path: root/2020/20200822.log.txt

[03:01:08] <robbat2> ok, meeting time!
[03:01:43] <antarus> welcome to the 2020 AGM
[03:02:03] <antarus> roll call: antarus prometheanfire robbat2 ...whats FreedomBear alicef
[03:02:10] <prometheanfire> o/
[03:02:11] <antarus> sorry I forgot bman's new nick
[03:02:15] * FreedomBear here
[03:02:16] <antarus> its freedombear right? :)
[03:02:18] <antarus> cool
[03:02:23] <robbat2> aye
[03:02:30] <robbat2> quick agenda https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Meetings/2020/08
[03:03:13] <antarus> ahh I was throwing one together, you clicked save first, haha
[03:03:25] <robbat2> lol
[03:03:27] <robbat2> alicef: ping
[03:03:32] <antarus> (also aye for me, I'm here)
[03:04:41] <FreedomBear> robbat2: alicef mentioned the other day she couldn't make it tonight due to RL appt.
[03:04:43] <prometheanfire> robbat2: added as bulleted list to sec report
[03:04:48] <prometheanfire> ^
[03:05:01] <antarus> ok, will gavel with 4 current members
[03:05:42] * antarus gavels
[03:06:07] <antarus> who is logging?
[03:06:18] <prometheanfire> o/
[03:06:30] <antarus> I dunno what that means
[03:06:34] <antarus> can you use words? :)
[03:06:36] <prometheanfire> that's me raising my hand
[03:06:40] <prometheanfire> do I have to?
[03:06:44] <antarus> oh yes
[03:06:45] <prometheanfire> I'm logging :P
[03:06:48] <antarus> perfect
[03:06:48] <robbat2> yes, you have to use your words
[03:07:09] <antarus> draft financials, you want to share them robin?
[03:07:27] <robbat2> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Gentoo_Foundation_Finances_FY2020
[03:07:42] <robbat2> remaining actions on them:
[03:08:00] <robbat2> - finish forex transactions (represent as only USD, not mixed currency)
[03:08:16] <robbat2> - break out recurring donations vs one-time
[03:09:08] <robbat2> - confirm w/ CPA about Nitrokey being expense vs depreciable asset
[03:09:44] <robbat2> executive summary for here
[03:09:57] <robbat2> gross income: $16k
[03:10:08] <robbat2> gross expenses: $36k (need to confirm after forex is updated)
[03:10:26] <robbat2> If the tax-related expenditures are removed, and no other initiatives
[03:10:26] <robbat2> occured, the Foundation would have added $5k USD to reserves for the
[03:10:26] <robbat2> fiscal year.
[03:10:26] <robbat2> FY2021 should hold some more capital purchases to replace hardware that
[03:10:26] <robbat2> has failed recently or is at risk of failure; $2300 USD of hardware will
[03:10:29] <robbat2> have reached the end of it's 5-year depreciation cycle by the end of
[03:10:32] <robbat2> FY2021, with a further $10k of hardware in FY2022.
[03:11:13] <robbat2> Gross Income rough breakdown:
[03:11:13] <robbat2> - 30% is recurring contributions via Paypal
[03:11:13] <robbat2> - 30% is special contributions (GSOC payment, refunds)
[03:11:13] <robbat2> - Remaining 40% are one-time contributions via paypal or check
[03:11:38] <robbat2> no other remarks re financial statements
[03:12:14] <antarus> any other questions from the board on the 2020 financials?
[03:14:02] <antarus> seemingly not
[03:14:36] <antarus> reading this statement, we basically have 120k in cash equiv (bank) and 20k of capital assets?
[03:14:43] <antarus> am I reading that right?
[03:15:14] <antarus> (I'm heavily rounding here, obvs.)
