoke with him about this a few weeks ago
+(10/19/2008 02:44:08 PM) fmccor: Is there any way to get a clean handoff from Grant, including introductions?
+(10/19/2008 02:44:23 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: that is the hope
+(10/19/2008 02:44:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we could do a conference call with the bank & all of us
+(10/19/2008 02:44:44 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: inc grant
+(10/19/2008 02:45:19 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, if you need me, it needs to be early morning your West Cost time
+(10/19/2008 02:45:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: central time, but yesa, I gotcha
+(10/19/2008 02:45:40 PM) fmccor: If you think that's best --- can you set it up? I don't have the capability except to call in.
+(10/19/2008 02:45:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: tsunam's west coast
+(10/19/2008 02:45:59 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: sure, I can get things going there
+(10/19/2008 02:46:05 PM) ***fmccor is east
+(10/19/2008 02:46:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, my timezone changes next weekend ...
+(10/19/2008 02:46:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, I will email about it ahead of time so we can all be on the call
+(10/19/2008 02:46:56 PM) fmccor: Brings you an hour closer for about 2 weeks.
+(10/19/2008 02:47:08 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, ok
+(10/19/2008 02:47:16 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so basically
+(10/19/2008 02:47:37 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we have options, but need more info to get pro bono, if we pay we can go ahead at any point
+(10/19/2008 02:47:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, pay how much ?
+(10/19/2008 02:48:02 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: at worst ~ $500 per year
+(10/19/2008 02:48:28 PM) ***fmccor would pay if you have an accountant in mind and you can work with.
+(10/19/2008 02:48:33 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: which is not too bad
+(10/19/2008 02:48:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: lets hang out for pro bono ... its unlikely they will switch after we start paying
+(10/19/2008 02:49:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: How urgently do we need a CPA ?
+(10/19/2008 02:49:31 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, I will report on this further as the situation develops.
+(10/19/2008 02:49:47 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: well, its a really good idea to get one as soon as possible
+(10/19/2008 02:50:07 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: though, I don't think anyone will go to jail if we wait a few more months
+(10/19/2008 02:50:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: Lets get the telecon set up ... and take it from there
+(10/19/2008 02:50:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: nice thing is that all reports (quarterly & annual) are taken care of
+(10/19/2008 02:50:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: & taxes are done. I will continue research into this matter
+(10/19/2008 02:50:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: Sounds goog
+(10/19/2008 02:51:02 PM) NeddySeagoon: good*
+(10/19/2008 02:51:05 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I think that's it for cpa
+(10/19/2008 02:51:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: icencing For emtom.cz and Licencing For Projektfarm GmbH - quantumsummers
+(10/19/2008 02:51:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: do we want to put this on hold until we have spoken with thw e.V. ?
+(10/19/2008 02:52:31 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, well given the above regarding Projektfarm, and since I sent them an email long ago & never heard back from them, putting this on hold is good until we sort out the IP status internationally
+(10/19/2008 02:52:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, ^^^
+(10/19/2008 02:53:05 PM) fmccor: Yes.
+(10/19/2008 02:53:09 PM) fmccor: Saw it.
+(10/19/2008 02:53:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: Clarify Trustee/Officer roles to enable a Trustee/Officer role split - update bylaws tracker bug -fmccor
+(10/19/2008 02:53:43 PM) fmccor: The problem really is whether or not the trademark(s) are owned by someone else and if so, what they will allow or want.
+(10/19/2008 02:53:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: indeed
+(10/19/2008 02:54:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, is you update in a suitable form to copy/paste into a new set of draft bylaws ?
+(10/19/2008 02:54:13 PM) fmccor: I don't think there's anything for the tracker --- bylaws are clear.
+(10/19/2008 02:54:44 PM) fmccor: Bylaws are clear on the roles and who does what.
+(10/19/2008 02:54:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so, we are ready for the officer split?
+(10/19/2008 02:55:05 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: how do you plan to recruit?
+(10/19/2008 02:55:06 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, it was the President/Chairman splt and the vices
+(10/19/2008 02:55:39 PM) fmccor: Yes, bylaws assume s aplit there and say if not, president acts ac chair.
+(10/19/2008 02:55:53 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, not quite, the bylaws need to be updated, adopted and cirulated to members
+(10/19/2008 02:55:58 PM) fmccor: We currently have a president but no chair.
+(10/19/2008 02:56:20 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, No, bylaws need no change for a split.
+(10/19/2008 02:56:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(10/19/2008 02:56:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: Send friendly cease and desist emails to copyright infringers spotted on cafepress - quantumsummers
+(10/19/2008 02:57:08 PM) fmccor: We just don't have a chair or vice-chair, and it will be convenient to give NeddySeagoon 2 hats.
+(10/19/2008 02:57:36 PM) NeddySeagoon: and yourself fmccor
+(10/19/2008 02:57:47 PM) fmccor: True.
+fmccor fmccor|away
+(10/19/2008 02:58:11 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so, NeddySeagoon will remain Pres/Chair & fmccor will remain VP/V-chair?
+(10/19/2008 02:58:47 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, Not quite --- problem is we don't have a chair or vice-chair, and I am proposing to appoint them.
+(10/19/2008 02:58:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ah, gotcha
+(10/19/2008 02:59:09 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: shall we talk about that a bit?
+(10/19/2008 02:59:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, unless there is good reason not to, then I would resign as President. There may be advantages to having the officers all as US citizens
+(10/19/2008 02:59:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: thus making you the chairman?
+(10/19/2008 02:59:32 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon is running these meetings as president acting as chair because we don't have a chair.
+(10/19/2008 02:59:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, yes
+(10/19/2008 02:59:41 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, makes sense.
+(10/19/2008 03:00:13 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: will there be a similar announcement regarding these vacancies?
+(10/19/2008 03:00:21 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, No advantage. I'd argue just the opposite once we get the banking in place.
+(10/19/2008 03:00:24 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: similar to the previous one(s)
+(10/19/2008 03:00:56 PM) ***fmccor thinks we are better off staying as international as possible.
+fmccor fmccor|away
+(10/19/2008 03:01:00 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I agree with fmccor
+(10/19/2008 03:01:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, possibly but that was one of the options we considered earier as the bank wanted to make life difficicult of no USA citizens
+(10/19/2008 03:01:48 PM) fmccor: Probably treasurer should be US citizen and one of Pres, VP. That should be enough.
+(10/19/2008 03:02:00 PM) NeddySeagoon: Back to ... Send friendly cease and desist emails to copyright infringers spotted on cafepress - quantumsummers
+(10/19/2008 03:03:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, I have a draft, but I have not sent it. I felt uncertain about the status & this meeting has clarified these somewhat. Would you like me to circulate the draft? Also, my plan was to simply sent it to cafepress & let them deal with things.
+(10/19/2008 03:04:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, ok, send it to trustees@
+(10/19/2008 03:04:19 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: some of the infringers are international I think, which is another consideration
+(10/19/2008 03:04:40 PM) fmccor: You will have to. Assuming cafepress is in the US, we can enforce trademark wrt them, but we can't do anything about the individuals if they are ourside the US.
+(10/19/2008 03:05:01 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: shall I also spread this to other US based companies?
+(10/19/2008 03:05:28 PM) fmccor: Are there any?
+(10/19/2008 03:05:41 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: not sure, I was looking at spreadshirt
+(10/19/2008 03:05:41 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, if you find more infringers - yes. If we don't protect our marks, they become public domain
+(10/19/2008 03:05:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: very well
+(10/19/2008 03:06:09 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers spreadshirt have an arrangement with the e.V
+(10/19/2008 03:06:27 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes I know
+(10/19/2008 03:06:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: they have offices in many countries
+(10/19/2008 03:07:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, lets keep it to USA infringers until the International position becomes clear
+(10/19/2008 03:07:21 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: cafepress will get a letter
+(10/19/2008 03:07:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, its polite to copy it to the companies too
+(10/19/2008 03:08:26 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: very well, its been rather difficult tracking all of them down, as there are many
+(10/19/2008 03:08:28 PM) NeddySeagoon: anyway, sent it to trustees@ and we can all look it over
+(10/19/2008 03:08:35 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yessir
+(10/19/2008 03:08:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: Propose wording to open Foundation Membership - update bylaws tracker bug -fmccor
+(10/19/2008 03:09:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: IS this copy and paste ready ?
+(10/19/2008 03:09:31 PM) fmccor: I put forth a 1 sentence proposal, there are a couple comments on it.
+(10/19/2008 03:09:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: We will look at the bug under the next agenda item
+(10/19/2008 03:10:08 PM) fmccor: I'm happy with it as it is for now, and we can amend it as we discuss it.
