Add new meeting log and kde summary, missing qt for now, will complete it later.

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+22:00 (@alexxy) !time
+22:00 (Willikins) alexxy: Europe - Moscow - Thu May 21 23:00 MSD
+22:00 (@alexxy) heh
+22:00 (@scarabeus) roll-call slackers
+22:00 (+wired) w000t
+22:00 (@alexxy) time to start
+22:00 (@scarabeus) !herd kde
+22:00 (@alexxy) =)
+22:00 (Willikins) (kde) alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, patrick, scarabeus, tampakrap, tgurr
+22:00 (+wired) meh
+22:00 (+wired) hopefully last meeting im not in that list
+22:00 (dagger) huh
+22:00 (+wired) :D
+22:00 (@alexxy) time to start meeting
+22:00 (nirbheek) hurr hurr
+22:00 (@scarabeus) Time to start meting :D
+22:00 (@alexxy) who is here?
+22:00  -> tampakrap
+22:00 (@hwoarang) wait!
+22:00 (nirbheek) Time to start mating!
+22:00 -!- Pesa [n=Pesa@bluemchen.kde.org] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:00 (@hwoarang) !herd qt
+22:00 (dagger) alexxy: I'm not here :)
+22:00 (@hwoarang) ladies?
+22:01 (dagger) hwoarang: lol
+22:01 (Willikins) (qt) carlo, hwoarang, tampakrap, yngwin
+22:01 (Gentle) is the libusb blocker ( http://dpaste.com/46414/ ) known? How to best avoid it?
+22:01 (nirbheek) !herd gnome
+22:01 (Willikins) (gnome) dang, eva, ford_prefect, leio, nirbheek, remi
+22:01 (+wired) that list as well
+22:01 (nirbheek) Low attendance, hmmm.
+22:01 (@hwoarang) Pesa: dont hide , come over here
+22:01 (+wired) nirbheek: lolz
+22:01 (Pesa) i'm here, just in time :D
+22:01 (@scarabeus) bonsaikitten: you too, are you around?
+22:01 (@bonsaikitten) no, I'm a square
+22:01 -!- mode/#gentoo-kde [+vvvv papillon81 Phlogi _Phlogi Civil] by scarabeus
+22:01 (@alexxy) bonsaikitten: or you square today?
+22:01 (@bonsaikitten) :)
+22:01 (nirbheek) bonsaikitten, lrn2read vowels
+22:02 (@scarabeus) :D
+22:02 (nirbheek) So, wait, this is it? This is the meeting?
+22:02 (@scarabeus) so we are missing few devs, and importantly our lead
+22:02 (nirbheek) rollcall followed by silence?
+22:02 (+krytzz) im a triforce
+22:03 (cvandonderen) I want to join too! :-D:-P
+22:03 (@alexxy) jmbsvicetto: !!!!!
+22:03 (dagger) should I *stab* him?
+22:03 (+wired) nirbheek: our meetings happen in brainwave levels :P
+22:03 (@hwoarang) yngwin_: !!
+22:03 (+wired) the leads are away
+22:03 (@alexxy) Civil: !
+22:03 (@hwoarang) slacking leaders :D
+22:03 (+wired) maybe they went out for beers
+22:03 (+wired) :D
+22:03 (@alexxy) mine beer is near me
+22:03 (@alexxy) =)
+22:04 (@hwoarang) +1
+22:04 (@scarabeus) mine too :]
+22:04 (@scarabeus) ok
+22:04 (+Civil) alexxy, ?
+22:04 (@hwoarang) o_0
+22:04 (+wired) i see
+22:04 (dagger) I've got tonic with me (no without gin)
+22:04 (@yngwin_) present
+22:04 (@hwoarang) !! YEY!!
+22:04 (+wired) beer meeting this will be
+22:04 -!- yngwin_ is now known as yngwin
+22:04 (+wired) yngwin: :D
+22:04 (spatz) for me? you shouldn't have :p
+22:04  -> papillon81 is here
+22:04  -> Civil is here
+22:04 -!- hwoarang topic of #gentoo-kde ->> Gentoo KDE | meeting 21.5. 19:00 UTC | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | p.keywords: http://xrl.us/kdekeyw | Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help? http://tinyurl.com/gktodo | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | Want to test KDE4 on a kvm? http://tinyurl.com/by7tv3 | KDE 4.2.87in kde-testing! | SitRep: SNAFU | Beer meeting in
+22:04 (@hwoarang) stupid topic
+22:04 -!- joost_op [n=joost@86.92.194.222] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:04 (+wired) hwoarang: you fail it
+22:05  -> nirbheek is here
+22:05 (joost_op) evening
+22:05 (@scarabeus) nirbheek: you want really to be listed on the roll-call?
+22:05 -!- mode/#gentoo-kde [+v spatz] by yngwin
+22:05  -> nirbheek does not know why he is here except maybe for espionage and sabotage
+22:05 (@scarabeus) nirbheek: dont you fear other gnomies would burn you as witch
+22:05  -> reavertm around
+22:05 -!- mode/#gentoo-kde [+v Pesa] by yngwin
+22:05 (nirbheek) scarabeus, they're too busy slacking :p
+22:05 (@scarabeus) ok
+22:05 (@scarabeus) i think better it wont get
+22:05 (@scarabeus) most of us is here
+22:05 (@hwoarang) :D
+22:06 (+wired) yodabeus
+22:06 (@scarabeus) :D
+22:06 (@scarabeus) ok somebody must do the log
+22:06 (+reavertm) nirbheek: we'll talk about some desktop file related stuff that touches gnome as well, so stay here :)
+22:06 (@scarabeus) i still didnt find how todo it on quassel
+22:06 (+wired) i'm logging
+22:06 (@scarabeus) great
+22:06 (@hwoarang) nice
+22:06 (nirbheek) reavertm, kewl
+22:06 (@scarabeus) so anyone has something to the topic list we have on the mail, or we should start right away with it?
+22:07 (cvandonderen) scarabeus: you can just copy-paste it from the backlog
+22:07 (@tampakrap) why not wait 10 minutes for others?
+22:07 (@scarabeus) cvandonderen: not convinient
+22:07  -> papillon81 has got no mail
+22:07 (cvandonderen) scarabeus: we did it last time for a kde.org meeting ;-)
+22:07 (@scarabeus) tampakrap: what others, only boss and cryos is missing
+22:07 -!- Red_Devil [n=red@lounge.datux.nl] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+22:07 (@tampakrap) boss then
+22:07  -> jokey enters spectator mode
+22:08 (nirbheek) jokey, YESH
+22:08 (nirbheek) I finally catch you
+22:08 -!- _Phlogi [n=quassel@38-77.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+22:08 (+reavertm) http://dpaste.com/46416/ - meeting agenda
+22:08 (+papillon81) reavertm: thanks
+22:08 (@scarabeus) http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c5211b31c0fbff058bc767e3ac8ef077.xml
+22:08 (@scarabeus) for those whom dont like pastebins
+22:09 (@yngwin) scarabeus: carlo is missing too
+22:09  -> lxnay sniffs packets from now
+22:09 (@scarabeus) yngwin: he will be allways missing
+22:09 (@yngwin) i know, but i consider this an offence
+22:09 (@scarabeus) well he does not reply to mine mails either
+22:10 (@scarabeus) ok i will write it to summary and let it to jorge to sort out :P
+22:10 (@yngwin) yes please
+22:10 (@hwoarang) no
+22:10 (+reavertm) a'ka "removing dead members" ?
+22:10 (@hwoarang) i ve talked to jorge before 2-3 days
+22:10 (cvandonderen) I could do the kde4 guide....
+22:10 (@hwoarang) he said it is up to qt herd to deal with him
+22:10 (@hwoarang) :)
+22:10 (@yngwin) ok
+22:10 (cvandonderen) I'm new to Gentoo, so I can do it based on experiences encontered
+22:10 (@yngwin) i'll take care of it then
+22:11 (@hwoarang) ok
+22:11  -> cryos|work wife is having a baby in a few weeks - he may not be present for the next few meetings. Sorry!
+22:11 -!- kdeR [n=wired@musici.static.otenet.gr] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:11 (@hwoarang) o_0
+22:11 (@hwoarang) new developer :D
+22:11 (@tampakrap) congratulations!
+22:11 (@yngwin) good luck with that
+22:11 (+krytzz) haha
+22:11 (@scarabeus) cryos|work: wow, cool, enjoy the little slacker, be sure you wont be sleeping either :]
+22:11 (@yngwin) :)
+22:12 (+krytzz) yeah congratulations
+22:12 (dagger) cryos|work: grats to you and your mrs dude :)
+22:12 (@hwoarang) \o/ congrats cryos|work :)
+22:12 (@cryos|work) Thanks - expecting lots of ups and downs over the next few months. Today has been hectic...
+22:12 (@cryos|work) US time zone doesn't help me get here either...
+22:12 (+wired) cryos|work: congrats =]
+22:12 (@alexxy) he he =) congratulations cryos|work =)
+22:13 (@jmbsvicetto) Hello
+22:13 (jokey) new dev training++
+22:13 (dagger) yaay jmbsvicetto!
+22:13 (+krytzz) yay chef
+22:13 (+wired) jmbsvicetto: leader!
+22:13 (@hwoarang) :)
+22:13 (+wired) w00t
+22:13 (@jmbsvicetto) Sorry guys, but I just sat down at work. I've been working up until now
+22:13 (@hwoarang) no worries
+22:13 (@hwoarang) i bet we are about to break a record today
+22:13 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: the network magic? :]
+22:14 (lxnay) jmbsvicetto: helloes
+22:14 (@scarabeus) ok i know we all can say hello for next 20 minutes, but lets get started :]
+22:14 (@scarabeus) topic 1; doc handling
+22:14 (@scarabeus) reavertm: anything changed on that subject?
+22:14 (nirbheek) <whew<
+22:15 (@scarabeus) the current state is we have one doc useflag
+22:15 (@scarabeus) and some package install under that user documentation and api documentation
+22:15 (@scarabeus) so we decided to use doc useflag for user documentation
+22:15 -!- Dont_Panic [n=dontpani@adsl-230-54-128.mob.bellsouth.net] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:15 (@scarabeus) and for specified packages with api-doc we will create new useflag
+22:15 (nirbheek) mumble, mumble, what about packages that just rebuild the docs?
+22:15 (nirbheek) And unconditionally install docs?
+22:15 (@jmbsvicetto) cryos|work: congrats
+22:15 (@scarabeus) nirbheek: we dont have such :]
+22:16 (+reavertm) I support idea of leaving 'doc' for handbooks and introduce some other useflag when there's apidocs along with use documentation
+22:16 (@cryos|work) Thanks jmbsvicetto :P
+22:16 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: getting ready for that
+22:16 (@scarabeus) reavertm: so we agree on that :]
+22:16 (nirbheek) scarabeus, but hypothetically, if you guys did, what would you do :p
+22:16 (+krytzz) nirbheek slap upstream
+22:16 (@jmbsvicetto) Hi everyone
+22:16 (nirbheek) krytzz, difficult to slap entire gnome :p
+22:16 (joost_op) right now compile kdelibs +doc results in a 268MB vs 48MB package
+22:16 (nirbheek) jmbsvicetto, HELLO.
+22:16 (@scarabeus) so what would be the apidoc useflag
+22:17 (+reavertm) same for kdepimlibs
+22:17 (@scarabeus) api-doc apidoc
+22:17 (@scarabeus) anything else?
+22:17 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: By default on Gentoo, user docs should be installed
+22:17 (@scarabeus) suggestions ...
+22:17 (cvandonderen) and will the apidoc useflag only be for kde, or Gentoo-wide?
+22:17 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: they are large
+22:17 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: Only api / dev docs / examples should be conditional on use flags
+22:17 (+reavertm) jmbsvicetto: hmm
+22:17 (+wired) we could keep useflag for user docs but + it
+22:17 (+reavertm) well, that's the way as well
+22:18 (@scarabeus) sounds reasonable
+22:18 (@scarabeus) +doc on kde-base
+22:18 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus / reavertm: If they are large, they fit with the other docs - thus should depend on a use flag
+22:18 (+reavertm) nirbheek: how do you have it on gnome?
+22:18 (@jmbsvicetto) Gentoo does allow for exceptions ;)
+22:18 (nirbheek) reavertm, we ignore the problem entirely =p
+22:18 (+wired) lolz
+22:18 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: well then lets invent apidoc
+22:18 (@jmbsvicetto) nirbheek: hehe
+22:18 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: docs are handled fine
+22:18 (cvandonderen) and then make it kde-docs or something, because Java installs apidoc with doc too
+22:18 (@scarabeus) but as joost said
+22:18 (@scarabeus) 268 mb vs 48 mb
+22:18 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: what fills those 268MB ?
+22:19 (nirbheek) docsdammitwhatelse
+22:19 (@yngwin) maybe a discussion on dev ml is warranted, about global apidoc useflag
+22:19 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: api documentation
+22:19 (@scarabeus) yngwin: i hate writing on -dev
+22:19 (@scarabeus) yngwin: everything that is not anouncement turns to flame
+22:19 (joost_op) for users having +doc in their make.conf, its not what they wanted
+22:19 (lxnay) scarabeus: ;) true
+22:19 (@yngwin) well, thats the official channel...
+22:19 (+reavertm) if gentoo policy is to install docs by default, maybe we should drop 'doc' useflag for handbooks then
+22:20 (+wired) scarabeus: it works if you just ignore flame[baits]
+22:20 (nirbheek) scarabeus, ignore all replies is the solution
+22:20 (@scarabeus) reavertm: now when it finaly works? ;]
+22:20 -!- Devrethman [i=mpd@D-128-208-118-158.dhcp4.washington.edu] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+22:20 (@scarabeus) reavertm: i would go with +doc
+22:20 (+wired) nah it should be optional, its gentoo
+22:20 (+krytzz) me too scarabeus
+22:20 (+spatz) if doc should be enabled by default then it should be done in the profile
+22:20 (+wired) +doc sounds best
+22:20 (@yngwin) no!
+22:20 (+krytzz) why not
+22:20 (@hwoarang) i dont like +doc
+22:20 (+reavertm) not in profile
+22:20 (@alexxy) heh ; to me seems better to use doc for user docs
+22:20 (dagger) +doc sounds the best. If you want, you can disable it
+22:20 (nirbheek) spatz, that results in too many circular deps
+22:20 (@scarabeus) in kde-base packages
+22:20 (@yngwin) not in profile
+22:20 (+reavertm) better +doc per ebuild
+22:20 (@scarabeus) yes per ebuild
+22:21 (nirbheek) spatz, it's officially unsupported by Gentoo for global enabling
+22:21 (@scarabeus) and the apidoc i will sum up some mail then
+22:21 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: But is it only api documentation or the handbook as well?