[03:15:19] <robbat2> capital assets with residual value of $7k ($20k less $13k depreciation)
[03:15:37] <antarus> ack
[03:15:41] <robbat2> $130k in traditional banking, $14k in paypal
[03:15:58] <antarus> perfect
[03:16:24] <antarus> please vote aye to accept the 2020 financials, or vote nay if you have further questions or comments
[03:16:30] <prometheanfire> aye
[03:16:33] <robbat2> aye
[03:16:37] <FreedomBear> Aye
[03:16:40] <antarus> aye
[03:16:45] <antarus> Financials accepted, thanks.
[03:17:14] <antarus> prometheanfire: secretary report?
[03:17:15] <prometheanfire> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:2020_Secretary_Report
[03:17:41] <prometheanfire> main items are some of the expenses we've had
[03:18:15] <dwfreed> [5] says 2017
[03:18:53] <robbat2> refresh ;-)
[03:18:54] <antarus> congrats to prometheanfire and FreedomBear for winning this years election and staying on the board
[03:19:23] <FreedomBear> Happy to serve.
[03:19:28] <prometheanfire> the foundation retained tax services and paid some (back) taxes, along with the nitrokey inititive are the main 'out of cycle' items
[03:20:08] <robbat2> the sparc64 team after much poking actually clarified what they wanted so the Foundation purchased it
[03:20:25] <antarus> my understanding is that the nitrokey program is technically ongoing, although the main cost of the program is the initial set of orders
[03:20:26] <prometheanfire> out of cycle meaning non-ordinary (sparc server, cloud costs and replacement parts for infra are on the side of 'to be expected')
[03:20:51] <prometheanfire> antarus: iirc the ongoing cost was projected to be 1-2k per year
[03:21:00] <antarus> I'm slightly confused by the cloud costs; do we mean our leased boxes at hetzner?
[03:21:21] <antarus> (who are we paying for arm?)
[03:21:23] <prometheanfire> or aws object storage
[03:21:57] <prometheanfire> but that's what it looks like ( looking at the finance report )
[03:22:02] <antarus> ok
[03:22:09] <robbat2> Hetzner, Rackspace (free after they credited their billing issues), AWS (which is now mostly free)
[03:22:20] <robbat2> Packet (free)
[03:22:28] <robbat2> OSL (free, but we should donate back to them)
[03:22:53] <antarus> hetnzer is like 1200 of that 2k I suspect; I was just curious about the other stuff because I know much of it is donated
[03:23:06] <antarus> it would be interesting to have more recurring money to the OSL, yeah
[03:23:11] <robbat2> hetzner is ~1840/yr rightn ow
[03:23:13] <prometheanfire> ~1850
[03:23:20] <antarus> perhaps we should discuss this with lance
[03:23:34] <robbat2> OSL would be happy for further donations, it's been a few years since we last donated
[03:23:53] <antarus> k
[03:24:00] <antarus> any other qusetions or comments on the secretary report?
[03:24:29] <robbat2> i'd like to extend a thank you to klondike for running the election
[03:24:52] <robbat2> showing there is some interest in the community rather than just the status quo of trustees
[03:25:03] <prometheanfire> klondike was not running it?
[03:25:08] <antarus> ran in it
[03:25:12] <antarus> as a potential board member
[03:25:14] <robbat2> sorry, *running in it
[03:25:30] <robbat2> the Elections team gets thanks for literally running it
[03:25:54] <prometheanfire> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Elections/Trustees/202006
[03:25:59] <FreedomBear> Yes, thank you to them.
[03:26:17] <prometheanfire> quite a few election officials listed there :P
[03:26:33] <robbat2> thanks to Dabbott, Rich0, NeddySeagoon, Whissi
[03:26:37] <robbat2> and Zlogene
[03:26:41] <robbat2> so they are all in the formal logs ;-)
[03:26:44] <antarus> prometheanfire: it takes a village
[03:26:44] <prometheanfire> indeed :D
[03:26:46] <antarus> :)
[03:27:17] <antarus> please vote aye to accept the secretary's report, or nay if you have further questions or comments on it.
[03:27:20] <robbat2> aye
[03:27:25] <FreedomBear> aye
[03:28:06] <antarus> aye
[03:28:07] <prometheanfire> aye
[03:28:39] <antarus> and it is accepted.