+(10/19/2008 03:10:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: 3. Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
+(10/19/2008 03:10:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: !bug 177966
+(10/19/2008 03:10:40 PM) Willikins: NeddySeagoon: https://bugs.gentoo.org/177966 "Clarify Foundation page on external entities"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; NEW; wolf31o2@g.o:trustees@g.o
+(10/19/2008 03:10:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: I was supposed to close that, and I havent. Sorry
+(10/19/2008 03:11:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: !bug 217511
+(10/19/2008 03:11:22 PM) Willikins: NeddySeagoon: https://bugs.gentoo.org/217511 "The Gentoo Store is Out of Date"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; NEW; neddyseagoon@g.o:trustees@g.o
+(10/19/2008 03:11:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: musikc, around ?
+(10/19/2008 03:11:47 PM) fmccor: I think she's in China --- tsunam would know
+(10/19/2008 03:12:11 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there were several updates make by musikc
+(10/19/2008 03:12:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: There has been some stuff added
+(10/19/2008 03:12:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: !bug 236863
+(10/19/2008 03:12:55 PM) Willikins: NeddySeagoon: https://bugs.gentoo.org/236863 "Tracker Bug for the bylaws of the Gentoo Foundation Inc."; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; neddyseagoon@g.o:trustees@g.o
+(10/19/2008 03:13:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: Lets discuss the bylaw amendment(s) now
+(10/19/2008 03:15:03 PM) fmccor: OK, I think 6.3 in comment 6 is a no-brainer (even though I did write it).
+(10/19/2008 03:15:24 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes
+(10/19/2008 03:16:17 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I think it would be nice to do what the linux foundation just did, allow anyone to become a member of the foundation by contributing
+(10/19/2008 03:16:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, agreed
+(10/19/2008 03:16:50 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: which reminds me, it may be possible to get nice tax receipts for devs that volunteer
+(10/19/2008 03:17:18 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, You mean with $$$ , or ... ?
+(10/19/2008 03:17:31 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: would need a standard to determine the "value", I mean a tax write-off
+(10/19/2008 03:17:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, thats the 'on merit' I proposed. devs qualify immediately on becoming a dev, if thay want to, non devs need to show what they have done
+(10/19/2008 03:18:28 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes, on merit makes good sense
+(10/19/2008 03:18:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: ranes' leaving is already in the bylaws
+(10/19/2008 03:19:16 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: though there is precedent with other OSS foundations for allowing membership by donation
+(10/19/2008 03:19:54 PM) ***fmccor does not think he likes that idea.
+(10/19/2008 03:19:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: not sure how you or the community would feel about this
+(10/19/2008 03:20:00 PM) NeddySeagoon: I want to scrap the 1 year rule as the foundation imdemnifies its memebrs ... there is no reason for devs not to have that benefit
+(10/19/2008 03:20:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, why ?
+(10/19/2008 03:20:39 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: makes sense to protect the devs at join date
+(10/19/2008 03:21:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, as long as its not compulsorary
+fmccor fmccor|away
+(10/19/2008 03:21:14 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: NeddySeagoon: yes
+fmccor fmccor|away
+(10/19/2008 03:21:32 PM) fmccor: Membership by donation? I'm not sure, it just feels a little wrong. I don't have strong feelings on it one way or the other.
+(10/19/2008 03:21:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, nope - not by donation ... did I say that ?
+(10/19/2008 03:22:16 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: fmccor, the main reason I bring that up is that several of the larger OSS foundations use that to get corporate & private donors
+(10/19/2008 03:22:46 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: think public radio
+(10/19/2008 03:23:09 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, perhaps we were out of sync. I agree with all the rest of the discussion.
+(10/19/2008 03:23:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, I don't see membership by donation happing any time soon. Maybe when we can offer 501(c) benefits
+(10/19/2008 03:23:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes, that is necessary
+(10/19/2008 03:23:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: the cpa will assist with 501c3
+(10/19/2008 03:24:01 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: takes 6 to 9 months
+(10/19/2008 03:24:14 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: highly recommended
+(10/19/2008 03:24:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, I think we a a year or two away from that ... if the donor corps take the risk of us screwing up in the 5 year trail
+(10/19/2008 03:24:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we will be fine, I am fairly certain there have been no dubious dealings
+(10/19/2008 03:25:23 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: esp given that the cash flow has been so low
+(10/19/2008 03:25:35 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: & noone has taken salary
+(10/19/2008 03:25:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: for the next bylaw update ... its not a useful option and we are taliking of an update before Christmas
+(10/19/2008 03:26:09 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so, are we opening up membership to devs immediately upon joining?
+(10/19/2008 03:26:19 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, its the income balance that could be a problem
+(10/19/2008 03:27:08 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats the suggestion ... and to non devs on merit. Merit will be judged on a case by case basis by the board
+(10/19/2008 03:27:34 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: imo, opening foundation membership to users could engender greater community happiness, etc. so a non-dev would apply for membership?
+(10/19/2008 03:27:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: & be judged by the board
+(10/19/2008 03:28:03 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: or would a dev suggest a non-dev for membership?
+(10/19/2008 03:28:05 PM) fmccor: Yes, that's fine with me.
+(10/19/2008 03:28:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, I hope it will help close the dev / non dev devide
+(10/19/2008 03:28:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we will need a standard of merit
+(10/19/2008 03:28:37 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I agere NeddySeagoon, that will be a very good thing for everyone
+(10/19/2008 03:28:41 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: *agree
+(10/19/2008 03:28:49 PM) fmccor: Also.
+(10/19/2008 03:29:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, The board will judge each case on it merits. It needs to be a verifiable contribution
+(10/19/2008 03:29:43 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: what types of contributions will be considered?
+(10/19/2008 03:30:06 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, anythiing to the good og Gentoo and open source
+(10/19/2008 03:30:08 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: gentoo-wiki, blogging, forums participation ... ?
+(10/19/2008 03:30:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: of*
+(10/19/2008 03:30:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok
+(10/19/2008 03:30:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so users are welcome to apply
+(10/19/2008 03:30:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: e.g. if Wayne Chew applied ...
+(10/19/2008 03:30:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats fmccors' example
+(10/19/2008 03:30:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: they must provide some form of "proof of contribution"
+(10/19/2008 03:31:13 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: makes sense.
+(10/19/2008 03:31:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: They need to provide something we can check out, yes
+(10/19/2008 03:31:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: just trying to figure out what to say in the summary, :D
+(10/19/2008 03:31:47 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: very well.
+(10/19/2008 03:32:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, you have been quiet ... are you agreed with the ideas above ?
+(10/19/2008 03:32:27 PM) fmccor: Probably part of it will be in the form "Ask xxx and yyy what I'm up to."
+(10/19/2008 03:32:48 PM) NeddySeagoon: yep
+(10/19/2008 03:32:48 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: hehe yes I have been
+(10/19/2008 03:32:56 PM) tsunam: I've never been for donations for membership
+(10/19/2008 03:33:03 PM) tsunam: 501c3 always pushed for
+(10/19/2008 03:33:47 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, in years to come, it would be GNi donating to the foundation instead of infra, to get 503(c) tax relief
+(10/19/2008 03:33:59 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: yep
+(10/19/2008 03:34:12 PM) tsunam: makes it much more useful for businesses to donate as they can write it off
+(10/19/2008 03:34:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: and GNi would be a member ... or not ?
+(10/19/2008 03:34:19 PM) tsunam: nope
+(10/19/2008 03:35:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, I have no strong feelings one way or another. GNi was just an example ... it applies to all our USA based sponsors
+(10/19/2008 03:35:38 PM) tsunam: A sponsor is fine but not as a member of the foundation
+(10/19/2008 03:36:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: I'll offer to update the bylaws over the next week but I don't have a USA spell checker
+(10/19/2008 03:36:47 PM) fmccor: We can decipher your strange spelling. :)
+(10/19/2008 03:36:53 PM) NeddySeagoon: In line with the bug and discussions here
+(10/19/2008 03:36:57 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: here, please let me know if this works for you guys
+(10/19/2008 03:37:04 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: Some very important changes regarding foundation membership are being finalized. First, as all Gentoo developers and staff are encouraged to join the foundation, membership will now be available at join data, whereas previously a one year wait perios was required. Secondly, all contributing Gentoo users are encouraged to apply for foundation mambership. Approval will be granted by the board of trustees on a per application basis, contigent on the applicant providing verifiable proof of meaningful contribution to Gentoo.
+(10/19/2008 03:37:22 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: that should be join date not data
+(10/19/2008 03:37:26 PM) fmccor: "join data"?
+(10/19/2008 03:37:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: lol
+(10/19/2008 03:37:31 PM) fmccor: OK.
+(10/19/2008 03:37:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: yep
+(10/19/2008 03:37:47 PM) rane: you shouldn't write that long sentences on irc
+(10/19/2008 03:37:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: thanks for the summary
+(10/19/2008 03:37:57 PM) rane: it cuts down after 150 chars or sth like that
+(10/19/2008 03:38:25 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I wrote it for the doc rane, but I will chop it up in the future
+(10/19/2008 03:38:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: We will vote on the new bylaws at the November meetting
+(10/19/2008 03:38:40 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, Fine with me.
