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Mar 18 15:10:25 <rich0>	Ok, I can chair...
Mar 18 15:10:32 <rich0>	Roll call...
Mar 18 15:10:37 <robbat2>	we can give it a quick spin of meeting items
Mar 18 15:10:41 <robbat2>	present
Mar 18 15:10:45 <dabbott>	here
Mar 18 15:10:56 <rich0>	Ok
Mar 18 15:11:05 <rich0>	I'm logging - I'm sure others are as well.
Mar 18 15:11:06 <dabbott>	i am logging
Mar 18 15:11:11 <rich0>	Excellent
Mar 18 15:11:24 <rich0>	Old business - logo policy.
Mar 18 15:11:49 <rich0>	I have not had a chance to post anything yet.  I did note a ping on a bug regarding the copyright on the logo.
Mar 18 15:11:59 <rich0>	Probably best to defer that to the new policy.
Mar 18 15:12:03 <rich0>	Anything else on that topic?
Mar 18 15:12:13 <robbat2>	nothing else
Mar 18 15:12:23 <dabbott>	nope
Mar 18 15:12:38 <rich0>	(FYI - anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is welcome to do so, but I haven't given up...)
Mar 18 15:12:50 <rich0>	Ok, anything on SFLC?
Mar 18 15:13:00 <robbat2>	if/when i get around to the privacy policy i might do logos at the same time
Mar 18 15:13:19 <rich0>	robbat2, by all means go ahead if you get to it first.
Mar 18 15:13:53 <dabbott>	quantumsummers, did note he got a positive response from SFLC
Mar 18 15:14:15 <rich0>	Excellent - glad to see that seems to be moving forward again.
Mar 18 15:14:30 <rich0>	Maybe by the time we have a new logo policy there will be somebody to review it for us.  :)
Mar 18 15:15:15 <rich0>	Any other details worth sharing, otherwise we can let quantumsummers give us the full run-down next month.
Mar 18 15:16:21 <rich0>	Ok, if not, skipping down to the activity tracker, only thing worth mentioning is that we're coming up on the 990 due date - assuming it isn't already filed.
Mar 18 15:16:35 <rich0>	If it is feel free to update the last-performed and next-due info.
Mar 18 15:17:08 <rich0>	I imagine we'll need an update from quantumsummers on that...
Mar 18 15:17:26 <rich0>	Any questions on the activity tracker?
Mar 18 15:17:56 <robbat2>	none from me
Mar 18 15:18:00 <rich0>	Ok, then moving on...
Mar 18 15:18:05 <rich0>	Bugs...
Mar 18 15:18:30 <dabbott>	looks like the same from last month
Mar 18 15:19:04 <rich0>	Yes - skimming now...
Mar 18 15:19:12 <rich0>	I see notecase-pro is masked
Mar 18 15:19:12 <robbat2>	bug 399397 needs action
Mar 18 15:19:39 <rich0>	Didn't we ask them for a formal proposal?
Mar 18 15:19:50 <dabbott>	yes
Mar 18 15:20:00 <rich0>	So, we're still waiting for a response, yes?
Mar 18 15:20:01 <dabbott>	tampakrap, ^^
Mar 18 15:20:42 <dabbott>	it is his minion :)
Mar 18 15:21:20 <rich0>	I can do a quick reply-all to the Jan 19th email reminding them that we're willing to evaluate any proposal.
Mar 18 15:21:32 <dabbott>	++
Mar 18 15:21:48 <robbat2>	i updated 399209 and 389989. I think reimbursement was sent to antarus on them, but i don't know if he got it yet
Mar 18 15:22:17 <tampakrap>	hi
Mar 18 15:22:47 <rich0>	tampakrap, just sent you an email
Mar 18 15:22:57 *	ABCD (~quassel@gentoo/developer/abcd) has joined #gentoo-trustees
Mar 18 15:23:01 <rich0>	Are you still planning to write up a proposal for FOSSCON?
Mar 18 15:23:05 <tampakrap>	you will have more news soon, we had a meeting as gentoo greek community, the guys are in the process of finding a good price to print the materials
Mar 18 15:23:39 <rich0>	Excellent - and you don't necessarily need the exact figures to get approval.
