path: root/2013/meeting-06-23.log

Jun 23 15:07:15 <rich0>	Roll Call: robbat2, dabbott, rich0 present for now
Jun 23 15:07:22 <dabbott>	present
Jun 23 15:07:43 <robbat2>	wait 2 mins for them?
Jun 23 15:07:57 <rich0>	Well, NeddySeagoon asked to get started without him.
Jun 23 15:08:03 <rich0>	Haven't heard from quantumsummers
Jun 23 15:08:58 <rich0>	I don't have anything exciting to report on copyright policies.  Have an 80% draft that just needs a bit more cleanup, and of course implementation.
Jun 23 15:09:06 <rich0>	Anything we should discuss there?
Jun 23 15:09:21 <dabbott>	I'm logging and will post the logs
Jun 23 15:09:29 <rich0>	Thanks.
Jun 23 15:09:35 <robbat2>	sending that draft out to the nfp list might be worthwhile (incl the TODO list) if it's enough changes
Jun 23 15:09:46 <robbat2>	in the bugs we need quantumsummers for many of them
Jun 23 15:10:00 <rich0>	Let me take a quick look, but I agree - might be worth at least getting it out for comment.
Jun 23 15:10:21 <robbat2>	bug 473258, the chinese CD seller, motion for approving them?
Jun 23 15:11:31 <dabbott>	yes
Jun 23 15:11:34 <rich0>	Seems reasonable
Jun 23 15:11:55 <rich0>	robbat2: you fine with that?
Jun 23 15:12:31 <rich0>	Do we normally expect a portion of the sales, and if so, how much should we ask for?
Jun 23 15:12:39 <rich0>	I think we do.
Jun 23 15:12:41 <robbat2>	his price is so low
Jun 23 15:13:05 <robbat2>	i think stipulate if he raises his prices maybe we ask for a donation
Jun 23 15:13:16 <robbat2>	but it's $0.70USD/ea he's selling them for
Jun 23 15:13:32 <rich0>	Agreed - at that price I can't see asking him for a share.
Jun 23 15:14:05 <rich0>	Maybe tell him as long as the price is under 10 rmb he's fine, above that he should talk to us?
Jun 23 15:14:22 <rich0>	Or make it 50?
Jun 23 15:14:33 <rich0>	That's still < $10
Jun 23 15:14:53 <robbat2>	50 seems reasonable
Jun 23 15:14:58 <robbat2>	dabbott, your take on it?
Jun 23 15:15:15 <robbat2>	the debian ones are 50RMB
Jun 23 15:15:19 <dabbott>	we have been working on good faith with the other vendors quantumsummers would know if any donate
Jun 23 15:16:25 <dabbott>	i can send them an email and add them to the vendor page
Jun 23 15:16:25 <rich0>	I'm fine with taking it offline if we feel his input is essential.
Jun 23 15:16:33 <rich0>	Works for me.
Jun 23 15:16:40 *	NeddySeagoon arrives and reads the backlog ...
Jun 23 15:17:00 <rich0>	NeddySeagoon: basically just jumping around taking items opportunistically.
Jun 23 15:18:58 <dabbott>	brb
Jun 23 15:19:02 <NeddySeagoon>	Will the chairman please contine
Jun 23 15:19:16 <rich0>	Do we have one?
Jun 23 15:19:33 <NeddySeagoon>	Well, whoever was leading the meeting ...
Jun 23 15:19:46 <robbat2>	none of us
Jun 23 15:19:54 <NeddySeagoon>	hehe
Jun 23 15:19:54 <rich0>	I think the reason we haven't really concluded a single item in 15min is that we're taking turns picking topics.
Jun 23 15:20:13 <rich0>	We did get roll call and logs.
Jun 23 15:20:19 <robbat2>	and we're done on that vendor
Jun 23 15:20:27 <rich0>	What was the conclusion?