+(10/19/2008 03:38:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: !bug 56711
+(10/19/2008 03:38:49 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, thanks
+(10/19/2008 03:38:49 PM) Willikins: NeddySeagoon: https://bugs.gentoo.org/56711 "Retire: Renat Lumpau (rl03)"; Recruitment, New Developers; NEW; stuart@g.o:retirement@g.o
+(10/19/2008 03:39:22 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: seems like everyone is for retiring renat, but giving him an email forward
+(10/19/2008 03:39:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: As Renat is out of the country can we defer another month ?
+(10/19/2008 03:39:32 PM) fmccor: I don't have strong feelings === I'd just like to wait for him to get back into the country so he can comment himself first.
+(10/19/2008 03:39:40 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok
+(10/19/2008 03:39:44 PM) fmccor: You beat me to it.
+(10/19/2008 03:40:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, I don't want to bend the rules just because it suits us. The project has its rules (hen the bug) and the Foundation as its rules
+(10/19/2008 03:40:40 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, I'd say defer --- there's nothing hanging on his status.
+(10/19/2008 03:40:51 PM) tsunam: you know my stance so
+(10/19/2008 03:41:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: rane, are you ok with another month ?
+(10/19/2008 03:41:18 PM) rane: what do you mean?
+(10/19/2008 03:41:38 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, right now he's away, whether marked as such or not, so I think that suspends action anyway.
+(10/19/2008 03:41:57 PM) rane: i'm fine with waiting
+(10/19/2008 03:42:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: rane, waiting until rl03_ is back in the US
+(10/19/2008 03:42:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: rane, thanks
+(10/19/2008 03:42:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: Item 4 Treasurers Report for FY ending 30 June 2008
+(10/19/2008 03:42:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, ^^
+(10/19/2008 03:43:56 PM) tsunam: I've managed to finally get the reports for quarterly from paypal. I need to do the last 3 years of them to get the fy for this year correct
+(10/19/2008 03:44:12 PM) tsunam: I had to call paypal and one of their people had to get them for me ~_~
+(10/19/2008 03:44:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, that doesn't sound good. When will you be able to update the web pages ?
+(10/19/2008 03:45:09 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: I'll try for "soon" see how bad the numbers are
+(10/19/2008 03:45:24 PM) tsunam: they need to get up no matter what but I hope they are close to what they should be
+(10/19/2008 03:45:28 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, have you scoped the work involved ?
+(10/19/2008 03:45:44 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: yeah a lot of number crunching
+(10/19/2008 03:46:00 PM) tsunam: they are in quarters though for the reports so its easier
+(10/19/2008 03:46:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: can you put them up a quarter at a time ?
+(10/19/2008 03:46:19 PM) tsunam: should be able to
+(10/19/2008 03:46:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, please do that then we can watch progress :)
+(10/19/2008 03:46:49 PM) tsunam: k
+(10/19/2008 03:47:09 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, when do we have to file for our FY end ?
+(10/19/2008 03:47:48 PM) tsunam: we don't have to file the same way but we have to report taxes in march/april
+(10/19/2008 03:48:11 PM) tsunam: same as the rest of us as far as I'm aware in the states
+(10/19/2008 03:48:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, so everything has to be done for then. Will that deadline be ok ?
+(10/19/2008 03:48:49 PM) tsunam: more then sufficent unless I'm a complete slacker
+(10/19/2008 03:49:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: hehe ok. At least you have the data. If you need help, shout in good time
+(10/19/2008 03:49:37 PM) tsunam: will do
+(10/19/2008 03:50:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: Item 5 Any other business.
+(10/19/2008 03:50:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, anything else at all ?
+(10/19/2008 03:50:22 PM) fmccor: No.
+(10/19/2008 03:50:25 PM) tsunam: nope
+(10/19/2008 03:50:35 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: just a sec
+(10/19/2008 03:50:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, anything ?
+(10/19/2008 03:50:43 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes
+(10/19/2008 03:51:10 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, sorry, my wife just called, she is flying back from new orleans
+(10/19/2008 03:51:19 PM) NeddySeagoon: np
+(10/19/2008 03:52:14 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: actually, this may be better off the record for any detailed discussion, but I have established a dev plan & devs to create the tools for the foundation management
+(10/19/2008 03:52:27 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: django foundation initially
+(10/19/2008 03:52:49 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there are other OSS foundations interested in using such a suite as well
+(10/19/2008 03:52:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, sounds interesting ... this is to manage our records
+(10/19/2008 03:53:28 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we have the potential to create a revenue stream by hosting service this for other OSS foundations, if that is interesting or possible.
+(10/19/2008 03:53:40 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes to manage records, books, donors, contacts
+(10/19/2008 03:53:59 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: IP management, there is a rather large initial feature set
+(10/19/2008 03:54:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: once the groundwork is done, we will open it to further dev via a module/plugin api
+(10/19/2008 03:55:00 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: spent most of friday with jacob km, django foundation head, working out the details
+(10/19/2008 03:55:11 PM) NeddySeagoon: do we need to invent something new ?
+(10/19/2008 03:55:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I think we covered all his needs & all of gentoo's needs
+(10/19/2008 03:55:26 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes, we are inventing something new
+(10/19/2008 03:55:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, so I see, but do we *need* to ?
+(10/19/2008 03:56:28 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there are no tools specifically for non-profit management that encompass all these things, esp with an eye towards continuity of governance
+(10/19/2008 03:56:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(10/19/2008 03:57:39 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: it will be a good thing, the trustees will have input on what features are required
+(10/19/2008 03:57:45 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: & desired
+(10/19/2008 03:57:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, its probably best to share they detail via email
+(10/19/2008 03:57:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: jacob & I will build it
+(10/19/2008 03:58:02 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes
+(10/19/2008 03:58:30 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: jacob requested a degree of quietness about this until we have a nice working model up
+(10/19/2008 03:58:57 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: but wait, there's more ...
+(10/19/2008 03:58:58 PM) NeddySeagoon: best put it on trustees@ then, not -nfp
+(10/19/2008 03:59:49 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there are some upcoming grant opportunities available, I will post to you via trustees@ that look really good.
+(10/19/2008 03:59:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: basically really good pr
+(10/19/2008 04:00:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: Where will this tool be hosted ? -infra may not like it
+(10/19/2008 04:00:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I can host it, no problem, if that's the case
+(10/19/2008 04:01:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there are also some interesting opportunities to partner with other OSS foundations with this tool as well
+(10/19/2008 04:02:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: best talk to -infra early, not present them a done deal and keep them informed of developments
+(10/19/2008 04:02:25 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I have spoken with robbat informally
+(10/19/2008 04:02:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: but yes I agree
+(10/19/2008 04:03:06 PM) NeddySeagoon: ask robbat2 if you should copy -infra on the mail
+(10/19/2008 04:03:12 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: nice thing is that the code base will be maintained be representative from, hopefully, many OSS non-profits
+(10/19/2008 04:03:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: s/be/by
+(10/19/2008 04:03:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: that sounds good, with a team of two, I was worried about ongoing maintainance
+(10/19/2008 04:04:18 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: that's just so we can make sure we have a good handle on the intial development
+(10/19/2008 04:04:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(10/19/2008 04:04:53 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: actually there will be a dev team of about 6 after we work the data models out
+(10/19/2008 04:05:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(10/19/2008 04:05:18 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: prior to fully opening up the code
+(10/19/2008 04:05:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: put the details in an email
+(10/19/2008 04:05:33 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: anyway, that's about it
+(10/19/2008 04:05:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
+(10/19/2008 04:05:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: 6. Open floor ...
+(10/19/2008 04:06:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: Anything from anybody
+(10/19/2008 04:06:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: I have something ... DoNM
+(10/19/2008 04:07:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: Sunday 16th November 1900 UTC .... is that OK with everyone
+(10/19/2008 04:07:36 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, tsunam ?
+(10/19/2008 04:07:41 PM) fmccor: Should be.
+(10/19/2008 04:07:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, ?
+(10/19/2008 04:07:55 PM) fmccor: That's probably when US changes time, but am not sure.
+(10/19/2008 04:07:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: fine with me
+(10/19/2008 04:08:11 PM) tsunam: nothing
+(10/19/2008 04:08:15 PM) tsunam: and its fine
+(10/19/2008 04:08:16 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I think its nov. 2nd time changes
+(10/19/2008 04:08:30 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: err 4th
+(10/19/2008 04:09:25 PM) fmccor: 4th is a Tuesday (election day)
+(10/19/2008 04:09:43 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: lord, wrong month, its the 2nd
+(10/19/2008 04:09:45 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: lol
+(10/19/2008 04:10:07 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: silly of me, sorry
+(10/19/2008 04:10:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: don't forget to vote
+(10/19/2008 04:11:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: meeting over
+(10/19/2008 04:11:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: Thanks everyone \ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/2008/september08.txt b/2008/september08.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..9e75f4c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2008/september08.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,614 @@
+20:00 * NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order
+20:00 * musikc is updating the bug with her comments
+20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Roll call dmwaters tsunam
+20:02 <@dmwaters> NeddySeagoon: i'm here
+20:03 <@quantumsummers|c> anyone spy tsunam?
