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Oct 16 15:06:10 *	prometheanfire bangs the virtual gavel, the meeting for the 16th of October 2016 is open
Oct 16 15:06:24 <prometheanfire>	Roll call
Oct 16 15:06:28 <dabbott>	here
Oct 16 15:06:35 <antarus>	here
Oct 16 15:07:17 <prometheanfire>	robbat2, SwifT?
Oct 16 15:07:29 <dabbott>	SwifT: will not make it today, work stuff
Oct 16 15:07:59 <prometheanfire>	k, robbat2?
Oct 16 15:09:11 <prometheanfire>	gonna give one more minute then move on, still have a minimal quorum with just us
Oct 16 15:09:13 <antarus>	text him?
Oct 16 15:10:01 <prometheanfire>	don't have is number
Oct 16 15:10:26 <antarus>	you should in your email
Oct 16 15:10:27 <antarus>	I'll send him one
Oct 16 15:10:31 <antarus>	but we can begin w/p
Oct 16 15:10:33 <antarus>	er w/o
Oct 16 15:11:23 <prometheanfire>	Old Business - Activity Tracker
Oct 16 15:11:52 <prometheanfire>	there's been some updates just to bring it up to date, but no actions have been taken that I know of
Oct 16 15:12:08 <antarus>	(sms sent)
Oct 16 15:12:20 <prometheanfire>	IRS Status Report - will wait for robbat2 
Oct 16 15:12:24 <antarus>	Can we put a link to the tracker in the /topic?
Oct 16 15:12:31 <antarus>	I always forget where it is
Oct 16 15:12:43 <antarus>	or is in the agenda
Oct 16 15:12:54 <dabbott>	its in the agenda
Oct 16 15:12:57 <antarus>	ahh it is, excellent
Oct 16 15:12:59 <prometheanfire>	:D
Oct 16 15:13:04 <antarus>	thanks dabbott ;)
Oct 16 15:13:23 <dabbott>	you are welcome :)
Oct 16 15:13:30 <prometheanfire>	while we wait we can discuss the presidency or move to induct new members
Oct 16 15:13:39 <prometheanfire>	might be better to do the later first while we wait
Oct 16 15:13:55 <dabbott>	I don't see anything major in the tracker
Oct 16 15:13:56 <antarus>	the latter seems the best course of action
Oct 16 15:14:34 <prometheanfire>	Membership Applications - Mauricio Lima Pilla (pilla)
Oct 16 15:14:39 <prometheanfire>	Aye
Oct 16 15:14:49 <dabbott>	yes
Oct 16 15:15:36 <antarus>	aye
Oct 16 15:16:10 <prometheanfire>	carried with min of 3
Oct 16 15:16:19 <dabbott>	I will send the email and update the members list
Oct 16 15:16:28 <prometheanfire>	thanks
Oct 16 15:17:34 <prometheanfire>	only update that I've noticed with swift's stuff (privacy policy and artwork) is a small review of the artwork that's been done
Oct 16 15:18:00 <prometheanfire>	moving on from that, my stuff
Oct 16 15:18:13 <prometheanfire>	prometheanfire - D&O insurance Bug 592198
Oct 16 15:18:15 <willikins>	https://bugs.gentoo.org/592198 "D&O insurance"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; prometheanfire:trustees
Oct 16 15:18:58 <prometheanfire>	It took a while but I found the provider used by the PSF, I have not asked for info / quotes yet though but will by the next meeting
Oct 16 15:20:53 <antarus>	ok, my general opinion is we should get some pending price and terms
Oct 16 15:21:00 <antarus>	so no action required until we get price and terms? :)
Oct 16 15:21:05 <prometheanfire>	correct
Oct 16 15:21:15 <antarus>	sgtm
Oct 16 15:21:25 <prometheanfire>	it was my intention to get a quote / terms and vote on it in the next meeting
Oct 16 15:21:39 <antarus>	seems reasonable
Oct 16 15:21:44 <dabbott>	I can go either way for $500 I would say ok if the others want it, if it gets costly, no
Oct 16 15:22:05 <prometheanfire>	dabbott: I think I feel about the same
Oct 16 15:22:11 <dabbott>	thanks for the research prometheanfire 
Oct 16 15:22:25 <prometheanfire>	ya, it's slow going, totally new area for me
Oct 16 15:22:42 <prometheanfire>	next?