Jun 23 15:20:38 <robbat2>	in favour, as long as it's under 50RMB
Jun 23 15:20:41 <robbat2>	without any donation
Jun 23 15:20:44 <rich0>	Ok, I think that is 3 of us.
Jun 23 15:20:56 <robbat2>	if goes 50RMB, we would like to see some donation
Jun 23 15:20:57 <NeddySeagoon>	I can see there is a metastructure change in the wind.  It would be good to get the copyright stuff put to bead before that happens
Jun 23 15:21:07 <rich0>	And I didn't hear any concerns with copyright policy beyond getting the policy out on -nfp.
Jun 23 15:21:43 <rich0>	NeddySeagoon: what metastructure change?  I've really only seen some random comments on IRC and an email thread with a few posts, but nothing serious that looks like a change.
Jun 23 15:22:43 <NeddySeagoon>	I have no idea what 50RMB buys is China its ok saying its <$10 but if it feeds a family for a month, 50RMB is a lot
Jun 23 15:22:50 <rich0>	Maybe table that to the end?  I'd like to at least hit the agenda before I have to leave.
Jun 23 15:23:23 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, there have been some discussions that GLEP39 is no longer relevant and may need some work
Jun 23 15:23:35 <quantumsummers>	hello, sorry I'm late
Jun 23 15:23:39 <rich0>	Yes, I saw those.  I've yet to see a serious proposal though.
Jun 23 15:23:47 *	quantumsummers reads backlog
Jun 23 15:24:11 <NeddySeagoon>	From the agenda ... Trustee Election
Jun 23 15:24:17 <rich0>	Thanks!
Jun 23 15:24:22 <robbat2>	NeddySeagoon, http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=China <-- cost of living 
Jun 23 15:24:26 <NeddySeagoon>	Its off and running, I've seen some nominations
Jun 23 15:24:28 <rich0>	I don't think anything is outstanding on that.
Jun 23 15:25:35 <rich0>	Anything to discuss?  Or we just note and move on?
Jun 23 15:25:37 <NeddySeagoon>	robbat2, so it well less than a beer.  Thats nominal to me
Jun 23 15:25:53 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, note and move on
Jun 23 15:26:12 <NeddySeagoon>	quantumsummers, your stuff ...
Jun 23 15:26:36 <quantumsummers>	ok
Jun 23 15:26:48 <quantumsummers>	just tidying up for the end of the fiscal year
Jun 23 15:27:03 <quantumsummers>	got checks (cheques) I am waiting to clear
Jun 23 15:27:09 <quantumsummers>	mainly to OSUOSL
Jun 23 15:27:10 <NeddySeagoon>	Thats end of June.
Jun 23 15:27:21 <quantumsummers>	correct, so in 1 week
Jun 23 15:27:28 <rich0>	quantumsummers: we do have that git repo - I don't think we've put any financies in it yet.
Jun 23 15:27:28 <NeddySeagoon>	Are we going to get a CPA invoice this year ?
Jun 23 15:27:33 <quantumsummers>	yes
Jun 23 15:27:35 <quantumsummers>	:)
Jun 23 15:28:02 <quantumsummers>	dumping data to them on July 1st, they will give a quote, though I expect $875
Jun 23 15:28:04 <NeddySeagoon>	quantumsummers, yes to which question ?
Jun 23 15:28:05 <robbat2>	there were two donaters recently that wanted non-paypal means for bigger donations, did they get back to you?
Jun 23 15:28:14 <quantumsummers>	robbat2: not yet.
Jun 23 15:28:42 <quantumsummers>	I will poke again, basically I think if they want to mail a payment I can handle that. Otherwise, I think we should not do anything
Jun 23 15:28:50 <quantumsummers>	mainly for teh following reasons
Jun 23 15:28:58 <quantumsummers>	1) credit card payments are costly to setup
Jun 23 15:29:18 <quantumsummers>	2) wire transfers involves giving out our banking info to potentially unknown people
Jun 23 15:29:35 <quantumsummers>	I could setup a dedicated account for #2 though
Jun 23 15:29:43 <quantumsummers>	not sure if it is worth the trouble
Jun 23 15:29:59 <rich0>	So we make the policy paypal or checks?
