path: root/meeting-logs/20110210.txt

[21:01:20] <scarabeus> lets roll
[21:01:27] <scarabeus> rollcall lads
[21:01:29] <scarabeus> !herd kde
[21:01:29] <willikins> (kde) abcd, alexxy, dilfridge, jmbsvicetto, patrick, reavertm, scarabeus, spatz, tampakrap
[21:01:32] <tampakrap> wait wait
[21:01:43] <alexxy> ohhh
[21:01:47] -*- jmbsvicetto hides
[21:01:54] <alexxy> i completely forget about meeting
[21:02:30] <scarabeus> tampakrap: sup
[21:03:14] <tampakrap> need to ping more people
[21:03:22] <reavertm> here
[21:03:24] <scarabeus> so lets wait on tampy
[21:03:53] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: you are around?
[21:04:01] <bonsaikitten> aye aye captain
[21:04:11] <alexxy> he is square =)
[21:04:26] <scarabeus> (not for much longer i hope)
[21:04:41] <tampakrap> anyway, let's go
[21:05:39] --> krytzz (~quassel@quassel/user/krytzz) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[21:06:36] <scarabeus> so there are two guys whom can be lead
[21:06:38] --> papillon81 (~papillon8@g230050057.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[21:06:41] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten and tampakrap
[21:06:45] <papillon81> greets
[21:06:50] <scarabeus> so guys do you accept nomination?
[21:07:14] <tampakrap> yes, and i nominate you and jmbsvicetto as well
[21:07:21] <jmbsvicetto> no!!
[21:07:33] -*- papillon81 nominates scarabeus, too, but knows he can't vote
[21:07:46] -*- scarabeus humbly does not accept the nomination, cause he does not use this mess anymore :)
[21:07:52] <papillon81> LOL
[21:07:55] -*- reavertm nominates scarabeus
[21:08:00] <scarabeus> GUYS!
[21:08:20] -*- jmbsvicetto nominates scarabeus as well - just to be consistent
[21:08:22] <tampakrap> ok i nominate reavertm
[21:08:23] <bonsaikitten> lol
[21:08:25] --> dilfridge (~quassel@gentoo/developer/dilfridge) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[21:08:36] <tampakrap> i also nominate dilfridge
[21:08:45] <tampakrap> because i like his hair style
[21:08:48] <bonsaikitten> scarabeus: I guess we won't have a vote without a second candidate, so yes
[21:09:26] <dilfridge> grr sorry having slight dsl problems
[21:09:27] -*- alexxy also nominates scarabeus and tampakrap =D
[21:09:30] <dilfridge> grr sorry having slight dsl problems
[21:09:37] <dilfridge> err
[21:09:37] <jmbsvicetto> ok, so we have nominations for: tampakrap, bonsaikitten, scarabeus, jmbsvicetto, reavertm and dilfridge. Anyone else?
[21:09:47] <dilfridge> ah
[21:10:01] <dilfridge> here
[21:10:09] <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap and bonsaikitten accepted. I refused. Others?
[21:10:30] <scarabeus> i refuse
[21:10:32] -*- reavertm nominates alexxy for good behaviour and tree bumps
[21:10:44] <alexxy> no!!!!!!
[21:11:02] <jmbsvicetto> so, reavertm and dilfridge, do you accept your nominations?
[21:11:10] <jmbsvicetto> alexxy: I'm counting you as refusing
[21:11:19] <alexxy> yep =)
[21:11:23] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: you write summary>?
[21:11:28] <tampakrap> no, i will
[21:11:29] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: NO!! :P
[21:11:34] <scarabeus> ook i am
[21:11:40] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: just helping to summarize points
[21:11:48] <dilfridge> I'm not gonna refuse, but I'm not the best choice... I may drop offline for a while at any point because of real-life workload
[21:11:50] <tampakrap> I WILL WRITE THE SUMMARY
[21:11:53] <reavertm> well, I can accept but be advised I'm not active any more as I used to
[21:12:04] <likewhoa> scarabeus: who's going to protect the children now that you won't be lead?
[21:12:19] <jmbsvicetto> so it seem we have 4 candidates: tampakrap, bonsaikitten, reavertm and dilfridge
[21:12:30] <jmbsvicetto> seems*
[21:12:46] <tampakrap> so, how do we vote?
[21:12:53] <jmbsvicetto> Should we open an "election window" so everyone in the team can cast their vote?
[21:13:02] <scarabeus> nopes
[21:13:03] <scarabeus> here
[21:13:03] <dilfridge> huh?
[21:13:04] <scarabeus> now
[21:13:06] <scarabeus> attending
[21:13:06] <jmbsvicetto> one way would be to vote to the kde alias or gentoo-desktop ml
[21:13:11] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: dilfridge said no
[21:13:28] <tampakrap> he said he is NOT going to refuse
[21:13:29] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I read it as "I'm not going to refuse"
[21:13:39] <dilfridge> jmbsvicetto: correct
[21:13:48] <scarabeus> ah
[21:13:51] <jmbsvicetto> so 4 candidates
[21:13:52] <tampakrap> ok, how do we vote? only one choice?
