<quantumsummers_> shall we begin?
<quantumsummers_> we could have an abbreviated meeting, and take some of it to mail. what do you think/
<quantumsummers_> I think at least some of this needs discussion
<quantumsummers_> like the logo policy bits
<dabbott> lets discuss on the ml, its just too much for a meeting, we can even form a committee of interested and knowledgeable parties
<quantumsummers_> rich0: any objections?
<rich0> Well, let's at least talk a little about the logos before taking it offline.
<quantumsummers_> sure, sounds reasonable
<rich0> maybe just to get a sense for initial thoughts
<rich0> No need to try to drive any conclusions though.
<dabbott> my intital thought is some simple like the debian policy just one logo
<rich0> Most of the polices seemed to have some common themes:
<rich0> 1. No separate copyright/trademark license. They just had one policy that covered use across the board.
<dabbott> one logo for official, one open logo
<rich0> That was common as well.
<quantumsummers_> my 0.02 is that we need to protect our logo/name/mark while also allowing our users to be creative with it for non-commercial/community/personal purposes. In the case of a commercial use, we should require licensing with favorable terms like any other trademark.
<rich0> There seemed to be some variance on whether you could put the logo on for-sale items. Some allowed, and some didn't.
<quantumsummers_> there is some variance with for-sale items in floss orgs
<rich0> Many distros don't require payment to stick a logo on distribution media, if it is identical to official media.
<rich0> Then there is the "remix" concept in all the ubuntu-derived ones.
<quantumsummers_> right, I see no issue with that. I am more thinking of t-shirts, etc that people make money from
<dabbott> I am also confused as to the font used for official use
<rich0> Some distros were much more specific about font/etc than others.
<quantumsummers_> yes, ubuntu even has their own font
<rich0> I see that as a secondary goal. Maybe after license worry about fonts/etc, unless we get a volunteer willing to create a "branding guide" for us or something.
<quantumsummers_> one thing to note, the font is largely irrelevant to the use of the name
<rich0> Being that "Gentoo is about choice" and all that, my sense is that we should be relatively permissive about what you can call "Gentoo" - Gentoo isn't about a consistent experience like it is on some other distros. I can see the value in limiting commercial use since the revenue does benefit Gentoo.
<quantumsummers_> this is true, rich0
<quantumsummers_> as far as community-use, non-commercial use, and personal use, I see no issue using the mark
<robbat2|na> my bad, i'm late again
<dabbott> hi robbat2|na
<rich0> Maybe have specific wording to apply to copies of the official Gentoo install media so that people can tell what it is. However, a Chromebook can be "Gentoo" as much as a more traditional Gentoo install.
<quantumsummers_> for commercial purposes or something that is going to make money (produce a non-negligible profit) I think there must be some licensing rules.
<quantumsummers_> hi robbat2|na, glad ya made it
<rich0> Well, we don't need to spell those out so much - most of the distros say "call us" for that stuff.
<quantumsummers_> rich0: right
<quantumsummers_> to address the official versus non-official install media, we may just want to say just that on the disk
<rich0> Some distros basically said "here is what you can do for free, anything else - contact us" and maybe gave some examples of what might require a "contact" with a note that it wasn't exhaustive.
<quantumsummers_> rich0: seems fine, would give a lot of control per case
<quantumsummers_> we could make an "official gentoo media" seal to denote such a thing, as an option
<rich0> Any concerns with trying to have some kind of "creative commons" copyright license? Unless not having one causes problems I'd probably perfer to stop offering that license and just spell out what you can and can't do.
<rich0> quantumsummers_, I tend to agree on the media bit
<quantumsummers_> something should be easy to do too, I have considered as much with custom bootup framebuffer logo for myself too
<rich0> Any other thoughts around the license? I think we could try to capture some of these elements in an email to -nfp or -project and put it out for comment. Then based on guidance create a license. Maybe consider basing it on whatever is closest to our intent? Ubuntu in particular encourages copying.
<quantumsummers_> ok. so it sounds like we will allow free use for community/personal/non-commercial purposes. any commercial use should be dealt with case by case
<rich0> I think that's the gist of it. I think we're largely on the same page.
<dabbott> quantumsummers_, yes sounds good to me
<quantumsummers_> ok good. I am happy to draft a brief email to -nfp to get a discussion started
<robbat2|na> roughly on the same page, it's just agreeing on the last 10% that will take the other 90% of the time
<quantumsummers_> yep, always that way
<quantumsummers_> robbat2|na: what are your thoughts on this so far?