Jun 23 15:30:05 <rich0>	Seems reasonable to me...
Jun 23 15:30:11 <robbat2>	they could probably mail you bank drafts as well
Jun 23 15:30:12 <dabbott>	+1
Jun 23 15:30:19 <NeddySeagoon>	What about currency conversions costs of random cheques?  or do you want a USD money order ?
Jun 23 15:30:20 <robbat2>	but that's not very different than checks
Jun 23 15:30:25 <quantumsummers>	a bank draft would be better
Jun 23 15:30:41 <quantumsummers>	USD is fine, I doubt Cap1 will have trouble with conversion
Jun 23 15:30:53 <quantumsummers>	bank draft means there is no chance of a bounced check
Jun 23 15:30:54 <NeddySeagoon>	ok
Jun 23 15:31:01 <quantumsummers>	which would cost us the fee
Jun 23 15:31:13 <rich0>	Why not just put on the page a list of options in preferred order?
Jun 23 15:31:20 <quantumsummers>	seems fine to me
Jun 23 15:31:32 <rich0>	If somebody gives us $100 and we end up with only $50 that's still $50 more than we'd have if we told them to go away.
Jun 23 15:31:40 <quantumsummers>	I can put that together.
Jun 23 15:31:44 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, true
Jun 23 15:31:45 <quantumsummers>	robbat2: where would you like that to live?
Jun 23 15:31:58 <rich0>	Is there already a page for that?
Jun 23 15:32:12 <robbat2>	we can put together a foundation page for it
Jun 23 15:32:48 <rich0>	Makes sense - just still a small link under the existing donate button, or redirect to that page with paypal as just one option.
Jun 23 15:32:56 <NeddySeagoon>	I needs a link from the Donate, beside PayPal
Jun 23 15:33:06 <quantumsummers>	yep
Jun 23 15:33:24 <quantumsummers>	so, page in foundation space, and a link under the sidebar
Jun 23 15:33:36 <quantumsummers>	I mean donate button on the sidebar
Jun 23 15:33:47 <dabbott>	is the foundation pages going to the wiki
Jun 23 15:33:48 <robbat2>	i'd say put together a more comprensive page
Jun 23 15:33:49 <NeddySeagoon>	sounds good
Jun 23 15:33:57 <robbat2>	and move the paypal button to that page too
Jun 23 15:34:10 <quantumsummers>	robbat2: I like that idea.
Jun 23 15:34:11 <robbat2>	one related bit I saw, is that another org I know got a big uptick on paypal
Jun 23 15:34:21 <robbat2>	when they made it have options for automatic monthly donations
Jun 23 15:34:23 <rich0>	makes sense
Jun 23 15:34:32 <quantumsummers>	in fact, I can have the CPA draft up some narrative re: legal aspects for a disclaimer, etc
Jun 23 15:34:52 <robbat2>	+1
Jun 23 15:34:54 <NeddySeagoon>	sounds like that would be good
Jun 23 15:35:04 <quantumsummers>	robbat2: do you know how to set that up? (the auto monthly deal?)
Jun 23 15:35:23 <quantumsummers>	I can look into it too
Jun 23 15:35:31 <robbat2>	yes I can help with that
Jun 23 15:35:36 <robbat2>	in july
Jun 23 15:35:42 <quantumsummers>	ok thanks
Jun 23 15:36:48 <NeddySeagoon>	Any update on 501(c)(3) registration status
Jun 23 15:37:21 <quantumsummers>	nothing on that. we'll see something soon from the CPA
Jun 23 15:37:58 <NeddySeagoon>	ok
Jun 23 15:38:37 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, looks like we are up to date on the activity tracker.  Any comments ?