[21:14:10] <likewhoa> poll?
[21:14:10] <scarabeus> yeah one choice
[21:14:16] <dilfridge> one choice
[21:14:31] <jmbsvicetto> Do you want to vote by email / irc / votify? Do we want a public or private election?
[21:14:39] <dilfridge> oh dear
[21:14:43] <jmbsvicetto> just asking
[21:14:55] <reavertm> I can vote now, by irc
[21:14:57] <jmbsvicetto> I don't have any preference
[21:15:08] <scarabeus> now over irc one person
[21:15:08] <jmbsvicetto> Do we have enough KDE team members around to do it?
[21:15:11] <scarabeus> kthx
[21:15:13] <scarabeus> yes we do
[21:15:14] <dilfridge> no preference here either
[21:15:17] <jmbsvicetto> good
[21:15:19] <alexxy> by irc =)
[21:15:21] <scarabeus> i watch this stuff
[21:15:29] <dilfridge> !herd kde
[21:15:30] <willikins> (kde) abcd, alexxy, dilfridge, jmbsvicetto, patrick, reavertm, scarabeus, spatz, tampakrap
[21:15:50] <dilfridge> please acknowledge your presence :)
[21:15:51] <jmbsvicetto> to get elected someone needs to get 5 votes - at least on the first vote count. Agreed?
[21:15:52] <tampakrap> abcd and spatz seem to be missing
[21:15:54] <likewhoa> abcd and spatz missing or not active
[21:16:15] <dilfridge> abcd present but inactive
[21:16:32] <jmbsvicetto> 5 out of 9 - to get > 50%
[21:16:38] <dilfridge> ok
[21:16:56] <jmbsvicetto> so, shall we vote?
[21:17:28] -*- reavertm present and active
[21:17:34] <bonsaikitten> present
[21:17:38] <dilfridge> present
[21:17:42] <tampakrap> present
[21:17:44] <alexxy> present
[21:17:47] <scarabeus> present
[21:18:02] <bonsaikitten> that's at least 7 as far as I can tell
[21:18:19] <jmbsvicetto> present
[21:18:37] <bonsaikitten> means we can do irc vote now
[21:18:47] <bonsaikitten> public vote acceptable? I am indifferent
[21:18:55] <scarabeus> just go public
[21:18:58] <scarabeus> why to hide
[21:19:03] <scarabeus> (come on as retiring one ic
[21:19:04] <bonsaikitten> yes, any opposition?
[21:19:09] <scarabeus> an just decide that)
[21:19:11] <jmbsvicetto> not from me
[21:19:14] <dilfridge> no opposition here
[21:19:17] <tampakrap> public
[21:19:24] <reavertm> go ahead public
[21:19:30] <jmbsvicetto> so, votes?
[21:19:41] <scarabeus> vote: tampakrap
[21:19:42] -*- dilfridge votes tampakrap
[21:19:54] -*- bonsaikitten votes for tampakrap
[21:20:00] -*- tampakrap votes reavertm
[21:20:05] -*- alexxy votes for tampakrap
[21:20:06] -*- reavertm votes tampakrap
[21:20:31] <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap:
[21:20:39] -*- jmbsvicetto votes tampakrap 
[21:20:43] <bonsaikitten> that's 6 for tampakrap already, which is a simple majority
[21:20:46] <dilfridge> I guess that counts as a majority
[21:20:56] <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: Congratulations ;)
[21:20:58] <scarabeus> yep
[21:21:03] <tampakrap> thank you ladies
[21:21:03] <reavertm> congrats
[21:21:04] <bonsaikitten> I like efficiency :)
[21:21:10] <tampakrap> i'm going to dissapoint you for sure
[21:21:24] <reavertm> that's why we voted you ;)
[21:22:01] <alexxy> =D
[21:22:06] <dilfridge> which means 9% of the agenda is DONE! Yeah!
[21:22:26] <tampakrap> ok i'm going to chair the rest of the meeting
[21:22:35] <tampakrap> 1) status regarding hal
[21:22:55] <tampakrap> it is dead, not needed in 4.6, i'm going to convert samuli's forum post to guidexml
[21:22:59] <tampakrap> anything else to say here?
[21:23:01] <dilfridge> anyone still running hal here?
[21:23:01] <reavertm> well, when 4.5 is ouot, we won't need it anymore
[21:23:18] <dilfridge> (and 4.4)
[21:23:38] <tampakrap> ok
[21:23:41] <tampakrap> anything else about it?
[21:23:49] <reavertm> I'd say wait for 4.6.1 and then remove 4.5 from tree, then HAL can die
[21:24:02] <tampakrap> discussion about the future of 4.6 is later in the list
[21:24:10] <reavertm> ah, 4.4...
