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diff --git a/meeting-logs/20081204.txt b/meeting-logs/20081204.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..e4c2b60 --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/20081204.txt @@ -0,0 +1,641 @@ +2008 Dec 04 20:01:04 <scarabeus> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde_meeting0812.txt +2008 Dec 04 20:01:11 <scarabeus> time is here +2008 Dec 04 20:01:13 <scarabeus> so who is around? +2008 Dec 04 20:01:23 -*- tampakrap +2008 Dec 04 20:01:26 -*- bonsaikitten +2008 Dec 04 20:01:43 <scarabeus> !herd kde +2008 Dec 04 20:01:44 <Willikins> (kde) caleb, carlo, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, mattepiu, scarabeus, tgurr +2008 Dec 04 20:01:54 <scarabeus> guys you should all show up :] +2008 Dec 04 20:01:54 -*- krytzz +2008 Dec 04 20:02:01 <keytoaster> hi there! +2008 Dec 04 20:02:22 -*- jmbsvicetto +2008 Dec 04 20:02:40 <scarabeus> krytzz, Sput: you two around? +2008 Dec 04 20:02:42 -*- cryos|work is here +2008 Dec 04 20:02:49 <krytzz> yes +2008 Dec 04 20:03:20 <scarabeus> ok i think that is most we can get, any words from others, stating that they show up too? +2008 Dec 04 20:03:35 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: No idea +2008 Dec 04 20:03:49 <bonsaikitten> I guess we should let their backlog do its work ;) +2008 Dec 04 20:04:02 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: About your agenda, we should start with a "simple" point - who is still working / willing to work with KDE 3.5 +2008 Dec 04 20:04:10 <tampakrap> me +2008 Dec 04 20:04:15 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: That doesn't work with caleb and carlo ;) +2008 Dec 04 20:04:28 <cryos|work> I am somewhat, but with limited time... +2008 Dec 04 20:04:31 <bonsaikitten> as long as it is only ebuild maintenance and not C++ stabbing I'm willing to keep it alive +2008 Dec 04 20:04:41 <bonsaikitten> but I have no interest in 3.5 anymore :) +2008 Dec 04 20:04:48 <tampakrap> i said i still use kde3 in my main desktop and wanted to have various tests about that and check bugs of course +2008 Dec 04 20:04:54 <tampakrap> but i was busy with the quiz +2008 Dec 04 20:04:55 -*- cryos|work has waning interest in it... +2008 Dec 04 20:05:18 <bonsaikitten> our users want it, so those primitives have to be kept happy ;) +2008 Dec 04 20:05:41 <scarabeus> yes i would say it is requirement to have kde3 around until kde4.3 +2008 Dec 04 20:05:42 --> MartyMcFly (n=martin@dslb-088-064-190-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:06:00 <bonsaikitten> maybe even longer. if 3.5 is stable enough maintenance should be cheap +2008 Dec 04 20:06:01 <krytzz> yes +2008 Dec 04 20:06:03 <jmbsvicetto> I'm not saying we should drop 3.5, I'm asking who is willing to keep it alive ;) +2008 Dec 04 20:06:05 <cryos|work> Quite probably, but it is essentially dead upstream. +2008 Dec 04 20:06:07 <scarabeus> jkt|: maybe you will be interested in this too +2008 Dec 04 20:06:20 -=- hwoarang is now known as hwo[a]rang +2008 Dec 04 20:06:25 <cryos|work> I will do what I can to help. +2008 Dec 04 20:06:28 <jmbsvicetto> Also, who is willing to work on the issues caused by the mixing of 3.5 with 4 +2008 Dec 04 20:06:44 <tampakrap> me :) +2008 Dec 04 20:06:44 <cryos|work> I have noted many distros already dropping it in new releases. Just keeping unported apps around. +2008 Dec 04 20:07:08 <scarabeus> cryos|work: people would hate us, kde4 is not yet ready, even i miss some features +2008 Dec 04 20:07:10 <bonsaikitten> I guess all of us will be hybrid users as noone goes back to a 3.5 desktop anymore :) +2008 Dec 04 20:07:16 <cryos|work> I will help when I can, I think I may have neglected to pick up all the pieces... +2008 Dec 04 20:07:34 --> reavertm (n=maciek@bcv18.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:07:34 <bonsaikitten> cryos|work: life happened. don't beat yourself up for that :) +2008 Dec 04 20:07:48 <cryos|work> scarabeus: I am not talking about dropping it, I am however pointing out the deadness of upstream in that sense and what other distros are tending to do. +2008 Dec 04 20:08:08 <scarabeus> i understand. +2008 Dec 04 20:08:12 <cryos|work> Thanks bonsaikitten ;-) +2008 Dec 04 20:08:13 <reavertm> (if I'm out again it means my hardware is failing again, don't bother) +2008 Dec 04 20:08:17 <-- duog (n=doug@78-86-178-196.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has quit (Remote closed the connection) +2008 Dec 04 20:08:22 <cryos|work> We should keep an eye on what is happening elsewhere. +2008 Dec 04 20:08:22 -=- Mode #gentoo-kde [+v reavertm] by scarabeus +2008 Dec 04 20:08:35 <bonsaikitten> so we'll keep it alive, but there's a good chance we won't give it high priority +2008 Dec 04 20:09:03 <scarabeus> agreed, on low priority i think we can handle this, and we should be closing up enhancement request for kde3 +2008 Dec 04 20:09:10 <scarabeus> since it would be just pointless work +2008 Dec 04 20:09:24 <-- hvengel (n=hvengel@astound-66-234-194-11.ca.astound.net) has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) +2008 Dec 04 20:09:42 <bonsaikitten> mostly agree +2008 Dec 04 20:09:53 <reavertm> kde page stated along with some kde4 release announcement: "Don't look back" :) +2008 Dec 04 20:09:55 <tampakrap> after all kde4.2 is close and will be stable enough +2008 Dec 04 20:10:31 <scarabeus> ok so lets mark kde3 as work for cryos and tampakrap, i think you two can talk out what is needed on that field +2008 Dec 04 20:10:38 <scarabeus> anyone else willing to jump on kde3? +2008 Dec 04 20:10:57 <tampakrap> i don't think we need more people +2008 Dec 04 20:11:05 <tampakrap> let's focus on kde4 "the future" +2008 Dec 04 20:11:09 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: Yes, a dead upstream (3.5) and their lack of work to keep more than one version around are the most important cause of the open bugs - imho +2008 Dec 04 20:11:43 <-- St_MPA3b (n=quassel@gregory51.dialup.corbina.ru) has quit ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.") +2008 Dec 04 20:11:49 <cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: Certainly, and so the distros are forced to move along with them unless they have considerable resources. +2008 Dec 04 20:11:55 --> St_MPA3b (n=quassel@gregory51.dialup.corbina.ru) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:12:01 <reavertm> well, upstream simply has no manpower to maintaint both +2008 Dec 04 20:12:07 <bonsaikitten> cryos|work: never underestimate gentoo users ;) +2008 Dec 04 20:12:07 <cryos|work> There was some talk of a distro maintained patch set but I haven't seen mention of it recently. +2008 Dec 04 20:12:24 <scarabeus> cryos|work: ask arch linux team +2008 Dec 04 20:12:25 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: For 3.5? +2008 Dec 04 20:12:31 <scarabeus> they have probably best kde3 team around +2008 Dec 04 20:12:33 <scarabeus> currently +2008 Dec 04 20:12:43 <scarabeus> their kdemod is epic +2008 Dec 04 20:13:06 <St_MPA3b> htmlhandbook provides whole help or only some additional files? +2008 Dec 04 20:13:20 <scarabeus> St_MPA3b: whole help +2008 Dec 04 20:13:33 <St_MPA3b> scarabeus: thanks +2008 Dec 04 20:13:55 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: talking about htmlhandbook, I ended up not moving it away from ebuilds and into the eclass :\ +2008 Dec 04 20:13:57 <St_MPA3b> scarabeus: and there are currently no file collisions if htmlhandbook is turned off? +2008 Dec 04 20:15:11 <St_MPA3b> in @kde-live +2008 Dec 04 20:15:30 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well that goes for next point of meeting +2008 Dec 04 20:15:33 <scarabeus> kde4 eclasses +2008 Dec 04 20:15:40 <scarabeus> i heavily rewrote them +2008 Dec 04 20:15:48 <scarabeus> applied some suggestions from jmbsvicetto +2008 Dec 04 20:15:53 <reavertm> (again?) +2008 Dec 04 20:15:55 --> breiti (n=breiti@p5DD69917.