Jun 23 15:40:17 <rich0>	nope - not until after the AGM
Jun 23 15:40:32 <NeddySeagoon>	Lets move onto bugs ...
Jun 23 15:41:38 <NeddySeagoon>	Bug 472574 - Developers from US-embargoed countries.  quantumsummers did you ask for a legal opinion ?
Jun 23 15:42:24 <quantumsummers>	lets see, I know I wrote an email
Jun 23 15:43:30 <NeddySeagoon>	quantumsummers, if you have a response, update the bug please.  No need to do it right now
Jun 23 15:43:33 <quantumsummers>	so, I have not heard back, but it has not been long since I sent it. I am a bit behind in my queue
Jun 23 15:43:56 <NeddySeagoon>	np  Its the long arm of the law ...
Jun 23 15:44:00 <quantumsummers>	sorry, the newborn (6 weeks tomorrow) is kicking my ass this time
Jun 23 15:44:16 <quantumsummers>	funny how that works
Jun 23 15:44:24 <quantumsummers>	she is not a good sleeper yet
Jun 23 15:44:32 <quantumsummers>	so my apologies if I am missing things
Jun 23 15:44:45 <NeddySeagoon>	I skipped the very young :)
Jun 23 15:45:08 <NeddySeagoon>	Bug 472656 can that be closed ?
Jun 23 15:45:15 <quantumsummers>	they provide quite the experience
Jun 23 15:45:44 <robbat2>	did we do something for it
Jun 23 15:45:45 <quantumsummers>	did we do anything for that?
Jun 23 15:45:46 <dabbott>	NeddySeagoon: yes it can
Jun 23 15:45:51 <rich0>	I think at this point it is too late to do anything on that one.
Jun 23 15:46:19 <quantumsummers>	hmm.
Jun 23 15:47:38 <NeddySeagoon>	quantumsummers, ?
Jun 23 15:47:57 <quantumsummers>	oh nothing, just reflecting. 
Jun 23 15:48:35 <NeddySeagoon>	Bug 473214 was discussed earlier
Jun 23 15:48:36 <willikins>	NeddySeagoon: https://bugs.gentoo.org/473214 "Non-paypal contribution method"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; rich0:trustees
Jun 23 15:49:15 <NeddySeagoon>	as was bug 473258
Jun 23 15:50:13 <NeddySeagoon>	This brings us to Membership Applications  - Jack Morgan
Jun 23 15:50:23 <rich0>	aye
Jun 23 15:50:28 <NeddySeagoon>	All those in favour ...
Jun 23 15:50:28 <dabbott>	yes
Jun 23 15:50:30 <robbat2>	aye
Jun 23 15:50:30 <NeddySeagoon>	Aye
Jun 23 15:50:42 <NeddySeagoon>	I'll write the email ...
Jun 23 15:50:43 <quantumsummers>	aye
Jun 23 15:51:00 <NeddySeagoon>	Clean Up
Jun 23 15:51:11 <NeddySeagoon>	Date of Next Meeting - 21 Jul 2013 19:00 UTC
Jun 23 15:51:20 <dabbott>	for bug 473258 i can send them an email and add them to the vendor page
Jun 23 15:51:29 <NeddySeagoon>	dabbott, thanks
Jun 23 15:51:34 <dabbott>	meeting date is fine here
Jun 23 15:52:07 <robbat2>	ditto good for me
Jun 23 15:52:14 <NeddySeagoon>	quantumsummers, rich0 ?
Jun 23 15:52:21 <quantumsummers>	fine here
Jun 23 15:52:32 <NeddySeagoon>	Any other business ...
Jun 23 15:52:39 <rich0>	wfm
Jun 23 15:52:44 <rich0>	I have an AOB...