Mar 18 15:23:50 <tampakrap>	noted
Mar 18 15:23:55 <rich0>	You'll need the receipts for actual reimbursement, but as long as you're within the approved budget you'll be fine.
Mar 18 15:24:53 <tampakrap>	sure, thank you
Mar 18 15:25:03 <rich0>	you're welcome - thanks for organizing!
Mar 18 15:25:17 <robbat2>	bug 403701, i committed it
Mar 18 15:25:17 <willikins>	robbat2: https://bugs.gentoo.org/403701 "dev-games/hawknl-1.68-r1 invalid ebuild header"; Gentoo Linux, Ebuilds; CONF; ulm:qa
Mar 18 15:25:18 <tampakrap>	(I don't live in Greece any more, I can just poke people and act as a middle man)
Mar 18 15:26:11 <rich0>	I think bug 405803 is actionable, but perhaps we should wait for all to voice their opinions?
Mar 18 15:26:13 <willikins>	rich0: https://bugs.gentoo.org/405803 "[science-overlay] sci-libs/amdlibm-3.0.1 released and ebuild updates"; Gentoo Linux, Ebuilds; CONF; ua_gentoo_bugzilla:sci
Mar 18 15:26:41 <rich0>	Rather than wait another month perhaps worth pinging all via email.
Mar 18 15:27:04 <rich0>	Particularly in light of ulm's note.
Mar 18 15:27:23 <rich0>	Anybody care to comment on that one now?
Mar 18 15:27:32 <robbat2>	i'm reviewing it atm
Mar 18 15:28:22 <rich0>	I'd probably want to read the license in the tarball in light of his comment before passing final judgment.  Obviously if nothing else the ebuild license needs to be fixed.
Mar 18 15:30:20 <robbat2>	ok, I can comment on it solidly now
Mar 18 15:30:30 <robbat2>	the license isn't why we need RESTRICT=fetch
Mar 18 15:30:36 <robbat2>	it's the export restrictions on it
Mar 18 15:31:06 <robbat2>	rich0, ^^^
Mar 18 15:31:23 *	|miska| (~|miska|@queeg.hrusecky.net) has joined #gentoo-trustees
Mar 18 15:31:34 <rich0>	Is it actually export restricted?
Mar 18 15:31:44 <rich0>	Clause 11 just says that it "may" be restricted.
Mar 18 15:31:50 <rich0>	Perhaps it is a boilerplate clause.
Mar 18 15:32:18 <robbat2>	no, that software is actually export restricted
Mar 18 15:33:16 <robbat2>	background on it, is that some implementations of high-performance math libraries are restricted so that they can't be used for nuclear/weapons development
Mar 18 15:33:48 <dabbott>	interesting
Mar 18 15:34:08 <robbat2>	i'll write an answer on the bug
Mar 18 15:34:36 <rich0>	Can you find some documentation somewhere that supports that this particular package is export restricted?  
Mar 18 15:34:47 <rich0>	Not necessarily right now...
Mar 18 15:35:01 <rich0>	Ok, my comments on the bug were primarily from a copyright standpoint.
Mar 18 15:35:29 <rich0>	I'll have to think about it some about whether posting URLs to export-restricted materials is potentially illegal.  That probably shouldn't be done lightly.
Mar 18 15:36:37 <rich0>	Ok, so why don't we ping the alias to trigger some more offline discussion - I don't think we need to try to resolve this now - especially with only three of us.
Mar 18 15:36:46 <rich0>	Any other comments on that one?
Mar 18 15:36:56 <robbat2>	We explicitly direct people to AMD's download page
Mar 18 15:37:05 <robbat2>	and that places the burden of proof on AMD
Mar 18 15:37:09 <robbat2>	which they already have set up
Mar 18 15:37:12 <robbat2>	to verify country
Mar 18 15:37:28 <robbat2>	if you follow the download link
Mar 18 15:37:29 <rich0>	No issues with that, but there was a concern about a src_uri that skips the webpage in the ebuild.
Mar 18 15:37:31 <robbat2>	from the initial page
Mar 18 15:37:38 <robbat2>	that we must not do
Mar 18 15:38:22 <rich0>	Ok, any other bug-related items?
Mar 18 15:38:27 <rich0>	This or otherwise?