<dabbott> debians official logo adds the lamp to the logo to seperate it from the open logo looks like
<quantumsummers_> not real sure what we could add ...
<rich0> I think that will be something we need to figure out - if we want a dual logo.
<robbat2|na> i'm not so fussed about media, as long as it identifies as being gentoo-derived, it's uses where our imagery/artwork are used to identify as not gentoo, or to imply Gentoo's support of something
<robbat2|na> that bug me
<rich0> To be honest I've never really seen the debian official logo - it was news to me when I read that page.
<quantumsummers_> yeah, I am with you there robbat2|na
<rich0> I'd only worry about having a second logo if we plan to actually use it.
<quantumsummers_> as far as media goes, some "official foo" would suffice without altering the media
<quantumsummers_> or having another logo
<rich0> Tend to agree- I think "official wording" might be just as good as a logo.
<rich0> Just like how other distros say use "remix" and not "version" or "edition" or whatever.
<rich0> I think the key is being clear on being "based on" Gentoo, or "powered by" or whatever.
<rich0> No two Gentoo users have quite the same install anyway.
<quantumsummers_> perhaps all we really need to do is provide some guidance for derivative distros, and leave the users to their own
<quantumsummers_> I think the only real concern is when its commerical
<quantumsummers_> in that case, its likely we won't even know what is happening or the gentoo elements are buried (i.e. the nasdaq system that has been commercialized, or chromebook respectively)
<robbat2|na> the nasdaq one differs in that it's not distributed
<robbat2|na> while the chromebook one is
<quantumsummers_> nasdaq, it is distributed, sold, etc
<quantumsummers_> just not widely
<robbat2|na> the chromebook case has a GPL followthrough, the source needs to be made available
<quantumsummers_> this is true
<robbat2|na> quantumsummers_, do you have a reference for "nasdaq, it is distributed, sold, etc" <-- their gentoo platform?
<quantumsummers_> robbat2|na: I will find it. Perhaps I misread, but I believe they were advertising the "platform" for other stock markets
<robbat2|na> they have a software package that's "NASDAQ" that runs on top of Linux
<robbat2|na> you can deploy it on any distro
<quantumsummers_> hmm, perhaps that is what I read.
<rich0> Unless they're violating GPL or whatever not really much of a concern - if they don't use the Gentoo logo they can basically do whatever they want as long as they make the source available to whoever they give it to.
<quantumsummers_> ^^ this is true
<rich0> I got the impression their Gentoo use was more back-end in nature.
<robbat2|na> they're not actually distributing any Gentoo-derived stuff, from what I gathered
<quantumsummers_> ok, seems ok then, I must have misinterpreted the language
<rich0> Anything further to discuss here? I'd suggest taking the rest offline.
<quantumsummers_> anymore on this? shall we take this to the alias for discussion or straight to the -nfp ML?
<quantumsummers_> heh, yes
<rich0> That is - the rest of the license issue.
<quantumsummers_> fine by me
<rich0> I'd go straight to nfp - I think we hashed out much of it and we try to work in the open. Nothing sensitive here.
<quantumsummers_> alrighty, will draft that up quicly
<dabbott> good here
<quantumsummers_> ok then, moving along
<quantumsummers_> sflc update
<dabbott> Who is our "Counsel" http://www.softwarefreedom.org/about/team/
<quantumsummers_> dabbott: it was Karen Sandler
<quantumsummers_> she left though
<quantumsummers_> further, she has not returned any email for months on end
<quantumsummers_> or phone calls
<quantumsummers_> I think we need to email Daniel
<dabbott> he wanted you to be the contact so if you could please
<quantumsummers_> yes, ok
<dabbott> thanks strange they were so interested then nothing
<quantumsummers_> when I send you guys email, you get it ok right? its not marked as spam or whatever when I send it via googlemail is it?
<quantumsummers_> dabbott: I have my theory about that, but its not very nice or well founded most likely
<rich0> No issues - at least for the email that I get. :)
<rich0> I can't tell you much about the email that I don't get...
<dabbott> quantumsummers_, pretty sure I am getting them
<quantumsummers_> if you get one, you should get them all
<quantumsummers_> yeah, I think its fine, I have tested enough
<quantumsummers_> ok, its on my list. moving along
<quantumsummers_> cpa, 1023: no substantial change.