Oct 16 15:23:02 *	prometheanfire prepares to open the floodgates
Oct 16 15:23:05 <antarus>	swift is not here, robin is not here, you want to talk about metastructure or president?: )
Oct 16 15:23:14 <prometheanfire>	meta first
Oct 16 15:23:44 <prometheanfire>	president I hope to be simpler, but as we are only discussing metastructure I think it's better to do that now then make a decision now
Oct 16 15:23:57 <prometheanfire>	prometheanfire -      Robbat2's email (moving comrel, infra and pr under foundation)
Oct 16 15:24:15 <prometheanfire>	I don't think we should talk about moving projects immediately
Oct 16 15:24:23 <prometheanfire>	rich0: ping
Oct 16 15:24:42 <dabbott>	we have a hard time getting people involved with a simple set-up more complex, who is going to oversee it, I like less structure not more imho
Oct 16 15:24:50 <antarus>	I'm trying to understand approximately what this proposal is trying to accomplish
Oct 16 15:25:24 <antarus>	for reference: https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/d679e40f31dc2341b534834540d504b1
Oct 16 15:26:14 <antarus>	dabbott: I think its tricky because the existing groups have annoying rules for joining already
Oct 16 15:26:18 <antarus>	but they are just poorly documented
Oct 16 15:26:26 <antarus>	infra for example, has always had "weird" rules
Oct 16 15:26:33 <prometheanfire>	I think that changing gentoo to a single voting body would be good, for simplicity.  the complexity and drama introduced by people no liking the idea of the foundation controlling gentoo would be reduced
Oct 16 15:26:42 <antarus>	and mostly involves the infra lead  having met you and vetting you personally
Oct 16 15:26:45 <antarus>	which is not super great
Oct 16 15:26:53 <prometheanfire>	it'd allow us to move more swiftly to make change if we wanted
Oct 16 15:27:50 <antarus>	so I think I want to tackle that separately
Oct 16 15:27:58 <prometheanfire>	the main issue I see with the proposal as it stands is forced membership in the foundation (perhaps a default true thing could be used instead)
Oct 16 15:28:08 <prometheanfire>	antarus: tackle the membership docs/issues?
Oct 16 15:28:09 <antarus>	I generally agree that the means we use to control foundation membership is poor
Oct 16 15:28:35 <antarus>	1) people never leave teh foundation 2) some people never join because they find no value in it
Oct 16 15:28:55 <prometheanfire>	I personally think foundation membership should need two things, 'contribute to gentoo' and 'agree to the coc'
Oct 16 15:28:55 <antarus>	(plus a bunch of other reasons, but its less clear we can combat those with simple membership controls)
Oct 16 15:29:31 <prometheanfire>	1 is fixed by tying foundation membership to staff membership
Oct 16 15:29:35 <antarus>	I think we could easily pass some bylaws to fix 1 (and some were sent out already)
Oct 16 15:29:57 <prometheanfire>	if staff is retired then foundation membership is revoked
Oct 16 15:30:02 <antarus>	2 is less clear
Oct 16 15:30:11 <prometheanfire>	as far as people not finding value, ya, that's hard
Oct 16 15:30:15 <antarus>	I don't necessarily want to force people to join the foundation
Oct 16 15:30:25 <antarus>	although it may be necessary for some positions; I'm somewhat open to that idea
Oct 16 15:30:34 <antarus>	(I feel like there is some balance)
Oct 16 15:30:54 <prometheanfire>	I personally think default to joining is fine, with an opt-out
Oct 16 15:30:55 <antarus>	I need more informatoin, specifically from conscienscous objectors who for some reason do not wish to join the foundation ever
Oct 16 15:31:09 <prometheanfire>	no opt-out is hard because members are forced to vote
Oct 16 15:31:12 <antarus>	and so if we forbade them from ever being in say..comrel...