+22:21 (+reavertm) jmbsvicetto: we need to distinguish them where they are both
+22:21 (+reavertm) (like in kdelibs)
+22:21 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: +doc for documetnation only
+22:21 (+reavertm) +doc whould be just for handbooks
+22:21 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: apidoc or sth for api doc
+22:21  -> yngwin goes off to set -doc in make.conf
+22:21 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: where we ask on -dev for suggestions
+22:22 (@scarabeus) yngwin: :D
+22:22 (@yngwin) i can use internet thankyouverymuch
+22:22 (dagger) yngwin: how about kde-base/* -doc :)
+22:22 (@jmbsvicetto) ok, let me ask again. I'm not talking about use flags yet. I'm just trying to undestand what type of docs we have and an approximate size
+22:22 -!- Enrico|ITA| [n=quassel@host86-47-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:22 (@yngwin) dagger: if only portage would support that
+22:22 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: the doc is 5-10megs
+22:22 (@scarabeus) per package
+22:22 (dagger) yngwin: ouch. I though it does
+22:22 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: apidoc is big crap
+22:22 (@jmbsvicetto) yngwin: It does, if you change the order for inheritance ;)
+22:23 (@yngwin) huh?
+22:23 (joost_op) jmbsvicetto, it looks like right now on kdelibs with +doc it generates an insane size on the disc.. for no clear reason..
+22:23 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: So 5-10MB for handbook and possible >100MB for the rest?
+22:23 (@scarabeus) y
+22:23 (@scarabeus) so growth in total about +500meg now
+22:23 (@alexxy) ohh
+22:23 (@alexxy) realy big
+22:23 (dagger) that's quite extensive
+22:23  -> scarabeus already has -doc in use
+22:23 (@jmbsvicetto) yngwin: It's possible to affect the way portage treats the use flags - but I'll leave that for another time
+22:24 (@yngwin) jmbsvicetto: we were talking about wildcard support
+22:24 (@jmbsvicetto) Ah, sorry. I -meant you were talking about -* default use flags
+22:24 (+reavertm) or rather per-category USE flags
+22:24 (@jmbsvicetto) s/-meant/thought/
+22:25 (+reavertm) anyway, we're deviating a bit from the topic
+22:25 (@scarabeus) bit
+22:25 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: In that case, let's talk about it in the dev ml
+22:25 (@scarabeus) ok
+22:25 (@scarabeus) i will sent that mail
+22:25 (+reavertm) so we leave kdelibs alone for now or invent use flag for apidocs?
+22:25 (@scarabeus) reavertm: first -dev
+22:25 (@scarabeus) reavertm: then we will do whole thing
+22:25 (@scarabeus) for now waiting on the mail
+22:26 (+reavertm) it will take forever
+22:26 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: Personally I would suggest we install handbook by default (handbook use flag) and leave the doc use flag for the rest (disabled by default)
+22:26 (@scarabeus) reavertm: i give them 7 days
+22:26 (+reavertm) we can rename USE flag anytime
+22:26 (+reavertm) (and play with it in overlay)
+22:26 (@scarabeus) pple would tear us apart :D
+22:26 (@scarabeus) if we move back to handbook D:
+22:26 (+wired) lol
+22:26 (+reavertm) pple can kill our asses - who does the work - decides
+22:26 (@alexxy) he he =)
+22:26 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: +handbook for user docs ;)
+22:26 (@alexxy) someone would forced to rebuild whole kde
+22:26 (nirbheek) ouch
+22:26 (joost_op) yeah it makes more sense..
+22:26 (+reavertm) jmbsvicetto: +handbook or +doc?
+22:27 (joost_op) (o;
+22:27 (@jmbsvicetto) My proposal would be +handbook for handbook and doc for the rest
+22:27 (+wired) alexxy: doesn't portage profile/updates cover user flag changes?
+22:27 (@scarabeus) --newuse
+22:27 (+reavertm) (I'd like to rename +100 ebuilds and eclass)
+22:27 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: meaning eapi docs
+22:27 (@scarabeus) pple would hate us
+22:27 (joost_op) since +doc right now generates the handbook
+22:27 (+wired) use*
+22:27 (@jmbsvicetto) s/eapi/api/
+22:27 (joost_op) keeping kdelibs out of it
+22:27 (@alexxy) wired: no =)
+22:27 (+reavertm) (i mena I woundn't lke to rename so many use flags...)
+22:28 (@jmbsvicetto) We can do any changes in the use flags for 4.3
+22:28 (Kuja^) wired: it only handles package renames afaik
+22:28 (+wired) meh
+22:28 -!- BarbieGentoo-er is now known as Tina-
+22:28 (@scarabeus) i agree with reaver, we need some test suicider who will do it, with apidoc we have 2 packages to change
+22:28 -!- jmbsvicetto topic of #gentoo-kde ->> Gentoo KDE | meeting: Now | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | p.keywords: http://xrl.us/kdekeyw | Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help? http://tinyurl.com/gktodo | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | Want to test KDE4 on a kvm? http://tinyurl.com/by7tv3 | KDE 4.2.87in kde-testing! | SitRep: SNAFU
+22:29 (@scarabeus) with handbook we have to touch all
+22:29 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: The handbook should be dealt with in the eclasses, imo
+22:29 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: ok but it will be todo for 4.3
+22:29 (+reavertm) it's already dealt there, but ebuilds need to fixed as well
+22:29 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: that's my opinion
+22:29 (@scarabeus) or 4.4
+22:29 (@scarabeus) :D
+22:30 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: But you don't have to agree with me ;)
+22:30 (joost_op) i'd address it to 4.4
+22:30 (joost_op) but thats just my ho
+22:30 (@scarabeus) well i am just lazy, cause it is annoying work
+22:30 -!- ehustad [n=espen@ti511220a080-1003.bb.online.no] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:30 (@scarabeus) go throught all ebuilds and manualy check them
+22:30 (@scarabeus) there is 250 of them
+22:30 (@scarabeus) and pple still commit to them
+22:30 (@scarabeus) so merge failitures
+22:30 (@scarabeus) AAGHR
+22:30 (dagger) scarabeus: make it 40 each :)
+22:31 -!- UT2K3 [n=UT2K3@one.lanrena.ilk.de] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:31  -> lxnay can do annoying work
+22:31 (@scarabeus) lxnay: you are realy willing to do it?
+22:32  -> lxnay hides
+22:32 (lxnay) ;)
+22:32 (lxnay) well we can talk about it
+22:32 (@scarabeus) as you wish
+22:32 (joost_op) lxnay, hahaha leave it to scarabeus
+22:32 (lxnay) but sure
+22:32 (joost_op) we have enough todo
+22:32 (lxnay) i can help out
+22:32  -> joost_op grins
+22:32 (@scarabeus) :]
+22:32 (@scarabeus) :D
+22:32 (+reavertm) I'd like to see how it's handled elsewhere 1st
+22:32 (@scarabeus) reavertm: by elsewhere you mean?
+22:33 (UT2K3) hi guys i upgraded to kde-4.3 and now the most icons are missing
+22:33 (@jmbsvicetto) ok, so we'll use the dev ml to discuss the split between the documentation and the use flags for it. Anyone objects?
+22:33 (@jmbsvicetto) UT2K3: We're in the middle of a meeting, please leave it for after the meeting
+22:33 (UT2K3) ok
+22:33 (lxnay) anything that falls into split attracts me, split and reign
+22:34 (+reavertm) elsewhere, gnome (nirbheek by ignoring problem you mean installing everything provided by autoconf not caring whether docs are there or not?), openoffice, whatever
+22:34 (nirbheek) reavertm, yeah, pretty much
+22:34 (@scarabeus) reavertm: mostly they dont care
+22:34 (nirbheek) the doc use-flag on gnome packages rebuilds the docs
+22:34 (nirbheek) But even that's inconsistent for a few packages
+22:35 (nirbheek) (some packages don't use gtk-doc)
+22:35 (nirbheek) Oh, and these are api docs :p
+22:35 (nirbheek) ls /usr/share/gtk-doc/html
+22:35 (@jmbsvicetto) hmm, so do we want to move that discussion to the dev ml?
+22:36  -> jmbsvicetto looks at the clock
+22:36 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: jup
+22:36 (+reavertm) anyway if 'doc' is for developer documentation, we need new USE flag for handbooks
+22:36 (@scarabeus) end of this topic :]
+22:36 (@jmbsvicetto) ;)
+22:36 (@jmbsvicetto) KDE3?
+22:36 (@scarabeus) that was FUBAR
+22:36 (@scarabeus) total one
+22:36 (@scarabeus) when we moved it to the tree
+22:36 (@scarabeus) many things broke
+22:36 -!- jmbsvicetto topic of #gentoo-kde ->> Gentoo KDE | meeting: Now - KDE3 | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | p.keywords: http://xrl.us/kdekeyw | Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help? http://tinyurl.com/gktodo | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | Want to test KDE4 on a kvm? http://tinyurl.com/by7tv3 | KDE 4.2.87in kde-testing! | SitRep: SNAFU
+22:37 (@scarabeus) even now it is not finished
+22:37 (@tampakrap) not exactly
+22:37 (+Pesa) please try to avoid the gtk-doc mess ;)
+22:37 (@tampakrap) we knew from the beginning that were was going to be a mess with kde3 misc apps
+22:37 (@jmbsvicetto) Well, we also have gcc-4.4 and glibc-2.10 joining the *fun*
+22:37 (Mirrakor) :)
+22:37 (+reavertm) kde3, well, the state is kdelibs is hacked to replace some entries of .desktop files on the fly to make kde4 apps (even those from kdeprefix) distinguished (and runnable)
+22:37 (+wired) btw kdelibs3 -r6 just failed on me
+22:37 (+reavertm) but...
+22:38 (+wired) probably due to glibc or gcc =]
+22:38 -!- cvandonderen [n=casper@212-182-159-91.ip.telfort.nl] <- quit ["leaving"]
+22:38 (+wired) kde3 session lists all -kdeprefix kde4 apps in menu now properly
+22:38 (@jmbsvicetto) Just a quick point, I think we should open a tracker bug about gcc-4.4 and another about glibc-2.10 breakages with KDE apps
+22:38 (@alexxy) yep =) i use gcc 4.4 and new glibc
+22:38 (+reavertm) the problem is - not all kde4 executables want to work within kde3 (or any non kde4) session
+22:39 (@scarabeus) reavertm: i think that pple will have to live with it
+22:39 (+wired) reavertm: actually all kde4 apps i tested worked in kde3 session
+22:39 (+wired) reavertm: always -kdeprefix
+22:39 (@scarabeus) with +kdeprefix i know it is evil
+22:39 (+reavertm) wired: install 4.2 in kdeprefix and live in kdeprefix as well (so you have two kde4 releases in kdepredfx) and install kde3
+22:39 (@scarabeus) but it wont work correctly so i think kde3 should not see it at all
+22:39 (+wired) kdeprefix isn't supported atm
+22:39 (+reavertm) troubles start there
+22:40 (+wired) the patch doesn't even care
+22:40 (@scarabeus) and we should focus on making the kde3 misc apps revbumped and stabled
+22:40 (+reavertm) wired: looked at my patch?
+22:40 (+reavertm) my patch does care :)
+22:40 (@scarabeus) reavertm: i know you patched it, simple, just revert it
+22:40 (+wired) haven't seen your patch
+22:40 (+krytzz) i think who uses kde3 and kdeprefix doesnt deserve better :p
+22:40 (+reavertm) well, it works with -kdeprefix as well
+22:40 (@scarabeus) one +kdeprefix version never saw other +kdeprefix one
+22:40 (@scarabeus) so...
+22:40 -!- UT2K3 [n=UT2K3@one.lanrena.ilk.de] <- quit ["Bambus> frei nach dem motto: was ist besser als 14? 2 x 7 :o"]
+22:40 (+wired) reavertm: does it work or not then?
+22:40 (+reavertm) the point is - there's other approach
+22:41 -!- ehustad_ [n=espen@ti511220a080-1003.bb.online.no] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+22:41 (+reavertm) wired: patch works, but just replacing those is not sufficient to run kde4 apps  (kde 4.2 apps) within kde3
+22:41 (+wired) well no
+22:41 (+reavertm) they try to load oxygen theme from live kde
+22:41 (+wired) kde4 kdeprefix apps will need a wrapper script
+22:41 (+reavertm) that's issue that needs to be resolved
+22:41 (+wired) just as kde3 apps need kde3 wrapper script in kde4
+22:41 (+reavertm) that's stupid anyway
+22:42 (+reavertm) let me check wrapper
+22:42 (+papillon81) what is the main issue behind the kde3 topic that needs to be discussed here?
+22:43 (+wired) having all stuff available in all menus
+22:43 (+papillon81) k
+22:43 (@tampakrap) ok apart from that
+22:43 (+reavertm) wrapper doesn't fix this
+22:43 (+reavertm) so anyway
+22:43 (+reavertm) new idea is to modify .desktop files directly
+22:43 (@tampakrap) i started opening stabilization bugs for various kde3 apps
+22:44 (+reavertm) substitute paths with absolute ones, add suffixes to names to make it distinguished etc
+22:44 (@tampakrap) i think monolithics can be masked and 3.5.10 can go to stabilization since 3.5.9 is dead
+22:44 (@yngwin) ah that reminds me, are we deprecating arts as per bug 270575 ?
+22:44 (Willikins) yngwin: https://bugs.gentoo.org/270575 "Dropping USE="arts" and USE="esd""; Gentoo Linux, Applications; NEW; ssuominen@g.o:qa@g.o
+22:44 (+reavertm) i alrady started working on desktop-file-edit util (in desktop-file-utils, maybe it will be added there sometime)
+22:44 (@scarabeus) we should
+22:45 (@hwoarang) at last :)
+22:45 (@yngwin) i think we can just remove arts support in 3.5.10
+22:45 (@scarabeus) yup that would be smart
+22:45 (@tampakrap) can arts be safely disabled? it needs testing
+22:45 (@scarabeus) remove arts support in 3.5.10
+22:45 (@yngwin) but we should check stable tree for packages requiring arts, if any
+22:45 (@scarabeus) tampakrap: actualy more breakages is arts enabled
+22:45 (+reavertm) nirbheek: you're not going to hack .desktop files loader in gnome to make kde4 apps (from multiple prefixes) not seen as duplicates?
+22:45 (@scarabeus) tampakrap: it is more question, can we affort supporting arts
+22:45 (+papillon81) lol
+22:46 (@bonsaikitten) kill it with fire
+22:46 (@bonsaikitten) then kill it again until it is dead
+22:46 -!- gengor|lunch is now known as gengor
+22:46 (+wired) lol
+22:46  -> papillon81 has arts disabled since ages
+22:46 (nirbheek) reavertm, why should they not be shown as duplicates?
+22:47 (nirbheek) (I'm unfamliar with exactly how kde4 prefixes work)
+22:47 (+reavertm) if you have kde4.2 in /usr/kde/4.2 and /usr/kde/live - you'll get two identical "Text editor" icons lanching same app
+22:47 (+reavertm) (the one that is 1rst in PATH
+22:48 (@yngwin) kde4 installs vim?