[03:29:12] <antarus> As I said, I did not really write a presidents report. I can probably share a few words and i'll draft and send something more concrete out later next week
[03:29:29] <prometheanfire> antarus: ad lib should be fun
[03:29:58] <antarus> I want to say thanks to Robin in particular, who slaves tirelessly over our books and prometheanfire for locating a competant yet affordable CPA firm.
[03:30:36] <antarus> The financials were a problem for a long time and I think as we enter a new fiscal we are in a much position to actually do the work of the foundation that we were 1-2 years ago
[03:30:42] <antarus> and that is something to be celebrated
[03:31:37] <antarus> I think there remain a number of challanges related to teh foundations mission in terms of how we actually deploy our resources in a way that the community find acceptable and we continue to struggle to do this every year.
[03:32:12] <prometheanfire> antarus: welcome to being president :P
[03:32:14] <antarus> I'm eager for feedback from the board and the community on how to deploy the Foundation's funds, particularly now that financials are in a clearer position and we are not holding significant assets for tax purposes
[03:32:34] <FreedomBear> What does that mean? Are people not happy with how we deploy our resources?
[03:32:40] <antarus> (where tax purposes is paying back taxes and penalties, etc.)
[03:33:08] <prometheanfire> I'd suggest figuring out if we are going to re-incororate and/or go under an umbrella org first
[03:33:19] <prometheanfire> once we know that we can plan more for how to spend the funds
[03:33:33] <antarus> sure I'm just stating problems I've heard
[03:33:45] <prometheanfire> also, keeping cash in the bank is useful when funding dries up for a bit
[03:34:50] <antarus> I'm basically suggesting that in previous years, we waited for members to request funds (and we provide funds for the majority of requests)
[03:34:59] <antarus> but this is not sufficient to really drive the programs of the foundation
[03:35:05] <prometheanfire> I'd say it may be good to have a number be our goal to have as minimum in the bank, with the extra being available for 'deployment'
[03:35:07] <antarus> but its been somewhat of a struggle to build new programs
[03:35:23] <antarus> nitrokey being the most successful new program in recent times, IMHO
[03:35:37] <antarus> (this mostly includes infra, which is plausibly our longest running program)
[03:35:43] <antarus> *excludes* sorry
[03:35:55] <antarus> anyway, that will end my speech ;)
[03:36:24] <antarus> FreedomBear: to answer your question more explicitly, there have definitely been objections to foundaiton overhead (25% of funds go to paying taxes and the CPA)
[03:36:37] <antarus> FreedomBear: in addition, there have been some questions about why we don't spend more of the foundation's money
[03:37:17] <antarus> I find the former mostly unfixable (these are fixed costs) and the latter to be perhaps more challenging because of politics around resource allocation
[03:37:31] <FreedomBear> antarus: I haven't seen anyone complain about the overhead? Regardless, we all know that overhead is because of past failures.
[03:37:42] <prometheanfire> I am hesitant to mention it, but whatever the funding via residuals is called may be something to aim for
[03:38:17] <dwfreed> having 144k in cash equivalents is a lot
[03:38:21] <prometheanfire> overhead is also a fact of life, sadly we live in an entropic univerise
[03:38:33] <antarus> prometheanfire: not sure what you mean by residuals
[03:38:38] <antarus> dwfreed: I can't disagree ;)
[03:38:44] <prometheanfire> passive income
[03:38:45] <robbat2> residuals: living off the interest basically
[03:38:53] <robbat2> we aren't large enough to do that
[03:39:00] <robbat2> by some orders of magnitude
[03:39:02] <antarus> a few more decades
[03:39:03] <antarus> ;)
[03:39:11] <prometheanfire> ya, I do wonder what that number is (personally)
[03:39:37] <antarus> in educational endowments I've seen 4% bandied about
[03:39:56] <prometheanfire> so 3x what we have, ish
[03:40:07] <prometheanfire> ISH
[03:40:08] <antarus> 4% of 500k would be 20k right
[03:40:15] <antarus> napkin math
[03:40:19] <dwfreed> yes
[03:41:13] <antarus> I want to wrap up the pres report or speech as it is
[03:41:23] <antarus> I'm not going to make anyone accept my random speech
[03:41:32] <antarus> any other questions about the stuff I said? :)
[03:41:39] <prometheanfire> I can vote that it exists
[03:41:44] <antarus> lol
[03:42:17] <robbat2> vote that antarus owes a written version by 2020/09/01 ;-)
[03:42:22] <antarus> thats fine
[03:42:24] <antarus> I can commit to that
[03:42:31] <prometheanfire> robbat2: aye
[03:42:46] <FreedomBear> nay
[03:43:00] * antarus chuckles
[03:43:04] <antarus> well I vote aye
[03:43:09] <robbat2> aye ;-)
[03:43:14] <robbat2> why nay from you FreedomBear ?