Oct 16 15:31:17 <antarus>	what would that do to the project
Oct 16 15:32:38 <prometheanfire>	ya, I think the discussion should continue, hopefully by next meeting we'll have something actionable
Oct 16 15:32:52 <prometheanfire>	I just wanted to bring it up as something to be noticed
Oct 16 15:32:55 <antarus>	I think the data typically shows that fewer people opt-anything
Oct 16 15:33:01 <antarus>	so opt-in would garner more membership
Oct 16 15:33:07 <antarus>	er out* sorry
Oct 16 15:33:11 <prometheanfire>	right
Oct 16 15:33:29 <antarus>	I think the question i pose is whether we want inactive members
Oct 16 15:33:32 <dabbott>	I would like to see how other distros do it, we may not need to reenvent just copy
Oct 16 15:33:34 <prometheanfire>	the suggestion I like most was 'opt-out with auto opt-out when missing N-votes'
Oct 16 15:33:56 <antarus>	if people 'forget' to opt-out, but never contribute to foundation business
Oct 16 15:34:02 <antarus>	do we actually want them as members?
Oct 16 15:34:06 *	ChanServ gives voice to Bircoph
Oct 16 15:34:14 <prometheanfire>	I have a friend close with fedora I may be able to ask
Oct 16 15:34:18 <antarus>	to me this comes back to the membership being useful in some way
Oct 16 15:34:28 <prometheanfire>	antarus: well, like I said, 'opt-out with auto opt-out when missing N-votes'
Oct 16 15:34:29 <antarus>	which is an argument for moving more stuff under the foundation
Oct 16 15:34:40 <antarus>	prometheanfire: yeah I don't understand what that means
Oct 16 15:34:43 <antarus>	like during voting...?
Oct 16 15:34:45 <prometheanfire>	true, that's an eventual goal
Oct 16 15:35:01 <antarus>	or you mean they automatically lose membership after missing votes?
Oct 16 15:35:03 <prometheanfire>	auto opt-out if you miss an election
Oct 16 15:35:06 <antarus>	ahh
Oct 16 15:35:11 <prometheanfire>	or two
Oct 16 15:35:18 <antarus>	I thought there was some skepticism that that method was effective
Oct 16 15:35:19 <prometheanfire>	as the current rules state
Oct 16 15:35:33 <prometheanfire>	it's better than nothing :|
Oct 16 15:35:34 <prometheanfire>	also
Oct 16 15:35:50 <antarus>	I will perhaps collect some stats
Oct 16 15:35:53 <antarus>	on foundation membership vs staff
Oct 16 15:35:54 <prometheanfire>	tying it to staff would make retirement from staff mean you loose membership
Oct 16 15:36:01 <antarus>	if they leave gentoo, and that makes them leave the foundation
Oct 16 15:36:11 <antarus>	that may be sufficient to keep rolls reflective of active members
Oct 16 15:36:12 <prometheanfire>	staff is an underused position within gentoo atm
Oct 16 15:36:29 <antarus>	AI(antarus) to run some numbers
Oct 16 15:36:32 <prometheanfire>	at least from what I've seen
Oct 16 15:36:46 <prometheanfire>	antarus: want me to say that?
Oct 16 15:36:56 <antarus>	?
Oct 16 15:37:05 <prometheanfire>	Action Item, antarus - run some numbers
Oct 16 15:37:06 <antarus>	I am perfectly comfortable making AIs for myself, haha
Oct 16 15:37:09 <prometheanfire>	:P
Oct 16 15:37:18 <antarus>	I will run 1 mile in 10 minutes
Oct 16 15:37:31 <prometheanfire>	ok, I'll let that sit for now, next?
Oct 16 15:37:46 <antarus>	dabbott: any other comments specifically on managing foundation rolls?