[21:24:14] <scarabeus> ook we need to keep it until 5
[21:24:17] <scarabeus> 4.6 is stable
[21:24:22] <scarabeus> typo with the 5
[21:24:36] <tampakrap> http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/kde.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/maintainers/meetings/meeting-2011-02-10;h=3d4869e4043c080750c68b2c7da66cfaf10f3c0d;hb=298fad1df1839ec400a346a9c60036a96e0b440e
[21:24:40] <tampakrap> topics here btw
[21:24:51] <tampakrap> ok we're done with hal, next
[21:24:56] <tampakrap>    5 2) should we try to form a "stable kde devs" team? meaning just call for volunteers on the dev ml?
[21:25:01] <tampakrap> 2) should we try to form a "stable kde devs" team? meaning just call for volunteers on the dev ml?
[21:25:07] <dilfridge> that was my idea
[21:25:17] <reavertm> please elaborate
[21:25:18] <dilfridge> basically many of us are running 9999
[21:25:46] <dilfridge> and right now the distance between 9999 and stable is so huge that it can be difficult to test stable bugfixes
[21:25:52] <tampakrap> my opinion is we don't need it, we usually stabilize fast, with the great exception of 4.5
[21:26:03] <reavertm> by '9999' you mean 4.x.9999 as well?
[21:26:07] <dilfridge> the problem may go away on its own with 4.6
[21:26:08] <scarabeus> we dont sta le
[21:26:12] <scarabeus> misc apps are slow
[21:26:15] <scarabeus> seriously
[21:26:24] <scarabeus> some of them were stabilised by me with the last cleanup
[21:26:29] <tampakrap> who cares? i will stabilize them on user request
[21:26:31] <scarabeus> other than that nobody bothers opening bugs
[21:26:38] <tampakrap> and by me and dilfridge as well
[21:26:48] <dilfridge> we may forget about this point if we get a 4.6 stable soonish
[21:27:07] <alexxy> and if we drop older releases
[21:27:13] <tampakrap> again, discussion about 4.6 future is later in the list, so let's skip this point for now
[21:27:20] <tampakrap> dilfridge: agreed?
[21:27:23] <dilfridge> but as long as we want to keep 4.4 still around, we should ask for some "stable testers" on the dev-ml
[21:27:24] <dilfridge> yes
[21:27:27] <dilfridge> agreed
[21:27:29] <tampakrap> anything else here?
[21:27:34] <dilfridge> no
[21:27:43] <tampakrap> noone?
[21:27:48] <tampakrap> ok, next:
[21:27:52] <tampakrap> 3) kde-git/eclasses migration and status, move kdepim 4.6 beta in tree masked
[21:28:13] <tampakrap> reavertm / Sput / scarabeus (i don't know who else) did some cleanings in the eclass
[21:28:13] <scarabeus> ok i cleaned a mess we had in eclass
[21:28:17] <scarabeus> now reaver is focused on it
[21:28:21] <tampakrap> how is its status? can it be merged? ETA?
[21:28:30] <scarabeus> sput is main person responsible for packages from my PoV
[21:28:34] <scarabeus> aka he tests
[21:28:42] <scarabeus> (but he is on date now)
[21:28:46] <scarabeus> eta is upstream is insane
[21:28:52] <scarabeus> cause it will take quite some time
[21:28:52] <dilfridge> ?
[21:28:54] <dilfridge> ok
[21:29:03] <reavertm> we need git-2 in tree first (what else do you mean by 'merge'?)
[21:29:15] <scarabeus> yeah git-2 is progressed as we speak
[21:29:22] <tampakrap> migrate, not merge
[21:29:23] <scarabeus> i need to talk with ulm a bout some variale names
[21:29:48] <tampakrap> ok, so 1) git-2 in tree 2) review/test 3) move to tree
[21:29:53] <tampakrap> can we have an ETA?
[21:30:14] <tampakrap> and anything specific we should test?
[21:30:20] <scarabeus> git2 14 days
[21:30:29] <scarabeus> i want to hear if all features are implemented
[21:30:34] <scarabeus> and if we lack something
[21:30:40] <scarabeus> (i want to keep that mess minimal)
[21:30:48] <scarabeus> i might to remove 2 cloning apoproaches and keep only one
[21:30:52] <scarabeus> (the submodules one(
[21:31:10] <reavertm> kde4-* seems to work - I don't think anyone will ever implement KMEXTRA-aware kde4-meta_src_unpack for git though
[21:31:53] <dilfridge> has anyone tried koffice?