Mar 18 15:38:45 <dabbott>	none here
Mar 18 15:38:59 <robbat2>	re export restrictions: there is a large wavier on most open-source software from export restrictions, but this is closed-source, so doesn't qualify for the waiver
Mar 18 15:39:14 *	NeddySeagoon (~NeddySeag@gentoo/developer/NeddySeagoon) has joined #gentoo-trustees
Mar 18 15:39:15 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to NeddySeagoon
Mar 18 15:39:34 <rich0>	NeddySeagoon, welcome back to the land of the waking.  :)
Mar 18 15:39:55 <rich0>	We were just finishing discussion on bugs.
Mar 18 15:40:04 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, thanks.  The work VPN just died on me. So I'm having a break
Mar 18 15:40:22 *	dabbott serves NeddySeagoon some soft icecream
Mar 18 15:40:35 <rich0>	robbat2, I'll have to do some reading up on export restrictions - that wasn't even on my radar - good catch.  We can finish that one up soon I think.
Mar 18 15:40:53 <rich0>	Ok, any new business - anyone?
Mar 18 15:40:59 <dabbott>	update | redo "Quarterly Financial Reports"; http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/finances/
Mar 18 15:41:47 <rich0>	 dabbott, looks like that page is a bit stale
Mar 18 15:41:57 <dabbott>	I will add it to the agenda for next month
Mar 18 15:42:30 <rich0>	Maybe that and the missing treasurer's report?
Mar 18 15:42:34 <dabbott>	at one point we were going to come up with a new system for reporting
Mar 18 15:42:35 <rich0>	Unless that was rectified?
Mar 18 15:42:52 <rich0>	Might be best to wait until quantumsummers can comment on that.
Mar 18 15:43:07 <dabbott>	yes
Mar 18 15:43:27 <rich0>	Well, no harm putting both on the agenda.
Mar 18 15:43:35 <rich0>	Anything else?
Mar 18 15:44:20 <rich0>	Ok, then on to cleanup...
Mar 18 15:44:30 <rich0>	Date of next meeting - 15th Apr 2012 19:00 UTC
Mar 18 15:44:45 <dabbott>	ok here
Mar 18 15:45:10 <robbat2>	tampakrap has something for open floor shortly
Mar 18 15:45:11 <rich0>	ditto
Mar 18 15:45:15 <robbat2>	checking my cal
Mar 18 15:45:16 <rich0>	excellent
Mar 18 15:45:22 <tampakrap>	my turn?
Mar 18 15:45:23 <dabbott>	also i will post the log, and Minutes
Mar 18 15:45:24 <NeddySeagoon>	I'll do my best but work is a bit unpredictable
Mar 18 15:45:32 <rich0>	tampakrap, just a minute...
Mar 18 15:45:45 <robbat2>	i _should_ be back from Silicon Valley by then i hoke
Mar 18 15:45:46 <robbat2>	*hope
Mar 18 15:45:56 <rich0>	Ok, I'll email re the amd bug.
Mar 18 15:46:08 <rich0>	so, I think that is it - open floor.
Mar 18 15:46:12 <rich0>	tampakrap, go ahead...
Mar 18 15:46:42 <tampakrap>	the past three months I've been living in Prague, where I have another colleague from Gentoo here, |miska|
Mar 18 15:47:01 <tampakrap>	and we had the idea of organizing a gentoo conference here
Mar 18 15:47:20 <tampakrap>	we have plenty of ideas for it, one was to co-host it with another local conference
Mar 18 15:47:39 <tampakrap>	it will take place probably next year, which will give us some time to prepare
Mar 18 15:48:04 <tampakrap>	I'd like the support of the foundation for this though from the beginning, especially in funding people to come here
Mar 18 15:48:21 <tampakrap>	since we will be able to cover the costs with local sponsorships
Mar 18 15:48:38 <tampakrap>	so I'd like to first of all know if the foundation is willing to have such an event
Mar 18 15:49:13 <tampakrap>	I believe it will be great for our community and developers for various (and obvious) reasons
Mar 18 15:49:43 <NeddySeagoon>	tampakrap, what people do you think need help with  funding  for travel ?
Mar 18 15:49:57 <robbat2>	have we ever resolved under what conditions we can give a developer money other than reimbursing for purchases on behalf of Gentoo, specifically with no benefit to the developer, so that we don't come afoul of the IRS rules?