Oct 16 15:37:56 <dabbott>	no
Oct 16 15:38:08 <prometheanfire>	k, next
Oct 16 15:38:21 <prometheanfire>	Elect President
Oct 16 15:38:34 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: around? you sent the email so may have a canidate list
Oct 16 15:38:44 <prometheanfire>	I don't remember seeing anyone step forward
Oct 16 15:38:44 <antarus>	candidates were supposed to email trustees@
Oct 16 15:38:49 <prometheanfire>	ya
Oct 16 15:38:49 <antarus>	and afaik I saw 0 entries
Oct 16 15:38:52 <antarus>	minus your IRC entry ;)
Oct 16 15:38:58 <dabbott>	I did not see any reply's 
Oct 16 15:39:08 <prometheanfire>	ya, I only volunteered as a backup
Oct 16 15:39:28 <antarus>	bathroom, brb
Oct 16 15:39:36 <prometheanfire>	k
Oct 16 15:39:39 <prometheanfire>	5 min break
Oct 16 15:41:28 <NeddySeagoon>	alicef may come forward.
Oct 16 15:42:35 <dabbott>	We just have a hard time getting people interested in the foundation, thats why it was researched to turn it over to a co-op but we did not want to lose control of the money etc
Oct 16 15:42:37 <NeddySeagoon>	Other than that, I've had a few messages from well wishers in response to President Wanated 
Oct 16 15:42:49 *	antarus is back
Oct 16 15:43:07 <prometheanfire>	!time alicef 
Oct 16 15:43:07 <willikins>	prometheanfire: Asia - Tokyo - Mon Oct 17 04:43 JST
Oct 16 15:43:16 <prometheanfire>	bad time to ask
Oct 16 15:43:38 <NeddySeagoon>	I've had a few /query sessions
Oct 16 15:45:02 <prometheanfire>	I'd personally rather not go antoher month without a president, but it may not hurt...
Oct 16 15:46:48 *	ChanServ gives voice to K_F
Oct 16 15:46:52 <prometheanfire>	anyone have any strong opinions?
Oct 16 15:47:40 <dabbott>	We need someone accountable, I would even pay the right person
Oct 16 15:47:44 <antarus>	what do we expect to change
Oct 16 15:47:48 <antarus>	between now and next month
Oct 16 15:48:22 <prometheanfire>	antarus: nothing really?
Oct 16 15:48:25 <prometheanfire>	dabbott: accountable for what?
Oct 16 15:49:10 <dabbott>	To drive the foundation forward
Oct 16 15:49:27 <prometheanfire>	fair enough
Oct 16 15:49:28 <antarus>	The president is basically CEO-esque
Oct 16 15:49:35 <antarus>	so he has an agenda, stuff he wants done, etc
Oct 16 15:49:35 <dabbott>	get stuff done anser to the board
Oct 16 15:49:55 <antarus>	we generally haven't had much of that
Oct 16 15:50:06 <prometheanfire>	which may be part of the problem :P
Oct 16 15:50:09 <antarus>	sure
Oct 16 15:50:10 <prometheanfire>	or not
Oct 16 15:50:21 <antarus>	(this isn't an attack on the previous president or anything)
Oct 16 15:50:25 <dabbott>	we all have real live stuff that takes our time and energy
Oct 16 15:50:29 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: <3
Oct 16 15:50:30 <antarus>	we appreciate your service NeddySeagoon ;)
Oct 16 15:50:48 <antarus>	I also think Gentoo is not necessarily...receptive to such things
Oct 16 15:50:59 <prometheanfire>	well, the president could switch next month right?
Oct 16 15:50:59 <antarus>	because the foundatoin has very little direct power in the current metastructure
Oct 16 15:51:05 <prometheanfire>	would an interim president work?
Oct 16 15:51:15 <antarus>	and so it would be interesting to see how someone would drive anything from here
Oct 16 15:51:21 <NeddySeagoon>	There is actully little to do other than get our position straight federally and with thu IRS.  We have no say in the distro but we take the blame
Oct 16 15:51:53 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: first part is in progress, second part may be in progress too :P
Oct 16 15:52:05 <NeddySeagoon>	prometheanfire: Yep, I'm aware
Oct 16 15:52:33 <NeddySeagoon>	Nobody driven the IRS :)
Oct 16 15:52:39 <NeddySeagoon>	drives*
Oct 16 15:52:39 <antarus>	well let me put it this way
Oct 16 15:52:47 <antarus>	are we willing ot vote on a president with 3 votes?