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:15:57 <scarabeus> any moar points to them +2008 Dec 04 20:16:04 <St_MPA3b> when there will be commit? +2008 Dec 04 20:16:13 <scarabeus> reavertm: they are still the same, it was not yet accepted. +2008 Dec 04 20:16:52 <cryos|work> So what are the main changes made? +2008 Dec 04 20:17:12 <scarabeus> mostly we allow dynamic detection for kde4 +2008 Dec 04 20:17:23 <scarabeus> so apps can work with kde4.1 and kde4.2 and live +2008 Dec 04 20:17:25 <scarabeus> no matter what +2008 Dec 04 20:17:32 <St_MPA3b> nice +2008 Dec 04 20:17:32 <scarabeus> eclasses handles all deps correctly +2008 Dec 04 20:17:40 <scarabeus> also i removed most of not required code +2008 Dec 04 20:17:41 <cryos|work> Which one are they linking too/building against? +2008 Dec 04 20:17:45 <jmbsvicetto> This is a bad thing(tm) in design, but I don't have a better alternative +2008 Dec 04 20:18:21 <scarabeus> cryos|work: well now you can specify which kde it needs as minimal and then specify search order for other kde versions +2008 Dec 04 20:18:26 <scarabeus> basicly it preffers -kdeprefix +2008 Dec 04 20:18:34 <reavertm> (actually one guy had problems with updating from 4.1.2 to 4.1.3 with -kdeprefix using portage eclasses and kde-crazy ones didn't help +2008 Dec 04 20:18:45 <cryos|work> If they build/link against the latest version installed, they may not link to an earlier version, if it builds against old that doesn't have new symbols it won't compile. +2008 Dec 04 20:18:46 <reavertm> it may still need some checks +2008 Dec 04 20:19:12 <scarabeus> cryos|work: that all can be ebuld specified +2008 Dec 04 20:19:21 <-- mx-tvt (n=costa@175.230.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) has quit (Remote closed the connection) +2008 Dec 04 20:19:23 <cryos|work> That is why I have always erred on the side of saying this is possible but a support nightmare. +2008 Dec 04 20:19:37 <scarabeus> reavertm: he had fucked up kdesvn eclasses i guess, since we used that slot loong ago +2008 Dec 04 20:19:41 <cryos|work> If it seems to work that is great though. +2008 Dec 04 20:19:55 <scarabeus> yeah it works for all overlay guys +2008 Dec 04 20:20:06 <scarabeus> and also my eclass supports koffice +2008 Dec 04 20:20:07 <cryos|work> I think in general they should build/link against oldest installed version that satisfies the deps. +2008 Dec 04 20:20:13 <scarabeus> which i can maintain with bonsaikittens help +2008 Dec 04 20:20:17 <scarabeus> if he is still interested +2008 Dec 04 20:20:19 <cryos|work> If KDE devs did their job well it will link to the latest version. +2008 Dec 04 20:20:21 <scarabeus> koffice2 +2008 Dec 04 20:20:41 <krytzz> i could help there too a little bit +2008 Dec 04 20:20:41 <scarabeus> cryos|work: that is default behavior +2008 Dec 04 20:20:42 <cryos|work> So if we are planning on supporting it that should be the default behaviour. +2008 Dec 04 20:20:52 <cryos|work> That sounds good to me then. +2008 Dec 04 20:21:00 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There are a few things about get_latest_kdedir. That function shouldn't have hardcoded version strings - they should instead be defined in a var like KDE_SLOTS +2008 Dec 04 20:21:02 <scarabeus> but dev can specify other order in ebuild +2008 Dec 04 20:21:31 <cryos|work> OK, but I would discourage them from doing that unless they have an amazing reason to do so. +2008 Dec 04 20:21:33 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well enjoy its updating :] i will be hapy to see help from others :], i have no idea how to use it best, so i did it this way +2008 Dec 04 20:21:50 <scarabeus> cryos|work: all written in comments for those variables +2008 Dec 04 20:21:56 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Yeah, I'll see what I can do about it +2008 Dec 04 20:22:52 <cryos|work> Sounds fine, we just need to stick to some policies for in tree stuff at least. +2008 Dec 04 20:23:08 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus / cryos|work: Most of the issues that we're having (besides the linking to a versioned dir) is that upstream is breaking ABI continuously for KDE4, right? +2008 Dec 04 20:23:09 <scarabeus> i use it for in tree stuff just fine +2008 Dec 04 20:23:14 --> NSaibot (n=quassel@i3ED6C704.versanet.de) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:23:18 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: right +2008 Dec 04 20:23:33 <-- NSaibot (n=quassel@i3ED6C704.versanet.de) has quit (Remote closed the connection) +2008 Dec 04 20:23:46 <scarabeus> cryos|work: i will run some test tomorow and fix all remaining compatibility problems +2008 Dec 04 20:24:10 <cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: Yeah, but they promised not to after 4.1. I guess they are failing... +2008 Dec 04 20:24:23 --> non7top (n=non7top@77.66.156.160) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:24:25 <jmbsvicetto> Oh, an important point about the eclasses - are we ready to block kde4 eclasses for EAPI-0 and EAPI-1? +2008 Dec 04 20:24:30 <cryos|work> I am talking at Camp KDE 2009 too - KDE and Gentoo. +2008 Dec 04 20:24:43 <krytzz> cool ^^ +2008 Dec 04 20:24:47 <scarabeus> i volte for only eapi2 +2008 Dec 04 20:24:54 --> NSaibot (n=quassel@i3ED6C704.versanet.de) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:24:57 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: EAPI-2 or later ;) +2008 Dec 04 20:25:00 <scarabeus> yes +2008 Dec 04 20:25:39 <cryos|work> Can we block change the EAPI on an existing in tree e-class? Don't we need to maintain backwards compatibility on eclasses? +2008 Dec 04 20:26:08 <cryos|work> That is a question as I can't remember what the policy is. +2008 Dec 04 20:26:09 <scarabeus> cryos|work: well packages will be broken if they use eapi lower than 2 and our eclass even currently +2008 Dec 04 20:26:13 <scarabeus> so we should block it +2008 Dec 04 20:26:24 <jmbsvicetto> That would allow us to drop the QT4_BUILT_WITH_USE_CHECK, KDE4_BUILT_WITH_USE_CHECK and friends +2008 Dec 04 20:26:33 <-- fedux (n=fedux@host157.190-137-19.telecom.net.ar) has quit ("Saliendo") +2008 Dec 04 20:26:57 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I'll confirm it with zmedico, but iirc the eclasses are now saved to vdb +2008 Dec 04 20:27:13 <cryos|work> I am just not certain we can do that, but I could be wrong. An eclass that used to work with a version of portage should at least work to uninstall said ebuild. +2008 Dec 04 20:27:14 <scarabeus> and no eapi1 package currently uses our eclass +2008 