+22:48 (@hwoarang) lol :P
+22:48 (@yngwin) "text editor" ...
+22:48 (+reavertm) kwrite
+22:48 (nirbheek) reavertm, I'm confused, how can two paths in PATH cause duplicate .desktops?
+22:48 (Enrico|ITA|) yngwin: kde4 rocks, vim rocks so they pull in each other :D
+22:48 -!- jkt| [n=jkt@gentoo/developer/jkt] <- quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
+22:49 (@scarabeus) reavertm: i still think it is just wasting time
+22:49 (@scarabeus) reavertm: just forget about some +kdeprefix
+22:49 (@scarabeus) and problem is solved
+22:49 (@scarabeus) really
+22:49 (@scarabeus) we need it stable
+22:49 (@scarabeus) for stabling kde4
+22:49 (@yngwin) yeah, dont make it more complicated than necessary
+22:49 (@scarabeus) then it will be done in 7 months
+22:49 (@scarabeus) s/done/gone
+22:49 (+reavertm) then there's no point in exporting XDG_DATA_DIRS for kdeprefixed installs
+22:49 (nirbheek) Oh, I see
+22:49 (nirbheek) _that_ way
+22:49 (@alexxy) scarabeus: thats why i suggest to mask kdeprefix from regular users
+22:50 (@yngwin) i think once kde4 is in stable, there will be few kde3 users
+22:50 (nirbheek) reavertm, yes, plz2don't export prefixed installs (except for default prefix?)
+22:50 (+papillon81) also think about the issue with networkmanager-applet concerning different paths
+22:50 (@scarabeus) papillon81: later later
+22:50 (@scarabeus) now we are on kde3
+22:50 (@scarabeus) :]
+22:50 (+reavertm) but it can be done :P
+22:50 (@scarabeus) reavertm: can and must are 2 things
+22:50 (@scarabeus) reavertm: and we have other things we need to have done
+22:50 (@scarabeus) which are actualy more important than this
+22:51 (+wired) if user has kdeprefix
+22:51 (nirbheek) You guys have too much time and manpower :p
+22:51 (+wired) we should just export
+22:51 (@scarabeus) if user has kdeprefix, we dont bother with kde3
+22:51 (+wired) the ... higehr version one maybe?
+22:51 -!- Sho_ [n=EHS1@kde/hein] <- quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
+22:51 (+wired) in XDG_DATA_DIRS
+22:51 (+reavertm) there is a bug already - "kde4 apps not shown in gnome" or whatever
+22:51 -!- Sho_ [n=EHS1@kde/hein] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:51 (@scarabeus) reavertm: yep that is other thing, and that can be handled by, newest ap win
+22:51 (+reavertm) (or the other way around?)
+22:52 (@scarabeus) kde4 apps in gnome
+22:52 (+wired) if user has -kdeprefix installed, only that one shows in other DEs, if he has only +kdeprefix then grab newer version (or stabler, whatever)
+22:52 (@scarabeus) yep
+22:52 (@scarabeus) but dont bother with it on kde3
+22:52 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: we can't mask 3.5.9 monos until we get 3.5.10 marked stable
+22:52 (@hwoarang) afaik there was another situation that kde3 apps didnt show on kde4 session
+22:52 (+reavertm) what you have just written - how exactly are you going to implement?
+22:53 (+reavertm) espeically "if he has only +kdeprefix then grab newer version (or stabler, whatever)" part
+22:53 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: That would cause issues for stable users
+22:54 (+wired) reavertm: check in /etc/env.d/... ?
+22:55 (@scarabeus) ok for kde3 i have two things
+22:55 (@scarabeus) - kill arts, all misc apps needs it removed and be stabled before 3.5.10 stabling
+22:55 (@scarabeus) - stable 3.5.10, all kde related misc apps needs to be revbumped/verbumped and stabled before it
+22:55 (@scarabeus) anything to this
+22:55 (@alexxy) jmbsvicetto: thats why i think its better to mask kdeprefix use flag to not confuse stable users at all
+22:55 -!- jkt| [n=jkt@basa.flaska.net] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:55 (@tampakrap) kde3 misc apps is up to me
+22:55 (+reavertm) making kdeprefix is differnt topic :)
+22:55 (@yngwin) i'd agree with masking kdeprefix useflag
+22:55 (+wired) actually i agree with alexxy it should be masked
+22:56 (+krytzz) me too ^^
+22:56 (@jmbsvicetto) alexxy: Unmasking a use flag is not something we should ask our users to do
+22:56 (@scarabeus) reavertm: i think we will talk about it on the bug
+22:56 (@tampakrap) i want someone to stable 3.5.10, i don't know the procedure for a list of packages
+22:56 (@jmbsvicetto) alexxy: We already have it disabled by default
+22:56 (+wired) too many users use +kdeprefix without knowing wth it is
+22:56 (+wired) ohhh look shiny use flag
+22:56 (@alexxy) jmbsvicetto: kdeprefix is topper to make kde 4.2 stabel
+22:56 (@hwoarang) wired is right actually :)
+22:56 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: i dont mind having unmasked kdeprefix, when the kdeprefix issues are fixed
+22:56 (@alexxy) jmbsvicetto: users can think that they want to have kde in /usr/kde/<version> and use kdeprefix
+22:56 (@scarabeus) and users install it "by accident"
+22:57 (@jmbsvicetto) wired: Gentoo is not a distro for "not smart" users
+22:57 (+wired) jmbsvicetto: im with you 100%
+22:57 (+wired) the users aint
+22:57 (@jmbsvicetto) wired: We don't want to become Ubuntu ;)
+22:57 (@alexxy) but it will cause troubles if they hav kde3 for example
+22:57 (nirbheek) jmbsvicetto, Hey, you just Godwinned the conversation :p
+22:57 (@yngwin) ok, maybe add an ewarn then
+22:57 (+wired) there seems to be some general confusion regarding it
+22:57 (+wired) maybe it needs to be documented better
+22:57 -!- _Phlogi [n=quassel@168-18.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:57 (+reavertm) great, then I need volunteer to fix one bug - the one with picking live oxygen by kde 4.2 apps (both installed in kdeprefix)
+22:58 (+reavertm) after that - I can call kdeprefix supported
+22:58 (+reavertm) volunteers?
+22:58 (+reavertm) if no - mask kdeprefix :P
+22:58 (joost_op) we will have -kdeprefix in our next branch for sure
+22:58 -!- bschindler [n=quassel@77-56-156-71.dclient.hispeed.ch] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+22:58 (@jmbsvicetto) Let's improve our docs and make it *very* clear that users shouldn't enable kdeprefix unless they're ready to assume the support for their install
+22:58 (joost_op) if it helps
+22:58 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: also evarn is not bad idea
+22:58 (@scarabeus) ewarn
+22:58 (@jmbsvicetto) No problem with that
+22:58 (+wired) jmbsvicetto++
+22:58 (@scarabeus) something like I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING variable
+22:59 (+wired) and ewarn should be there as well
+22:59 -!- Eythan [n=Eythan@AMontpellier-552-1-118-57.w86-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] <- quit ["Leaving"]
+22:59 (+krytzz) yeah this one is great
+22:59 (nirbheek) Why not just globally use.mask it?
+22:59 (@jmbsvicetto) Although you all know just how much ewarns users tend to pay attention to
+22:59 (nirbheek) People who want to use it can enable it
+22:59 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: no
+22:59 (@yngwin) not another variable, then it'd be better just to mask the useflag
+22:59 (+wired) also many users think kdeprefix is needed for kde3/kde4, we need to tell them thats no longer the case
+22:59 (+reavertm) what's wrong with masking it until kdeprefix issues are fixed?
+22:59 (dagger) nirbheek: global use.mask should be for stuff which is know to be broken.
+23:00 (+reavertm) actually kdeprefix IS KNOWN to be broken :P
+23:00 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: i mean like live warning is handled
+23:00 (@yngwin) well, it *is* known to break things
+23:00 (nirbheek) dagger, isn't this known to be broken? :p
+23:00 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: I use it here :P
+23:00 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: i just expresed myself poorly
+23:00 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: broken ktorrent..
+23:00 (+reavertm) it is broken when used with non-kde4 sessions . period
+23:00 (dagger) is it broken for all installs? If you just use one kde (4.2) and no other version?
+23:00 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: I don't think we should require users to set a new use flag or to have to digg how to unmask use flags
+23:00 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: broken misc plasmoids...
+23:00 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: no useflag
+23:00 (@alexxy) reavertm: if its known to be broken then it should be masked by default
+23:00 (@alexxy) from regular users
+23:01 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: like the warning it is doing in live
+23:01 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: You're talking about mixing kde versions or using other DEs
+23:01 (nirbheek) dagger, then it's of no use, right? (if you only have one)
+23:01 (@alexxy) people who want to play with it smart enough to unmask it
+23:01 (+reavertm) both
+23:01 (+reavertm) using other DEs with multiple KDE4's installed
+23:01 (dagger) nirbheek: but I might like to have it in /usr/kde/4.2 location
+23:02 (+reavertm) jmbsvicetto: ^
+23:02 -!- mode/#gentoo-kde [+v Kuja^] by scarabeus
+23:02 (nirbheek) dagger, then why not make it default? :p
+23:02 (dagger) use.mask unmasking is not documented and should not be used really
+23:02 (nirbheek) kdeprefix is not documented, and should noe be used really (unless you know what you're doing)
+23:02 (@tampakrap) kdeprefix is documented
+23:02 (+reavertm) what else. use.force?
+23:03 (+reavertm) (and it be overriden in /etc somewhere?)
+23:03 -!- ELITE_x [n=quassel@quassel/user/elite] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+23:03 (nirbheek) tampakrap, yeah, and my code is documented ;p
+23:03 (@scarabeus) ok you guys are way of topic :}
+23:03 (@scarabeus) we are suposed to talk about kde3
+23:04 (@scarabeus) so for now we have revbumping all misc packages and removing arts
+23:04 (@jmbsvicetto) So let's focus again on KDE3
+23:04 (@scarabeus) anything else onto that topic?
+23:04 (@tampakrap) yes
+23:04 (@tampakrap) let me talk for a minute
+23:04 (@yngwin) well, this kdeprefix mess should be decided before stabling 3.5.10
+23:04 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: I don't think it's worthy to worry about arts, but if those working on KDE3 want to drop it now, I don't have a problem with it
+23:04 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: it is not working, again ton of bugs open
+23:04 (@tampakrap) the original idea behind hacking kde3 eclasses was to have mostly a kde4 session with kde3 apps working
+23:04 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: so if we kill it we smash bugs
+23:05 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: well, it isn't a regression ;)
+23:05 (@tampakrap) especially those that aren't still ready for kde4
+23:05 (@alexxy) kde3 works perfectly without arts
+23:05 (@alexxy) =)
+23:05 (@tampakrap) this issue is fixed, if wired and reavertm want to play more it is their issue, the stabilizattion can be proceeded normally
+23:05 (@tampakrap) and i'm going to document it
+23:05 (@tampakrap) objections?
+23:05 (+reavertm) nope
+23:06 (+reavertm) we can add some blocker anytime
+23:06 (+reavertm) (if needed)
+23:06 (@tampakrap) also
+23:06 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: I agree with that
+23:06 (@yngwin) as long as kdeprefix is properly documented
+23:06 (@tampakrap) the mess created in kde misc apps was expected, so nothing is fucked
+23:06 (wilder_) hiall, qt-4.5.1 in portage does not contain   http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/qt-copy/patches/0279-svg-rendering-regression.diff
+23:06 (@tampakrap) we new from the beginning that most of them should be rebuilt to work and i am trying to revbump and stabilize the most popular ones
+23:07 (@tampakrap) and close random bugs
+23:07 (wilder_) ?
+23:07 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: At this point, I think we should have 2 goals with KDE3: working environment to those still resisting KDE4 and working KDE3 apps inside a KDE4 session
+23:07 (@hwoarang) wilder_: it does. but we have a meeting now
+23:07 (+krytzz) wilder_ please later, we are in a meeting currently
+23:07 (@tampakrap) jmbsvicetto: both those work
+23:07 (@scarabeus) so we can stable
+23:07 (@scarabeus) goodie
+23:07 (wilder_) sry
+23:07 (+krytzz) np
+23:07 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: right, but we should be explicit that is what we'll support for KDE3
+23:08 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: So people know what we're doing and what we're willing to support
+23:08 (@tampakrap) i can document that
+23:08 (+reavertm) if we disable XDG_DATA_DIRS for kdeprefixed kde4's - current kdelibs patch is sufficient
+23:08 (+reavertm) (for kde3)
+23:08 (@tampakrap) and also propose things to users so as to have a fully working kde4 env
+23:09 (+reavertm) so only remaining issue is to fix kde4 session (kdelibs .desktop files loader) the same way as kdelibs3 one
+23:09 (+reavertm) (I can do it)
+23:09 (@tampakrap) not a major one but feel free
+23:09 (@jmbsvicetto) I also propose we make it clear that upstream stopped working on KDE almost 1 year ago and doesn't show much concern about it anymore
+23:09 (+reavertm) (a'ka fixing kde3 apps in kde4)
+23:09 (@tampakrap) the major issue is to have them working, i don't care much if they aren't listed in kmenu :)
+23:09 (@jmbsvicetto) So people worried about security should start thinking about upgrading
+23:10 (+wired) actually them showing up is important
+23:10 (@tampakrap) ok i'll prepare a new document about kde3 and kde3/4
+23:10 (@jmbsvicetto) That's another reason we need to press for KDE4 going stable
+23:10 (+wired) so that patch reavertm is talking about is needed
+23:10 (+reavertm) tampakrap: it will make them work - they need no special care apart from appending fullpath to executable
+23:10 -!- pgega [n=pgega@tonbridgesecpay.force9.co.uk] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+23:10 -!- Phlogi [n=quassel@24-167.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+23:10 (@tampakrap) reavertm: feel free to do it no problem by me
+23:11 (@scarabeus) ok i would say important things about kde3 are done
+23:11 (@scarabeus) what is next...
+23:11 (@scarabeus) KDE 4.3
+23:11 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: So, should we try to define a timeline for 3.5.10?
+23:11 (@scarabeus) oh
+23:11 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: just one sec
+23:11 (@scarabeus) deadline?
+23:11 (@tampakrap) what deadline? i can open the bug even now, the things i wanted to work are ready
+23:12 (@tampakrap) i don't know from the open bugs view if this is possible
+23:12 (@jmbsvicetto) ok
+23:12 (@scarabeus) ok so lets say 15.6 is last day when we cc archies?
+23:12 (@tampakrap) ok we have the kde3 thing settled
+23:12 (@jmbsvicetto) So we'll open a stabilization bug for 3.5.10 asap?