+20:03 <@NeddySeagoon> dmwaters, thanks - we are quorate, with 3 out of4
+20:03 <@NeddySeagoon> lets start anyway
+20:04 < musikc> bug #236863 updated if interested
+20:04 < Willikins> musikc: https://bugs.gentoo.org/236863 "Tracker Bug for the bylaws of the Gentoo Foundation Inc."; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; neddyseagoon@g.o:trustees@g.o
+20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> 1 Appointments
+20:05 <@fmccor> musikc, I'm good with that.
+20:05 <@NeddySeagoon> We are pleased to announce the appointments of dmwaters as a trustee in place of tgall and quantumsummers as sec, and our very first non trustee officer
+20:06 * quantumsummers|c wishes to thank the board of trustees for the opportunity.
+20:06 <+rane> congrats guys
+20:06 <@NeddySeagoon> 2. Introductions take a bow please dmwaters and quantumsummers. Say a few words to introduce yourselves
+20:07 * quantumsummers|c bows
+20:07 <@NeddySeagoon> moving on ... 3 Actions From the Last Meeting
+20:07 <@dmwaters> My name is deedra waters, I've been a gentoo developer for a quite a while, and served on the board for almost 2 terms in the past
+20:08 <@NeddySeagoon> thank you
+20:08 <@NeddySeagoon> Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam
+20:09 <@NeddySeagoon> as he's not here, thats a bye ... but we do know that tsunam is expecting forms from the bank 'soon'.
+20:09 <@quantumsummers|c> can I jump in here re:CPA?
+20:09 <@NeddySeagoon> sure
+20:09 <@quantumsummers|c> ok
+20:10 <@quantumsummers|c> well, I have been in informal negotiations with a firm that specializes in non-profits
+20:10 <@quantumsummers|c> I have worked with these people for ~3 years now
+20:11 <@quantumsummers|c> basically, to take this further I need a decent guestimate regarding the foundations fiscal situation
+20:11 <@quantumsummers|c> better yet, an anual report
+20:11 <@quantumsummers|c> *annual
+20:11 <@quantumsummers|c> however, they are amenable to our cause
+20:11 <@quantumsummers|c> & interested in working with us
+20:12 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, please discuss that directly with tsunam - there are scans of our annual reports around but I'm not sure if its what you need
+20:12 <@quantumsummers|c> my only reservation is their lack of experience dealing with OSS non-profits, but then I think the legal filings are the same regardless
+20:12 <@quantumsummers|c> NeddySeagoon: I will bring it up to him
+20:13 <@quantumsummers|c> seems like they need to know the volume of transactions in order to judge the time commitment
+20:13 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, an email to trustees@ then poke hime to read it ..
+20:13 -!- fragalot [n=services@gentoo/user/FamousToaster] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
+20:13 <@quantumsummers|c> could cost anywhere from free to ~$120/month
+20:13 <@quantumsummers|c> will do re:poke, NeddySeagoon
+20:13 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, I think its pretty low ... but tsunam has the numbers
+20:13 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, As an estimate, figure pretty low folume
+20:14 <@quantumsummers|c> yes, that was my initial thought
+20:14 <@quantumsummers|c> no payroll, so that will make things easier
+20:14 <@NeddySeagoon> yep
+20:15 <@quantumsummers|c> thats it for CPA at this time
+20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> dmwaters, the next item concerns you as everyone else is ok with it Trustees and Foundation Article For the GMN - (On hold while we are under strength)
+20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> dmwaters, I'll give you a link to a sample later - its on hold until we replace wltjr
+20:16 <@dmwaters> NeddySeagoon: ok
+20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> Next action - International Licencing For Gentoo Merchandise - fmccor
+20:17 <@fmccor> As you have seen, I'm asking Renat for introductions to lawyers he knows who do this sort of thing.
+20:17 <@fmccor> He has interned with a couple, ans should be getting back to me this week.
+20:18 <@fmccor> He claimed he needed time to get back into the law student mode, and such.
+20:18 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I've jusr dropped him from the trustees@ alias, should we add him back ?
+20:18 <@fmccor> Probably doesn't matter as long as I can reach him at @gentoo.org
+20:19 <@fmccor> I suspect he's more likely to read personal email anyway.
+20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> sounds like hes well into lawyer mode ... waiting for it to get to the top of the inbox :)
+20:19 <@fmccor> :)
+20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll leave him off trustees@
+20:19 <@fmccor> If he's in true lawyer mode, that'll never happen. :)
+20:19 <@quantumsummers|c> may I ask what sort of law expertise we are looking for?
+20:20 <@NeddySeagoon> Fix name and address on IPR/trademark documents, - needs a bank account to pay the fees
+20:20 <@fmccor> International licensing agreements --- we want to license people in other countries to sell our stuff.
+20:20 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, right.
+20:21 <@NeddySeagoon> and make money from it ourselves ...
+20:21 <@quantumsummers|c> indeed
+20:21 <@fmccor> I'm ready to move based on the last meeting as soon as we have access to our funds.
+20:21 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thanks.
+20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> Clarify Trustee/Officer roles to enable a Trustee/Officer role split ... fmccor you brought this up at the end of the last meeting
+20:22 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Yes. Here goes ...
+20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> It was getting late here, so was held over ...
+20:23 <@fmccor> Under the bylaws, these meetings are chaired by the Board chairman, or by the President if none.
+20:23 <@fmccor> I think we should designate NeddySeagoon as the Chairman of the board (and me as vice chairman) so that we can split off the
+20:24 <@fmccor> President and Vice president from the trustees without losing control of our own meetings.
+20:24 <@fmccor> There is another advantage:
+20:24 <@NeddySeagoon> I see. separate names for each office/trustee position, so they can be split but the trustees always retain control
+20:24 <@fmccor> During all this banking mess, one of the problems was that NeddySeagoon is not a US resident. But that's because he's the President of the Foundation.
+20:25 <@fmccor> If someone else had been president and NeddySeagoon the chairman of the board, that would never have come up.
+20:25 <@dmwaters> hmmm
+20:26 <@fmccor> Right now, neither the president nor the vice president actually does anything; the board is doing it all (except for secretary now).
+20:26 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, exactly.
+20:27 <@fmccor> Right now, you would keep both positions, but if something like the bank problems came up again, we could avoid it without actually changing anything.
+20:27 <@quantumsummers|c> does the board have any contact with the board of, for example, the linux foundation or fsf, to see how they handle these matters?
+20:27 <@fmccor> President acts at the direction of the board anyway.
+20:28 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, that sounds like something to sort out on trustees@ care to write it up in some detail so we can discuss/vote on a motion next meeting ?
+20:28 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Yes. If you don't see something next week, beat up on me for it.
+20:28 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, wltjr opened discussions with one of the BSD foundations ... we need to keep that alive
+20:29 <@fmccor> Anyone else feel free to express an opinion, too.
+20:29 <@quantumsummers|c> indeed, it may be beneficial to open dialog with a few of the prominent non-profits in the OSS world
+20:29 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor put it on -nfp then. No need to keep it to ourselves
+20:29 <@fmccor> Will do.
+20:30 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, I'll forward you the email exchange I have ... like I say, its early days
+20:30 <@quantumsummers|c> ok
+20:30 <@quantumsummers|c> thanks
+20:30 <@quantumsummers|c> mind if I make some attempts?
+20:31 <@fmccor> Please do.
+20:31 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, I was hoping you would offer ... we need someone to follow up. Please do
+20:31 <@NeddySeagoon> 4 Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
+20:32 <@NeddySeagoon> 177966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities ... I never ubderstood this one
+20:32 <@NeddySeagoon> !bug 177966
+20:32 < Willikins> NeddySeagoon: https://bugs.gentoo.org/177966 "Clarify Foundation page on external entities"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; NEW; wolf31o2@g.o:trustees@g.o
+20:32 <@fmccor> I don't know what this one is about
+20:33 <@quantumsummers|c> my take is that its about how gentoo will comply with law, but more to the point about how gentoo will interact with donors
+20:33 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I think we can add a comment to point to the bylaws and close it. I'll look at it during the week
+20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> The bylaws are our limitations
+20:34 <@fmccor> OK
+20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> 217511 The Gentoo Store is Out of Date - musikc
+20:34 < musikc> hiya
+20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> !bug 217511
+20:34 < musikc> yes it is
+20:34 < Willikins> NeddySeagoon: https://bugs.gentoo.org/217511 "The Gentoo Store is Out of Date"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; NEW; neddyseagoon@g.o:trustees@g.o
+20:34 < musikc> whats up with that? LOL
+20:35 <@quantumsummers|c> (gentoo throwing star belt buckle)
+20:35 <@quantumsummers|c> :D
+20:35 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, you were going to fix it, or see if PR could help
+20:35 < musikc> sorry quantumsummers|c, i didnt find any online stores for that :-P
+20:35 <@quantumsummers|c> ah, well, lemme see what I can find, worse case I know a blacksmith or two
+20:36 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, For decapitating (Larry the) cows?