Dec 04 20:27:38 <cryos|work> If the policy has changed due to portage changes then fine, but last I checked it had not. +2008 Dec 04 20:27:47 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I'll be sure to check it +2008 Dec 04 20:27:50 <cryos|work> You could leave empty functions there, but they had to remain there. +2008 Dec 04 20:28:14 <cryos|work> So that it is possible to uninstall the cached ebuild that didn't cache its eclass. +2008 Dec 04 20:28:16 -*- jmbsvicetto mumbles - versioned eclasses +2008 Dec 04 20:28:29 -*- cryos|work thinks versioning should be used. +2008 Dec 04 20:28:29 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: understood +2008 Dec 04 20:28:37 <cryos|work> It would get rid of many of these concerns. +2008 Dec 04 20:29:00 <scarabeus> ok this could be handled later, jmbsvicetto can i wrote you as man taking care of eapi2only? +2008 Dec 04 20:29:03 <cryos|work> We have what we have and I didn't want changes to hose peoples systems. +2008 Dec 04 20:29:59 <-- kaffeedoktor (n=kaffeedo@rps3741.ovh.net) has quit (Remote closed the connection) +2008 Dec 04 20:30:24 --> kaffeedoktor (n=kaffeedo@rps3741.ovh.net) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:30:35 <scarabeus> ok for next issue i see is wrong SLOT for our kde4 packages in the tree +2008 Dec 04 20:30:41 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sure +2008 Dec 04 20:30:41 <scarabeus> how to deal that +2008 Dec 04 20:30:51 <scarabeus> i did something that should work for ktorrent +2008 Dec 04 20:30:59 <krytzz> hm ill have a look +2008 Dec 04 20:31:01 <scarabeus> but i hope there will be better solution for the others +2008 Dec 04 20:31:12 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: what "wrong" slot? +2008 Dec 04 20:31:16 <scarabeus> they use 4.1 +2008 Dec 04 20:31:21 -*- cryos|work is confused too. +2008 Dec 04 20:31:25 <scarabeus> what used to mark kde they work +2008 Dec 04 20:31:34 <scarabeus> but with new eclasses they should be marked as app version +2008 Dec 04 20:31:36 <scarabeus> not slot of kde +2008 Dec 04 20:31:53 <cryos|work> What app version? +2008 Dec 04 20:32:00 <scarabeus> for example +2008 Dec 04 20:32:04 <scarabeus> ktorrent has version 3 +2008 Dec 04 20:32:07 <scarabeus> and 2 +2008 Dec 04 20:32:10 <scarabeus> in the tree +2008 Dec 04 20:32:15 <scarabeus> so 2 is slot:0 +2008 Dec 04 20:32:19 <scarabeus> and 3 is slot:3 +2008 Dec 04 20:32:25 <scarabeus> but now it was slot:4.1 +2008 Dec 04 20:32:28 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I know what he means +2008 Dec 04 20:32:34 <reavertm> 2 is for kde3? +2008 Dec 04 20:32:39 <scarabeus> reavertm: yes +2008 Dec 04 20:32:43 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: The code used to apply only for packages in kde-base, that restriction was removed +2008 Dec 04 20:32:54 <cryos|work> Can the two actually be slotted? +2008 Dec 04 20:33:02 <jmbsvicetto> That is another issue +2008 Dec 04 20:33:05 <reavertm> isn't this an issue only for -kdeprefix? +2008 Dec 04 20:33:08 <cryos|work> Is it wise to remove the restriction? +2008 Dec 04 20:33:21 <cryos|work> Are they all going into kdeprefix now? +2008 Dec 04 20:33:22 <scarabeus> cryos|work: yes it is working as charm :] +2008 Dec 04 20:33:34 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: probably not, but it was done to enforce the use of prefix in kde-misc +2008 Dec 04 20:33:34 <scarabeus> cryos|work: yes all packages sets themself based on kdeprefix +2008 Dec 04 20:33:50 <reavertm> I mean, if kde3 apps are going to /usr/kde/3.5 soon, there should be no issue anymore +2008 Dec 04 20:34:20 <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: That means we'll get with the kde3 apps the same issue we currently have with kde4 apps - they stop working after you bump kde version +2008 Dec 04 20:34:23 <cryos|work> What about with -kdeprefix? They are still good I assume? +2008 Dec 04 20:34:40 <jmbsvicetto> The slot is changed, but the install location is still /usr +2008 Dec 04 20:35:01 <reavertm> well, kde3 will be no longer revbumped I'm afraid +2008 Dec 04 20:35:02 <cryos|work> So they do the funky blocker that allows simulataneous files that collide, +2008 Dec 04 20:35:15 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: yes - that needs to be fixed +2008 Dec 04 20:35:22 <krytzz> jmbsvicetto hm i thought every future version of ktorrent for example it stays in the 3 slot right? +2008 Dec 04 20:35:33 <scarabeus> cryos|work: i will give you my list of thoughts for kde3 +2008 Dec 04 20:35:38 <krytzz> and with the other extragear apps too +2008 Dec 04 20:35:57 <scarabeus> cryos|work: http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde3-misc_packages.txt +2008 Dec 04 20:36:06 <jmbsvicetto> with scarabeus update yes. It was going to be 4.X without it +2008 Dec 04 20:36:07 <scarabeus> krytzz: yep +2008 Dec 04 20:36:12 <cryos|work> If you are installing the app into the kdeprefix then it makes sense for it to share the slot of the prefix dir it goes into. +2008 Dec 04 20:36:28 <-- deathwing00 (n=deathwin@gentoo/developer/Deathwing00) has quit ("Leaving.") +2008 Dec 04 20:36:32 <scarabeus> cryos|work: well it can go to -kdeprefix too +2008 Dec 04 20:36:35 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: That was my thought, but now I have my doubts +2008 Dec 04 20:36:51 <scarabeus> and you cant make dynamic slot +2008 Dec 04 20:37:03 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: amarok stopped working here with 4.1.80 because it was installed with 4.1.3, even though I still have 4.1.3 around +2008 Dec 04 20:37:07 <scarabeus> sice ktorrent-3.1 now can go intoo 4.1 4.2 and live dirs +2008 Dec 04 20:37:20 <cryos|work> That is why I have always had my doubts about slotting apps not released with the main KDE modules, you have to make artificial bumps I guess to other packages? +2008 Dec 04 20:37:40 <cryos|work> How does ktorrent decide which prefix to install to? +2008 Dec 04 20:37:40 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: at this point I really don't know what to do +2008 Dec 04 20:38:05 <krytzz> :( +2008 Dec 04 20:38:07 <cryos|work> This scheme sounds really messy, but I haven't been using it and so don't know what to say. +2008 Dec 04 20:38:16 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: One idea that crossed my mind was to install these apps into /usr/kde/apps/${PN}/${PV} +2008 Dec 04 20:38:24 <reavertm> the easiest would be to allow only one KDE4 installed... +2008 Dec 04 20:38:41 -*- cryos|work kinda suggested that... +2008 Dec 04 20:38:48 <jmbsvicetto> but scarabeus tried doing that and couldn't get it working with symlinks +2008 Dec 04 20:38:58 <scarabeus> yeah i failed there too much +2008 Dec 04 20:39:03 <scarabeus> it was not working for me +2008 Dec 04 20:39:10 <cryos|work> Having so many options can be extremely tough to support. +2008 Dec 04 20:39:13 <scarabeus> feel free to do it again for yourself +2008 Dec 04 20:39:21 <scarabeus> cryos|work: i know :( +2008 Dec 04 20:40:06 <cryos|work> That is why many distros choose not to do this, and it has bitten us many times in the past. 3.5 is simpler now due to no more bumps. +2008 Dec 04 20:40:11 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: This is