[21:31:58] <tampakrap> yes
[21:32:02] <tampakrap> it works
[21:32:05] <likewhoa> dilfridge: wfm
[21:32:19] <dilfridge> but with that calligra /&/&%(/& its prbably getting more complicated again
[21:32:21] <scarabeus> i could complain about integration of tha tone shit
[21:32:22] <dilfridge> ok good
[21:32:26] <scarabeus> but go ahead
[21:32:37] <dilfridge> we can get koffice out
[21:32:47] <tampakrap> sure, do it
[21:32:49] <dilfridge> actually I think that it should go out
[21:32:56] <dilfridge> once I have the time...
[21:33:01] <tampakrap> yes, i agree, i can help
[21:33:07] <dilfridge> ok cool
[21:33:08] <tampakrap> do you want to move the code to ebuilds directly?
[21:33:29] <dilfridge> I have not made any plans at all
[21:33:32] <dilfridge> so far
[21:33:49] <dilfridge> but I think the only real issue is unpack/prepare
[21:33:50] <tampakrap> anyway, moving the koffice bits out of the eclass is very wise thing to do
[21:33:55] <tampakrap> reavertm: idea on how to do it?
[21:34:09] <scarabeus> i already removed most bits sunshines
[21:34:20] <tampakrap> of koffice?
[21:34:20] <dilfridge> good
[21:34:26] <scarabeus> yeah
[21:34:30] <tampakrap> i didn't notice
[21:34:34] <tampakrap> ok cool
[21:34:36] <dilfridge> even better!
[21:34:51] <tampakrap> so, ETA? scarabeus?
[21:34:53] <tampakrap> a month?
[21:34:55] <tampakrap> less?
[21:35:19] <reavertm> there's still some koffice stuff in kde4-meta though
[21:35:39] <scarabeus> i need to work on git-2 first
[21:35:43] <scarabeus> so not sooner than month
[21:35:58] <tampakrap> ok, if you can compile a list of todo for that we could help
[21:36:03] <reavertm> I think deadlines would be unreliable anyway
[21:36:12] <tampakrap> for the record mostly
[21:36:17] <dilfridge> no deadlines just planning
[21:36:36] <tampakrap> anyway, i think we are done here
[21:36:46] <tampakrap> 4) Shall we drop useflags kdeenablefinal and/or kdeprefix to simplify code?
[21:36:56] <tampakrap> shall we vote on this?
[21:37:00] <scarabeus> no
[21:37:05] <tampakrap> i really object
[21:37:09] <scarabeus> the impementors should tell us
[21:37:14] <scarabeus> kdeprefix - jorge
[21:37:18] <tampakrap> we have about 10 bugs about kdeenablefinal, no big deal
[21:37:19] <scarabeus> kdeenable - reaver
[21:37:25] <dilfridge> my opinion: keep kdeenablefinal (it's upstream stuff), drop kdeprefix (it fills up our eclasses with cruft)
[21:37:25] <tampakrap> and i want kdeprefix
[21:37:27] <reavertm> please keep kdeenablefinal at least (it's cheap)
[21:37:40] <scarabeus> kdeenable final should stay i agree
[21:37:45] <tampakrap> the guy that filed the bugs for kdeenablefinal provided patches
[21:37:46] <scarabeus> but kdeprefix i dont see anyone using it
[21:38:00] <tampakrap> i plan to do it actually
[21:38:21] <tampakrap> i want to switch back to live as my main desktop
[21:38:31] <tampakrap> and i don't want a chroot as i did in the past
[21:38:34] <reavertm> some packages cannot be kdeprefixed (bindings for instance)
[21:38:41] <alexxy> hmm
[21:38:42] <tampakrap> i plan to work on them
[21:38:50] <reavertm> no, they can't
[21:38:51] <alexxy> why we still need kdeprefix?
[21:39:00] <alexxy> it will confuse end users
[21:39:05] <tampakrap> it's a feature, we don't "need" it
[21:39:13] <tampakrap> reavertm: why they can't?
[21:39:18] <dilfridge> it makes our eclasses way too complicated
[21:39:36] -*- reavertm doesn't think kdeprefix is complicated
[21:39:52] <tampakrap> why can't they be prefixed? i haven't looked at the code yet
[21:39:52] <reavertm> it definitely isn't like it used to be
[21:39:57] <tampakrap> i suppose you did
[21:39:59] <scarabeus> it is qutie clear
[21:40:07] <scarabeus> but qutie few apps are not kdeprefix aware
[21:40:09] <scarabeus> (misc one)
[21:40:19] <scarabeus> and it has quite few bugs noone attendet to
[21:40:25] <scarabeus> *ded
[21:40:52] <tampakrap> ok then, give me time till the next meeting to test it and i'll report back
[21:40:55] <reavertm> tampakrap: actually bindings may work but sip files needs to be slotted
[21:41:08] <tampakrap> i plan to work on the misc apps and python packages
[21:41:25] <reavertm> judge 1st it's worth your time
[21:41:31] -*- reavertm thinks it isn't
[21:41:37] <tampakrap> no, having to maintain a chroot is
[21:42:12] <alexxy> well i use live on my laptop
[21:42:22] <alexxy> and its only DE here
[21:42:37] <tampakrap> anyway, do we all agree to keep kdeenablefinal and kdeprefix and bring the topic back again?