+20:36 < musikc> i spoke to dberkholz only this week (newborn = ! extra time) and he had no personal interest in doing it but said he'd be fine with PR doing it
+20:37 <@quantumsummers|c> I would be willing to assist here as well
+20:37 < musikc> what i'd like to do is this... ive sent an email to pr@ to solicite some interest, i'd like to get the current store up to shape, and find someone to hand over maintaining it in PR, possibly recruit some help for PR in the process if not enough interest
+20:37 <@NeddySeagoon> As its an ongoing thing, keeping it up to date and so on, I think the foundation should form a storekeepers project
+20:37 < musikc> a lot of what i hear about the store just isnt true
+20:37 <@quantumsummers|c> what do you hear
+20:37 < musikc> people say cafepress doesnt ship internationally... well they do
+20:38 < musikc> people say cafepress doesnt offer options... well they do, its just they arent listed on *our* store
+20:38 <@NeddySeagoon> yep - there has been some correspondence on -nfp about that
+20:38 <@quantumsummers|c> sounds like a sw update is needed
+20:38 < musikc> now i will admit cafepress is expensive, but i looked at another popular option and it's just as expensive as well
+20:38 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, we pulled 2006.0 ...
+20:38 <@quantumsummers|c> no, I meant the sw that runs the store
+20:38 < musikc> so i think that any solution that 'doesnt make it til you order it' is going to be more expensive than if we ran our own print shop and store
+20:39 <@quantumsummers|c> err, that the store runs on
+20:39 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, are you saying cafepress is out of date or just our store on cafepress?
+20:39 < musikc> cafepress offers some neat things id like to see in our store tbh
+20:39 <@quantumsummers|c> bingo
+20:39 < musikc> LOL, quantumsummers|c, it was an A or B question :-P
+20:40 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, I don't think we want to run our own store ... thats a big overhead. Just licence cafepress or whoever to do it
+20:40 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, no no no, nor do i.
+20:40 <@quantumsummers|c> if some popular options are not visible on our store we are out of date, that is what I meant
+20:40 < musikc> just saying thats why i think ppl say its expensive, it could be cheaper but wouldnt be worth it for us.
+20:40 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, i totally agree
+20:40 -!- pva is now known as pva|afk
+20:40 < musikc> like long sleeve tshirts... come on, no reason those arent there
+20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, speadshirt have them
+20:41 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, so does cafepress :-P
+20:41 < musikc> its just WE didnt add it to our lil subsection of cafepress, our store if you will
+20:41 < musikc> and it'd be soooooooo easy to add it!
+20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc and CDs and DVDs ... it needs a maintainer
+20:42 < musikc> not really, here's why i say that...
+20:42 < musikc> no one actually bought them. the last time they were updated was when they were finally dropped b/c there were not enough orders to even compensate for the cost of shipping the media to cafepress
+20:42 < musikc> so it seems like a waste to me
+20:43 < musikc> however, we could talk to agaffney re: release engineering but i really think Gentoo is in for a reality check there (my personal opinion)
+20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, we never tried a DVD but I heard that about the CDs
+20:43 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, cafepress doesnt offer DVD
+20:44 <@quantumsummers|c> imo, skip the install media, anyone that wants to run gentoo will DL the iso they need
+20:44 <@fmccor> I think so, too.
+20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, thats true in the USA and Europe, in which case there is no point in doing media there
+20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> To sum up then ...
+20:45 <@quantumsummers|c> however, the things that can generate revenue for the project are cool t-shirts & schwag.
+20:45 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, agree totally on that
+20:45 <@fmccor> Also.
+20:45 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, will talk to PR about taking on the store and maintaining it, recruiting if required
+20:45 <@quantumsummers|c> so, not to cut off NeddySeagoon, but
+20:46 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, do you have any objections to me updating it ASAP?
+20:46 <@quantumsummers|c> some manner of design contest, coupled with a big pr push could really help drive up revenue in the store
+20:46 * musikc steps away from quantumsummers|c who is reading her mind
+20:46 <@NeddySeagoon> If there is no interest, the foundation will look at staffing it, possibly with a 'committee'
+20:47 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, Nope ... pleasedo
+20:47 <@quantumsummers|c> hmm, musikc, how difficult is it to get new designs put up/
+20:47 <@quantumsummers|c> ?
+20:47 < musikc> cake walk
+20:47 <@quantumsummers|c> lovely
+20:47 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, after its updated ... it needs regular revies and maintainance ... so I would like to see a long term solution
+20:48 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, i agree. something quarterly would be good.
+20:48 <@quantumsummers|c> ok, well I have a contact with a really nice design group here that has interest in pro bono designs
+20:48 <@NeddySeagoon> reviwes*
+20:48 < musikc> like a review for trustees to see how the store is doing in a meeting once a quarter?
+20:48 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, yep sounds good
+20:49 < musikc> if we wrap up the 'update the store bit' i have more re: the store
+20:49 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, we have to post quarterly accounts ... so round about that time
+20:49 < musikc> may i proceed?
+20:49 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, please do
+20:50 < musikc> who in trustees is checking for use of our IP on sites, such as cafepress?
+20:50 < musikc> i found 3 sites there that are using our logos and that is a violation, a quick email to cafepress should take those items down.
+20:50 < musikc> http://www.cafepress.com/linux_gentoo
+20:50 < musikc> http://www.cafepress.com/ovensia
+20:50 < musikc> http://www.cafepress.com/1337_stuff
+20:50 < musikc> now i know they can say 'gentoo' but they cannot use our logo
+20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> I guess the answer is nobody ... if I find one, I ask them to please stop or come to some arrangement
+20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> yep
+20:52 < musikc> i know wolf31o2 used to regularly search popular sites for such things. is it possible someone on the foundation could take on that role?
+20:52 <@quantumsummers|c> that first link has a ton of cool stuff
+20:52 < musikc> hehe
+20:52 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, aye... and isnt giving us any % of their profits for using our logo
+20:52 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, sounds like a secertarial task
+20:52 * musikc giggles
+20:52 <@quantumsummers|c> now if the people responsible for those stores are making money, they could be held liable very easily
+20:53 <@fmccor> Actually, I think we don't want to stop them, we want them to get permission, perhaps give us a cut, and note the Gentoo is a (R) trademark.
+20:53 <@NeddySeagoon> we need to track who we have arrangements with too
+20:53 <@quantumsummers|c> indeed
+20:53 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, i can tell you they are b/c i know what the actual cost of those items are, so they are marking them up
+20:54 <@quantumsummers|c> well then, wonder if I can find a phone number
+20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, thats the only reason these sites exist
+20:54 < musikc> fmccor, that's fine if you wish to let them, but we should get something out of it. % of profits, maybe alos a link to our store, and an agreement that they will not sell the same items as us
+20:54 <@quantumsummers|c> that group is ripping off everyone, lol
+20:54 < musikc> http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/cup.aspx
+20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, as musikc says, emails all round, copy to trustees@
+20:55 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, i think you could email cup@cafepress.com and ask for help contacting those stores
+20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, we don't all want to send emails, are you going to do it ?
+20:55 <@quantumsummers|c> sure, pleasure
+20:56 <@quantumsummers|c> imo, gentoo is the only group that should be selling gentoo stuff
+20:56 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, thanks. report back to the next meeting.
+20:56 <@quantumsummers|c> we could create an avenue with designers to facilitate their work & split some profit, thus generating more revenue for the project.
+20:57 <@quantumsummers|c> I will report back as soon as I have info.
+20:57 <@NeddySeagoon> heh ... an English local council is calling some of its services gentoo ... but no relation to linux
+20:57 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, By the way, this is one issue our pro bono IP lawyer mentioned --- we need for those vendors to note that it's Gentoo(R) --- not on the T-shirts, perhaps, but someplace on the site.
+20:57 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, in the past we stopped everyone who used any of our IP (the pretty G logo or the Gentoo Linux one)
+20:57 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, any more on the shop ?
+20:57 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, nah, let me role with what we've got, harrass the PR ppl, and try to drum up some interest in the store in general
+20:58 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, I agree with that in the USA
+20:58 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks musikc
+20:58 < musikc> will send an email to either -core or -dev and see if ppl want to chat about it on #-pr
+20:58 <@quantumsummers|c> NeddySeagoon: you disagree outside the US?
+20:58 <@quantumsummers|c> err, nm, we still need to sort out the int'l stuff
+20:59 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, International IP law is a rather young field, it seems.
+20:59 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, do you guys have the login credentials or do you want me to ask the old store maintainer who is playing with his PS3 presently LOL
+20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, yes - we want to licence stuff outside the USA. We already have a few agreements and spreadshirt has a deal with gentoo.e.V who were set up before the foundation.