[03:43:21] <antarus> done; I will provide a letter by 9/1
[03:44:12] <FreedomBear> robbat2: I would prefer about a month or so more to do it. Let the umbrella stuff settle.
[03:44:24] <robbat2> this is a report about FY2020
[03:44:28] <robbat2> not new stuff
[03:44:31] <FreedomBear> Ok
[03:44:32] * antarus nods
[03:44:36] <FreedomBear> aye then
[03:44:40] <antarus> thanks
[03:45:04] <antarus> we should now elect officers for the next year
[03:45:04] <prometheanfire> !next
[03:45:27] <antarus> President, Secretary, Treasurer ?
[03:45:50] <prometheanfire> I can stick with secretary if no one minds
[03:46:08] <FreedomBear> Can we just vote for as-is?
[03:46:19] <antarus> We can vote for status quo if that is faster
[03:46:31] <antarus> it feels somewhat dictatorial
[03:46:32] <FreedomBear> Yip
[03:46:32] <antarus> ;p
[03:46:42] <antarus> any objections to status quo officer assignments?
[03:46:45] <antarus> if so we can break them out
[03:46:49] <robbat2> no objections
[03:46:54] <FreedomBear> no objection
[03:47:03] <antarus> President: antarus Treasurer: robbat2 secretary: prometheanfire
[03:47:08] <FreedomBear> aye
[03:47:20] <prometheanfire> aye
[03:47:28] <robbat2> aye
[03:47:30] <antarus> aye
[03:47:46] <antarus> status quo accepted; I shall rule with an iron fist
[03:47:48] * antarus chuckles
[03:48:05] <prometheanfire> an iron fist is sometimes useful
[03:48:09] <antarus> https://bugs.gentoo.org/730200
[03:48:14] <antarus> AUTHORS inclusion
[03:48:24] <antarus> we have been slacking on this one a bit
[03:49:12] <prometheanfire> I vote aye to it, with a hopeful format change followon
[03:49:21] <FreedomBear> aye
[03:49:22] <antarus> robbat2: point of clarification, the bug has 2 lists; are you asking for both?
[03:49:32] <robbat2> no, only the first list
[03:49:40] <antarus> because the latter list is copyright you
[03:49:48] <antarus> is my understanding correct?
[03:49:49] <robbat2> as I note in the 2nd paragraph, my consulting contract with those parties assigned copyright to me
[03:49:52] <antarus> great
[03:50:02] <antarus> I was confused as to why you included it
[03:50:11] <antarus> aye
[03:50:17] <robbat2> because if there was a dispute, those parties would be ones to contest it
[03:50:45] <antarus> I assume you abstain for the record
[03:50:48] <robbat2> at least 3 of them no longer exist for now
[03:50:49] <antarus> but the vote passes regardless ;p
[03:50:52] <robbat2> yes, abstain
[03:50:54] <antarus> thanks
[03:51:23] <antarus> prometheanfire: you had a formatting objection?
[03:51:40] <FreedomBear> The KVP suggestion.
[03:51:44] <robbat2> prometheanfire want it to become a key -> multi-value map
[03:52:02] <FreedomBear> shouldn't block the vote to include though.