[21:42:38] -*- dilfridge thinks a laptop can crash in more than one way anyway :D
[21:43:05] <dilfridge> mumble... ok
[21:43:44] <tampakrap> i see no objections, next:
[21:43:51] <tampakrap> 5) Dropping of semantic-desktop useflag with guide update (mostly even kdebase needs it on now)
[21:44:06] <tampakrap> i fixed it for plasma-workspace
[21:44:09] <scarabeus> i would reat
[21:44:13] <tampakrap> i had to write an upstream patch
[21:44:16] <scarabeus> rather preffer it to be still availible
[21:44:25] <scarabeus> virtuoso and semantic stuff is not something most might want
[21:44:46] <tampakrap> our ebuilds are broken, upstream still has support for the useflag
[21:45:11] <tampakrap> plasma-workspace along with libplasmaclock causes trouble with kdepimlibs due to our splitting
[21:45:16] <tampakrap> i'll dig in more
[21:45:16] <scarabeus> tampakrap: your fix suck
[21:45:17] <dilfridge> does anyone know how this will develop for 4.7?
[21:45:32] <scarabeus> tampakrap: i dont want libkdepim as harddep for it
[21:45:38] <tampakrap> it doesn't, it was approved by aseigo
[21:45:44] <tampakrap> what harddep?
[21:45:49] <tampakrap> what are you talking about?
[21:45:56] <reavertm> wait wait, libkepim != kdepimlibs
[21:46:03] <dilfridge> and what happens when kdepim-4.6 goes in tree?
[21:46:50] <tampakrap> https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdebase/kde-workspace/repository/revisions/5701ee97f896bf25de5dfbcc2699695794f25b34
[21:47:06] <tampakrap> this is the patch, where do you see a harddep?
[21:48:11] <tampakrap> anyway, our affected ebuilds are plasma-workspace/libplasmaclock and kdeplasma-addons
[21:48:19] <scarabeus> ah i am talking about plasma workspace
[21:48:21] <scarabeus> :)
[21:48:22] <tampakrap> i saw the code, the problem is in our side
[21:48:27] <reavertm> first of all, libkdepim is from KDEPIM, and it's not kdepimlibs
[21:48:33] <tampakrap> the patch is in plasma-workspace
[21:48:59] <reavertm> anything else needs kdepimlibs?
[21:49:11] <tampakrap> nothing needs it, it is still optional
[21:49:30] <reavertm> why do we have this agenda item then? :P
[21:50:00] --> dilfridge_ (~quassel@gentoo/developer/dilfridge) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[21:50:01] <tampakrap> i have no idea, i am just pointing out that the item is invalid, the problem is in our side
[21:50:06] <-- dilfridge (~quassel@gentoo/developer/dilfridge) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:50:16] <scarabeus> ok in that case ebuilds need fixing
[21:50:22] <scarabeus> before we can stable 4.6
[21:50:26] <tampakrap> yes, we have open bugs and i am working on it
[21:50:49] <tampakrap> 6) Making +consolekit and +policikit or removing the useflags as whole (non working stuff run-as is annoying)
[21:51:00] <tampakrap> no idea about this one
[21:51:12] <scarabeus> thats from me
[21:51:26] <scarabeus> if those two are not around most of the user perms stuff is not working
[21:51:31] <scarabeus> so users might complain a lot
[21:51:31] <dilfridge_> I remember from some upstream bug report that one of them is now required
[21:51:41] <scarabeus> so i would go and just make it required
[21:51:42] <scarabeus> really
[21:51:51] <dilfridge_> if not it is just broken (not supported anymore)
[21:52:02] <-> dilfridge_ is now known as dilfridge
[21:52:04] <-> dilfridge is now known as dilfridge_
[21:52:06] <-> dilfridge_ is now known as dilfridge
[21:52:37] <tampakrap> is it too much load if we make them harddeps?
[21:52:42] <scarabeus> nope
[21:52:45] <scarabeus> like 5 more deps
[21:52:48] <tampakrap> sure then
[21:52:49] <bonsaikitten> people will whine, as usual
[21:53:04] <dilfridge> it kind of forces a more modern system, but makes debugging for us easier
[21:53:04] <scarabeus> for sure
[21:53:11] <reavertm> what about macos?
[21:53:19] <reavertm> do they have different KAuth backend?
[21:53:37] <tampakrap> http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/KAuth/KAuth_Basics
[21:53:47] -*- dilfridge thinks the weird guys should be handled later
[21:54:19] <tampakrap> i don't see anything arch specific there
[21:54:33] <reavertm> no, because it may determine we can't harddep them
[21:54:43] <tampakrap> do we have them enabled by default?