another case were the real solution would be for upstream to think about this and provide a solution for having multiple versions in the same prefix +2008 Dec 04 20:40:36 <scarabeus> we should try to push versioning on upstream +2008 Dec 04 20:40:40 <scarabeus> that is not bad idea +2008 Dec 04 20:40:41 <cryos|work> I agree with you entirely +2008 Dec 04 20:40:55 <krytzz> has anyone asked for this already? +2008 Dec 04 20:41:07 <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: You've talked before with upstream about this, haven't you? +2008 Dec 04 20:41:12 <cryos|work> I do think having multiple minor versions available to people who do not really know what they are doing is possibly a recipe for failure... +2008 Dec 04 20:41:28 <cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: Yes, and I will probably talk about it again at Camp KDE in January. +2008 Dec 04 20:41:48 <cryos|work> Many other distro developers also very much wanted this, and to a degree it works. +2008 Dec 04 20:41:56 <jmbsvicetto> Didn't you have a presentation you did about this issue? +2008 Dec 04 20:41:57 <cryos|work> Not to the degree Gentoo would like though. +2008 Dec 04 20:42:08 <cryos|work> Yes - it is on my blog somewhere. +2008 Dec 04 20:42:22 <jmbsvicetto> That should be an interesting reading for people in the team +2008 Dec 04 20:42:49 <-- MartyMcFly (n=martin@dslb-088-064-190-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) has quit (Remote closed the connection) +2008 Dec 04 20:43:03 <scarabeus> yeah i would like to see it :] +2008 Dec 04 20:43:23 <krytzz> hm but with -kdeprefix there is no problem then... if the ABI is stable +2008 Dec 04 20:43:38 <cryos|work> http://blog.cryos.net/archives/146-Gentoo-KDE-Talk-at-aKademy.html +2008 Dec 04 20:44:58 <scarabeus> ok next point is more nice and all developers are needed: we need some lead, so people can oficialy find one, /me is proposing jmbsvicetto O:P (meantime looking on presentation on second monitor) +2008 Dec 04 20:45:00 <cryos|work> I will be preparing half of the talk for the KDE and distros talk in January - so let me know if there are things you would like to be raised. +2008 Dec 04 20:45:46 -*- cryos|work never really saw the need for the hierarchy in small herds, but whatever makes you happy. +2008 Dec 04 20:46:23 --> Scorcere1 (n=Scorek@77-87-120-128.rev.masterkom.pl) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:46:28 <cryos|work> The KDE herd didn't have a lead for years and flourished, then dwindled... It is all about building a friendly community (lead or no). +2008 Dec 04 20:46:58 <jmbsvicetto> I agree with cryos|work about having a friendly community +2008 Dec 04 20:47:00 <krytzz> i have nothing against it :p +2008 Dec 04 20:47:05 <scarabeus> :D +2008 Dec 04 20:47:31 <jmbsvicetto> Oh and I'm not that eager to get the "lead" hat :P +2008 Dec 04 20:47:32 <scarabeus> i dont mind how this will evolve so i leave this one definetly up to all +2008 Dec 04 20:47:44 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yeah i am pretty sure of this :D +2008 Dec 04 20:47:54 <scarabeus> noone wants to be lead i would say +2008 Dec 04 20:47:56 <tampakrap> i think we should have a leader just as the other herds do +2008 Dec 04 20:48:05 <tampakrap> not because we need someone to decide +2008 Dec 04 20:48:16 <jmbsvicetto> A quick note - team and not herd :P +2008 Dec 04 20:48:27 <jmbsvicetto> We're talking about the people and not about the packages ;) +2008 Dec 04 20:48:41 <tilya> i will be the queen ;) +2008 Dec 04 20:48:41 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: herd is missused for this for so long... +2008 Dec 04 20:48:44 --> dagger (n=dagger@piasek.co.uk) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:49:06 <scarabeus> i think word herd needs redefinition but it is not on todays topic +2008 Dec 04 20:49:12 -*- cryos|work never got why people were so picky about the words used, is it really a herd of packages? :D +2008 Dec 04 20:49:34 <krytzz> a bunch of packages +2008 Dec 04 20:49:35 <scarabeus> ok so no lead for now, when times change jmbsvicetto is first on the row :P +2008 Dec 04 20:49:41 <krytzz> gentoo kde-bunch-of-people +2008 Dec 04 20:49:56 <cryos|work> It is work time for me over here, I could do with getting stuff done soon. So I may leave in 5-10 mins. +2008 Dec 04 20:49:59 <jmbsvicetto> moving on to other not so pleasant topic, I think we need to look at the team members again - afaik, we have people listed in the kde page that haven't done anything kde related for many, many months +2008 Dec 04 20:50:06 <-- comawhite (n=comawhit@unaffiliated/comawhite) has quit ("Leaving") +2008 Dec 04 20:50:26 --> tgurr (n=tgurr@gentoo/developer/tgurr) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 20:50:26 -=- Mode #gentoo-kde [+o tgurr] by ChanServ +2008 Dec 04 20:50:36 <jmbsvicetto> Hi tgurr +2008 Dec 04 20:50:40 <scarabeus> agreed, we should clean it up, ask everyone if they are willing to do something and so on (does not count for people that are mentioned away) +2008 Dec 04 20:50:46 <tgurr> jmbsvicetto: hi +2008 Dec 04 20:50:58 <-- erulabs (n=seandon@net-cf9a4013.noc.impulse.net) has quit ("Leaving.") +2008 Dec 04 20:51:05 <-- JaMa (n=JaMa@chaos.mk.cvut.cz) has quit (Remote closed the connection) +2008 Dec 04 20:51:32 <jmbsvicetto> Getting to the same old same, it would help if all the members would be willing to join irc, but I don't have any illusions about getting some people in here +2008 Dec 04 20:51:50 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: are you willing to mail them +2008 Dec 04 20:52:06 <jmbsvicetto> About being team members, sure? +2008 Dec 04 20:52:11 <scarabeus> ok +2008 Dec 04 20:52:16 <scarabeus> i am writing up notes +2008 Dec 04 20:52:20 <scarabeus> so we have them after end +2008 Dec 04 20:52:21 <scarabeus> :] +2008 Dec 04 20:52:38 <scarabeus> about members +2008 Dec 04 20:52:42 <scarabeus> we have problem in qt herd +2008 Dec 04 20:52:46 <scarabeus> it is just yngwin +2008 Dec 04 20:53:00 <scarabeus> how to get some qt devepoer :] +2008 Dec 04 20:53:05 <jmbsvicetto> I can even do something better, send a mail to the kde alias and ask everyone for a little introspection and to let us know if they're still part of the team and or want to be part of the team ;) +2008 Dec 04 20:53:20 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: that i leave up to you :] +2008 Dec 04 20:53:22 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I thought carlo and caleb where still in the team +2008 Dec 04 20:53:39 <yngwin> they are but they are inactive and non-responsive +2008 Dec 04 20:53:40 <scarabeus> did you hear/see some commits from them in last month/2 +2008 Dec 04 20:53:41 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: with the obvious reservations about the above point +2008 Dec 04 20:53:56 <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: ok, just wanted to confirm +2008 Dec 04 20:54:04 <scarabeus> reavertm: maybe you might be interested +2008 Dec 04 20:54:11 <reavertm> well, no major qt release recently so they may just wait for 4.5 +2008 Dec 04 20:54:21 <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I'll talk to you about qt +2008 Dec 04 20:54:22 <reavertm> in qt