Oct 16 15:52:50 <antarus>	or shall we defer?
Oct 16 15:52:59 <NeddySeagoon>	I suggest defer
Oct 16 15:53:01 <dabbott>	lets wait
Oct 16 15:53:03 <prometheanfire>	ya, defer
Oct 16 15:53:08 <antarus>	agreed
Oct 16 15:53:25 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: get the canidates to email trustees@ with their 'manifesto'
Oct 16 15:53:32 <prometheanfire>	I'll do the same
Oct 16 15:53:46 <prometheanfire>	no other business?
Oct 16 15:54:12 <NeddySeagoon>	I'm not intending to be doing other things until after Christmas.  Tonight was just an unplanned late dinner.  Sorry for the short notice
Oct 16 15:54:27 <antarus>	did we do bugs?
Oct 16 15:54:37 <antarus>	I feel like we have a lot of them open ;p
Oct 16 15:54:37 <dabbott>	no
Oct 16 15:54:43 <prometheanfire>	no, sorry
Oct 16 15:54:54 <prometheanfire>	open bugs
Oct 16 15:54:58 <prometheanfire>	https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=IN_PROGRESS&bug_status=VERIFIED&email2=trustees&emailassigned_to2=1&emailcc2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailtype2=substring&known_name=TrusteesOpenBugs&list_id=3290194&order=Last%20Changed&query_based_on=TrusteesOpenBugs&query_format=advanced&resolution=---
Oct 16 15:55:03 <prometheanfire>	quite the link
Oct 16 15:55:15 <NeddySeagoon>	a lot of bugs look like thef need an off line review and just closed
Oct 16 15:55:15 <antarus>	Can we close bug 543768
Oct 16 15:55:18 <willikins>	antarus: https://bugs.gentoo.org/543768 "Joining the NTF foundation"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; dabbott:trustees
Oct 16 15:55:20 <antarus>	or do we need a vote?
Oct 16 15:55:33 <NeddySeagoon>	WE voteh to toh join
Oct 16 15:55:37 <NeddySeagoon>	not*
Oct 16 15:55:40 <prometheanfire>	I say nay
Oct 16 15:55:40 <dabbott>	close it I say
Oct 16 15:55:41 <prometheanfire>	close
Oct 16 15:55:46 <NeddySeagoon>	 They wanted an NDA
Oct 16 15:55:49 <prometheanfire>	that's quorum :P
Oct 16 15:55:57 <antarus>	aye close
Oct 16 15:56:02 <prometheanfire>	ok, closing
Oct 16 15:56:04 <antarus>	I need to find my bugzilla password ;)
Oct 16 15:56:13 <dabbott>	bug 591704
Oct 16 15:56:15 <willikins>	dabbott: https://bugs.gentoo.org/591704 "commemorate Jon Portnoy (avenj)"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; jer:trustees
Oct 16 15:56:27 <dabbott>	we can close that also
Oct 16 15:56:31 <prometheanfire>	dabbott: I think that's completed as well
Oct 16 15:56:45 <NeddySeagoon>	Complete.  We got a thank you that should go on the bug
Oct 16 15:56:57 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: mind adding that real quick?
Oct 16 15:57:10 <antarus>	https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473214
Oct 16 15:57:19 <antarus>	once we get mail forwarding they might be able to handle that?
Oct 16 15:57:25 <prometheanfire>	bug 473214
Oct 16 15:57:28 <willikins>	prometheanfire: https://bugs.gentoo.org/473214 "Non-paypal contribution method"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; rich0:trustees
Oct 16 15:57:31 <NeddySeagoon>	I need to find it.  its is emails to trustees@
Oct 16 15:57:41 <prometheanfire>	antarus: robbat2 is handling that atm
Oct 16 15:58:05 <dabbott>	I closed bug 591704
Oct 16 15:58:05 <willikins>	dabbott: https://bugs.gentoo.org/591704 "commemorate Jon Portnoy (avenj)"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; jer:trustees
Oct 16 15:58:11 <prometheanfire>	k
Oct 16 15:58:30 <antarus>	did we do 536668
Oct 16 15:58:32 <antarus>	in 2015?