[21:54:48] <tampakrap> if not, can we do this instead?
[21:55:40] <papillon81> people should know that they need some things as deps to have a DE like KDE run normally
[21:55:47] <reavertm> tampakrap: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdelibs/repository/revisions/master/show/kdecore/auth/backends
[21:56:21] <tampakrap> yeah
[21:56:38] <tampakrap> so, should we ask upstream?
[21:56:47] <tampakrap> i could mail those guys listed in the changelog
[21:56:59] <reavertm> no need
[21:57:06] <tampakrap> or we could enable it by default for everything but mac
[21:57:08] <reavertm> I'd add IUSE defaults
[21:57:20] <dilfridge> reavertm: please not
[21:57:30] <dilfridge> people WILL try to switch it off
[21:57:42] <dilfridge> it does not help
[21:57:45] <papillon81> yes
[21:57:55] <reavertm> it doesn, then we can say - screw you, you disabled it
[21:58:08] <tampakrap> yeah, elog
[21:58:14] <papillon81> reavertm: it's a use flag so people think its optional
[21:58:16] <tampakrap> endofstory
[21:58:24] <dilfridge> and we have wasted time trying to find the problem and added additional cruft to the eclass
[21:58:31] <tampakrap> and elog gives me the right to invalid their bug
[21:58:38] <reavertm> it's also enabled by default which means there's some thinking behind it
[21:59:12] <dilfridge> we may be in the land of infinite options but not in the land of infinite support manpower
[21:59:37] <tampakrap> i agree with IUSE defaults ftr
[21:59:50] <reavertm> maybe use.force :P
[22:00:02] <scarabeus> god just drop it and let the 4 people complain
[22:00:05] <dilfridge> reavertm: that's ok I guess
[22:00:06] <reavertm> (someone can use.mask if one wants)
[22:00:09] <scarabeus> come on we threw mysql their way
[22:00:11] <scarabeus> and nobody whine
[22:00:12] <scarabeus> d
[22:00:15] <scarabeus> nowdays
[22:00:16] <scarabeus> :D
[22:00:19] <dilfridge> drop it!
[22:00:51] <tampakrap> reavertm: your call :P
[22:01:02] <tampakrap> i don't care much
[22:01:40] -*- reavertm thinks the one who is going to do the job, should decide
[22:02:37] <reavertm> I'm prefer not to drop use flags though
[22:02:39] <scarabeus> reavertm: ok your call
[22:02:52] <scarabeus> reavertm: tampakrap is the one who decide in the end nowdays :)
[22:03:02] <reavertm> it's not really a harddep if one wants just kdelibs + misc stuff
[22:03:13] <tampakrap> yeah i don't like dropping the useflag
[22:04:04] <reavertm> does use.force have precedence over use.mask?
[22:05:02] <reavertm> (I mean, is it possible for etc/portage/*/use.mask to disable use.forced flag?
[22:05:17] <tampakrap> no idea
[22:05:55] <tampakrap> anyway, it is taking too long, let's decide in the mailing list instead
[22:06:02] -*- reavertm votes for use.mask
[22:06:08] <reavertm> use.force*
[22:06:11] <tampakrap> i'll send the mail, we can get some feedback from users as well
[22:06:21] <reavertm> ok
[22:06:30] <dilfridge> use.force is easily done and reversible
[22:07:20] <reavertm> and should be hard enough for users to switch off
[22:07:24] <tampakrap> dilfridge: agree to continue in the ml?
[22:07:29] <dilfridge> ok
[22:07:36] <tampakrap> thank you
[22:07:39] <tampakrap> 7) AT/overlay/bugzie access policy
[22:07:43] <tampakrap> this is mine
[22:08:07] <tampakrap> scarabeus: i need a clear list on who has access to the overlay, who has editbugs privs and who is a KDE AT
[22:08:11] <tampakrap> and compile a page
[22:08:38] <tampakrap> and i need to define a rule for ATs, and get all those priviledges together
[22:08:40] <scarabeus> tampakrap: ahem you have access to the list
[22:08:41] <tampakrap> do you agree?
[22:08:46] <scarabeus> i dont have it
[22:08:53] <scarabeus> and i upgraded everyone to at already
[22:08:56] <tampakrap> lol, i know, i'm just saying
[22:08:58] <papillon81> who can potentially have elevated rights in bugzie?
[22:09:04] <papillon81> only real devs?
[22:09:11] <scarabeus> even users
[22:09:19] <scarabeus> which we are watching
[22:09:31] <dilfridge> "arch testers", "overlay committers"
[22:09:32] <tampakrap> the one who has finished ebuild quiz, has gone through an AT/HT review session and someone is watching him
[22:10:14] <tampakrap> so, define two groups of people in addition to ATs?
[22:10:28] <dilfridge> hmm?
[22:10:39] <dilfridge> what two groups?