+21:00 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, hehe. We got the paypal details, I'm not sure about the store
+21:01 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, i'll go throw something at wolf then :)
+21:01 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc thanks
+21:01 <@NeddySeagoon> 236863 Bylaws Tracker Bug
+21:01 <@NeddySeagoon> !bug 236863
+21:01 < Willikins> NeddySeagoon: https://bugs.gentoo.org/236863 "Tracker Bug for the bylaws of the Gentoo Foundation Inc."; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; neddyseagoon@g.o:trustees@g.o
+21:03 <@fmccor> The comments from musikc and me are more than cosmetic.
+21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> do we need to discuss this or just think about a bylaws update in early Jan 09 ?
+21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, agreed
+21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> when do you see they need to come into force ?
+21:04 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, i'd like to discuss it. not sure why wait to updat bylaws?
+21:04 <@fmccor> The membership changes? Soonish
+21:04 < musikc> and can share the devrel draft on the staff section
+21:05 < musikc> http://dev.gentoo.org/~rane/staffers.xml
+21:05 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, please kick off the discussion
+21:05 < musikc> i think there are two parts, one is WIP in my eyes, visible by quantumsummers being a dev now
+21:05 <@NeddySeagoon> yes
+21:05 < musikc> we agree that officers and trustees should be eligible to be staffer devs
+21:06 < musikc> and want to update some docs to reflect how being a staffer works and what we consider to be staffers
+21:06 < musikc> this will avoid ppl from being retired due to inactivity if they work on the foundation as well as allow new foundation roles to have access to appropriate areas, like the foundation page
+21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> thats very useful
+21:07 < musikc> quantumsummers|c is our first but he can comment as to the process. i suspect it went pretty smoothly
+21:07 -!- Arfrever [n=Arfrever@gentoo/user/arfrever] has quit [Client Quit]
+21:07 <@fmccor> What about current developers like rl03 who are helping the Foundation but have no official title in it?
+21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> I would like to open foundation membership based on merit/interest
+21:07 <+rane> we still have to figure out what happens when Foundation appoints someone who Devrel doesn't want to have a @gentoo.org
+21:08 <@quantumsummers|c> everything went really nicely
+21:08 < musikc> rane, any person that foundation appoints to any role still has to go through recruitment.
+21:08 <@fmccor> rane, We'd probably want to know why --- it might influence our decision.
+21:09 <+rane> there are people who were removed from gentoo and who retained their foundation memberships
+21:09 <+rane> they are a good example for this policy
+21:09 <@NeddySeagoon> rane, true
+21:09 <@fmccor> rane, true.
+21:09 < musikc> fmccor, perhaps someone forcibly removed would not be approved to be a dev merely based on their foundation role
+21:09 <@fmccor> musikc, rane got it.
+21:09 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, the project has the last say there
+21:10 <+rane> do we have any law stating somebody removed from the project may be subject for removal from the foundation as well?
+21:10 <+rane> and why not? :-)
+21:10 <@fmccor> No to the first.
+21:10 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, did you read my long rambling email ?
+21:10 < musikc> rane, there is something in bylaws about how foundation may revoke anyones membership
+21:11 < musikc> rane, 4.9: Membership may be terminated by a majority vote of the board of trustees in the event that any member acts contrary to the purpose(s) of the Gentoo Foundation.
+21:11 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, maybe
+21:11 < musikc> LOL
+21:11 < musikc> how long was it? i may have skimmed ;)
+21:11 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, the bit about Indemnification at the end ...
+21:12 <@quantumsummers|c> its is likely best practice to have a procedure coupling the project & foundation regarding forcible ejection
+21:12 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, hehe, i found it
+21:12 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, I think I disagree.
+21:13 <@quantumsummers|c> proceed sit
+21:13 <@quantumsummers|c> *sir
+21:13 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, It would be good to share that with devs as soon as possible ... not wait a year or make it optional on voting
+21:14 <@NeddySeagoon> Bylaws Section 12.1. Right to Indemnification for everyone else
+21:14 <@NeddySeagoon> http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/BylawsAdopted.xml
+21:14 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, I don't know that reasons for forcible removal from the project necessarily translate into reasons for removal from the Foundation if the person demonstrates a desire to help the foundation.
+21:15 <@quantumsummers|c> yes I can imagine that case, fmccor
+21:15 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, honestly that part was too legal imo
+21:15 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, At the least, such a person should have the opportunity to make the case to us.
+21:15 <@quantumsummers|c> ok
+21:15 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, makes me wonder wtf the meaning was when i finish the paragraph
+21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> One of the council is not a member of the foundation, so gets no benefit from Indemnification of members
+21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc it means if a member does something daft and gets sued, the foundation takes the hit
+21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> provided the member acted in good faith (at the time)
+21:17 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, you have one sentence with 196 words LOL
+21:17 <@quantumsummers|c> that's legalese, nice job Neddy
+21:17 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, its boiler plate from NM laws
+21:17 <@quantumsummers|c> also, it means that if the foundation is sues, the members are not liable
+21:17 <@fmccor> musikc, It's boilerplate that someone lifted from something. (No, not from NM, but from mozilla or something like that).
+21:17 <@quantumsummers|c> *is sued
+21:17 <@quantumsummers|c> wow
+21:18 <@fmccor> It's practically unreadable, but it means what NeddySeagoon said.
+21:18 < musikc> i understand that it's boiler plate, however its a hard read for our average developer.
+21:18 <@fmccor> It's hard to read for anyone.
+21:18 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, that para is the only benefit to membership
+21:18 < musikc> so maybe a small lil note section that says "could be translated to mean ... "
+21:19 < musikc> again our average dev age is 20 i think
+21:19 < musikc> im 30 and that hurt my head LOL
+21:19 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, yeah, agreed.
+21:19 * fmccor does not know why some lawyers are feel compelled to write like that --- it's easier just to steal something that's known to work than to make it readable.
+21:19 <@quantumsummers|c> maybe an executive summary of the bylaws for the devs
+21:19 <@fmccor> ^are feel^^feel^
+21:19 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, careful, sounds like you keep getting signed up for more secretary tasks ;)
+21:20 <@quantumsummers|c> it does, lol
+21:20 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, so what brought up that section 12.1 to discussion?
+21:20 < musikc> the fact that jokey isnt covered?
+21:20 <@NeddySeagoon> anyway, if we are going to have an active foundation, I would like all devs to belong as soon as possible.
+21:20 <@quantumsummers|c> jookey?
+21:21 <@quantumsummers|c> *jokey
+21:21 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, some devs, like kingtaco, deliberately avoided being a member
+21:21 <@quantumsummers|c> arrrgh
+21:21 <@tsunam> bah...
+21:21 <@tsunam> so late =/
+21:21 <@quantumsummers|c> hi tsunam
+21:21 < musikc> i dont even recall why though LOL
+21:21 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, one council member, who makes decisions for Gentoo is not a foundation member. If he gets sued, hes on his own
+21:21 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, All it says: If the Foundation acts a member to do something, the Foundation will take the hit if legal action results.
+21:22 <@fmccor> musikc, NeddySeagoon brought it up.
+21:22 <@quantumsummers|c> I understand the point well. I was asking about jokey.
+21:22 < musikc> fmccor, yup. i just wasnt sure why LOL thought i may have missed a sentence somewhere :)
+21:22 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, so it would be good to invite all devs to join early on
+21:23 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, as in remove the 1 year pre-req?
+21:23 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, yes
+21:23 <@quantumsummers|c> this membership roster is kept someplace?
+21:23 * musikc cant think of any problems with that
+21:23 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, yes
+21:23 <@quantumsummers|c> it appears that I am its keeper, qed role of sec
+21:23 * fmccor agrees with it too --- works to everyone's belefit he thinks.
+21:23 < musikc> anyone know why jokey isnt a member?
+21:23 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, jmbsvicetto has it.
+21:23 <@quantumsummers|c> ok
+21:24 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, do you need an assistant already :)
+21:24 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, If I have it on this system, I'll send it to you.
+21:24 < musikc> jmbsvicetto went offline when the meeting started, may want to send him an email
+21:24 <@quantumsummers|c> nah, I have interns, of course that is unless someone wants to volunteer
+21:24 < musikc> well went offline = said bye ;)
+21:24 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, hes not voted in a foundation election ... he should be offered though
+21:24 <@quantumsummers|c> I'll see what he says about it
+21:25 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, we all have the roster - its had one change since the Feb elections
+21:25 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, sounds ... well sound to me. perhaps an email to -core to express the interest?
+21:25 < musikc> i think we should still make it optional but explain that there are legal reasons ppl should consider it
+21:26 <@fmccor> quantumsummers|c, I don't. Remind me tomorrow and I can send it to you if no one else does.
+21:26 <@NeddySeagoon> We need the trustees to agree on the principle first ... otherwise, agreed
+21:26 <@quantumsummers|c> that is reasonable, can't force them
+21:26 < musikc> ahhhh
+21:26 * musikc found out why kingtaco didnt want to be a member
+21:26 <@tsunam> oh?
+21:26 < musikc> he didnt want to sign the copywrite infringement thing
+21:27 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, whats that ?