Mar 18 15:50:19 <tampakrap>	developers, for example the kde eV funds developers to go to akademy or smaller events
Mar 18 15:50:48 <robbat2>	the eV isn't under US tax law ;-)
Mar 18 15:50:54 <rich0>	I suspect that we can legally fund travel, to some extent.  I did some research and I couldn't find any clear bans on this from the IRS.  Now, affordability is a different matter - that can get REALLY expensive fast and we need to try to be equitable.
Mar 18 15:51:55 <NeddySeagoon>	robbat2, I think it needs to be to cover costs incurred in the performance of the business of the foundation.  That way there is no benefit to the individual.  Attending the conference would be the business of the foundation 
Mar 18 15:52:19 <rich0>	I suspect the biggest IRS issue is that the foundation can't be some kind of front for making tax-deductible payments to ourselves.  If most of the money goes from contributors to others for purposes clearly aligned to our mission (which is non-profit), I suspect we'll be fine.
Mar 18 15:52:38 <rich0>	I think a key factor is that we can't just be paying people to show up.
Mar 18 15:52:47 <robbat2>	if we picked up block of accommodation somehow, as a large org, that might be good for equitable coverage?
Mar 18 15:52:58 <tampakrap>	I have thought about that as well
Mar 18 15:53:10 <rich0>	If somebody is making a significant sacrifice of time and this is just something that is enabling, then that probably makes more sense than flying people around to sit in the audience.
Mar 18 15:53:16 <tampakrap>	get rooms cheaper in a hotel, organize official parties etc
Mar 18 15:53:30 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0,++
Mar 18 15:53:53 <robbat2>	large dorm setups as well
Mar 18 15:53:58 <NeddySeagoon>	tampakrap, how many people do you have in mind ?
Mar 18 15:54:02 <tampakrap>	for europeans it won't be much of a problem, we could even organize a bus for germany and other countries
Mar 18 15:54:06 <robbat2>	like university residences in off-season
Mar 18 15:54:15 <tampakrap>	but for the US guys, you'll be needed
Mar 18 15:54:27 <tampakrap>	about 200 gentoo people much I believe
Mar 18 15:54:34 <tampakrap>	excluding local
Mar 18 15:54:50 <NeddySeagoon>	tampakrap, thats the entire active dev population
Mar 18 15:55:10 <tampakrap>	non-devs / active contributors as well
Mar 18 15:55:38 *	ABCD has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
Mar 18 15:56:04 <robbat2>	SFO -> PRG is about $1400, NYC -> PRG is about $1200
Mar 18 15:56:09 <NeddySeagoon>	tampakrap, We may be able to fund speakers and gentoo people having an active part in the conference. Ordinary attendees, unlikely
Mar 18 15:56:15 <rich0>	I think we need to be realistic.  I doubt we can afford to be sending large populations to conferences, paying for hotels, etc.  Now, if paying for one bus would make logistical sense and it were a pretty full bus maybe that would be more practical.  However, paying for rooms and food for a whole bus might be tough.
Mar 18 15:57:17 <tampakrap>	kde for example books many rooms in a few hotels and I believe it pays for 80% of them either way, even if they don't get covered
Mar 18 15:57:23 <rich0>	For the most part I think Gentoo sponsorship should either about funding somebody who is making a major sacrifice of time, or it should be about providing a little help to people who are otherwise willing to mostly foot their own bills.
Mar 18 15:57:26 <tampakrap>	and the prices of the hotels are affordable
Mar 18 15:57:39 <NeddySeagoon>	We could make a contribution to the costs. People would eat anyway - so there is a case for not paying the full cost of food.
Mar 18 15:58:24 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, Thats what I was trying to say but you said it better than me
Mar 18 15:58:44 <robbat2>	tampakrap, can you scout for: 1. block booking prices for hotels 2. if this is going to be off-season for a local university that is very close by, look if they have residence conference programs
Mar 18 15:59:04 <rich0>	I have no issue with some level of contribution, but it has to be backed by accomplishment and have an impact in line with the costs.  $1k goes a lot further on server farms than on food.
Mar 18 15:59:29 <tampakrap>	yes, as I said an idea is to co-host it with a big local event, so the costs and the organizing will be easier and split with some locals
Mar 18 15:59:35 <rich0>	However, I'm certainly willing to consider any proposal.