[03:52:09] <robbat2> so we know which gentoo developers are associated with a given copyright holder
[03:52:13] <antarus> I see
[03:52:25] <antarus> I'm not sure I see any particular legal barrier
[03:52:34] <antarus> feel free to discuss with community / council on the format ?
[03:52:53] * antarus hands you some knives and 3 monkeys
[03:52:56] <robbat2> bikeshed there: "Company -> Developer(s)" vs "Developer -> Company(ies)"
[03:53:24] <robbat2> or normal form
[03:53:33] <robbat2> anyway, thanks for the approval,
[03:53:34] <robbat2> next item
[03:54:32] <antarus> I've no other bugs that I am aware of
[03:54:38] <antarus> other than https://bugs.gentoo.org/736760
[03:54:45] <antarus> but afaik we are still waiting for them to discuss our application
[03:54:49] <antarus> so there is no news
[03:55:24] <FreedomBear> Yes, as SFC's website states, they consider applications once a month.
[03:55:53] <antarus> any new business?
[03:56:14] <FreedomBear> None here.
[03:56:33] <antarus> In fiscal 2020 we did not hold very many meetings and conducted many activities via email and voting on bugs
[03:56:43] <antarus> is there any objection to this practice?
[03:56:46] <robbat2> broad question: should Infra plan for large hardware renewal before or after the SFC potential changes
[03:57:15] <robbat2> not an objection, but I'd like to ensure that as many of the votes & bugs are raised via the NFP list even if they are in a bug
[03:57:35] <FreedomBear> antarus: no objection
[03:57:39] <antarus> so my strategy has been to basically file the bug and ask the list to vote publically
[03:57:43] <antarus> but the votes are on the bug
[03:57:49] <antarus> is that sufficient, or you want the votes on the list?
[03:57:54] <robbat2> votes on the bug yes
[03:58:05] <robbat2> no spoofed email ;-)
[03:58:09] <antarus> hehe
[03:58:16] <FreedomBear> robbat2: hardware being buying new physical hardware?
[03:58:36] <antarus> Yeah infra needs to replace a bunch of hardware in fiscal 2021
[03:58:54] <FreedomBear> I don't believe the timing matters... I can't think of a reason why it would.
[03:58:57] <robbat2> yes, replacing a lot of old stuff at OSL, like the switch died earlier in the year and we haven't replaced yet
[03:59:10] <antarus> robbat2: generally speaking I would prioritize operations of Gentoo over our org structure
[03:59:11] <FreedomBear> Unless robbat2 doesn't want to do the paperwork :)
[03:59:20] <antarus> haha
[03:59:32] <robbat2> hey, it's less paperwork to do the purchases before we join SFC
[03:59:52] <antarus> I want to try to keep it to an hour; I have one remaining question
[03:59:53] <robbat2> (i've seen their reimbursement/purchasing chain before)
[04:00:01] <antarus> our AWS credits expire in 60 days
[04:00:21] <robbat2> AWS in unofficial email said they would renew them, but I haven't seen a hard commit on that
[04:00:23] <antarus> I'd preferably like to renew; I've sent one mail to that effect IIRC (I need to check my logs)
[04:00:41] <antarus> the previous program manager left
[04:00:45] <antarus> I need to follow up
[04:00:59] <robbat2> i have further contacts there if we don't get responses
[04:01:03] <antarus> ok
[04:01:04] * FreedomBear waits on question.
[04:01:32] <antarus> our AWS spend ignoring cloudfront is probably in the 2-3k / year range right now
[04:01:45] <antarus> and while we can turn it all off to save money i owuld prefer to renew our program with them
[04:01:48] <antarus> thats it
[04:01:51] <antarus> FreedomBear: you are up
[04:02:15] <FreedomBear> antarus: why should we renew for that 2-3k?
[04:02:21] <FreedomBear> What does AWS do for us?