+21:27 < musikc> s/infringement/assignment
+21:27 < musikc> the thing that says your work belongs to Gentoo
+21:28 <@quantumsummers|c> hmm, gentoo is all gplv2 correct?
+21:28 < musikc> i believe foundation stopped enforcing it a while ago, but he never wanted to join in case it was later brought back
+21:28 <@quantumsummers|c> or creative commons attributuin
+21:28 <@fmccor> Foundation doesn't enforce it so far as I know.
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, before the foundation, it was drobbins Gentoo Technologies Inc ...
+21:29 < musikc> foundation USED to enforce it. kingtaco said he wouldnt sign hence wouldnt join. foundation stopped enforcing it and he never joined 'just in case'
+21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> It looks like we need to vote on scrapping the 1 year qualifying period for foundation membership ...
+21:29 <@fmccor> It's not a requirement for membership now.
+21:30 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, That's a bylaws change, I'd support it.
+21:30 < musikc> hehe, i didnt say you guys would like it. just that i found out. :-P
+21:30 -!- jokey [n=jokey@gentoo/developer/jokey] has joined #gentoo-trustees
+21:30 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, dmwaters tsunam ... thoughts, votes ... ?
+21:30 * musikc poked jokey re: his membership interest
+21:31 <@tsunam> about changing membership from being a year to much less?
+21:31 * jokey is interested
+21:31 <@NeddySeagoon> to on being appointed as a dev
+21:31 <@NeddySeagoon> optional ...
+21:31 * jokey notes to never have opted out though
+21:31 <@tsunam> hmm
+21:31 <@tsunam> I no strong oposition to it
+21:31 < musikc> jokey, old/current requirements are you have to actually vote in elections to become a member
+21:31 <@NeddySeagoon> jokey, you have to opt in by voting in a trustee election (just now)
+21:31 < musikc> however trustees are voting to say all devs should be able to be members UNLESS they opt out
+21:32 <@NeddySeagoon> dmwaters, ??
+21:32 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, nope ... it would be optional on becomming a dev
+21:32 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, so they have to ask nicely for it?
+21:32 < musikc> new devs are always nice ;-)
+21:32 < jokey> NeddySeagoon: ohkey, that seemed to have changed then as last time I talked about that to g2boojum all devs with +1year devship were foundation members automatically
+21:33 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, we put the appication form in their dev welcome pack :)
+21:33 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, It's something like a new section --- 4.5 Any active developer is eligible for membership by petitioning the trustees and ....
+21:33 < musikc> wtf, i didnt get a dev welcome pack :(
+21:33 <@quantumsummers|c> this membership needs to be more verbose/explicit
+21:33 < musikc> jokey, it is, IMO, in your best interest that you look into becoming a member ASAP for legal coverage
+21:33 * quantumsummers|c sends musikc a welcome basket of fruit & wine
+21:33 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, theres a pile beside the dev lounge whippy ice cream machine :)
+21:34 < musikc> see, i told you new devs are always nice :)
+21:34 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, ya but rane ate it all so i didnt bother poking around :-P
+21:35 * jokey wants a dev welcome pack and a form for signing up as foundation member as well
+21:35 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, can you add some words to the tracker bug please, as we are agreed to carry this forward
+21:35 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Yes.
+21:35 * quantumsummers|c hands out another welcome pack
+21:35 < musikc> jokey, i think you'll want to follow this bug: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=236863
+21:35 <@NeddySeagoon> anything else on our bylaws tracker ?
+21:36 < musikc> not at present. the bug stays open for new bylaws questions?
+21:36 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, yes ... until we update the bylaws, then we close that bug and start another
+21:37 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, im behind on my -nfp reading tbh
+21:37 < musikc> been a bit busy
+21:37 <@NeddySeagoon> moving on ... 5 Treasurers Report for FY ending 30 June 2008
+21:37 <@quantumsummers|c> anyone mind if I step away for 5 mins?
+21:37 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, your turn
+21:37 <@quantumsummers|c> oh, nm
+21:38 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: awaiting paperwork from capital one,
+21:38 <@tsunam> need to update our irs info so that I can get a copy of the ss-4/ other paperwork to send to the bank in question
+21:38 <@tsunam> paypal is a pain in the ass...
+21:39 <@NeddySeagoon> updates to the quarterly reports page ?
+21:39 <@quantumsummers|c> where is that?
+21:39 <@tsunam> been trying to get the reports from paypal..but the system's been down
+21:39 <@tsunam> everytime I've tried (5 times at least this week)
+21:39 <@tsunam> the report system
+21:39 <@tsunam> not paypal
+21:40 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/funds.xml links at the bottom
+21:40 <@quantumsummers|c> musikc: does the store put $ into paypal?
+21:40 <@quantumsummers|c> or how does that work?
+21:40 <@tsunam> quantumsummers|c: no
+21:40 <@quantumsummers|c> thanks NeddySeagoon
+21:40 <@tsunam> quantumsummers|c: doesn't go directly to paypal
+21:41 <@quantumsummers|c> tsunam: ok, bank then, direct deposit
+21:41 <@tsunam> quantumsummers|c: still working on the bank
+21:41 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, have you contacted paypal to confirm its their problem?
+21:41 <@tsunam> and unknown if it can direct deposit
+21:41 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: yep
+21:41 <@tsunam> "we're working on it""
+21:41 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, heh... like the cheque is in the post :)
+21:41 <@quantumsummers|c> want me to crawl up their arse about this, I'd enjoy that.
+21:41 <@tsunam> quantumsummers|c: nah
+21:42 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, look loke you can't do much more
+21:42 <@tsunam> quantumsummers|c: they've already had enough bitching from me, and I've gone up to their 3rd tier support :(
+21:42 <@NeddySeagoon> like*
+21:42 <@quantumsummers|c> ah, ok tsunam
+21:42 <@tsunam> on the reports plus their incompentent abilities with banks
+21:42 * quantumsummers|c is not surprised
+21:42 * NeddySeagoon does not have paypal
+21:43 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I hard ever use mine so..and with good reason
+21:43 * fmccor adds a proposed Section 4.5 to the tracker bug which allows andy developer to become a Foundation member by asking for it.
+21:43 < musikc> back, ran out of lemonade ;)
+21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> ok, lets move on ...
+21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> 6. # While we do not have a policy on international merchandise, we have a number of applications to consider
+21:44 <@NeddySeagoon> Tee Shirts for .cz ... they are offering 10% of the gross selling price, or $2 each to us
+21:44 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, we need to check on the store $. it USED to be setup so paypal wrote a check that was mailed to grant
+21:45 <@quantumsummers|c> ah, ok musikc
+21:45 < musikc> re: paypal... ive used them for years and honestly never had problems :(
+21:46 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, cafepress does offer direct to paypal though
+21:46 <@quantumsummers|c> ok
+21:47 <@tsunam> musikc: They've restricted the gentoo account 5 times in the last year
+21:47 <@quantumsummers|c> NeddySeagoon: are you talking about gentoo.cz ?
+21:47 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, do we get in a mess with international licencing if we approve things piecemeal before we have leagal advice ?
+21:47 <@fmccor> No, I don't think so.
+21:47 < musikc> tsunam, oh i understand, just stating why it surprises me. even wolf had problems with his account being hijacked once and paypal put it all back rather quickly.
+21:48 <@tsunam> musikc: *nods*
+21:48 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, its from emtom.cz
+21:49 <@NeddySeagoon> Tee Shirts for .cz ... they are offering 10% of the gross selling price, or $2 each to us
+21:49 <@quantumsummers|c> ah, to make the shirts
+21:49 <@NeddySeagoon> yep
+21:49 <@quantumsummers|c> sounds like a winner
+21:49 <@NeddySeagoon> 10% sounds ok too
+21:50 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, dmwaters fmccor ... ok with this ?
+21:50 <@quantumsummers|c> $20 a pop
+21:50 <@quantumsummers|c> hmm
+21:50 <@tsunam> sure
+21:50 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Main thing is that they have to mention someplace on their site that Gentoo is a trademark of the Gentoo foundation.
+21:51 <@fmccor> And yes, I'm OK with it.
+21:51 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yes
+21:51 <@NeddySeagoon> dmwaters, ^^
+21:51 <@dmwaters> i'm ok with it
+21:51 <@quantumsummers|c> NeddySeagoon: ?
+21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, what ?
+21:52 <@quantumsummers|c> just asking for your vote
+21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> I vote yes
+21:52 <@quantumsummers|c> & recording them
+21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> Nomally I have a casting vote, and don't vote unless its needed
+21:52 <@quantumsummers|c> I see
+21:54 <@NeddySeagoon> Projektfarm GmbH artwork use ... want to put our logo on a teaser ... its a very small link and they cannot comply with the notice requirement on out web page to have the attribution on the same page as the logo
+21:54 <@NeddySeagoon> Do we want to change the way we require attribution ?
+21:54 <@fmccor> Can they put it someplace?