Jun 23 15:52:53 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, you have the floor
Jun 23 15:53:26 <rich0>	We don't need to settle this immediately, but we might give thought to some way to improve meeting pace in the future.  I'm not sure if audio makes sense, or some other approach.  It just seems like we probably kill 30+min idling during meetings.
Jun 23 15:53:43 <rich0>	Some of that is probably irc lag.
Jun 23 15:54:00 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, Audio is ok if we have a record, or a transcript
Jun 23 15:54:10 <robbat2>	voice doesn't help that much in my experience
Jun 23 15:54:12 <rich0>	I don't think we need a word-for-word.
Jun 23 15:54:50 <rich0>	Honestly, irc is more convenient, but it just seems like it takes a lot of time to basically resolve 3-4 bugs.
Jun 23 15:55:14 <NeddySeagoon>	I'm with robbat2.  Its quite a chore enforcing meeting disipline on a  5 way audio link
Jun 23 15:55:23 <rich0>	Most of which didn't really involve much substance.
Jun 23 15:55:49 <dabbott>	We just need to be more prepared, check the bugs ahead of time on the ml etc
Jun 23 15:56:06 <robbat2>	i have a regular 6-way audio call every week, even with a dedicated project manager, we get less done than this IRC meeting
Jun 23 15:56:07 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, we do not need word for word - we need minutes
Jun 23 15:56:07 <quantumsummers>	in terms of reducing meeting time, we could  just state that some potion should be handled via bugz and/or email
Jun 23 15:56:32 <quantumsummers>	then only have important votes, AoB and Open Floor on IRC
Jun 23 15:56:37 <dabbott>	important bugs added to the agenda
Jun 23 15:56:42 <quantumsummers>	however, I am mostly for the status quo
Jun 23 15:57:11 <NeddySeagoon>	If we do more in email, we lose some of the transparency
Jun 23 15:57:29 <NeddySeagoon>	On balance, I prefer irc
Jun 23 15:57:30 <rich0>	Just frustrating - I basically postponed doing anything this afternoon to decide to approve a vendor, accept a member, and put more donation options on the website.
Jun 23 15:57:53 <robbat2>	ok, how do we make IRC itself go faster?
Jun 23 15:58:11 <robbat2>	the first 15 minutes were the worst, none of us stepped up as chairman
Jun 23 15:58:22 <quantumsummers>	sorry I was late
Jun 23 15:58:26 <rich0>	Yup - that is a good lesson-learned.
Jun 23 15:58:29 <NeddySeagoon>	members and vendors can be prepped in email and voted in public
Jun 23 15:58:38 <rich0>	How about we always start on time, pick a chair from whoever is here?
Jun 23 15:59:00 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, yep - thats a plan
Jun 23 15:59:08 <dabbott>	rich0: +1
Jun 23 15:59:10 <robbat2>	set a target of 30 minutes end-to-end
Jun 23 16:00:20 <NeddySeagoon>	Hmm, I try to keep under an hour ... how about 50 min ... then when we keep doing that 40 min ...
Jun 23 16:00:23 <rich0>	I'm fine with taking time for substance - just seems like we drag quite a bit - minutes between lines.
Jun 23 16:01:06 <NeddySeagoon>	I try to prempt the end of agenda items but I don't always get it right
Jun 23 16:01:30 <rich0>	Yeah, some is IRC lag.  Not sure if we can try to pick the same server or something?
Jun 23 16:01:47 <robbat2>	everybody run /ping
Jun 23 16:01:49 <robbat2>	and paste your output
Jun 23 16:01:57 <robbat2>	* Ping reply from calvino.freenode.net: 0.13 second(s)
Jun 23 16:02:21 <NeddySeagoon>	Ping reply from morgan.freenode.net: 0.10 second(s)
Jun 23 16:02:24 <dabbott>	Ping reply from adams.freenode.net: 0.18 second(s)
Jun 23 16:02:35 <rich0>	Odd, I'm not getting a response.  Might be a quassel thing.