[22:12:14] <tampakrap> ATs, overlay commiters
[22:12:20] <tampakrap> is that what you just said?
[22:13:06] <dilfridge> nono I was just trying to make a point to papillon81
[22:13:44] <tampakrap> ah k
[22:13:53] <tampakrap> scarabeus: i need your idea on what to do here
[22:14:03] <dilfridge> in effect, the two groups would be "overlay committers" and "bugedit", but I'm not sure if it would make sense to make just one group for that
[22:14:08] <tampakrap> i have no idea how to clean up this mess
[22:14:11] <dilfridge> simplifies things
[22:14:25] <tampakrap> eg Sput refuses to become an AT, doesn't want ot finish ebuild quiz
[22:14:40] <scarabeus> just have two groups, access ; access + bugedit which == AT
[22:14:44] <tampakrap> we could have overlay commiters and full ATs but i don't like it
[22:15:48] <tampakrap> anyway, i'll compile the list first and bring the topic up again
[22:16:04] <tampakrap> who is going to be AT lead now? or should we drop the title?
[22:16:15] <tampakrap> i find it a bit useless, like every lead position :P
[22:16:45] <dilfridge> drop it
[22:17:16] <tampakrap> no volunteers :P
[22:17:23] <tampakrap> next:
[22:17:25] <tampakrap> 8) livedvd issues
[22:17:28] <reavertm> who knows, AT lead does more recruiting work imho
[22:17:31] <tampakrap> likewhoa: anything to say here?
[22:17:47] <tampakrap> reavertm: do you want the position then?
[22:17:50] <likewhoa> nothing really just a few request made by users
[22:18:11] <reavertm> tampakrap: hell no
[22:18:27] <tampakrap> thought so :)
[22:18:33] <likewhoa> i added an icon to the kde start menu and some users wanted to know if kde can make use of it, also some users wanted to know if there were any gentoo centric kde themes
[22:18:37] <tampakrap> likewhoa: shoot now that we are all here :)
[22:18:57] -*- dilfridge runs
[22:19:06] -*- likewhoa pulls dilfridge back with some cookies
[22:19:22] <tampakrap> well, tbh i need someone to do some graphics work if we are going to implement branding
[22:19:33] <tampakrap> and i couldn't find anyone the last two years
[22:19:49] <likewhoa> tampakrap: poke a3li
[22:19:59] <tampakrap> he hates kde
[22:20:11] <likewhoa> i can also do graphics but won't be available for that until mid march
[22:20:30] <likewhoa> tampakrap: i made the wallpapers for the livedvd, not the one on the desktop but the others ones
[22:20:37] <likewhoa> i think jmbsvicetto used one for FOSDEM
[22:21:25] <tampakrap> well, if you are willing to help here i'm all in add it to the tree
[22:21:29] <likewhoa> but a kde gentoo centric theme would be ideal and can be part of the branding USE flag
[22:21:35] <tampakrap> sure
[22:21:46] <tampakrap> let's do some work first and bring the topic back again
[22:21:56] <likewhoa> ok
[22:22:08] <tampakrap> anything else?
[22:22:13] <likewhoa> no
[22:22:19] <tampakrap> cool thanks
[22:22:28] <tampakrap> please everyone test the dvd :)
[22:22:31] <tampakrap> in #gentoo-ten
[22:22:44] <likewhoa> use zsync so you don't waste bandwidth on new releases
[22:22:51] <likewhoa> net-misc/zsync that is
[22:23:03] <tampakrap> next:
[22:23:06] <tampakrap> 9) documentation status
[22:23:16] <tampakrap> pretty please everyone read the documentation
[22:23:36] <tampakrap> help me to complete the tips and troubleshoot with 4.6 specific parts
[22:24:09] <tampakrap> i wanted to say something more about this one but i forgot it
[22:24:19] <tampakrap> anyway, i'll merge the last two topics:
[22:24:26] <tampakrap> 10) 4.6 (and misc apps with 4.6) status
[22:24:33] <tampakrap> 11) early discussion about 4.6 stabilization
[22:25:03] <tampakrap> i'm listening, i vote early for 4.6.1 stabilization :)
[22:25:16] <papillon81> stabilize 4.6 as quick as possible. 4.6.1
[22:25:41] <tampakrap> i need more feedback about misc apps though
[22:25:57] <dilfridge> stabilize early. 4.6.1 should be fine.
[22:25:57] <tampakrap> for example, knetworkmanager is broken and i lack the hardware to test currently
[22:25:58] <papillon81> knetworkmanager is waiting for ubuntu
[22:26:12] <tampakrap> sorry?
[22:26:27] <reavertm> 4.6... doesn't feel worse than 4.5
[22:26:34] <papillon81> i talked with wstephenson about it yesterday
[22:26:39] <papillon81> strange, I know
[22:26:40] <dilfridge> do we want to wait for kdepim? if we say "stabilize fast" that means no
[22:26:50] <tampakrap> i don't get you at all, sorry
[22:26:56] <tampakrap> it is waiting for ubuntu to do what?