+23:13 (@tampakrap) yes ok
+23:13 (@jmbsvicetto) Good :)
+23:13 (@tampakrap) scarabeus: paste the summary so everyone can see it
+23:13 -!- jmbsvicetto topic of #gentoo-kde ->> Gentoo KDE | meeting: Now - KDE4.3 | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | p.keywords: http://xrl.us/kdekeyw | Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help? http://tinyurl.com/gktodo | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | Want to test KDE4 on a kvm? http://tinyurl.com/by7tv3 | KDE 4.2.87in kde-testing! | SitRep: SNAFU
+23:13 (@hwoarang) http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c5211b31c0fbff058bc767e3ac8ef077.xml
+23:13 (@scarabeus) tampakrap: it is mess
+23:13 (@scarabeus) tampakrap: i need to polish it later
+23:13 (@scarabeus) dont worry summary will be
+23:13 (@tampakrap) ok
+23:13 (@tampakrap) next topic
+23:13 (@scarabeus) libknotification is done
+23:13 (+krytzz) ok for 4.3, i dont know for sure but i think the libnotification stuff is being merged into kdelibs later
+23:13 (@scarabeus) it is pdepend in kdelibs
+23:14 (@scarabeus) it will be merged in 4.4
+23:14 (+krytzz) ah ok
+23:14 (@scarabeus) so for now it is best solution
+23:14 (@scarabeus) also i dont get upstream
+23:14 (@scarabeus) seriously
+23:14 (@scarabeus) the lib is needed in half core packages
+23:14 (@scarabeus) and they didnt add it
+23:14 (@scarabeus) insane
+23:14 (+wired) yes well
+23:14 (@alexxy) yep
+23:14  -> jmbsvicetto whistles
+23:14 (+wired) at first they had it in extra gear
+23:14 (+reavertm) abi/api changes probably
+23:14 (+wired) LOLZ
+23:14 (+wired) :p
+23:14 (+reavertm) they wanted to workaround feature freeze :P
+23:14 (+reavertm) simly
+23:15 (+reavertm) so they invented "experimental" thing
+23:15 (@alexxy) ohh
+23:15 (@scarabeus) ok
+23:15 (@scarabeus) what else we have for kde4.3
+23:15 (@alexxy) some additional deps
+23:15 (@alexxy) like wicd
+23:15 (@tampakrap) kopete will have facebook support :)
+23:15 (+reavertm) and phonon
+23:15 (@hwoarang) LOOOOLZ
+23:15 (@alexxy) yep
+23:16 (@alexxy) also non released phonon as dep
+23:16 (+krytzz) well virtuoso isnt stable as trueg wrote
+23:16 (@scarabeus) krytzz: it is not mandatory for 4.3
+23:16 (@scarabeus) :}
+23:16 (+reavertm) or maybe we pull mplayer with mplayerthumbs?
+23:16 (+reavertm) (it's pretty heavy dep)
+23:16 (dagger) what's the status of policykit with 4.3? Do we need some extra docs?
+23:16 (+krytzz) yes
+23:16 (@scarabeus) ah
+23:16 (@scarabeus) docs
+23:16 (+krytzz) reavertm how do other package handle such deps?
+23:16 (@scarabeus) definetly
+23:16 (@alexxy) well
+23:16 (+reavertm) (that's why I opted for making phonon snapshot evem if I use mplayer myself)
+23:17 (@alexxy) policy kit used to control some privilegies like suspend/resume
+23:17 (+reavertm) krytzz: you mean other distros?
+23:17 (@yngwin) when is kde going to use qt's phonon?
+23:17 (+reavertm) or whether it's compatible?
+23:17 (+krytzz) reavertm no, i mean other packages who just call another binary
+23:17 (@scarabeus) yngwin: hopefully with 4.6
+23:17 (+reavertm) yngwin: for us? never
+23:17 (@scarabeus) yngwin: but we can just hope
+23:17 (@yngwin) ok
+23:17 (+reavertm) unless we package xine backend separately
+23:18 -!- Pesa [n=Pesa@bluemchen.kde.org] <- leaves #gentoo-kde []
+23:18 (+reavertm) (btw, policykit panel crashes in kde trunk, anyone can confirm?)
+23:18 (@scarabeus) reavertm: ok we will ship phonon snapshot
+23:18 (@hwoarang) is this possible? does it worth the pain?
+23:19 (@scarabeus) hwoarang: worth it is
+23:19 (@scarabeus) because we wont have the blocker bugs
+23:19 (+reavertm) pain it is not
+23:19 (@hwoarang) ok then this sounds great !
+23:19 -!- Pesa [n=Pesa@bluemchen.kde.org] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:19 (@alexxy) reavertm: in 4.2.87 it works
+23:19 (@scarabeus) ok what state is the policykit anyway
+23:19 (@scarabeus) is it usable
+23:19 (@scarabeus) does it work?
+23:19 (@scarabeus) is there something neede
+23:19 (@scarabeus) d
+23:19 (@scarabeus) (i am quite scared about it)
+23:20 (@alexxy) scarabeus: polkit works
+23:20 (+reavertm) krytzz: I haven't understood, sorry
+23:20 (@alexxy) and its needed for some actions like suspend resume
+23:20 (dagger) alexxy: isn't it controled by hal's policykit settings?
+23:20 (@scarabeus) if it works then ok
+23:20 (@alexxy) dagger: not sure
+23:20 (+krytzz) reavertm hm forget it :p i think i missed something
+23:21 (+reavertm) (in kubuntu thet did it well btw)
+23:21 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: about the blocks, I think we should add a kde use flag for qtscriptgenerator/qt-qt3support so that we can solve the phonon blocks. I talked about that in the bug
+23:21 (@tampakrap) kde4 use flag
+23:21 (@yngwin) we'll come to that
+23:21 (dagger) jmbsvicetto: good point
+23:21 (+reavertm) what about adding virtual for phonon?
+23:21 (@scarabeus) ok so we will ship phonon snapshot in main tree
+23:21 (@alexxy) ahh yes use flags
+23:21 (@scarabeus) any objections
+23:21 (@alexxy) =)
+23:22 (@scarabeus) and i think virtual is better than useflag
+23:22 (@hwoarang) +1 ^^
+23:22 (@yngwin) why?
+23:22 (@scarabeus) it should work
+23:22 (+reavertm) phonon in qt 4.5.1 is the same version as media-sound/phonon in tree
+23:22 (@scarabeus) and we dont have to polute the qt ebuilds
+23:22 (@jmbsvicetto) bug 270188
+23:22 (+reavertm) (just with no-go backend - gstreamer)
+23:22 (Willikins) jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/270188 "qt-phonon / phonon + phonon-kde block"; Gentoo Linux, Applications; REOP; jannisf@gmail.com:kde@g.o
+23:23 (+reavertm) those blocks are mostly portage bugs btw
+23:23 (@yngwin) yes
+23:23 (@yngwin) well, if kde wants a virtual, i suppose that would work
+23:23 (@scarabeus) yngwin: well i thinked about you
+23:23 (@jmbsvicetto) hmm, how will the virtual solve the isue?
+23:23 (@scarabeus) i dont mind poluting qt ebuilds
+23:23 (@jmbsvicetto) issue*
+23:23 (@scarabeus) but isnt virtual better for maintaining?
+23:24 (+reavertm) || deps will be removed from ebuilds
+23:24 (@jmbsvicetto) The virtual will have to prefer one implementation over the other - which one will we prefer?
+23:24 -!- marco_ [n=marco@95.222.93.133] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+23:24 (@scarabeus) media one
+23:24 (+reavertm) || ( qt-phonon phonon ) deps
+23:24 (@scarabeus) cause it is phonon + xine
+23:24 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: I don't think qt will want that
+23:24 (+wired) i agree with jmbsvicetto, kde use sounds better
+23:24 (@scarabeus) ok then we have to separate the xine
+23:24 (@scarabeus) srsly i dont mind
+23:24 (@scarabeus) so make it work :]
+23:24 (@yngwin) we wont use the virtual if qt-phonon is 2nd choice
+23:24 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: Otherwise, we could just revert the deps on the qt ebuilds
+23:25  -> hwoarang lost contact
+23:25 (+reavertm) separating xine needs to be done anyway iho
+23:25 (@hwoarang) qt-phonon+xine sounds better
+23:25 (@hwoarang) n?
+23:25 (@hwoarang) *no?
+23:25 (@yngwin) that sounds like a better solution
+23:25 (+reavertm) make it possible
+23:25 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: What we really need to do is to force xine to qt upstream ;)
+23:25 (@hwoarang) you cant
+23:25 (+reavertm) xine is evil GPL
+23:25 (+reavertm) no can do
+23:26 (@jmbsvicetto) right, *evil*
+23:26 (@yngwin) lol
+23:26 (@scarabeus) ok so snapshot and spliting
+23:26 (@hwoarang) the thing is, is it possible to ship xine separately?
+23:26 (@scarabeus) the useflag i guess is ok
+23:26 (@hwoarang) good
+23:26 (+reavertm) hwoarang: shoud be possible
+23:26 (@scarabeus) so lets use it for now
+23:26 (@scarabeus) and later we just drop media-sound/phonon
+23:26 (@scarabeus) problem solved
+23:27 (@yngwin) hwoarang: you ok with USE=kde in qt ebuilds to prefer media-sound/phonon over qt-phonon?
+23:27 (+reavertm) (what about -9999? live phonon frm qt is not really live phonon - media-sound/phonon-9999 will need to stay - virtual can come into play)
+23:27 (@hwoarang) i dont mind
+23:28 (+reavertm) hwoarang: and you need to strip gstreamer from qt-phonon as well
+23:28 (@yngwin) ok
+23:28 (@hwoarang) in case we have kde?
+23:28 -!- d00p [n=d00p@srv3.nutime.de] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:28 (@hwoarang) kde? -> media-sound/phonon and strip gstreamer?
+23:28  -> hwoarang lost contact again :S
+23:28 (+reavertm) xine and gstreamer backends could be split from media-sound/phonon
+23:28 (@hwoarang) ok
+23:29 (@jmbsvicetto) yngwin: can we have "kde? ( || ( media-sound/phonon x11-libs/qt-phonon )) !kde? ( || ( x11-libs/qt-phono media-sound/phonon ))" ?
+23:29 (@yngwin) we can work out the details later
+23:29 (@hwoarang) reavertm:  so we ll use the split packages  and strip the gstreamer from qt-phonon
+23:29 (+reavertm) imho - qt-phonon should provide just phonon library - no platorm sound library
+23:29 (@scarabeus) details later plz
+23:29 (@hwoarang) ok
+23:29 (+reavertm) ok
+23:29 (@scarabeus) anything else for kde4.3
+23:29 (@scarabeus) this release seems fine
+23:29 (@jmbsvicetto) That way we can add a dep on kde4 eclasses for x11-libs/qt-qt3support[kde]
+23:29 (@scarabeus) if we have nothing else
+23:29 (+reavertm) yeah, it's b0rked!
+23:29 (@scarabeus) borked by upstream
+23:30 (@scarabeus) but if there is something from our side
+23:30 -!- helch [n=helch@212-41-73-167.adsl.solnet.ch] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:30 (+reavertm) (bth, it's misusing kde USE flag - better something related to phonon, not kde)
+23:30 (@tampakrap) phonon use flag?
+23:30 (@hwoarang) we can work on that
+23:31 (@hwoarang) kde4 sounds better to me . or kde
+23:31 (@yngwin) kde it is
+23:31 (@hwoarang) ok move on
+23:31 (@jmbsvicetto) hwoarang: As we're talking about kde-4.3, let's spend a few minutes talking about the use flags
+23:31 (+reavertm) kde, kde4?
+23:31 (@hwoarang) as you wish :)
+23:32 (@jmbsvicetto) hwoarang: We should drop the KDE4 use flag now and instead use KDE and KDE3 use flags
+23:32 (@tampakrap) kde->kde3 and kde4->kde4 and we can document that too
+23:32 (+reavertm) I expreessed my opition on -desktop ml
+23:32 (@hwoarang) that discussion took place ages ago
+23:32 (@tampakrap) why change the kde use flag? it is already used by kde3
+23:32 (@hwoarang) :/ i m not sure if we reached on some solution
+23:32 (@jmbsvicetto) The KDE use flag should give users the best working version at each point in time - that means it should give users KDE4 now
+23:32 (@scarabeus) kde = latest kde, for now kde4
+23:32 (@scarabeus) kde3 = kde 3.5
+23:32 (@yngwin) kde useflag means highest available version that is relevant to the package
+23:33 (@jmbsvicetto) not exactly the latest. As long as a version is experimental, it makes sense to have one use flag for it
+23:33 (@scarabeus) what i write
+23:33 (+reavertm) I don't like idea of self-'migrating' USE flag
+23:33 (@tampakrap) and what about kgtk for example that supports both?
+23:33 (@scarabeus) reavertm: gtk2 gtk1 was pain
+23:33 (+reavertm) "now we consider kde as KDE4, later it will be KDE5)
+23:33 (@scarabeus) trust me self migrating is better
+23:33 (dagger) jmbsvicetto: wouldn't it be less ambiguous to keep kde3 and kde4, so people will _always_ know what potential deps it might have/
+23:33 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: that's how it should be, imo
+23:33 (+reavertm) dagger: my point
+23:34 (@scarabeus) their issue
+23:34 (@jmbsvicetto) dagger / reavertm: One can check the local use flags
+23:34 (@scarabeus) they can track our anouncement
+23:34 (@scarabeus) we have news
+23:34 (@scarabeus) so we can sent it to their machine quite obviously
+23:34 (@jmbsvicetto) That's why we can now have local descriptions to make clear what each flag does
+23:34 (+reavertm) ok, what about compiz?
+23:34 (dagger) jmbsvicetto: what if we suddenly change kde flag to old kde4. That will cause problems for users
+23:35 (+reavertm) kde3 and kde USE flags?
+23:35 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: I'll fix that one
+23:35 (+reavertm) what about  'kde' meaning "general KDE support"
+23:35 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: I haven't spend as much time with it as I would like
+23:35 (+reavertm) what the heck is that?