Mar 18 15:59:57 <rich0>	Co-hosting with other FOSS-oriented events makes sense.  
Mar 18 16:00:04 <robbat2>	for economy of scale yes
Mar 18 16:00:32 <rich0>	Also for outreach, cross-polination, etc.  If I just want to make a bunch of Gentoo devs aware of something I can post on the list.
Mar 18 16:00:42 *	differentreality (~Stella@gentoo-el.org) has joined #gentoo-trustees
Mar 18 16:01:04 <tampakrap>	not yet, I need to have something in my hands before throwing a full proposal
Mar 18 16:01:10 <tampakrap>	or announcing it to anyone
Mar 18 16:01:53 <robbat2>	also consider timing to not conflict with other conferences elsewhere
Mar 18 16:01:54 <rich0>	Understood (though note that this whole irc log is going on the website.)  :)
Mar 18 16:02:11 <NeddySeagoon>	tampakrap, why would Foundation funding make a difference to this conference and what will Gentoo the distro, get out of the investment ? 
Mar 18 16:02:38 <tampakrap>	workshops, people hacking together, talks, partys
Mar 18 16:02:38 <rich0>	I think we just need to be careful - the foundation hasn't paid for so much as a soda in the past, so we probably will end up being conservative here.
Mar 18 16:02:50 <tampakrap>	and it would be good to fund the tickets of the US people mostly
Mar 18 16:03:20 *	Arfrever (~Arfrever@apache/committer/Arfrever) has joined #gentoo-trustees
Mar 18 16:03:21 <robbat2>	200 * $1200 is out of our budget
Mar 18 16:03:24 <robbat2>	by a long way
Mar 18 16:03:26 <tampakrap>	and btw, I will be in the organizing comitee of the opensuse conf (since I'm working in SUSE) and will get more experience as well
Mar 18 16:03:31 <tampakrap>	and connections
Mar 18 16:03:37 <rich0>	Uh, take a look at: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/devmap.xml
Mar 18 16:03:40 <NeddySeagoon>	tampakrap, thats not answering the question.  Why would US people go to the conference and not to a US one ?
Mar 18 16:04:16 <tampakrap>	I'm talking about an official gentoo conference, not a random conf with gentoo presence
Mar 18 16:04:37 <dabbott>	for that kind of money I would rather support hardware | bandwidth
Mar 18 16:04:38 <robbat2>	rephrasing the question: why not hold an US Gentoo conf, and an EU Gentoo conf?
Mar 18 16:05:18 <NeddySeagoon>	tampakrap, the foundation annual income varies between $5k and $10k ... consider the cost of your proposal in relation to that
Mar 18 16:05:26 <tampakrap>	well, that's not something I can answer, I live in Prague like the city, is close to germany (where many gentoo devs are) and is a good place for such an event
Mar 18 16:05:37 <tampakrap>	that's good to know
Mar 18 16:06:09 <rich0>	Yup - I think we need to be very targeted in how we spend.  
Mar 18 16:06:41 <rich0>	And legally we can't do something like ask every US dev to kick in $1k so that we can pay for a $1k ticket for them.  That definitely would raise IRS eyebrows.
Mar 18 16:06:43 <tampakrap>	imho, paying an ammount for the US people's tickets would make sense, nothing more
Mar 18 16:07:07 <rich0>	Paying for 2 US developers to attend would be 20% of our annual budget.
Mar 18 16:07:50 <rich0>	Gentoo is a pretty nationally-diverse distro, which is a strength, but it makes it hard to get everybody in one room.
Mar 18 16:08:06 <tampakrap>	same for every large foss project I believe
Mar 18 16:08:08 <rich0>	Even getting East-coast and West-coast US developers together is very difficult.
Mar 18 16:08:45 <dabbott>	paying for a booth, t-shirts, stickers, dvds, even a room for the dev's manning the booth, thats more my speed
Mar 18 16:08:51 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, thats the same here and the coasts are only 50 miles apart :)
Mar 18 16:08:51 <rich0>	I can't imagine too many pay for substantial numbers of developers to travel internationally, unless they're nearly employees in terms of time commitment and they have much stronger funding.