maintenance a bit? +2008 Dec 04 20:54:28 <scarabeus> and that reminds me, yngwin should get commit acces to kde-crazy +2008 Dec 04 20:54:32 <scarabeus> reavertm: yes +2008 Dec 04 20:54:57 <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: do you have access to kde-testing? If not, you should also have it +2008 Dec 04 20:54:58 <krytzz> does bonsaikitten have access? :p +2008 Dec 04 20:55:11 <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: i dont +2008 Dec 04 20:55:16 <scarabeus> krytzz: silence there! ;D +2008 Dec 04 20:55:21 <yngwin> unless i do but dont know it +2008 Dec 04 20:55:33 <reavertm> hmm, well I can try by forget about Qt from Trolltech svn fro bow - they shit svn only as daily snapshots via rsync +2008 Dec 04 20:55:37 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: I forgot to tell you, but robbat2 replied to me earlier saying you should have access now +2008 Dec 04 20:55:46 <bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: ok, let me try :) +2008 Dec 04 20:55:57 <reavertm> for now^^ +2008 Dec 04 20:55:58 <bonsaikitten> also, phonecall, I kinda missed the last half hour or so +2008 Dec 04 20:56:01 <jmbsvicetto> ok, my purpose with the kde-* overlays was for everyone on the team to have access to them +2008 Dec 04 20:56:10 <scarabeus> yeah agreed +2008 Dec 04 20:56:36 <jmbsvicetto> I initially asked jokey to grant access to everyone at the time in the team. I haven't followed it through, so I'll talk to robbat2 again asking for an update about the current status +2008 Dec 04 20:56:52 <scarabeus> and i took the liberty and added yngwin to team list on kde page, since it is project page for qt and kde, not only kde, i think i forget to mention that before for that i am ashamed +2008 Dec 04 20:57:05 <yngwin> ok tnx +2008 Dec 04 20:57:18 <yngwin> maybe i should get op status here then as well +2008 Dec 04 20:57:18 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Yes, you're right +2008 Dec 04 20:57:22 <jmbsvicetto> sure +2008 Dec 04 20:57:30 <jmbsvicetto> keytoaster: I think it has to be you doing it +2008 Dec 04 20:57:45 <jmbsvicetto> keytoaster: iirc, we transfered +F to you +2008 Dec 04 20:58:57 <bonsaikitten> oooh. can has access :D +2008 Dec 04 20:59:01 <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: seems I was able to grant it to you +2008 Dec 04 20:59:06 <bonsaikitten> DrEeevil: you fail. +2008 Dec 04 20:59:08 <-- NSaibot (n=quassel@i3ED6C704.versanet.de) has quit (Remote closed the connection) +2008 Dec 04 20:59:12 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: :) +2008 Dec 04 20:59:32 <scarabeus> ok one more infra thing +2008 Dec 04 20:59:36 -=- Mode #gentoo-kde [+o yngwin] by jmbsvicetto +2008 Dec 04 20:59:44 <scarabeus> tampakrap would need normal mentor if he wants to became full dev +2008 Dec 04 20:59:51 <scarabeus> i am willing to help him with the quiz +2008 Dec 04 20:59:57 <scarabeus> but someone must oversee +2008 Dec 04 20:59:59 <scarabeus> who can do that +2008 Dec 04 21:00:11 <bonsaikitten> I'm too young for that I think +2008 Dec 04 21:00:14 <scarabeus> end-quiz we are speaking about +2008 Dec 04 21:00:15 <jmbsvicetto> I'm also willing to help, but I still don't have the 6 months, so I can't mentor +2008 Dec 04 21:00:16 --> genady12 (n=genady12@87.69.85.204) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 21:00:17 <tampakrap> first of all is everyone ok with that? +2008 Dec 04 21:00:19 <bonsaikitten> my quantum status is confusing +2008 Dec 04 21:00:31 -*- bonsaikitten is 2 years on, 2 years off ... +2008 Dec 04 21:00:42 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: You're *chaotic* ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:00:44 <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: ;] you are cheating :D +2008 Dec 04 21:00:47 <krytzz> i am +2008 Dec 04 21:00:55 <bonsaikitten> so is that 2 years or 2 months now? :) +2008 Dec 04 21:00:57 --> oc2k1 (n=oc2k1@p5B104618.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 21:01:16 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: we need to ask Betelgeuse +2008 Dec 04 21:01:22 <bonsaikitten> :) +2008 Dec 04 21:01:39 <bonsaikitten> I think it is better if I stay out of it for a while +2008 Dec 04 21:01:39 <krytzz> perhaps jokey could do it? +2008 Dec 04 21:01:54 <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: jokey is away +2008 Dec 04 21:01:56 <yngwin> i thought jokey was caught up in real life +2008 Dec 04 21:01:57 <scarabeus> jokay is away +2008 Dec 04 21:02:01 <krytzz> ok +2008 Dec 04 21:02:06 <scarabeus> yngwin: you cant do it? +2008 Dec 04 21:02:19 <yngwin> i can +2008 Dec 04 21:02:29 <yngwin> although i dont feel guru enough +2008 Dec 04 21:02:53 <scarabeus> :] +2008 Dec 04 21:03:07 <bonsaikitten> yngwin: you are guru enough! +2008 Dec 04 21:03:14 <scarabeus> dont worry, from mine humble PoV you are guru enought +2008 Dec 04 21:03:16 <yngwin> well, if you say so :) +2008 Dec 04 21:03:27 <jmbsvicetto> :) +2008 Dec 04 21:03:36 <tampakrap> thanks :) +2008 Dec 04 21:03:52 <yngwin> is there a bug for tampakrap's recruitment? +2008 Dec 04 21:04:01 <tampakrap> no +2008 Dec 04 21:04:02 <keytoaster> keytoaster: yes you did +2008 Dec 04 21:04:06 <keytoaster> err +2008 Dec 04 21:04:08 <-- Scorcerer (n=Scorek@77-87-120-128.rev.masterkom.pl) has quit (Connection timed out) +2008 Dec 04 21:04:08 -=- Scorcere1 is now known as Scorcerer +2008 Dec 04 21:04:08 <keytoaster> jmbsvicetto: yes you did +2008 Dec 04 21:04:21 <scarabeus> yngwin: nope i can create one, i made him HT yesterday +2008 Dec 04 21:04:27 <yngwin> okay +2008 Dec 04 21:04:42 <jmbsvicetto> I let it pass, but since scarabeus mentioned the project page, we both applied some changes to the page to integrate KDE4 as a regular release and to update the status of the overlays +2008 Dec 04 21:04:58 <jmbsvicetto> Don't know if everyone has checked it and whether there's any objection to it +2008 Dec 04 21:05:03 <yngwin> scarabeus: then i'll second on that, and then we can see what betelgeuse says +2008 Dec 04 21:05:09 <-- scratch[x] (n=scratch@83.239.148.148) has quit (No route to host) +2008 Dec 04 21:05:14 <yngwin> tampakrap: kaloriziko ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:05:23 <tampakrap> wtf? +2008 Dec 04 21:05:25 <scarabeus> we can do this stuff after meeting, great :] +2008 Dec 04 21:05:43 <scarabeus> ok last two things per my list +2008 Dec 04 21:05:46 <scarabeus> first is kde4.2 +2008 Dec 04 21:05:50 <scarabeus> so what shape is it in +2008 Dec 04 21:05:56 <scarabeus> it is just statusreport for it +2008 Dec 04 21:06:00 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Good and BAD!!! +2008 Dec 04 21:06:01 <scarabeus> so speak up kde-crazy people +2008 Dec 04 21:06:04 <bonsaikitten> I'll take care of them snapshots +2008 Dec 04 21:06:09 <reavertm> well, it works :) +2008 Dec 04 21:06:15 <tampakrap> i'll also give priority to snapshots +2008 Dec 04 21:06:21 <krytzz> plasma crashes often :p +2008 Dec 04 21:06:22 <yngwin> kde 4.2? its crap. it friggin' needs mysql +2008 Dec 04 21:06:28 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: my keyboard layout is still messed up - but nepomuk and plasma have a better look ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:06:36 <bonsaikitten> it