+23:35 (@scarabeus) dagger: nothing
+23:35 (dagger) I really believe we shoudn't have kde and kde3, just kde4 and kde3. That way it's simple for people
+23:35 (@scarabeus) they just read anoucnement
+23:36 -!- Weaselweb [n=quassel@2001:6f8:9e4:123:21a:92ff:fe5a:1409] <- quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
+23:36 (dagger) scarabeus: do you read announcements? Most people don't
+23:36 (@scarabeus) their problem
+23:36 (@scarabeus) really
+23:36 (@scarabeus) i read them
+23:36 (@yngwin) indeed
+23:36 (+reavertm) jmbsvicetto: I mean, there's choice to build against kdelibs:3.5 and kdelibs4 - it needs to be distinguished
+23:36 (@hwoarang) wtf
+23:36 (@jmbsvicetto) dagger: That way everyone will have to update their use flags to migrate between versions - I don't think that makes any sense
+23:36 (@hwoarang) stop carying about lazy users
+23:36 (+papillon81) scarabeus is right. kde should always refer to the latest version
+23:36 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: yes, I know. I'll keep the 2 use flags, but they're going to become kde3 and kde
+23:36 -!- pip_ [n=pip@e179240053.adsl.alicedsl.de] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+23:36 (dagger) jmbsvicetto: they will have to modify use flags anyway migrating from 3 to 4, as most use flags are different anyway
+23:37 (@yngwin) most users will want/assume support for latest version
+23:37 (+reavertm) "general KDE support" means compiling against some kdelibs
+23:37 (@jmbsvicetto) dagger: that's a different thing, but kde will mean adding support for KDE
+23:37 (+reavertm) there's no "general" kdelibs - it's particular kdelibs that will be pulled
+23:37 (dagger) I don't want to wonder - what version might it be today ... and what will it be tommorow - and I'm pretty sure users don't want it as well
+23:38 (@yngwin) it's pretty straightforward
+23:38 (+reavertm) that being said = "support for KDE" is not clear enough
+23:38 -!- LXj [n=lx@ip211-94.telenet.dn.ua] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+23:38 -!- wohnout [n=wohnout@kolej-mk-60.zcu.cz] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:38 (+reavertm) stable users have kde 3.5 and support for kde means support for THEIR kde
+23:38 (dagger) no it's not streaightforward. Some will assume - most recent, some will assume stable, some other wont have idea
+23:38 (+wired) well one valid alternative would be to just ditch kde and keep kde3 and kde4
+23:38 (+reavertm) for me kde treacking latest kde in portage is no go
+23:38 (+reavertm) never
+23:39 (dagger) if we change kde to kde3 - we screw stable users and emerge -DN
+23:39 (@yngwin) it's been that way for a long time, and for good reasons
+23:39 -!- The_Ball [n=The_Ball@d58-106-136-240.sbr4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:39 (dagger) unless you want to do the change when kde4 goes stable
+23:39 (+reavertm) yes, my recommendation is to drop 'kde' and keep only 'kde3', 'kde4' and so on
+23:39 (@yngwin) dagger: we dont need to change
+23:40 (dagger) yngwin: I'm lost than. I thought kde will suppose to be for kde 4
+23:40 (@jmbsvicetto) dagger: I think you're missing an important point - the kde use flag is relevant for misc apps, not for base kde
+23:40 (+spatz) will be symmetric with 'qt3', 'qt4', which makes sense to many people
+23:40 (@tampakrap) can we vote? options: kde3-kde4 and kde-kde3
+23:40 (@scarabeus) ok
+23:40 (@scarabeus) lets have vote
+23:40 -!- thansen [n=thansen@c-76-27-110-194.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:40 (@alexxy) reavertm: +1
+23:40 (+Civil) kde3-kde4
+23:40 (@tampakrap) i vote kde3-kde4
+23:40 (dagger) kde3-kde4
+23:40 (@yngwin) kde means kde support
+23:40 (+krytzz) kde3-kde4
+23:40 (+wired) do we vote or dev-only? =]
+23:40 (@scarabeus) on this only devs please
+23:40 (@scarabeus) and use 1 2
+23:40 (+krytzz) oh :p sorry ignore mine
+23:41 (@scarabeus) 1 for kde3-kde4
+23:41 (@scarabeus) 2 for kde3-kde
+23:41 (@hwoarang) 2
+23:41 (@tampakrap) 1
+23:41 (@yngwin) 2
+23:41 (@alexxy) 1
+23:41 (@scarabeus) 1
+23:41 (@jmbsvicetto) 2
+23:41 (dagger) 1
+23:41 (@scarabeus) erm 2
+23:41 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: I think you messe your vote ;)
+23:41 (@scarabeus) i mean 2
+23:41 (@scarabeus) :D
+23:41 (@scarabeus) idiot
+23:41 (@jmbsvicetto) messed*
+23:41 (@scarabeus) yup
+23:41 (@yngwin) you pulled a ssuominen
+23:41 (@scarabeus) 2222222
+23:41 (@scarabeus) i wont change it
+23:42 (@alexxy) no!!!!!!
+23:42 (@hwoarang) 2 it is :P
+23:42 (@scarabeus) i just wanted to mark kde3-kde as one ; then i read it above
+23:42 (dagger) scarabeus: lies!
+23:42 (Viedzmin) ave \m/
+23:42 (dagger) scarabeus: ;)
+23:42 (@scarabeus) ;[
+23:42 (@scarabeus) ;]
+23:42 (@yngwin) so we stay with current practice
+23:42 (@jmbsvicetto) ok, so let's move forward
+23:42 (@scarabeus) yep
+23:42 (@scarabeus) CODE
+23:42 (@tampakrap) wait
+23:42 -!- doobry [n=quassel@host86-169-175-149.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] <- quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
+23:42 (@yngwin) yes
+23:43 (@tampakrap) who will do the change?
+23:43 (@tampakrap) :)
+23:43 (@yngwin) what change?
+23:43 (@hwoarang) you
+23:43 (@scarabeus) when you smile so much
+23:43 (@scarabeus) guess twice
+23:43 (+reavertm) thos who voted that is
+23:43 (dagger) scarabeus: can you please explain magic CODE
+23:43 (@scarabeus) dagger: you dont get something in it?
+23:43 (@scarabeus) then ask
+23:43 (@scarabeus) ok what code is
+23:43 (@tampakrap) people wait the last topic isn't finished
+23:43 (@scarabeus) it is list of things all kde team packages should comply
+23:43 (dagger) scarabeus: I have no idea what "  - enforcing CODE requirements everywhere" is about
+23:43 (+reavertm) look at CODE file in Documentation
+23:43 (@tampakrap) we need to grep the tree and change the flags who will do it???????????
+23:44 (@yngwin) tampakrap: NO NEED
+23:44 (+reavertm) it's work in progress
+23:44 -!- The_Ball1 [n=The_Ball@d58-106-26-133.sbr2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:44 (@scarabeus) http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/kde.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/CODE
+23:44 (@yngwin) only when there is a choice between kde 3 and 4 support do you need to specify USE=kde3
+23:44 (dagger) scarabeus: ok, now I get you
+23:44 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: That needs only to be done for latest versions of misc packages that work with KDE4
+23:45 -!- termite47384 [n=me@cpe-066-057-082-106.nc.res.rr.com] <- quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
+23:45 -!- LXj [n=lx@ip211-94.telenet.dn.ua] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:45 (+reavertm) ok, so CODE is set of commit policies/guides in overlay basically
+23:46 (@scarabeus) in overlay and in tree too
+23:46 (+reavertm) maybe some ebuild workflow will be recommended there as well
+23:46 (@scarabeus) yup i want everyone to look on it and write some suggestions there and we will merge it
+23:46 (+krytzz) repoman plugin for the CODE :p
+23:46 (@scarabeus) krytzz: :D
+23:46 (@hwoarang) lazy ppl
+23:47 (@hwoarang) you can write a quick draft for kde ebuilds, just like i did for qt4 based ebuilds
+23:47 (+reavertm) will be there
+23:47 (+reavertm) as well as templates for blocks, etc
+23:47 (+reavertm) anyway - one rule
+23:47 (@yngwin) btw, i want $PN in commit messages for qting-edge as well
+23:48 (@hwoarang) hm?
+23:48 (+reavertm) everyone should respect them :)
+23:48 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: If we have a CODE file, I might add a few suggestions about ebuilds (the ones reavertm noted some time ago)
+23:48 (@scarabeus) yep this one is draft
+23:49 (@scarabeus) althrought i enforce it as-is
+23:49 (@scarabeus) so please improve it
+23:49 (@hwoarang) yngwin: what? you want a template for qting-edge commits?
+23:49 (@scarabeus) and in next meeting it will be enabled as hard-forced
+23:49 (@scarabeus) and we should punish not folowing it
+23:49 -!- Red_Devil [n=red@lounge.datux.nl] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:49 (@scarabeus) i know annoying, but reduces time needed for maintaining
+23:49 (@hwoarang) indeed
+23:49 (@yngwin) hwoarang: yes please start commit msg with $PN
+23:50 -!- Red_Devil is now known as Guest36992
+23:50 (@hwoarang) thats sad. I really enjoyed funny commit messages
+23:50 (@hwoarang) :D
+23:50 (@yngwin) i dont mind funny :)
+23:50 (@hwoarang) ok hold on
+23:50 (+reavertm) ok, anything else? next?
+23:50 (@yngwin) but i do want to see what pkg is affected
+23:50 (@hwoarang) !herd qt && Pesa && spatz
+23:50 (+wired) lol-cat/pn
+23:50 (@hwoarang) ^^
+23:50 (@hwoarang) && wired
+23:51 (Pesa) hwoarang: i'm here
+23:51 -!- mode/#gentoo-kde [+vv Pesa spatz] by scarabeus
+23:51 (+wired) hwoarang: seriously, we read it already
+23:51 (+wired) :D
+23:51 (@hwoarang) did you see what we said about commit messages?
+23:51 -!- The_Ball_ [n=The_Ball@d58-106-141-118.sbr4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+23:51 (+spatz) yep
+23:51 (@hwoarang) you did
+23:51 (@hwoarang) ok
+23:51 (+Pesa) yes
+23:52 (@hwoarang) anything else about CODE kde ppl?
+23:52 (@scarabeus) ok
+23:52 (@scarabeus) code done
+23:52 (@scarabeus) if noone has anything else
+23:52 (Willikins) hwoarang: incorrect usage, ask for help using 'Willikins: help herd'
+23:52 (+wired) lolz
+23:52 (@hwoarang) yes baby whatever
+23:52 (@scarabeus) next new pple in team etc/etc...
+23:52 (@scarabeus) so if you move your eyes to voiced pple
+23:53 (@hwoarang) we have plenty of them :P
+23:53 (@scarabeus) those are our not-yet deved/herdtested resources
+23:53 (@jmbsvicetto) hmmm, we're at around half of the agenda and we're hitting the 2 hour mark
+23:53 (+wired) who did you call a resource!!! :D
+23:53 (@yngwin) wired has finished quizzes, now it's up to recruiters
+23:53 (@hwoarang) this meeting will last forever!
+23:53 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: too much spam about kde3
+23:53 (+krytzz) 1/4 if you add the qt stuff jmbsvicetto :p
+23:53 (@hwoarang) \o/
+23:53 (@scarabeus) most is done
+23:53 (+reavertm) jmbsvicetto: you know - it's merithorical meeting, not just fluff talk! :)
+23:53 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: kdeprefix is done
+23:53 (@scarabeus) and so on
+23:54 (@yngwin) i'm interjecting qt recruits now
+23:54 (@scarabeus) ok so if you pple want to mentor someone
+23:54 (+reavertm) scarabeus: I'd have some idea
+23:54 (@scarabeus) or vice versa, if someone has urge became dev fast :D
+23:54 (@scarabeus) reavertm: you dont count, you have resistance to becaming dev, althrought i dunno why ;D
+23:54 (+reavertm) even if we have quite many HT's and contributors, I still feel we're understaffed in terms of tracking uptream patches
+23:54 (@yngwin) Pesa has been very active with Qt already, and spatz is our newest recruit
+23:55 (@hwoarang) \o/
+23:55 (+wired) woot
+23:55 (@yngwin) they both are on their way to devhood
+23:55 (+spatz) :D
+23:55 (+Pesa) ;)
+23:55 (@yngwin) there is another one, sping, not here now, he will join us after finishing GSoC
+23:55 (@tampakrap) and me :D
+23:55 (@hwoarang) we are growing fast
+23:55 (@hwoarang) be carefeull
+23:55 (@scarabeus) for kde team i would like krytzz and papillon81 to work on their ebuild quiz, cause you two are progressing :]
+23:55 (+papillon81) scarabeus: i have the quiz ready :-)
+23:55 (@scarabeus) great
+23:56 (@scarabeus) papillon81: sent it by mail, and we will discuss the meeting about it
+23:56 (+wired) yngwin: btw when should I expect a response? :)
+23:56 (@scarabeus) later :}
+23:56 (@hwoarang) soon wired
+23:56 (+krytzz) i cant devote enough time currently to do serious stuff
+23:56 (@yngwin) tampakrap: you may hear from sping (sebastian) as he is interested in qt3/kde3 maintenance
+23:56 (@yngwin) wired: usually within a few days
+23:56 (+reavertm) btw, what about 'assigning' some herd packages to particulat people?
+23:57 (+reavertm) for example one would take kdepim, someone else kdebindings
+23:57 (@tampakrap) not kde-base/* only extra packages
+23:57 (@scarabeus) reavertm: it needs interest
+23:57 (+reavertm) this way work is somewhat split
+23:57 -!- mikkoc [n=mikko@host116-78-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+23:57 (+papillon81) scarabeus: it's mostly ready but already lying around for a year or so. will have to look over it
+23:57 (+wired) yngwin: thnx
+23:57 (@scarabeus) papillon81: no prob :}
+23:57 (+reavertm) scarabeus: of course... unfortunately
+23:58 (@scarabeus) ok i think that is all i wanted about recruits
+23:58 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: That's against the spirit of herds
+23:58 (@scarabeus) i wanted you to see them
+23:58 (@scarabeus) and also whom is progressing i contacted
+23:58 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: But nothing prevents one from adding himself to a package belonging to one of the herds
+23:58 -!- dagger [n=dagger@gentoo/developer/dagger] <- leaves #gentoo-kde ["http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."]
+23:58 -!- dagger [n=dagger@gentoo/developer/dagger] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+23:58 -!- mode/#gentoo-kde [+o dagger] by ChanServ
+23:58 (@scarabeus) anything else upon recruits?
+23:58 (@scarabeus) anyone?
+23:59 -!- The_Ball [n=The_Ball@d58-106-136-240.sbr4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+23:59 (@scarabeus) jokey: are you here?
+23:59 (+reavertm) jmbsvicetto: I'm not talking about beaurocracy (adding to metadata) but real maintenance (periodically looking for some bugs in kde.org)
+23:59 (+reavertm) or we can just rely on b.g.o
+23:59 (@scarabeus) we are good at handling new bugs
+23:59 (@scarabeus) really
+23:59 (@jmbsvicetto) reavertm: Well, people can focus on particular areas
+--- Day changed Fri May 22 2009
+00:00 (jokey) scarabeus: yep
+00:00 (@jmbsvicetto) About bugs, we need to start paying extra attention to security bugs
+00:00 (@scarabeus) jokey: so, what i need to do to be able to add pple to our git overlay
+00:00 (@scarabeus) jokey: i can do for sunrise, so what is needed to be done for kde team ones
+00:00 (@jmbsvicetto) you need to poke him :P
+00:00 (@scarabeus) i know
+00:00 (@jmbsvicetto) or rbu or robbat2
+00:00 (@scarabeus) directly i mean
+00:00 (jokey) need to mess with robin, I'll poke you back
+00:00 (@scarabeus) rbu cant touch git
+00:00 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: he can
+00:01 (@dagger) scarabeus: he can
+00:01 (@scarabeus) jokey: this workflow is unflexible :]
+00:01 (@scarabeus) dagger: good update :]
+00:01 (@scarabeus) okey i will handle this with jokey internaly then :]
+00:01 (@scarabeus) the next topic is our guide
+00:01 (@scarabeus) kde4 one
+00:01 (@scarabeus) it neeeds update/cleanup
+00:01 (@scarabeus) who will do it
+00:01 (+reavertm) "handling cmake relwithdebuginfo compilation to please upstream..." ?