Jun 23 16:02:47 <robbat2>	rich0, look in the server tab
Jun 23 16:03:00 <NeddySeagoon>	should we move to a smaller network ?
Jun 23 16:03:12 <rich0>	Ah, no response there, but it has an indication in the topic line of 53ms
Jun 23 16:03:26 <robbat2>	yeah we need to halve the /ping response
Jun 23 16:03:30 <robbat2>	to get one-way
Jun 23 16:03:36 <quantumsummers>	88ms here
Jun 23 16:03:37 <rich0>	on barjavel
Jun 23 16:03:57 <robbat2>	ok, so IRC lag accounts at most 200ms
Jun 23 16:03:59 <rich0>	The issue is that the nodes could have 10s of latency between them for all we know.
Jun 23 16:04:08 <rich0>	The ping is just to the server.
Jun 23 16:04:12 <rich0>	Not to every server on the network.
Jun 23 16:04:27 <dabbott>	the lag on my end is pbkac
Jun 23 16:04:45 <NeddySeagoon>	should we join the same server for meetings ?
Jun 23 16:05:00 <robbat2>	i think the human factor is probably larger
Jun 23 16:05:02 <rich0>	I think that is a vicious cycle - we notice nothing in IRC, so we multitask, then everybody else sees nothing in IRC, so they multitask.
Jun 23 16:05:24 <rich0>	And you don't see all the neads nodding in the room...
Jun 23 16:05:33 <NeddySeagoon>	rich0, yep
Jun 23 16:05:47 <robbat2>	how to avoid that then?
Jun 23 16:06:07 <rich0>	Probably nazi chairing...
Jun 23 16:06:07 <quantumsummers>	hey folks, I have to run. sorry :-( family visit
Jun 23 16:06:20 <NeddySeagoon>	quantumsummers, bye for now
Jun 23 16:06:21 <quantumsummers>	I will agree to whatever though, re: meeting stuff
Jun 23 16:06:27 <quantumsummers>	just let me know what you decide
Jun 23 16:06:28 <rich0>	adios
Jun 23 16:06:30 <dabbott>	quantumsummers: send me that app and latest db please :)
Jun 23 16:06:41 <robbat2>	we should wrap this, it's going on too long anyway
Jun 23 16:06:41 <rich0>	So, maybe we take this offline - we didn't do open floor yet.
Jun 23 16:06:47 <robbat2>	yes offline
Jun 23 16:07:05 <NeddySeagoon>	Shall we all use adams.freenode.net for the next meeting  ?
Jun 23 16:07:15 <rich0>	I gotta run soon myself.
Jun 23 16:07:28 <NeddySeagoon>	any more other business
Jun 23 16:07:32 <dabbott>	NeddySeagoon: I don't think it will make much difference tbh
Jun 23 16:08:09 <NeddySeagoon>	we have agreed a who does what ...
Jun 23 16:08:17 <dabbott>	NeddySeagoon: I will post the log and update the minutes
Jun 23 16:08:18 <NeddySeagoon>	so Open floor ...
Jun 23 16:09:06 <dabbott>	Are the foundation pages going to the wiki?
Jun 23 16:09:27 <dabbott>	are just project pages?
Jun 23 16:09:34 <NeddySeagoon>	dabbott, I don't know but I'm not keen
Jun 23 16:10:00 <dabbott>	I am fine where we are now tbh
Jun 23 16:10:04 <NeddySeagoon>	the Foundation pages are our legal entity stuff
Jun 23 16:10:14 <rich0>	NeddySeagoon: ++
Jun 23 16:10:26 <robbat2>	i think long-term they will probably end up moving but being locked to foundation
Jun 23 16:10:27 <NeddySeagoon>	I'm not happy for that to be on a Wiki
Jun 23 16:11:14 *	NeddySeagoon bangs the gavel to close the meeting