works quite well for me +2008 Dec 04 21:06:41 <krytzz> also for me nepomuk is strange +2008 Dec 04 21:06:46 <bonsaikitten> had a few compile failures, but nothing unexpected +2008 Dec 04 21:06:54 <reavertm> I guess trunk is way better than snapshots, but... regressions are quite often recently +2008 Dec 04 21:07:01 <krytzz> but rest is ok +2008 Dec 04 21:07:02 <reavertm> ebuild-wise - it's pretty mature +2008 Dec 04 21:07:14 <jmbsvicetto> One important point about snapshots, they can't rely on live packages +2008 Dec 04 21:07:24 <bonsaikitten> live is in a very good shape, snapshots have been a bit neglected +2008 Dec 04 21:07:25 <reavertm> but upstream will mess with buildsystem for sure +2008 Dec 04 21:07:31 -*- bonsaikitten is just digesting them +2008 Dec 04 21:07:35 <jmbsvicetto> So we need to bug other teams or add new versions/snapshots if required to the overlay/tree +2008 Dec 04 21:07:50 <krytzz> especially opensync :p +2008 Dec 04 21:07:55 <scarabeus> opensync is problem +2008 Dec 04 21:07:57 <scarabeus> currently +2008 Dec 04 21:08:20 <scarabeus> and also networkmanager, i took liberty of speaking up with rbu on our behalf +2008 Dec 04 21:08:31 <reavertm> opensync and it;s plugins were problematic with kde3 already +2008 Dec 04 21:08:34 <scarabeus> and today/tomorow nm-0.7 hit the tree +2008 Dec 04 21:08:38 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: one solution is to try to add an update to kde-crazy overlay until it gets in the tree +2008 Dec 04 21:08:52 <krytzz> ah nice +2008 Dec 04 21:08:55 <reavertm> kitchensync is just lame kde3 port +2008 Dec 04 21:08:59 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: rbu has shown interest in getting nm working +2008 Dec 04 21:09:03 <scarabeus> yes +2008 Dec 04 21:09:08 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: he might need some help with it, though +2008 Dec 04 21:09:09 <scarabeus> he already made it work +2008 Dec 04 21:09:17 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well i will ask +2008 Dec 04 21:09:48 <jmbsvicetto> The GNOME team was also interested in getting 0.7 in the tree, iirc +2008 Dec 04 21:10:19 <reavertm> yeah, everyone is crazy about those networkmanager desktop applets... +2008 Dec 04 21:10:42 <bonsaikitten> can we prevent such cross-repo dependencies in the future? +2008 Dec 04 21:10:54 <jmbsvicetto> I would just love to get some applet that does the eap stuff for me ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:11:05 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: what deps? +2008 Dec 04 21:11:08 <scarabeus> there will be rule for next time all must be on portage/overlay +2008 Dec 04 21:11:14 <bonsaikitten> like nm +2008 Dec 04 21:11:23 <reavertm> like kde4 requiring nm from rbu overlay +2008 Dec 04 21:11:24 <bonsaikitten> we should have a copy in our repo if that happens +2008 Dec 04 21:11:31 <jmbsvicetto> yeah, agreed +2008 Dec 04 21:11:36 <krytzz> hm but this sucks somehow +2008 Dec 04 21:11:44 <krytzz> if you have both overlays you have the ebuild 2 times +2008 Dec 04 21:11:50 <jmbsvicetto> at least until we can get Zac to support repo deps ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:11:50 <krytzz> and you dont know if the 2 differ or something +2008 Dec 04 21:12:05 <scarabeus> repodeps ;] +2008 Dec 04 21:12:10 <scarabeus> it sounds llike sam rep band +2008 Dec 04 21:12:11 <krytzz> also its additional maintenance work +2008 Dec 04 21:12:25 <tampakrap> talking about overlays i'd like to remind everyone that versioned misc packages go to kde-testing :) +2008 Dec 04 21:12:35 <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: yes, we should only have them until it gets pushed into the tree +2008 Dec 04 21:12:36 <reavertm> yeah, i just see GLEP for it being discussed, then presented, then rejected or suspended :P +2008 Dec 04 21:12:39 <krytzz> ok tampakrap :p +2008 Dec 04 21:13:02 <scarabeus> ok so what with opensync +2008 Dec 04 21:13:06 <scarabeus> it is BbD +2008 Dec 04 21:13:08 <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: versioned "not known to be broken" misc packages ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:13:13 <scarabeus> broken by design +2008 Dec 04 21:13:13 <krytzz> i wouldnt mind with a central gentoo-deps overlay :p +2008 Dec 04 21:13:30 <bonsaikitten> we call that "the main tree" +2008 Dec 04 21:13:38 <reavertm> scarabeus you mean opensync akonadi plugin or kitchensync? +2008 Dec 04 21:13:44 <bonsaikitten> so, how fast are we going to get 4.2 there as ~arch? +2008 Dec 04 21:13:51 <krytzz> bonsaikitten then stab people to get things faster in there then :p +2008 Dec 04 21:13:54 <bonsaikitten> and is kde 4.2 a stable candidate? +2008 Dec 04 21:14:06 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: I don't think we should get 4.2 in the tree until RC +2008 Dec 04 21:14:09 <scarabeus> yeah crappy opensync +2008 Dec 04 21:14:16 <bonsaikitten> krytzz: I'm just cleaning up. If that's not enough go screw yourself counterclockwise ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:14:24 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: I would also hard mask the RCs and lift the mask with 4.2 +2008 Dec 04 21:14:25 <tampakrap> i think it is time to have a stable kde4 version +2008 Dec 04 21:14:31 <bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: acceptable +2008 Dec 04 21:14:48 <reavertm> scarabeus yes, but be more specific, opensync from portage is crappy or kde opensync support? +2008 Dec 04 21:14:49 <krytzz> i think if the 4.2 progress continues like know it should be great by 4.2.1 +2008 Dec 04 21:14:58 <scarabeus> opensync from portage +2008 Dec 04 21:14:59 <krytzz> now +2008 Dec 04 21:14:59 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: we might however start thinking on moving 4.2 into kde-testing +2008 Dec 04 21:15:02 <scarabeus> opensync itself +2008 Dec 04 21:15:09 <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: at least as soon as we take care of the eclasses +2008 Dec 04 21:15:17 <scarabeus> eclasses first! :D +2008 Dec 04 21:15:17 <tampakrap> jmbsvicetto: +1 +2008 Dec 04 21:15:34 <jmbsvicetto> and I do think 4.2 should be a stable candidate - let's just see how it works +2008 Dec 04 21:15:47 <jmbsvicetto> one thing we need to solve quickly is getting 3.5.10 marked stable +2008 Dec 04 21:16:05 <scarabeus> that is already stated in the summary paper :] +2008 Dec 04 21:16:08 <reavertm> jmbsvicetto which 4.2? you mean snapshots and revbump as 4.2 and keep them updated along with snaphots from kde-crazy? +2008 Dec 04 21:16:10 <tampakrap> jmbsvicetto: i'll start working on kde3 right after this meeting +2008 Dec 04 21:16:18 <reavertm> if yes, then you are crazy ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:16:33 <tampakrap> why? +2008 Dec 04 21:16:35 <scarabeus> nope to testing should go only snapshots marked as betaX +2008 Dec 04 21:16:36 <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I mean that I think 4.2 snapshots should be moved to testing +2008 Dec 04 21:16:45 <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: after the eclasses are merged back again +2008 Dec 04 21:16:49 <scarabeus> snapshot itself i disagree +2008 Dec 04 21:16:57 <scarabeus> but snapshots for beta1 