+00:01 (jokey) internally? oO teh sekrit
+00:02 (joost_op) guys can the sabayon point on the agenda be discussed at later time
+00:02 (@jmbsvicetto) joost_op: hehe
+00:02 (@scarabeus) reavertm: deffered
+00:02 (@scarabeus) reavertm: thought about it
+00:02 (@scarabeus) reavertm: not worth
+00:02 (+krytzz) what??
+00:02 (+reavertm) yeah, agreed
+00:02 (+papillon81) goooood
+00:02 (@scarabeus) jokey: definetly
+00:02 (@scarabeus) ;]
+00:03 (joost_op) jmbsvicetto, i think it can be talked about off the record anyway
+00:03 (@scarabeus) so the guide
+00:03 (+krytzz) ok then lets discuss this later scarabeus
+00:03 (@scarabeus) who
+00:03 (@tampakrap) wait
+00:03 (@tampakrap) about the guide
+00:03 (@tampakrap) would you like a kde3/4 monolithic one?
+00:03 (@jmbsvicetto) joost_op: sorry, that was meant for jokey
+00:03 -!- pgega [n=pgega@77-99-66-168.cable.ubr01.tonb.blueyonder.co.uk] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:04 (joost_op) oh
+00:04 (@yngwin) tampakrap: i think it makes sense, with kde4 going to go stable
+00:04 (@tampakrap) stating how to install kde4, how to install live/snapshots and how to install 3.5, and how we can mix them
+00:04 (@tampakrap) i'll do the guide
+00:04 (@tampakrap) agreed with the mixed guide?
+00:05 (joost_op) scarabeus, let me know the outcome of the dicussion
+00:05 (@tampakrap) boss? devs? hts?
+00:05 (joost_op) if any
+00:05 (@scarabeus) tampakrap: agreed
+00:05 (@scarabeus) so quiet...
+00:05 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: Perhaps we could have a new doc that points to specific guides about KDE4 and KDE3
+00:05 (@scarabeus) what happend
+00:05 -!- AntiXpucT [n=Skim@77.106.108.232] <- quit []
+00:06 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: That doc would just focus on the integratio of 3 and 4
+00:06 (@yngwin) scarabeus: more beer, less talk ;)
+00:06 (@hwoarang) lolz
+00:06 (@jmbsvicetto) yngwin: I need to have some fun with work network yet, so no beer for me ;)
+00:06 (@yngwin) heh
+00:06 (+reavertm) if we focus guys - we'll finish earlier :P
+00:07 (@hwoarang) ok with the guide?
+00:07 (joost_op) +1
+00:07 (@hwoarang) shall we proceed?
+00:07 (@hwoarang) tampakrap: ?
+00:07 (@tampakrap) jmbsvicetto: the procedure to install kde3 and to install kde3/4 isn't different so i wouldn't agree :)
+00:07 (@tampakrap) same sets, same keyword files...
+00:07 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: ok, feel free to work on it
+00:07 (@yngwin) i say whoever writes the guide(s), gets to make the decision
+00:07 (@tampakrap) ok move on then
+00:08 (@scarabeus) ok yngwin you take over
+00:08 (@hwoarang) what about kdebindings?
+00:08 (@hwoarang) is this off as well?
+00:08 (@scarabeus) eh
+00:08 (+reavertm) lacks some ebuilds
+00:08 (@scarabeus) right
+00:08 (@scarabeus) bindigns
+00:08 (@dagger) "kdebindings, lots of stuff missing there"
+00:08 (@scarabeus) we lacks tons of stuff
+00:08 (+reavertm) usually ruby and c#
+00:08 -!- jmbsvicetto topic of #gentoo-kde ->> Gentoo KDE | meeting: Now - kdebindings | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | p.keywords: http://xrl.us/kdekeyw | Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help? http://tinyurl.com/gktodo | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | Want to test KDE4 on a kvm? http://tinyurl.com/by7tv3 | KDE 4.2.87in kde-testing! | SitRep: SNAFU
+00:09 (+wired) lol
+00:09 (@yngwin) ok, whats the story with ruby for kde? does that depend on (currently broken) qt4-qtruby at all?
+00:09 (+reavertm) nobody knows :)
+00:09 (@scarabeus) ruby java c# php
+00:09 (@scarabeus) so whom wants it
+00:09 (+reavertm) - we need to try add those ebuilds
+00:09 -!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:10 (+reavertm) - maybe some ebuild name refactor for 4.3
+00:10 (+reavertm) anything else regarding kdebindings?
+00:10 (@scarabeus) ok reavertm we will talk about it later
+00:10 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: no PERL?
+00:10 (@scarabeus) reavertm: and delegate to other HTs
+00:10 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: no perl
+00:10 (@jmbsvicetto) I suggest we hand JAVA to bonsaikitten :P
+00:10 (@scarabeus) bindigns done
+00:11 (@scarabeus) joost_op: do you want to talk about sabayon then?
+00:11 (@jmbsvicetto) He's becoming too sane
+00:11 (@scarabeus) D
+00:11 (@bonsaikitten) jmbsvicetto: thank you :)
+00:11 (@jmbsvicetto) bonsaikitten: we aim to please ;)
+00:11 (@bonsaikitten) I aim to kill
+00:11 (+papillon81) :D
+00:11 (joost_op) well scarabeus i'm here
+00:12 (+reavertm) go :)
+00:12 (@scarabeus) shoot
+00:12 (@scarabeus) :]
+00:12 (@dagger) RUN!
+00:12 (joost_op) from the sabayon side we want to shoulder the kde herd as much as possible
+00:12 -!- Guest36992 [n=red@lounge.datux.nl] <- quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
+00:12 (joost_op) what we can offer would be something in the form off a repository that has experimental kde stuffs, built of the testing tree
+00:12 (+reavertm) you already did with some automagic deps and doc verification
+00:13 (joost_op) since i would maintain that tree, i could feedback about my findings
+00:13 (+reavertm) binary packages you mean? i don't follow
+00:13 (joost_op) nah
+00:14 (joost_op) i built against a tree thats near full portage
+00:14 -!- UT2K3 [n=UT2K3@212.86.209.81] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:14 (joost_op) sabayon is near full portage
+00:14 (+reavertm) yes, I know, what would be that experimental kde stuff?
+00:14 -!- FlyingFoX [n=FlyingFo@137.226.140.67] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:14 (joost_op) well, e.g. you are working on kde 4.3
+00:15 (joost_op) i could add this in a kde repository
+00:15 (joost_op) and start working on this and feedback my findings
+00:15 (UT2K3) hello guys, i'm using fglrx with dualscreen. When run kde its only on the notebook lcd and the right screen have no wm. Its possible to make it work?
+00:15 (@hwoarang) why not use the ebuilds from kde-testing? whu starting a new repository
+00:15 (joost_op) if you think it would help collect info
+00:15 (@hwoarang) UT2K3: meeting now . laterz :
+00:15 (@hwoarang) :)
+00:16 (joost_op) hwoarang, we don't want that in our mainline repositories ..
+00:16 (+krytzz) joost_op hm well duplicated work/ebuilds is always bad :p
+00:16 (UT2K3) oh its still meeting ok
+00:16 (@hwoarang) as krytzz said, duplicating ebuilds will lead to more compilcated results
+00:17 (@dagger) UT2K3: yeah, but it shouldn't take long now
+00:17 (joost_op) do you guys to start with see a benefit in me, or sabayon, help testing
+00:17 (tdr) duplicated ebuild confuse people
+00:17 (+reavertm) joost_op: you're free to do anything with ebuilds - and patches (those upstream I guess) are always welcome
+00:17 (UT2K3) okay (= ty
+00:17 (@jmbsvicetto) joost_op: If you want to cooperate, using something we provide would seem to be better for both projects than duplicating work
+00:17 (joost_op) nono
+00:17 (joost_op) your ebuilds
+00:17 -!- panard [n=panard@2a01:e35:8a09:e130:2e0:61ff:fe11:7adb] <- quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
+00:18 (+reavertm) joost_op: you just need to find someone to take care of this - it's quite a bit of work
+00:18 (joost_op) lol
+00:18 (@jmbsvicetto) So you mean you could test ~arch ebuilds?
+00:18 (joost_op) x86 and amd64
+00:18 (+krytzz) joost_op we had this already with kde-crazy and kde-testing, was a mess :p
+00:18 (@jmbsvicetto) Then go for it, we'll be glad to get bug reports
+00:18 (joost_op) i have a power machine to built
+00:18 (@scarabeus) ok i will put it this way
+00:19 (joost_op) i have testers AND users that report
+00:19 (@scarabeus) bugs from ppl with @sabayonlinux.org will be handled legitimely as our bugs
+00:19 (@scarabeus) and we can reflect them as HTs
+00:19 (@jmbsvicetto) joost_op: although most of us run ~arch or stuff in kde-testing
+00:19 (joost_op) i can filter whats important
+00:19 (@scarabeus) just for internal herd needs
+00:19 -!- Sho_ [n=EHS1@kde/hein] <- quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
+00:19 (@scarabeus) so we can rely for some info from them
+00:19 (+reavertm) especially those automagic deps are welcome
+00:19 (@scarabeus) yep
+00:19 (+reavertm) :)
+00:20 (@scarabeus) those made mine day great :]
+00:20 -!- Sho_ [n=EHS1@kde/hein] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:20 (joost_op) yeah in our staff meeting we talked about how to report anything back to gentoo
+00:20 (@jmbsvicetto) ok, I'll have to leave in approximately 10 minutes
+00:20 (@dagger) Qt stuff now?
+00:21 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: did you read what i wrote?
+00:21 (@scarabeus) any objections to that?
+00:21 (joost_op) anybody from our team uses @sabayonlinux.org
+00:21 (@jmbsvicetto) joost_op: we discuss details later with you. We can even schedule some time
+00:21 (joost_op) and each report has been dicussed in our team first
+00:21 -!- panard [n=panard@banquise.backzone.net] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:21 (joost_op) to not overload anybody
+00:21 (joost_op) and to certainly not duplicate work
+00:21 (@jmbsvicetto) scarabeus: no objection
+00:22 (joost_op) allright
+00:22 -!- helch [n=helch@212-41-73-167.adsl.solnet.ch] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+00:22 (@jmbsvicetto) In some cases we might require some testing to duplicate the bug, but we'll address the bugs
+00:22 (joost_op) i'm saying you can abuse me to get things in our yet to make repository
+00:22 (joost_op) where we can heve people to test it
+00:23 (joost_op) *have
+00:23 (@jmbsvicetto) ok, thanks
+00:23 -!- mpagano [n=mpagano@gentoo/developer/mpagano] <- quit ["cya"]
+00:23 (@scarabeus) ok we will address this issue more at more comfy time :]
+00:23 (@scarabeus) now lets get to the qt
+00:23 (@hwoarang) \o/
+00:23 (@hwoarang) ************************** qt meeting *****************************
+00:23 (joost_op) allright, thx
+00:23 (@hwoarang) wake up ppl
+00:23 (+Pesa) :)
+00:23 (@hwoarang) !herd qt
+00:24 (+wired) hwoarang: seriously, we're all here
+00:24 (Willikins) (qt) carlo, hwoarang, tampakrap, yngwin
+00:24 (+wired) :D
+00:24 (@dagger) bear time :)
+00:24 (@hwoarang) spatz: ping
+00:24 (+spatz) pong
+00:24 (@dagger) (not ever beer :p)
+00:24 (@jmbsvicetto) hwoarang: technically it's still the KDE *team* meeting ;)
+00:24 (@hwoarang) well yes :P
+00:24 (@yngwin) ok, first decision: next time separate qt meeting
+00:24 (@hwoarang) i just wanted to wake them up
+00:24 (@hwoarang) :D
+00:24 (@yngwin) this is getting too long for some ppl
+00:24 (+reavertm) I agree
+00:24 -!- Sho_ [n=EHS1@kde/hein] <- quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
+00:24 (@tampakrap) for all
+00:24 (@hwoarang) i think this is the first time the kde one took that long
+00:25 (@scarabeus) yngwin: well the issue is due to we didnt have meeting in 2 months window
+00:25 (+reavertm) we're technical, soory ;)
+00:25 (@yngwin) i know
+00:25 (@jmbsvicetto) yngwin: Do you think it's best to have split meetings or should we have more frequent/shorter meetings?
+00:25 (@scarabeus) good Q
+00:25 (@yngwin) more frequent + shorter
+00:25 (+reavertm) split meeting is good anyway
+00:25 (+papillon81) first of all we should go on with the topics
+00:25 (@hwoarang) +1 yngwin
+00:25 (+reavertm) no need to qt folks to attend to kde meeting anyway unless they're interested
+00:26 (@jmbsvicetto) yngwin: I can live with both and if we keep having the same meeting, qt issues don't (shouldn't) be left for the end
+00:26 (@hwoarang) meeting is supposed to be 'project' wise
+00:26 (@hwoarang) not herd wise
+00:26 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: it is for this time
+00:26 (@scarabeus) jmbsvicetto: next time i can shuffle the topics
+00:26 (@jmbsvicetto) yeah, I'm just opening up other solutions in case people prefer them
+00:26 (@scarabeus) and we can have the meetings often i dont mind :]
+00:26 (@yngwin) alright, lets get on it
+00:26 -!- Civil [n=Civilian@95-24-2-240.broadband.corbina.ru] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+00:27 (@yngwin) we can discuss needs for next meeting tomorrow ;)
+00:27 (@hwoarang) i think we can pass the recruit stuff
+00:27 (@scarabeus) okey
+00:27 (@yngwin) recruits i already mentioned
+00:27 (@yngwin) qt status in tree
+00:27 (@yngwin) 4.5.1 is goibng stable, but arches are slow
+00:27 (@hwoarang) indeed :/
+00:27 -!- Displacer [n=tool@tool.gtn.ru] <- quit ["Leaving"]
+00:27 (+wired) !earch qt-core
+00:27 (Willikins) wired: x11-libs/qt-core 4.4.2[4]: 4.4.2-r2[4]: amd64 hppa ia64 ppc64 sparc x86 4.5.1[4]: alpha ~amd64 ~arm ~hppa ~ia64 ~mips ppc ~ppc64 ~sparc ~x86 ~x86-fbsd
+00:28 (@hwoarang) there is a bug about the -platform . The addition on qt4-build-edge eclass seems to fix it
+00:28  -> hwoarang searches the bug
+00:28 (+wired) bug 266201
+00:28 (Willikins) wired: https://bugs.gentoo.org/266201 "Please mark x11-libs/qt-*-4.5.1 stable [also regression tracker]"; Gentoo Linux, Ebuilds; NEW; yngwin@g.o:qt@g.o
+00:28 (@hwoarang) bug 270475
+00:28 (Willikins) hwoarang: https://bugs.gentoo.org/270475 "x11-libs/qt-4.5 configure guesses arch based on uname"; Gentoo Linux, Ebuilds; NEW; jokey@g.o:qt@g.o
+00:29 -!- emera|d [n=smaragd@p579DE9E7.dip.t-dialin.net] <- quit []
+00:29 (@hwoarang) this bug ( and the proposed solution ) seems to fix the massive errors we had with ppc, chroots, distcc etc
+00:30 (@yngwin) ok, i propose we add arches on that one, and ask their opinion
+00:30 (@jmbsvicetto) It would great if you could get upstream to fix qt-webkit on sparc
+00:30 (+papillon81) there is another patch for qt-gui (already in the qting-edge overlay), that fixes PPC graphics issues and should go to the treee ASAP
+00:30 (@hwoarang) qt-gui is stable on ppc
+00:30 (@jmbsvicetto) We won't be able to get KDE in sparc until qt-webkit is fixed or we can make KDE upstream make it optional
+00:30 (@yngwin) bug number?