[22:27:11] <reavertm> tarball release /me thinks
[22:27:38] <tampakrap> well, let's wait for kdepim to get a proper release first :)
[22:28:14] <papillon81> <wstephenson> kubuntu are 'a bit worried' that it will be before KNM is ported to 0.9
[22:28:49] <papillon81> tampakrap: what exactly is broken in you opinion?
[22:28:59] <tampakrap> i have no idea, i saw a bug report
[22:29:07] <tampakrap> but my laptop is off now and i can't test
[22:29:12] <tampakrap> something about kwallet i think
[22:29:25] <tampakrap> i would like more to know though about this
[22:29:35] <papillon81> well. i can look into it. also there are some nice patches from the pardus guys
[22:29:36] <tampakrap> eg dilfridge: how is digikam/koffice in 4.6?
[22:29:42] <dilfridge> fine
[22:29:56] <tampakrap> reavertm: printing?
[22:29:59] <tampakrap> any progress?
[22:30:02] <dilfridge> 2.2.2 (stable) is broken but 2.3.1 is good
[22:30:36] <reavertm> printing.. some people report it works
[22:31:02] <dilfridge> since when is kde supposed to do printing? =)
[22:31:09] <tampakrap> since 4.4
[22:31:15] <tampakrap> "supposed"
[22:31:27] <dilfridge> I thought that feature was disabled with 4.0 ...
[22:31:40] <reavertm> I bump scp usually on time, scp-kde - I'd prefer it to be still in ~arch
[22:32:00] <reavertm> the feature was not ported to kde4 at all, you're right
[22:32:55] <tampakrap> anyway, we can discuss it next month after 4.6.1 gets a release
[22:33:08] <tampakrap> i remembered what i wanted to say about documentation
[22:33:10] <tampakrap> http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/kde.git;a=tree;f=Documentation;h=d7e234375abd5fc61c4d7dae47adaf57d9efcac1;hb=HEAD
[22:33:12] <reavertm> nothing to discuss here, printing will not go stable
[22:33:36] <tampakrap> i'm going to port them to guidexml (CODE, README etc) or merge them with the guide
[22:33:47] <dilfridge> good idea
[22:34:00] <tampakrap> i'll need feedback to the documentation though (pretty please)
[22:34:15] <tampakrap> i think we are done
[22:34:21] <tampakrap> *) open floor
[22:34:32] <dilfridge> did anyone of you hear from the digikam guys?
[22:34:45] <scarabeus> dilfridge: i am talking with will (suse)
[22:34:54] <scarabeus> to shutup him abvout the opensuse argument
[22:34:56] <scarabeus> so wait a bit
[22:34:58] <dilfridge> ok... what's the general feeling there
[22:35:00] <dilfridge> ok
[22:35:01] <scarabeus> cross distro coord takes lot time
[22:35:03] <tampakrap> what argument?
[22:35:25] <reavertm> so opensuse doesn't mind slotting and bundled libs?
[22:35:27] <scarabeus> tampakrap: "opensuse likes the libs bundled"
[22:35:35] <tampakrap> yeah good idea
[22:35:46] <dilfridge> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=265328#c6
[22:35:57] <scarabeus> plus debian and others already agreed not to ship digikam2
[22:36:05] <scarabeus> if the issue is not resolved
[22:36:09] <reavertm> scarabeus: please bring svuorela to the table
[22:36:19] <scarabeus> reavertm: he?
[22:36:21] <scarabeus> ah
[22:36:32] <reavertm> debian guy
[22:36:43] <tampakrap> we met him in fosdem
[22:36:49] <tampakrap> scarabeus: remember?
[22:36:53] <scarabeus> yep
[22:37:01] <scarabeus> that s why i said ah
[22:37:07] <scarabeus> anyway will do so
[22:37:07] <tampakrap> will anyone join me in desktop summit this year? :)
[22:37:14] <tampakrap> aug 6th berlin
[22:37:15] <scarabeus> where it is?
[22:37:21] <tampakrap> http://www.desktopsummit.org/
[22:37:29] <dilfridge> likely not me, other plans...
[22:37:42] <tampakrap> if i make it (99% i will) i'll apply for a gentoo talk
[22:37:53] <tampakrap> last year we were invited to do the talk
[22:37:59] <papillon81> oh, Berlin. that's good
[22:38:04] <scarabeus> berlin sounds good
[22:38:15] <scarabeus> but i would need to couchsurf somewhere :)
[22:38:27] <tampakrap> reavertm: how about you?
[22:38:39] <reavertm> very unlikely
[22:39:18] <reavertm> hmm, August... who knows..
[22:40:05] <tampakrap> ok ladies, i think that's all
[22:40:47] <reavertm> thanks