beta2 rcX +2008 Dec 04 21:16:58 <scarabeus> yes +2008 Dec 04 21:17:04 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: yes, that's what I mean +2008 Dec 04 21:17:10 <jmbsvicetto> should have been clearer +2008 Dec 04 21:17:16 <reavertm> I wouldn't advise that atm - there may be many changes and syncing them between kde-crazy <-> kde-testing ... +2008 Dec 04 21:17:17 <scarabeus> great then we agree :] +2008 Dec 04 21:17:34 <scarabeus> reavertm: just delete it and copy from point A to point B +2008 Dec 04 21:17:39 <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: git cherry-pick ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:17:41 <scarabeus> it wont harm kittens TM +2008 Dec 04 21:17:52 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: cherry-pick cross repos? +2008 Dec 04 21:17:56 <jmbsvicetto> yes +2008 Dec 04 21:17:58 <scarabeus> wow +2008 Dec 04 21:18:00 <scarabeus> that i didnt know +2008 Dec 04 21:18:05 <scarabeus> that is even more cooler +2008 Dec 04 21:18:11 <reavertm> scnaphots are keep sync from live now - and I would just wait until some rc is released, and patched in kde-crazy and then quick revbup and move -> testing +2008 Dec 04 21:18:28 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: hmm, now you're going to force me to test it to be sure I didn't came up with that +2008 Dec 04 21:18:36 <reavertm> well, if you volunteer to do it :) +2008 Dec 04 21:19:14 <-- genady12 (n=genady12@87.69.85.204) has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) +2008 Dec 04 21:19:15 <scarabeus> ok this can be suspended and handled later +2008 Dec 04 21:19:20 <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The idea was to try to have RCs in the tree, so we should try to get something in testing before that +2008 Dec 04 21:19:21 <scarabeus> now more pain in the ass TM issue +2008 Dec 04 21:19:25 <scarabeus> mysql +2008 Dec 04 21:19:28 <scarabeus> whole kde needs it +2008 Dec 04 21:19:33 <bonsaikitten> aarghl! :) +2008 Dec 04 21:19:33 <scarabeus> and amarok is chapter itself +2008 Dec 04 21:19:42 <scarabeus> what to do with it +2008 Dec 04 21:19:43 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There's only one option here: work with robbat2 +2008 Dec 04 21:19:50 <krytzz> yes... we cant do anything about that :( +2008 Dec 04 21:19:58 <scarabeus> did you see the eclass +2008 Dec 04 21:19:58 <reavertm> yes, I agres 4.2 should be in tree asap but moving it to testing only for the sake of having it in kde-testing is bad idea imho +2008 Dec 04 21:20:01 <krytzz> does he maintain mysql? +2008 Dec 04 21:20:04 <scarabeus> did? did? i dont like it +2008 Dec 04 21:20:09 <scarabeus> krytzz: yes he does +2008 Dec 04 21:20:09 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I've asked him yesterday and he's still waiting for mysql upstream to reply to his request for a dynamic lib for mysql/e +2008 Dec 04 21:20:17 <reavertm> I've already put my mysql rant in gentoo-dev :P +2008 Dec 04 21:20:17 <krytzz> ah ok +2008 Dec 04 21:20:31 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: what do you mean? +2008 Dec 04 21:21:03 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: too chaotical too much patches too much crazy +2008 Dec 04 21:21:11 <scarabeus> but i dunno how is upstream cooperating +2008 Dec 04 21:21:19 <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The point of kde-testing is to be the bridge to the tree +2008 Dec 04 21:21:28 <scarabeus> ok on other hand who is willing to cooperate with robbat2 on that? +2008 Dec 04 21:21:32 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: you mean mysql eclass? +2008 Dec 04 21:21:37 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ay sir +2008 Dec 04 21:21:46 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: mysql isn't that "simple" +2008 Dec 04 21:22:05 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: And robbat2 if surely one if not the "one" gentoo mysql yoda +2008 Dec 04 21:22:09 <jmbsvicetto> s/if/is/ +2008 Dec 04 21:22:12 <reavertm> I've seen this eclass and it's.. well.. a bit complex as eclass for one package +2008 Dec 04 21:22:34 <bonsaikitten> reavertm: it adds a build system to a braindead package ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:22:39 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'm willing to work with robbat2 about mysql +2008 Dec 04 21:22:58 <reavertm> yeah, I heard.... +2008 Dec 04 21:23:09 --> genady12 (n=genady12@87.69.85.204) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 21:23:12 <scarabeus> great puting you to the txt :] +2008 Dec 04 21:23:27 <scarabeus> ok issues from my side mentioned +2008 Dec 04 21:23:32 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll have to check that text - it feels like I'm being "canned" ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:23:36 <scarabeus> someone else has something that needs to be handled +2008 Dec 04 21:23:49 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: dont worry i try to make it to be factical +2008 Dec 04 21:23:58 <tampakrap> is there an open bug for 3.5.10 stabilization? +2008 Dec 04 21:24:01 <jmbsvicetto> yes +2008 Dec 04 21:24:08 <tampakrap> if not let's create one to sum up the issues +2008 Dec 04 21:24:12 <tampakrap> ok then +2008 Dec 04 21:24:15 <krytzz> yeah, about the kde-plasma category: could we do it? +2008 Dec 04 21:24:15 <jmbsvicetto> If ctrl+f3 worked here, I could get you the number quicker ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:24:17 <tampakrap> i'll search +2008 Dec 04 21:24:24 <jmbsvicetto> bug kde-3.5.10 +2008 Dec 04 21:24:27 <krytzz> do you like it? +2008 Dec 04 21:24:44 <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: I don't think we should go down that route +2008 Dec 04 21:25:13 <scarabeus> ok what are the alternatives +2008 Dec 04 21:25:14 <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: If we try to get kde-plasma, kde-plasmoids, ..., we're going to create resistance +2008 Dec 04 21:25:28 <krytzz> no, only kde-plasma jmbsvicetto for everything plasma-related +2008 Dec 04 21:25:31 <scarabeus> kde-plasma only it is going to be +2008 Dec 04 21:25:32 <jmbsvicetto> we've lived with kde-base and kde-misc for a long, long time +2008 Dec 04 21:25:34 <tampakrap> could we have plasmoids for more than one version? and in case of slotted kde's, could we install a plasmoid for every session? +2008 Dec 04 21:25:59 <jmbsvicetto> how many packages are we talking and what type of packages +2008 Dec 04 21:25:59 <scarabeus> tampakrap: nope it is same as misc packages for more kde installs +2008 Dec 04 21:26:09 <reavertm> tampakrap they won't build that easy +2008 Dec 04 21:26:11 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: plasma aplets and enginges +2008 Dec 04 21:26:15 <krytzz> hm ok thats just personal preference how filled the categories are, but i prefer fewer packages per category +2008 Dec 04 21:26:28 <scarabeus> currently about 150 on kde-apps/look +2008 Dec 04 21:26:39 <scarabeus> and we can bundle them all in the end +2008 Dec 04 21:26:54 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: if we're talking about kde-look, perhaps we're going down the wrong path +2008 Dec 04 21:26:58 <reavertm> categories are bad btw, some tag clouds should be introduced one day... +2008 Dec 04 21:27:10 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'm thinking if we couldn't try to do something similar to what the perl team did with cpan +2008 Dec 04 21:27:15 --> Eythan (n=Eythan@AMontpellier-152-1-30-159.