+00:30 (+wired) yngwin: ^^ thats the one i've talked to you about
+00:31 (@hwoarang) jmbsvicetto: dont expect this to happen soon
+00:31 (@yngwin) i know, i still havent heard if its so important and why
+00:31 (@hwoarang) upstream is really really slow
+00:31 (+papillon81) yngwin: no bug #
+00:31 (@hwoarang) i really dont think we should do a revbump just for a ppc patch
+00:31 (@hwoarang) cause all other arches will upgrade for nothing
+00:31 (@hwoarang) maybe we can put is 'silently' on stable qt-gui-4.5.1
+00:31 (@hwoarang) *s/is/it
+00:31 (+papillon81) hwoarang: just add it silently :-)
+00:32 (@yngwin) we need a proper bug report
+00:32  -> papillon81 will do it
+00:32 (@tampakrap) well, revbump and tell ppc to stabilize again
+00:32 (@yngwin) because i still dont know what we're talkingf about
+00:32 (@tampakrap) it won't break stable users anywayz
+00:32 (@hwoarang) tampakrap: revbump is wrong
+00:32 (@hwoarang) the rest of arches dont need to emerge qt-gui again
+00:32 (@jmbsvicetto) yngwin / wired: are you asking the bug number for qt-webkit and sparc?
+00:33 (@hwoarang) it is just a ppc patch that can go on the current qt-gui
+00:33 (@tampakrap) i know but there is no other way
+00:33 (@yngwin) ok, we can discuss that on the bug
+00:33 (+wired) jmbsvicetto: no the patch for qt-gui and ppc
+00:33 (@hwoarang) good
+00:33 (@yngwin) jmbsvicetto: no, the ppc issue
+00:33 (@jmbsvicetto) ok
+00:33 (+wired) jmbsvicetto: it doesn't have a bug
+00:34 (@tampakrap) two options, silent update or revbump and restabilize, choose one, i choose the second
+00:34 (@yngwin) ok, other in tree issues?
+00:34 (@hwoarang) scarc issue should go upstream but i am pretty sure it ll take forever even to accept it as valid
+00:34 -!- ali_bush_work [i=cab44391@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e12143e624250926] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:34 (@yngwin) yes, but we can do our duty and report
+00:34 (@hwoarang) yes
+00:34 (@hwoarang) of course
+00:34 (@tampakrap) wait
+00:34 (@tampakrap) the sparc issue is reported by me in gentoo bugzilla long time ago
+00:34 (@tampakrap) i've made some research about it
+00:35 (@hwoarang) yes but did you take it upstream?
+00:35 (@tampakrap) there was actually a patch
+00:35 (@hwoarang) can you ?
+00:35 (@hwoarang) mmm
+00:35 (@yngwin) bug # ?
+00:35 (@tampakrap) but it broke ppc64 i think or something
+00:35 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: The patch wasn't accepted upstream
+00:35 (@tampakrap) of course since it broke ppc64
+00:35 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: And iirc, that bug may also affect alpha (or at least also interests them)
+00:35 (@yngwin) we could apply the patch only on sparc
+00:36 (@tampakrap) yes
+00:36 (@tampakrap) exactly
+00:36 (@hwoarang) sound like an easy work around
+00:36 (@tampakrap) i own a sparc but it will take some time to update it to qt-4.5
+00:36 (@tampakrap) i'll contact sparc herd as well
+00:36 (@hwoarang) ok
+00:36 (@jmbsvicetto) tampakrap: tcunha and jmorgan might be willing to help out with it
+00:37 (@tampakrap) bug 235685
+00:37 (Willikins) https://bugs.gentoo.org/235685 "x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.4.x sigbus on ~sparc"; Gentoo Linux, KDE; NEW; tampakrap@g.o:sparc@g.o
+00:38 (@hwoarang) ok
+00:38 (@yngwin) ok, if you can follow-up on that with sparc arch team
+00:38 (@tampakrap) comment 7 says that it should not be restricted to sparc only
+00:38 -!- B-Man1 [n=B-Man@cpe-098-024-241-139.ec.res.rr.com] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:38 (@tampakrap) i don't know why
+00:38 (+papillon81) bug 270769
+00:38 (Willikins) papillon81: https://bugs.gentoo.org/270769 "x11-libs/qt-gui-4.5.1 PPC endian fix"; Gentoo Linux, Ebuilds; NEW; chrschmitt@gmail.com:bug-wranglers@g.o
+00:38 (@yngwin) tampakrap: could be interesing for other arches too, like alpha
+00:39 (@yngwin) papillon81: tnx
+00:40 (@hwoarang) are we done with bugs?
+00:40 (@yngwin) no
+00:40 (@yngwin) i'd like someone to look at bug 209626
+00:40 (Willikins) yngwin: https://bugs.gentoo.org/209626 "Patches for qt4.eclass and qt4-build.eclass to make them ready for eclass-manpages"; Gentoo Linux, Eclasses and Profiles; NEW; bugs@rennings.net:qt@g.o
+00:41 (@hwoarang) I will take care of it
+00:41 (@yngwin) thanks
+00:41 (@hwoarang) anything else?
+00:42 -!- andreax [n=andreaz@p57B94087.dip.t-dialin.net] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:42 (@yngwin) and is there anyone interested in bug 224951 ?
+00:42 (Willikins) yngwin: https://bugs.gentoo.org/224951 "[Tracker] dev-ruby/qt4-qtruby issues"; Gentoo Linux, Applications; NEW; unnamedrambler@gmail.com:ruby@g.o
+00:42 -!- Friesia [n=speckius@212.113.107.78] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+00:42 (@yngwin) it has been hardmasked (all versions) in tree for a while now
+00:42 (@hwoarang) brrrrrrrrrrrrr ruby
+00:43 (@yngwin) well, i think we should fix it or schedule for removal
+00:43 (@hwoarang) we can ping ruby herd again
+00:43 (@hwoarang) as reach a common decision
+00:43 (@hwoarang) *and
+00:44 (@yngwin) i started doing some testing on 2.x version, but didnt get far
+00:44 (+wired) i could give it a try as well
+00:44 (@hwoarang) we can add it on overlay and start playing
+00:44 (@yngwin) i needs work (which means time)
+00:44 (@yngwin) ok, i'll add what i have to overlay
+00:44 (@hwoarang) ok
+00:44 (+wired) =]
+00:44 (@hwoarang) bug 236341 needs some love as well
+00:44 (Willikins) hwoarang: https://bugs.gentoo.org/236341 "PyQt4 has automagic dependencies"; Gentoo Linux, Ebuilds; REOP; alessandro.guido@gmail.com:qt@g.o
+00:45 (@hwoarang) i think me and Pesa will get this done soon
+00:45 (+Pesa) i'm working on that one
+00:45 (@yngwin) nice
+00:45 (@hwoarang) sweet
+00:45 (@hwoarang) i cant see anything else
+00:45 (+Pesa) btw, bug 251997 was fixed some time ago
+00:45 (Willikins) Pesa: https://bugs.gentoo.org/251997 "net-im/psi: pre-stripped files found"; Gentoo Linux, Ebuilds; NEW; flameeyes@g.o:welp@g.o
+00:45 -!- andreax1 [n=andreaz@p57B9556B.dip.t-dialin.net] <- quit [Operation timed out]
+00:45 (+Pesa) please mark as such :)
+00:45 (@yngwin) ok, we can close that?
+00:45 (@hwoarang) yes indeed
+00:45 (+Pesa) yep
+00:46 (+Pesa) fixed by a change in eqmake4
+00:46 (@yngwin) done
+00:46 (@hwoarang) \o/
+00:46 (+Pesa) thanks
+00:46 (@hwoarang) any other bugs?
+00:46 (@yngwin) what about the embedded stuff
+00:47 (@hwoarang) tricky
+00:47 (@hwoarang) qt-embedded?
+00:47 (@yngwin) esp https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43827#c9
+00:48 (@hwoarang) we can contact him
+00:48 (@yngwin) maybe we should contact him and see if he still wants to maintain it
+00:48 (@hwoarang) and ask him to be proxy mantainer
+00:48 (@yngwin) then add it to overlay or tree
+00:48 (@yngwin) indeed
+00:48  -> hwoarang noted
+00:48 (@hwoarang) I will contact him
+00:48 (@yngwin) ok, on to overlay then?
+00:49 -!- panard [n=panard@banquise.backzone.net] <- quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
+00:49 (@hwoarang) sorry?
+00:49 (@tampakrap) yes
+00:49 (@yngwin) next point on agenda
+00:49 (@hwoarang) we are moving on?
+00:49 (@hwoarang) ok
+00:49 (@hwoarang) Pesa: spatz
+00:49 (@hwoarang) are you guys using qt live ebuilds?
+00:49 (+Pesa) no
+00:49 (+spatz) nope
+00:49 -!- Guest36992 [n=red@lounge.datux.nl] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:49 (@tampakrap) i am
+00:50 (@hwoarang) ok
+00:50 (+papillon81) me
+00:50 (+reavertm) i use qt-copy in chroot
+00:50 (@hwoarang) so we need to see who maintains what
+00:50 (@hwoarang) i do maintain 4.5.9999 (both qt-copy and nokias )
+00:50 (@yngwin) i use latest release
+00:50 (+reavertm) but I'm no longer maintaing those...
+00:50 (@hwoarang) that is 4.9999?
+00:50 (@hwoarang) wired: is on 4.9999
+00:50 (+wired) i test 4.999 and 4.5.9999[-qt-copy
+00:50 (@yngwin) 4.9999 is nokia qt git trunk
+00:50 (+wired) i test 4.999 and 4.5.9999[-qt-copy]
+00:51 -!- panard [n=panard@2a01:e35:8a09:e130:2e0:61ff:fe11:7adb] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:51 (@hwoarang) so we are ok on that
+00:51 -!- Polynomial-C [n=Poly-C@gentoo/developer/Polynomial-C] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+00:51 (+wired) nokia
+00:51 (+wired) 4.6 trunk and 4.5 trunk ^^ :)
+00:51 -!- Hello_World [n=koukos@ip-83-212-218-40.adsl.aueb.gr] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:51 (@hwoarang) ok so we re ok on qt libe ebuilds
+00:52 (@hwoarang) *live
+00:52 (+wired) we should discuss what will happen to the RDEPEND in qt4-edge-build
+00:52 (@hwoarang) yes
+00:52 (+wired) are we moving that in tree?
+00:52 (@yngwin) is it tested enough?
+00:52 (+wired) today tampakrap had yet another issue
+00:52 -!- UT2K3 [n=UT2K3@212.86.209.81] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+00:53 (@hwoarang) what about the paludis support
+00:53 (+wired) yngwin: so far it seems safe on my tests
+00:53 (+wired) paludis doesn't like it but thats only because ciaran doesn't want to implement blocks the same way portage does
+00:53 (@yngwin) paludis seems to be broken at this point
+00:53 -!- Polynomial-C [n=Poly-C@gentoo/developer/Polynomial-C] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:53 (@bonsaikitten) hwoarang: why do we care?
+00:53 (@hwoarang) cause i cant stand the trolls tomorrow
+00:54 -!- bschindl [n=quassel@77-56-156-71.dclient.hispeed.ch] <- quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
+00:54 (+wired) no trolls
+00:54 (@hwoarang) if you know what i mean
+00:54 (+wired) actually
+00:54 (@bonsaikitten) so ignore them
+00:54 (@bonsaikitten) "WORKSFORME" is a great defense ;)
+00:54 (+wired) this is one of the few cases where he didn't complain
+00:54 (@hwoarang) in this case we can proceed
+00:54 (+wired) i think the way this works is valid and paludis should adapt if it wants to work
+00:54 (@hwoarang) the solution is pretty clean and easily revertable
+00:55 (@hwoarang) yngwin: what do you think
+00:55 (@yngwin) i dont think there is a better solution
+00:55 -!- termite47384 [n=me@cpe-066-057-082-106.nc.res.rr.com] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+00:55 -!- mode/#gentoo-kde [+v termite47384] by ChanServ
+00:55 (@hwoarang) ok then we can proceed
+00:55 (@yngwin) if we talk about eclass functionality anyway
+00:55 (+wired) ok then it should go to qt4-build along with anything else we decide to migrate
+00:55 (@yngwin) what about other stuff we want to move to tree
+00:56 (@hwoarang) well
+00:56 (@hwoarang) qt4-build can use -platform as discussed before
+00:56 (@hwoarang) but that should take a while
+00:56 (@yngwin) yes
+00:56 (@hwoarang) we need to invite arches on that bug
+00:56 (@hwoarang) i have nothing else to propose for qt4-build
+00:57 (@hwoarang) i think this eclass has been reviewed recently
+00:57 (@hwoarang) just before pushing qt-4.5.0_rc1
+00:57 (@yngwin) we need to remove custom-cxxflags when 4.5.2 goes in
+00:57 (@hwoarang) yes
+00:58 (@hwoarang) this use flag has been dropped on overlay. Works ok .
+00:58 (@hwoarang) we are safe to drop it when 4.5.2 arrives
+00:58 (@yngwin) good, let's not forget
+00:58  -> hwoarang noted
+00:58 (@yngwin) what about qt4.eclass
+00:58 (@hwoarang) Pesa: here we are
+00:58 (@hwoarang) :D
+00:59 (+Pesa) heh
+00:59 (@yngwin) we wanted qt4-edge -> qt4-ng or something?
+00:59 (@hwoarang) i think that you pushed a default src_configure and src_install in the past
+00:59 (@hwoarang) but you revert it
+00:59 (@hwoarang) why?
+00:59 (@yngwin) we had to
+00:59 (@hwoarang) brakeages?