[04:02:37] <antarus> They give us 25,000$ in free cloud stuff
[04:02:39] <antarus> mostly ;)
[04:02:58] <robbat2> of which we only spent $2-3k this year, excluding the cloudfront CDN experiement to measure distfiles.gentoo.org
[04:03:00] <FreedomBear> What does that do for Gentoo?
[04:03:15] <robbat2> the main gain is very fast arm64 VMs
[04:03:15] <antarus> we archive data there, and we have amd64 and arm boxes there; afaik
[04:03:30] <robbat2> we were already paying for S3 & glacier storage before the program
[04:03:52] <FreedomBear> robbat2: antarus: thanks. Just wanted the reason stated publically FTR.
[04:03:54] <antarus> I believe there is also another effort to source other arm gear by the arm team
[04:03:57] <antarus> FreedomBear: no worries
[04:04:05] * FreedomBear aye
[04:04:23] <robbat2> prior to the AWS open source program, we spent ~$100/year on S3+Glacier
[04:04:31] <FreedomBear> (for continuing the program)
[04:05:18] <antarus> any other business?
[04:05:39] <FreedomBear> None from me.
[04:05:44] <robbat2> i updated the activity tracker page
[04:05:46] <prometheanfire> non
[04:05:53] <robbat2> nil from me
[04:05:56] <antarus> oh right we have to file with the state again
[04:05:57] <antarus> ;)
[04:06:08] <antarus> prometheanfire: I've moved again
[04:06:13] <antarus> if they need my new details lmk
[04:06:18] <robbat2> yeah, I moved house as well
[04:06:37] <robbat2> for the records, can all trustees please email their current address to trustees@
[04:06:42] <robbat2> address, phone number
[04:06:46] <antarus> can do
[04:07:03] <FreedomBear> Wilco
[04:07:04] <robbat2> alicef: ^^ when you review scrollback
[04:07:33] <antarus> robbat2: thanks for updating the tracker
[04:07:41] * antarus grabs the gavel
[04:07:47] <antarus> final call for business
[04:08:00] <robbat2> open floor ;-)
[04:08:17] <antarus> this is not in the agenda! ;p
[04:08:25] <antarus> any comments from the floor?
[04:08:31] <robbat2> it is in the agenda!
[04:08:35] <prometheanfire> kk
[04:08:37] <robbat2> right after cleanup ;-)
[04:08:47] <antarus> pft
[04:09:26] <antarus> I will drop a "has anyone spoken to the e.V lately"
[04:09:39] <antarus> but i dunno how them and us and something like the SFC merge might all go down
[04:09:50] <antarus> but I'll gavel the meeting closed before the commentary starts! ;p
[04:10:10] * antarus gavels thusly
[04:10:17] <antarus> ladies and gents thanks for a great fiscal 2020
[04:10:24] <FreedomBear> Not really sure what the e.V does for us today?
[04:10:33] <antarus> for the foundaiton, nothing
[04:10:39] <FreedomBear> For Gentoo bruh.
[04:10:54] <antarus> unsure, it was, afaik, having some problems for some years
[04:10:57] <antarus> i thought Whissi runs it now
[04:11:30] <antarus> last time I checked (2013 ish) the e.V. helped people show up at confs and sold gentoo stuff (stickers, etc)
[04:11:38] <FreedomBear> Not really sure a merger matters either.
[04:11:55] <FreedomBear> All the copyright, IP, etc is in the foundation, yea?
[04:12:03] <antarus> yes
[04:12:37] <antarus> it was also a thought that like, if the e.V. was doing a bunch of food
[04:12:39] <antarus> er good*
[04:12:45] <antarus> we could also just support them
[04:12:54] <antarus> we are still fairly america centric in terms of board members
[04:12:56] <FreedomBear> Yea, definitely for supporting them.
[04:13:05] <antarus> but it was just an idea ;)
[04:13:12] * antarus has to go now
[04:13:13] * antarus waves
[04:13:18] <FreedomBear> Everyone is free to run for the board.
[04:13:26] * FreedomBear is off too
[04:14:30] <robbat2> cya
[04:16:54] <prometheanfire> cya