+21:55 <@quantumsummers|c> what about the alt tect
+21:55 <@quantumsummers|c> text
+21:56 <@NeddySeagoon> on another page. Other copyright holders appear to waive the attribution requirement for very small logos, others still have a second logo with reduced requirements
+21:57 -!- mpagano [n=mpagano@gentoo/developer/mpagano] has quit ["Goodbye, all"]
+21:57 <@fmccor> I think we just need it someplace.
+21:57 <@NeddySeagoon> see Re: Logo/Artwork Usage 2008.08.24
+21:58 <@NeddySeagoon> on trustees@
+21:58 < musikc> fmccor, maybe another page off the foundation page?
+21:59 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, on the page the link points to perhaps ?
+22:01 <@fmccor> That's fine with me.
+22:01 <@NeddySeagoon> heres the problem http://www.howtoforge.com/ they want to use logos to the left of the distro names
+22:01 <@NeddySeagoon> replacing the current buttons
+22:02 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, dmwaters ^^
+22:02 <@quantumsummers|c> alt text would be appropriate in that case imo
+22:02 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, alt text ?
+22:03 <@tsunam> basically you hover and the text appears
+22:03 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+22:03 <@quantumsummers|c> yeah, what he said
+22:03 <@fmccor> I have no problem with it.
+22:03 <@NeddySeagoon> alt txt and on the target page then ?
+22:04 <@quantumsummers|c> they should be using alt text anyway for w3c compliance
+22:04 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, you happy with one, the other ...
+22:04 <@NeddySeagoon> dmwaters, ^^
+22:04 <@tsunam> either would work
+22:05 <@fmccor> It's to our advantage, after all.
+22:05 <@dmwaters> I'd go with alt text if i'm following this correctly
+22:05 <@fmccor> alt text is good.
+22:05 <@NeddySeagoon> ok, so we want our copyright notice in the image alt txt ?
+22:05 <@fmccor> Yes
+22:05 <@dmwaters> nod
+22:06 <@quantumsummers|c> like this www.gentoo.org - logo is trademark of gentoo foundation
+22:06 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
+22:06 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, it will be whatever text our website requires now
+22:06 <@quantumsummers|c> very well
+22:07 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, or we have to fix the site ... we should probably do that anyway to add the alt txt thing
+22:08 <@NeddySeagoon> others may want to follow
+22:08 <@quantumsummers|c> indeed
+22:08 <@NeddySeagoon> 7 Foundation Membership by Application
+22:08 <@NeddySeagoon> I think we covered that - its been added to the bug
+22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> 8 Any other business.
+22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> dmwaters, Any other business ?
+22:09 <@dmwaters> not that i can think of
+22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^^
+22:09 <@tsunam> nope
+22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, ?
+22:10 <@fmccor> No. I added the petition thing it to the bug, a proposed new section 4.5 --- It might take another sentence, then we should just vote on it.
+22:10 <+rane> what about rl03? does his level of involvement justify him being upgraded to a foundation officer or should he be retired from gentoo due to his inactivity?
+22:10 <@NeddySeagoon> we should try to do that for next meeting
+22:11 <@quantumsummers|c> I wish to propose an artwork contest. musikc does too, if I read her mind right. I will post to the trustees list, &/or -nfp for discussion.
+22:11 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, care to answer rane
+22:11 <+rane> i'm asking cause he's probably waiting for your reply to the mail i've forwarded to you guys
+22:11 <@fmccor> rane, I think as long as he's actively helping us, that qualifies for staff developer.
+22:11 <+rane> and it's been a couple of days already
+22:11 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, dont we have an artwork project?
+22:11 <+rane> but is he actively helping?
+22:11 <@quantumsummers|c> yes, contest
+22:11 <@fmccor> rane, Yes.
+22:11 <@NeddySeagoon> quantumsummers|c, -nfp if you want ideas from the community, trustees@ if it needs shaping first
+22:11 <+rane> is he officially appointed?
+22:12 <@fmccor> rane, He's providing us with introductions to people we need to talk with.
+22:12 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, no, i recall i think it was cla that worked on it
+22:12 < musikc> there was some contest a while back
+22:12 <@NeddySeagoon> rane, no yet, no
+22:12 <+rane> the only valid basis for a staffing accounts so far was official appointment as an officer (quantumsummers)
+22:12 < musikc> i need to look to find the project
+22:12 <+rane> if he's not appointed, i'm unsure whether he's eligible for a staffer account in gentoo
+22:12 <@tsunam> fmccor: i respecfully disagree with you there
+22:12 <@tsunam> I don't think its enough to be a developer still
+22:12 <@fmccor> rane, Not right now, after all, at the moment he is a developer.
+22:12 <@dmwaters> rane: userrel and devrel people could as staffers why can't rl3
+22:13 <@dmwaters> count
+22:13 <@NeddySeagoon> rane, can we postpone this discussion until October ?
+22:13 <@fmccor> tsunam, if he gets upset and declines to help us, we lose, not him.
+22:13 <+rane> fmccor, he would be retired if it wasn't for his involvement with the foundation since he has no activity in the project for months
+22:13 <+rane> no commits for past 8 months
+22:13 <@tsunam> fmccor: and being staff avoids that how?
+22:13 <@tsunam> fmccor: theres no logic in that
+22:13 <+rane> can we postpone? why not
+22:13 <+rane> just please tell him that :-)
+22:14 <+rane> cause he's waiting for a response from gentoo
+22:14 < musikc> tsunam, the guy said, iirc, that he'd help IF he got to keep his address
+22:14 <@fmccor> tsunam, He said he wanted to remain a developer because he was helping the foundation.
+22:14 <@NeddySeagoon> rane, he has no official foundation office today but it might be good not to retire hime just now too
+22:14 <+rane> i forwarded his mail to trustees@
+22:14 <@fmccor> I can't see telling him that no, we're retiring him but we still need his help.
+22:15 <@tsunam> musikc: then that's a talk with infra about keeping a forward for him
+22:15 <@tsunam> more then anything
+22:15 <@tsunam> *points to daniel as an example of a perm forward*
+22:15 < musikc> hmmm... that makes sense
+22:15 < musikc> does he need to keep developer status or just want that email address?
+22:15 <@tsunam> no need to be staff
+22:15 <+rane> we have trouble cleaning perm forwards already
+22:15 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, can we postpone until our next meeting ? menawhile nothing changes
+22:16 <@tsunam> point being...I've yet to see a valid reason he needs to have the developer title
+22:16 <+rane> i don't know if infra will agree to give them to people easily
+22:16 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: sure
+22:16 <@fmccor> tsunam, what's the harm? He's a developer now --- just don't retire him at the moment.
+22:16 <@NeddySeagoon> ok, we will postpone with rl03 until the October meeting
+22:16 <+rane> his project involvement certainly isn't taht reason, if his foundation involvement isn't either then he just should be retired
+22:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Date of next meeting
+22:17 <+rane> fair enough, it waited half a year already, can wait a few weeks more
+22:17 <@tsunam> fmccor: lots of reasons...and your response is the same as if I would say..whats the harm in retiring him but allowing him to keep @gentoo address... he can still help as he see's fit
+22:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Its either Sunday 19 Oct, or Mon 20th, do we want a Sun or Mon ?
+22:17 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/artwork/index.xml
+22:17 <@dmwaters> sunday
+22:18 <@fmccor> Don't much care.
+22:18 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Sunday ?
+22:18 <@tsunam> sure
+22:19 <@quantumsummers|c> musikc: I was thinking more for t-shirts than wallpapers, etc.
+22:19 <@NeddySeagoon> DONM Sunday 19 Oct, 1900 UTC (thats my birthday :( )
+22:19 <@quantumsummers|c> though it could be both
+22:19 <@dmwaters> NeddySeagoon: hehe
+22:20 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, i understand except think it'd be worthwhile to find people who may already have an expressed interest
+22:20 <@quantumsummers|c> yes, you are right musikc
+22:20 <@NeddySeagoon> Last Item ... 9. Open floor
+22:20 <@quantumsummers|c> will contact & CC musikc
+22:20 < musikc> quantumsummers|c, contact who?
+22:20 <@quantumsummers|c> the artwork folks
+22:20 < musikc> heh, i already have welp in IM ;)
+22:21 <@NeddySeagoon> Oh, I have one more item ...
+22:21 <@quantumsummers|c> well, feel free to ask him
+22:21 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, ?
+22:21 <@NeddySeagoon> I would like to table a motion to wish tsunam happy birthday tommow
+22:22 <@tsunam> thanks
+22:22 <@quantumsummers|c> hey, three cheers for tsunam
+22:22 <@dmwaters> tsunam: happy birthday
+22:22 <@fmccor> tsunam, Enjoy.
+22:22 <@tsunam> will try
+22:22 <@NeddySeagoon> Thats only an 1:30 min away here
+22:23 <@tsunam> hehe
+22:23 <@tsunam> few hours for me
+22:23 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more for Open Floor ?
+22:23 <@NeddySeagoon> Meeting closed ... thanks everyone