+00:59 (@yngwin) it broke stuff all over the place
+00:59 (@hwoarang) right
+01:00 (@hwoarang) i cant understand how
+01:00 (@hwoarang) since src_install is always overriden
+01:00 (@yngwin) so i do want that back in, but we need it in a separate eclass, so existing ebuilds can be migrated slowly
+01:00 (@hwoarang) but lets play it safe
+01:00 (@hwoarang) ok
+01:00 (+Pesa) isn't it possible to have a drop-in replacement?
+01:00 (@hwoarang) meaning?
+01:01 -!- smorg [n=quassel@75-168-239-242.mpls.qwest.net] <- quit ["http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."]
+01:01 (+Pesa) a revised qt4.eclass, but maintaining backward compatibility
+01:01 (@yngwin) no, because we require eapi-2 and have new default functionality such as src_configure in there
+01:01 (@hwoarang) we cant
+01:01 -!- smorg [n=quassel@75-168-239-242.mpls.qwest.net] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+01:01 (@hwoarang) how about maintain eqmake4 on qt4.eclass and inherit that eclass on the new one?
+01:02 (@hwoarang) just to avoid mantaining 2 eqmake4
+01:02 (@yngwin) hmm, i dont like the added level of complexity
+01:02 (+Pesa) i agree with yngwin
+01:03  -> hwoarang is thinking
+01:03 (+spatz) is qt4-edge to be merged as-is? at least the translations stuff seems broken on many packages and fixing after merge can be problematic
+01:03 (+Pesa) it'd be better to have a eqmake4.eclass inherited by both the new and the old qt4 eclasses
+01:03 (@hwoarang) the translations part is experimental
+01:04 (+Pesa) spatz: i don't think so
+01:04 (@hwoarang) yngwin:  cant we open a tracker
+01:04 (@hwoarang) about the brakeages?
+01:04 (+spatz) Pesa: which part?
+01:04 (@yngwin) what breakages?
+01:04 (@hwoarang) which are caused by the new eclass?
+01:05 (@hwoarang) in case we push it as qt4.eclass
+01:05 (+Pesa) spatz: well, src_configure() needs improvements imho
+01:05 (@yngwin) only if we dont touch the original eclass, we can't break stable stuff
+01:06 (@hwoarang) introducing the default src_configure and src_install will brake some packages
+01:06 (@hwoarang) we can track them on bugzilla
+01:06 (@hwoarang) on a special tracker
+01:06 (@yngwin) what i propose is to add the new eclass, and mark the old one as deprecated and make a tracker for migration to new eclass
+01:06 (+Pesa) yeah
+01:06 (@tampakrap) ^^nice
+01:06 (+wired) yngwin++
+01:07 (+wired) qt4-v2.eclass?
+01:07 (@hwoarang) nah
+01:07 (@hwoarang) we need a pretty cool name
+01:07 (@hwoarang) :P
+01:07 (@yngwin) we had qt4-ng in mind
+01:07 (@hwoarang) -ng sounds ok
+01:07 (+wired) keep in mind one day we might have another big-bad-ass revision
+01:07 (+wired) lets stick a number in there
+01:07 (@yngwin) yeah, so i'm open for suggestions
+01:07 (@tampakrap) qt4-r1.eclass?
+01:07 (+wired) -r1 isn't bad either
+01:08 (@yngwin) inherit qt4-r1
+01:08 (@hwoarang) nah
+01:08 (@hwoarang) ugly
+01:08 (@hwoarang) :P
+01:08 (@yngwin) i'm not sure i like that
+01:08 (+wired) i prefer qt4-v2
+01:08 (+wired) inherit qt4-v2
+01:08 (kage-ookami) qt4-2nd
+01:08 (@yngwin) qt4-edition2009
+01:08 (@hwoarang) ..
+01:08 (@yngwin) just brainstorming
+01:08 (+spatz) qt4-home_premium
+01:08 (@tampakrap) qt4_pre20090521
+01:08 (+wired) lol
+01:08 (@yngwin) well, that's bikeshedding, can be done tomorrow
+01:09 (+wired) qt4-try2
+01:09 (+wired) :D
+01:09 (@hwoarang) ok
+01:09 (@tampakrap) qt4_thepreviousonewasFAIL
+01:09 (@yngwin) but we agree on principle?
+01:09 (@tampakrap) yes
+01:09 (+wired) i think its the best approach yeah
+01:09 (@hwoarang) ok
+01:09 -!- joost_op [n=joost@86.92.194.222] <- quit ["Leaving"]
+01:09 (+Pesa) i do, if my opinion counts
+01:09 (@yngwin) it does :)
+01:09 (@hwoarang) also Pesa and me are working on eqmake4 patch, to automatically guesses the project name so we can have a more generic src_configure
+01:09 (@yngwin) translation stuff still needs work?
+01:10 (@hwoarang) yes
+01:10 (+Pesa) can be made more generic i think
+01:10 (@hwoarang) i have two ebuilds that I still want to migrate on that
+01:10 (@yngwin) ok, so lets work on it in overlay, and see in a few weeks time or so
+01:10 (@hwoarang) Pesa: i ll add the second patch, then feel free to play  :)
+01:11 (@yngwin) anything about other packages in overlay?
+01:11 (@hwoarang) the current status seems ok
+01:11 (+Pesa) hwoarang: with '.' instead of ${S} though!
+01:11 (@tampakrap) i can take care of live ones
+01:11 (@hwoarang) yes :)
+01:11 (@hwoarang) i ve moved many packages on tree
+01:11 (@hwoarang) and kept the live ones
+01:11 (+Pesa) fine then
+01:12 (@yngwin) what about qtjambi
+01:12 (@yngwin) shouldnt that go to tree as well?
+01:12 (@yngwin) 4.5.0 that is
+01:12 (+Pesa) i added 4.5.0_p1 to the overlay
+01:12 (@hwoarang) does it work?
+01:12 (@hwoarang) or it needs further testing
+01:12 (+Pesa) worksforme :D
+01:12 (@yngwin) it's java, how would i know if it works?
+01:12 (+wired) lol
+01:12 (@yngwin) :p
+01:13 (+wired) yngwin: actually the correct answer would be
+01:13 (@hwoarang) so what can we do with it
+01:13 (+wired) its java, ofcourse not
+01:13 (+Pesa) seriously, it has huge improvements over portage version
+01:13 (+wired) :D
+01:13 (@yngwin) who maintains it in portage again
+01:13 -!- bschindler [n=quassel@77-56-156-71.dclient.hispeed.ch] <- quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
+01:14 (@hwoarang) !meta -v qtjambi
+01:14 (Willikins) hwoarang: Package: dev-java/qtjambi Herd: qt, java Maintainer: qt, java
+01:14 (@hwoarang) we do
+01:14 (@hwoarang) :P
+01:14 (+wired) lolz
+01:14 (@dagger) lol ;)
+01:14 (@yngwin) ali_bush it seems from changelog
+01:15 (@yngwin) ok, maybe confer with him
+01:15  -> hwoarang noted
+01:15 (@yngwin) then we can bump
+01:15 (@hwoarang) i ll poke him as long as he is available
+01:15 (@hwoarang) *as soon as
+01:15 (@hwoarang) stupid beer
+01:16 (@yngwin) heh
+01:16 (@jmbsvicetto) ok, I really need to leave now. See you later
+01:16 -!- Guest36992 [n=red@lounge.datux.nl] <- quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
+01:16 (@hwoarang) bye bye jmbsvicetto
+01:16 (@yngwin) ok, see you jmbsvicetto
+01:16 -!- sean345 [n=quassel@c-76-105-5-254.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+01:16 (+wired) bye jmbsvicetto
+01:16 (@hwoarang) ok i think we are done with the overlay
+01:16 (@yngwin) on to last point?
+01:16 (+Pesa) bye jmbsvicetto
+01:16 (ali_bush_work) you talking to me :)
+01:16 (+spatz) have fun :)
+01:16 (@hwoarang) ah
+01:16 (@hwoarang) there he is
+01:16 (@yngwin) ali_bush_work: yes, we have qtjambi-4.5.0_p1 in overlay
+01:17 (ali_bush_work) cool.  does it work
+01:17 -!- Guest36992 [n=red@lounge.datux.nl] joins -> #gentoo-kde
+01:17 (@hwoarang) lol :)
+01:17 (@yngwin) [00:12:52] <yngwin> it's java, how would i know if it works?
+01:17 (@yngwin) ;)
+01:17 (@yngwin) but Pesa says it does
+01:18 (ali_bush_work) i'll put it on my todo list :)
+01:18 -!- anselmolsm [n=anselmo@200.184.118.130] <- quit [Remote closed the connection]
+01:18 (@yngwin) alright
+01:18 (ali_bush_work) ETC next century
+01:18 (@hwoarang) goodie
+01:18 (@hwoarang) no rush :P
+01:18 (+Pesa) ali_bush_work: yes, demos and examples work, and also qtdesigner integration
+01:18 (@yngwin) we can bump, and let you deal with the bugs :p
+01:19 (@yngwin) but if Pesa says it works, i trust him
+01:19 (+Pesa) ali_bush_work: and there are tons of other improvements
+01:19 (ali_bush_work) ok cool.  I will qa the ebuild just too make sure if follows our standards
+01:20 (@hwoarang) sweet
+01:20 (+Pesa) thanks
+01:20 -!- geo27 [n=quassel@lns-bzn-56-82-255-250-237.adsl.proxad.net] <- quit [No route to host]
+01:20 (@hwoarang) ok last topic
+01:20 (@hwoarang) leader? :/
+01:20 (@yngwin) do we need an elected lead?
+01:20 (@hwoarang) what for
+01:20 (@yngwin) now that we're a fast growing team
+01:21 (@tampakrap) jmbsvicetto is the project leader, scarabeus is KDE HT Lead and yngwin is Qt HT lead
+01:21 (@yngwin) well, i thought i would put it before you
+01:21 (@tampakrap) i think that is enough
+01:21 (@hwoarang) i cant see the reason :)
+01:21 (@yngwin) because i just assumed the position, when no-one was looking
+01:21 (@hwoarang) i am pretty happy with the current situation
+01:22 (@hwoarang) maybe we should discuss it again in July
+01:22 (@yngwin) but if you guys are happy with it
+01:22 (@hwoarang) before we leave
+01:22 (kage-ookami) yngwin: sometimes it takes a person to just assume the position
+01:22 (@yngwin) i know
+01:23 (@hwoarang) so the answer is NO
+01:23 (+spatz) if it works don't fix it
+01:23 (@hwoarang) you ll stay the leader either you like it or not
+01:23 (@yngwin) ok
+01:23 (@hwoarang) </end_of_topic>
+01:23 (+wired) yngwin QT leader woot =]
+01:23 (@scarabeus) :D
+01:23 (@yngwin) </end_of_meeting>
+01:23 (@scarabeus) okey
+01:23 (@scarabeus) :D
+01:23 (@hwoarang) -------------------
+01:23 (+Pesa) :D
+01:23 (@hwoarang) omg
+01:24 (@hwoarang) 3:30 hours
+01:24 (@hwoarang) jesus!
+01:24 (@yngwin) holy mother
+01:24 (+wired) closer to 3 hours actually
+01:24 (+spatz) back to homework :/
+01:24 (+wired) but still!
+01:24  -> yngwin hands out more cookies
+01:24 (+wired) scarabeus: you want log?
+01:24 (@yngwin) wired: CC me as well please
+01:24 (@tampakrap) does it need rendering?
+01:25 (@yngwin) i'll do summary for Qt part
+01:25 (@hwoarang) ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
+01:25 (@hwoarang) btw
+01:25 (@hwoarang) for those who havent noticed
+01:25 -!- tampakrap topic of #gentoo-kde ->> Gentoo KDE | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | p.keywords: http://xrl.us/kdekeyw | Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help? http://tinyurl.com/gktodo | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | Want to test KDE4 on a kvm? http://tinyurl.com/by7tv3 | KDE 4.2.87in kde-testing! | SitRep: SNAFU
+01:25 (@hwoarang) i ve wrote this guide http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/qt4-based-ebuild-howto.xml
+01:25 (@hwoarang) so any additions etc are welcomed
diff --git a/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20090521.txt b/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20090521.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..30f2add
--- /dev/null
+++ b/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20090521.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+21.5.2009 - KDE Meeting
+Roll-call: wired, alexxy, scarabeus, dagger, hwoarang, tampakrap, bonsaikitten, krytzz, yngwin, civil, papillon81, reavertm, lxnay, cryos, jmbsvicetto
+
+Cryos legitimely excused from not attending much, new baby on the route. Grats to him! :]
+
+Doc handling
+- doc == aplication handbook or handbook, to be decided...
+- enable +doc/handbook by default for kde-base
+- aplication api documentation - scarabeus write mail asking for some global useflag for it on -dev
+- rename doc useflag to handbook with 4.3 again :D
+- make it more handleable by eclass rather than in the ebuilds
+- lxnay volunteer to do the packages update in overlay
+- so priority coruse is:
+  - mail to dev asking how to do it
+  - wait a bit and if nothing constructive comes up do the rename for 4.3
+
+kde3
+- kill arts, all misc apps needs it removed and be stabled before 3.5.10 stabling
+- stable 3.5.10, all kde related misc apps needs to be revbumped/verbumped and stabled before it
+- tampakrap starts handling 3.5.10 stabilisation - stable bug asap 15.6. deadline
+- writing doc about kde3/4 mixing - tampakrap
+
+kdeprefix
+- long discussion about support of kde4 +kdeprefix install in kde3 and gnome, will chat with reaver about it on aproperiate bug
+- add ewarn for user when installing with +kdeprefix so we assure he knows what he is messing with. (controled same like live warning)
+
+kde 4.3
+- libknotification already handled, pdepend for kdelibs.
+- policykit looks ok
+- so no much work for 4.3 itself
+
+kde/kde3 useflag
+we voted about it, result:
+kde - latest supported kde 4, 5, whatever
+kde3 - for now kde 3 series, when kde5 is out there will be kde4 useflag and so on,...
+as long as new version is expected to be highly experimental we will have kdeX where X is the version number. When proper support in portage arrives it mutate into kde and older kde mutate to kdeY where Y is X-1
+
+phonon
+- ship snapshot into the tree with kde 4.3
+- separating xine part to be able use qt-phonon instead of normal phonon with kde - probably reaver
+
+CODE:
+improve it, and add requirements we find out that are needed
+since next meeting the code will be considered final, and not folowing it will be punished
+
+relwithdebuginfo:
+deffered after some work on it, not worth efforts
+
+GUIDE:
+tampakrap promised to write the guide for kde3/4 mix that will cover also kde4 installing
+
+kdebindings:
+scarabeus + reaver: invent some logic there; delegate work to other HTs
+
+sabayon:
+discuss the topic more with joost_op at some other more convinient time
+so far done ->
+bugs from ppl with @sabayonlinux.org will be handled legitimely as our bugs
+and we will reflect them as HTs for kde team so we dont have recheck reported things (aka we trust sabayon devs :})
+