Mar 18 16:09:10 <rich0>	dabbott, ++
Mar 18 16:09:34 <NeddySeagoon>	dabbott, ++
Mar 18 16:09:46 <rich0>	It is a wonderful idea and I'd love to see it happen, but a lot needs to change to make this more than targetted spending on a few specific items.
Mar 18 16:11:00 <rich0>	In any case, tampakrap, please do think about what can be done and feel free to send us either informal emails or proposals as makes sense.
Mar 18 16:11:16 <tampakrap>	anyway, me and |miska| will talk to the locals that will organize the czech event next year, and I'll have some proposal in 40 days approx
Mar 18 16:11:40 <tampakrap>	I will just need the foundation's support in that, else I don't see a point in doing it
Mar 18 16:11:44 <rich0>	Just keep in mind that we're not likely to spend more than $1-2k, and it would have to be really high impact to justify the high end of that (impact in terms of furthering the distro).
Mar 18 16:12:39 <tampakrap>	sure, thanks for the info, it is valuable
Mar 18 16:12:51 <rich0>	No problem at all, and good luck with it regardless!
Mar 18 16:13:02 <tampakrap>	good luck to us all :D
Mar 18 16:13:14 <NeddySeagoon>	tampakrap, we have a banner in Europe somewhere and maybe a stand too
Mar 18 16:13:28 <rich0>	Ok, anything else from open floor?  And tampakrap, thanks for breaking our usual silence.  :)
Mar 18 16:13:49 <tampakrap>	:D
Mar 18 16:14:09 <robbat2>	minor update on infra bits from me
Mar 18 16:14:23 <rich0>	^^ go ahead
Mar 18 16:14:34 <robbat2>	the new Dells are mostly ready, antarus is just having a minor fight with Dell to buy the missing raid cards for the VM hosting instances
Mar 18 16:17:08 <robbat2>	</fin>
Mar 18 16:17:25 <rich0>	Ok, anything else?
Mar 18 16:17:29 <dabbott>	I have a dvd duplicator I want to donate to the foundation, it works fine, it will produce 5 4GB LiveDVD's in about 15 min.
Mar 18 16:17:42 <robbat2>	ooh, yes please for the conferences
Mar 18 16:17:59 <rich0>	dabbott, would it make sense for you to just hold onto it?
Mar 18 16:18:14 <rich0>	Assuming you have the time to run off the odd batch given sufficient notice?
Mar 18 16:18:20 <dabbott>	yes just so you know I can ship when needed
Mar 18 16:18:28 <robbat2>	and/or until we know where the next conference is
Mar 18 16:18:40 <rich0>	might not hurt to create some kind of foundation assets page to keep track of that sort of thing.
Mar 18 16:18:42 <dabbott>	either or is fine
Mar 18 16:18:56 <rich0>	Up to you whether you want to actually donate it, or offer to run off disks on it as your own property.
Mar 18 16:19:22 <dabbott>	I want to donate it now and can do disks whenever
Mar 18 16:19:39 <rich0>	shipping might make sense, although we should consider how many disks we can just print for the cost of shipping it in a manner unlikely to break it.
Mar 18 16:19:51 <NeddySeagoon>	dabbott, if you donate it, the foundation would fund spare parts for maintainence.
Mar 18 16:20:01 <robbat2>	we'd fund the blanks anyway
Mar 18 16:20:31 <NeddySeagoon>	you can ship an alful lot of DVDs for the price of shipping a duplicator
Mar 18 16:20:39 <dabbott>	true
Mar 18 16:20:55 <rich0>	dabbott, thanks for your offer - let's figure out what makes the most sense and go with it.  The duplicator has to occupy space somewhere so no reason it can't be your home.
Mar 18 16:21:19 <NeddySeagoon>	dabbott, Ill ask dabbott to write and thank you for your generous donation :)
Mar 18 16:21:33 <dabbott>	heh
Mar 18 16:21:54 <rich0>	Anything else?  Looks like open floor is the new new business.  :)
Mar 18 16:22:19 <NeddySeagoon>	I don't have anything
Mar 18 16:22:51 <rich0>	Ok, then let's go ahead and break.  Motion to adjourn.
Mar 18 16:23:01 <NeddySeagoon>	seconded
Mar 18 16:23:22 *	rich0 bangs gavel...