<_robbat2|irssi> back (just mobile around the house for a few)
<quantumsummers_> NM filings, rich0 and I are on this. I received bad instructions from Heather regarding the number of signatures required
<quantumsummers_> so, its being taken care of
<rich0> (slowly) :)
<rich0> (not for our part)
<quantumsummers_> rich0: I think that if you have not received it by wednesday, then we should switch to plan B
<rich0> Sounds good - I'll send you an update Wed PM.
<quantumsummers_> I wonder, based on the info, if we even need them in the loop for this filing
<_robbat2|irssi> when does the 30 day extension run till?
<rich0> Obviously I'll turn it around immediately if I get it sooner.
<quantumsummers_> _robbat2|irssi: was never stated explicitly
<quantumsummers_> I suspect its the end of December
<quantumsummers_> I have a hard time believing its taken this long to get to you rich0
<robbat2|na> you wrote the status update on nov 17th, and 30 days from that was yesterday
<quantumsummers_> it was supposedly sent out on the 6th
<rich0> US mail tends to take two days.
<rich0> Maybe an extra day for the holidays.
<quantumsummers_> _robbat2|irssi: I received notice of the extension at the end of Nov, the 29th I believe
<quantumsummers_> the 6th to now is a long time
<rich0> However, if they sent it regular first class there are no guarantees. If they misaddressed it then it could be anywhere.
<robbat2|na> no tracking number?
<rich0> I'd suggest pinging them and confirming the delivery address.
<quantumsummers_> rich0: ok, I will re-print and overnight tomorrow morning. If you get it and re-ship same day we can get it to NM before Friday no prob
<quantumsummers_> I don't really want to mess around with this right not, I'd rather just take care of it
<rich0> Seems likely.
<rich0> Works for me - I'll look out for it.
<rich0> Just to confirm: 521 E CHERRY LN
<rich0> SOUDERTON PA 18964-1235
<quantumsummers_> rich0: that is the same address I sent to Chew
<rich0> Ok, and don't leave out the "E" - for some reason the people of old around here loved the word "Cherry" and didn't care to coordinate their numbering.
<rich0> The ZIP+4 should do the trick though.
<rich0> That is usually unique to within a few houses.
<quantumsummers_> ok, should be good on that.. yeah the E is important
<quantumsummers_> same issue here too, we have east and west numbers
<rich0> That and we have Cherry Streets, Roads, etc.
<quantumsummers_> on moving on
<quantumsummers_> not to mention trees
<quantumsummers_> ok, so the activity tracker looks good
<quantumsummers_> anything there?
<quantumsummers_> or not there?
<rich0> Nothing to add here - next item is taxes in April.
<quantumsummers_> ok, open bugs
<quantumsummers_> anything that needs immediate attention?
<quantumsummers_> the licensing bits are going to the ML
<robbat2|na> no followup from me, i've just been too busy
<quantumsummers_> ok then, no new business that I am aware of
<quantumsummers_> lets take care of the new membership application from Johannes Huber
<quantumsummers_> he is a dev
<quantumsummers_> motion to approve
<quantumsummers_> I can email his
<quantumsummers_> nothing more there
<quantumsummers_> Date of Next Meeting - 15th Jan 2011 19:00 UTC
<quantumsummers_> will that work?
<dabbott> fine here
<robbat2|na> quantumsummers_, when is your wife's baby due again?
<quantumsummers_> I am on delivery watch, but should be fine ... she is due the 20th of Jan
<rich0> fine here
<quantumsummers_> coming up, 35.5 weeks today
<robbat2|na> the 15th is free on my calendar
<quantumsummers_> ok then, let it be so
<quantumsummers_> I will email folks, who can post logs, update motions page?
<dabbott> I will update the motion page and post the logs Mon
<quantumsummers_> forgot to ask who was logging at the beginning
<quantumsummers_> although I suspect we all were
<quantumsummers_> dabbott: thanks
<quantumsummers_> alright, anything else from the board?
<quantumsummers_> going once
<robbat2|na> none from me
<quantumsummers_> going twice
<rich0> none here
<quantumsummers_> going thrice
<dabbott> none here
<quantumsummers_> sold, no AOB
<quantumsummers_> ok then
<quantumsummers_> OPEN FLOOR
<quantumsummers_> anyone who wishes to bring matters to the board, please speak nowe
* quantumsummers_ looks around
* quantumsummers_ waits 15 more seconds
<quantumsummers_> ok meeting adorned. Thank you, fellow board members, for attending.