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 21:27:16 <krytzz> reavertm one day... yes :p +2008 Dec 04 21:27:22 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: what they did +2008 Dec 04 21:27:40 <scarabeus> some perl magic i guess ;] +2008 Dec 04 21:27:45 <jmbsvicetto> yup ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:28:09 --> fedux (n=fedux@190.55.126.139) has joined #gentoo-kde +2008 Dec 04 21:28:11 <jmbsvicetto> app-portage/g-cpan g-cpan: generate and install CPAN modules using portage +2008 Dec 04 21:28:19 <krytzz> hm +2008 Dec 04 21:28:58 <krytzz> i assume this is like ruby gems? +2008 Dec 04 21:28:59 <reavertm> so dedicated tool only for some plasmoids? +2008 Dec 04 21:29:24 <reavertm> not worth it imho +2008 Dec 04 21:29:31 <jmbsvicetto> I haven't looked at their implementation, but if I'm not mistaken, they've created a tool to help install packages in cpan. So instead of having one ebuild for every kde-look package, we could try to have some tool that helps install packages from kde-look +2008 Dec 04 21:29:38 <tampakrap> i thought that upstream was going to apply a tool for downloading and easy installing plasmoids +2008 Dec 04 21:29:53 <krytzz> yeah kde-look, but plasmoids still have to be compiled +2008 Dec 04 21:30:04 <krytzz> cpan stuff not +2008 Dec 04 21:30:07 <reavertm> and have various dependencies +2008 Dec 04 21:30:31 <jmbsvicetto> No way to get them working without ebuilds? +2008 Dec 04 21:30:34 <krytzz> tampakrap hm but only for script plasmoids? +2008 Dec 04 21:30:34 <tampakrap> and apply to different kde versions +2008 Dec 04 21:30:44 <tampakrap> i'm not sure +2008 Dec 04 21:30:48 <reavertm> well, actually I was thinking about some ebuild generator with automatic depencency discovering (originally for plasmoids from playground) +2008 Dec 04 21:31:11 <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: not bad idea +2008 Dec 04 21:31:13 <jmbsvicetto> I think we need to think more about this +2008 Dec 04 21:31:17 <scarabeus> writing it down as long-term goal +2008 Dec 04 21:31:18 <reavertm> while ebuild generator (without deps) I got done already, eclass is not yet ready for fetch/unpack from playground +2008 Dec 04 21:31:56 <jmbsvicetto> Are plasmoids "heavy"? +2008 Dec 04 21:32:09 <tampakrap> some of them +2008 Dec 04 21:32:12 <tampakrap> very few +2008 Dec 04 21:32:13 <krytzz> some are pretty normal c++ apps, so i would say yes +2008 Dec 04 21:32:33 <krytzz> the script ones can be installed by plasma, we dont have to care about these +2008 Dec 04 21:33:38 <jmbsvicetto> Anything else? +2008 Dec 04 21:33:45 <reavertm> well, we could do as well some knewstuff2 interface for kde4 for plasmoids but we're not kde devs.. +2008 Dec 04 21:34:10 <reavertm> (it could reduce problem of plasmoids to installing them as icon themes) +2008 Dec 04 21:34:26 <krytzz> yeah debug useflag in eclass +2008 Dec 04 21:34:33 <krytzz> but ok this was already discussed +2008 Dec 04 21:34:41 <scarabeus> it is on dev already +2008 Dec 04 21:34:45 <reavertm> was it? +2008 Dec 04 21:34:45 <krytzz> ah ok +2008 Dec 04 21:34:46 <scarabeus> so lets see how that evolve +2008 Dec 04 21:34:53 <reavertm> aa, my proposition? +2008 Dec 04 21:34:59 <scarabeus> reavertm: we might have to write it as glep +2008 Dec 04 21:35:00 <reavertm> it won't evolve... +2008 Dec 04 21:35:03 <scarabeus> and push it trhought +2008 Dec 04 21:35:38 <reavertm> no way, just pass - it's against "ultimate freedom" and to package manager specific +2008 Dec 04 21:35:45 <scarabeus> i dont care they are picky about it, i think they would not agree with anything that does not worship their ethernal glory (dont cite me that is just brief overview of those flames) +2008 Dec 04 21:35:46 <reavertm> as it uses FEATURES +2008 Dec 04 21:36:43 <reavertm> anyway, "our own" debug suport you mean? +2008 Dec 04 21:37:03 <reavertm> well, "additiomnal debug codepaths" are supported already +2008 Dec 04 21:38:01 <krytzz> hm so scarabeus whats the role model for kde-misc ebuilds now? +2008 Dec 04 21:38:22 <scarabeus> krytzz: have no idea +2008 Dec 04 21:38:29 <scarabeus> everything what is not in kde-base +2008 Dec 04 21:38:32 <reavertm> actually I see no role for kde-misc really - never seen +2008 Dec 04 21:38:32 <scarabeus> from what i can see +2008 Dec 04 21:38:44 <reavertm> ok, kdevelop, kdesvn then? +2008 Dec 04 21:39:03 <krytzz> hm +2008 Dec 04 21:39:09 <scarabeus> oh it is mess like hell +2008 Dec 04 21:39:14 <reavertm> kdevelop is in KDE even and it will be in kde-base soon I guess (released as part of KDE) +2008 Dec 04 21:39:21 <reavertm> it is messy a bit +2008 Dec 04 21:40:00 <scarabeus> ok is this still part of meeting chat or we can dismisso ourselfs? +2008 Dec 04 21:40:11 <krytzz> i have nothing further +2008 Dec 04 21:40:12 <scarabeus> oh typos it is going to kill me one day +2008 Dec 04 21:40:39 <reavertm> scarabeus bug wranglers - needed or not? +2008 Dec 04 21:40:47 <scarabeus> not now, we have pretty big list +2008 Dec 04 21:40:59 <scarabeus> i will write it onto longterm with you as person interested +2008 Dec 04 21:40:59 <scarabeus> ok +2008 Dec 04 21:41:01 <scarabeus> ? +2008 Dec 04 21:41:37 <jmbsvicetto> I think you're looking at it from the wrong pov - bug-wranglers +2008 Dec 04 21:41:40 <reavertm> well, I'm not going to push if it's seen not necessary +2008 Dec 04 21:42:13 <yngwin> ok, i'm putting in a staffing-needs/recruitment request for developers and/or herd testers for qt herd +2008 Dec 04 21:42:16 <reavertm> I would like to model it a bit like KDE team, at least have more of them than 1 +2008 Dec 04 21:42:25 <jmbsvicetto> We don't need bug wranglers to look at new bugs and check if they're kde bugs. We need people that work through kde bugs and help get them resolved - by providing patches, by doing tests, by interacting with users. +2008 Dec 04 21:42:31 <krytzz> ok when the eclasses are merged every kde-testing ebuild should have the KDE_MINIMUM thing scarabeus? +2008 Dec 04 21:42:42 <scarabeus> nope +2008 Dec 04 21:42:56 <scarabeus> krytzz: kde_minimal is only override variable +2008 Dec 04 21:43:00 <scarabeus> it should work as they are now +2008 Dec 04 21:43:10 <scarabeus> read up description in eclass +2008 Dec 04 21:43:13 <krytzz> ok +2008 Dec 04 21:43:14 <krytzz> ill do +2008 Dec 04 21:43:45 <jmbsvicetto> ok, one last request from me - if you work in the overlays, be sure to run repoman full from time to time. There's some extra cookies for those also running pcheck ;) +2008 Dec 04 21:44:04 <scarabeus> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde_meeting_state.txt +2008 Dec 04 21:44:12 <scarabeus> and i am going to save the log from this +2008 Dec 04 21:44:13 <krytzz> got it ^^ +2008 Dec 04 21:44:21 <scarabeus> should i put it onto kde space? +2008 Dec 04 21:44:37 <tampakrap> and please try to forward my access to kde-testing, i want to do some kde3 work there +2008 Dec 04 21:45:58 <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sure |