Oct 16 15:58:34 <antarus>	bug 536668
Oct 16 15:58:36 <willikins>	antarus: https://bugs.gentoo.org/536668 "Grammar bug leads to wrong interpretation of social contract"; Websites, Other; CONF; dberkholz:trustees
Oct 16 15:58:41 <prometheanfire>	dabbott: I don't see it closed
Oct 16 15:59:00 <dabbott>	sorry wrong bug, I closed bug 591836 
Oct 16 15:59:03 <willikins>	https://bugs.gentoo.org/591836 "NM Annual Filing Fee"; Gentoo Foundation, Filings; RESO, FIXE; dabbott:trustees
Oct 16 15:59:09 <prometheanfire>	ah, k
Oct 16 16:00:48 <dabbott>	I think thats all we can do today
Oct 16 16:00:52 <antarus>	agreed
Oct 16 16:01:01 <prometheanfire>	ya
Oct 16 16:01:06 <prometheanfire>	running over now
Oct 16 16:01:07 <NeddySeagoon>	prometheanfire: I can't find the 'thank you' right now
Oct 16 16:01:26 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: np, the bug is still open
Oct 16 16:01:38 <prometheanfire>	ok, til next month then...
Oct 16 16:01:50 <NeddySeagoon>	20 Nov
Oct 16 16:01:50 <prometheanfire>	do we want to get a time for the dec meeting?
Oct 16 16:02:01 <NeddySeagoon>	Its alwayn 19:00 UTC
Oct 16 16:02:04 <antarus>	let me check my dates
Oct 16 16:02:10 *	prometheanfire means date
Oct 16 16:02:21 <NeddySeagoon>	Its the 3rd Sun
Oct 16 16:02:26 <antarus>	ok I am around on nov 20
Oct 16 16:02:40 <NeddySeagoon>	Me too
Oct 16 16:02:40 <prometheanfire>	17 dec 2016 is fine with me
Oct 16 16:02:45 <prometheanfire>	bah
Oct 16 16:02:46 <prometheanfire>	18
Oct 16 16:02:49 <antarus>	oh we need to decide dec?
Oct 16 16:02:58 <antarus>	I think I am around until dec 21
Oct 16 16:02:58 <dabbott>	prometheanfire: next meeting in Nov
Oct 16 16:03:01 <prometheanfire>	just to put as a note for the next meeting
Oct 16 16:03:13 <NeddySeagoon>	18 Dec works for me too
Oct 16 16:03:18 <antarus>	so lgtm without checking my calendar :)
Oct 16 16:03:23 <prometheanfire>	yes, the next meeting is 20 nov, after that is 18 dec
Oct 16 16:03:28 <prometheanfire>	k
Oct 16 16:03:31 <NeddySeagoon>	yep
Oct 16 16:03:34 <prometheanfire>	any other business?
Oct 16 16:03:34 <dabbott>	both fine here
Oct 16 16:03:49 <NeddySeagoon>	One thing from me ...
Oct 16 16:05:11 <NeddySeagoon>	We had received a joint email to trustees and council.  It should be acknowleged, probably by council, or it looks like its being ignored.   It was on a council topic 
Oct 16 16:05:50 <antarus>	is this the email from Ian, or Rich?
Oct 16 16:05:58 <NeddySeagoon>	Neither
Oct 16 16:06:55 <prometheanfire>	talking about the joint work?
Oct 16 16:07:06 <antarus>	I am confused as to which email you are referring then ;p
Oct 16 16:07:50 <NeddySeagoon>	skip it ... I can't find it right now
Oct 16 16:08:23 <prometheanfire>	ok, til next time then
Oct 16 16:08:40 *	prometheanfire bangs the virtual gavel to close this meeting