path: root/meeting-logs/20090820.txt

[20:55:28] <scarabeus> 57 secs
[20:55:40] <wired> =]
[20:56:45] <scarabeus> okey
[20:56:50] <scarabeus> i guess we will have to wait
[20:57:05] <scarabeus> since 3 devs; 2 hts and 2 exherbos are not exactly desired combo
[20:57:18] <reavertm> I'm here
[20:57:19] <wired> lol
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[20:58:12] <wired> that helped... a bit :)
[20:58:23] --> yngwin (n=yngwin@gentoo/developer/yngwin) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[20:58:25] --> Ingmar (i=ingmar@exherbo/developer/ingmar) has joined #gentoo-meetings
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[20:58:43] <yngwin> here
[20:59:10] <scarabeus> ok
[20:59:14] <scarabeus> looks better :]
[20:59:19] <scarabeus> so  for the tampakrap
[20:59:21] <scarabeus> http://www.pastebin.cz/b594e8e991906a
[20:59:30] <scarabeus> i count him as excuses due to personal matters
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[20:59:43] <scarabeus> please read the above paste
[20:59:50] <yngwin> pesa has no internet currently
[21:00:35] <yngwin> and ayoy is being grilled by his recruiter
[21:01:03] <scarabeus> ok
[21:01:16] <scarabeus> anyone said that he will be late?
[21:01:32] <scarabeus> otherwise i just wrote up our roll-call, i count everyone whom joined as here
[21:01:34] <yngwin> not that i know
[21:01:42] <yngwin> ok
[21:02:08] <scarabeus> ok so i would say lets start with topic 1
[21:02:12] <yngwin> i'm having a headache, so i'd like to keep this short on my end
[21:02:37] <scarabeus> for that i count as relevant tampakraps opinion, and reavertm's they are the last one working on it
[21:02:51] <scarabeus> so since tampakrap said it in mail i would ask reavertm if he has something to add
[21:02:52] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll talk to tampakrap, but 2 things about the KDE3 overlay
[21:03:07] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: 1. Let's call it kde-junk, kde-sunset, or something like that.
[21:03:27] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: no problem i have all powers about gitosis
[21:03:36] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: 2. We can't drop any ebuilds from the tree before at least the end of the year
[21:03:37] <scarabeus> just sent me after decided name
[21:03:51] <scarabeus> with 2 i agree
[21:03:56] <jmbsvicetto> The reason is that we shouldn't tie an overlay to a specific kde version
[21:03:57] <scarabeus> i would start it after 4.4
[21:04:01] <scarabeus> if nothing evil happen
[21:04:17] <jmbsvicetto> At least not before we get 2 KDE4 minor versions marked stable
[21:04:22] <bonsaikitten> I is here, mostly :)
[21:04:38] <jmbsvicetto> So if we got 4.2 and 4.3 marked stable, then we could consider dropping 3.5 from the tree
[21:04:38] <wired> we'll probably need an announcement and a news item and any other possible means of communication to alert current kde3 users that they have to add the overlay if they want kde3
[21:04:59] <wired> a few months before we remove it
[21:05:04] <scarabeus> that is simple news item
[21:05:13] <scarabeus> ad it can go hand in hand with mask :]
[21:05:23] <scarabeus> i think 3 month mask for this is good idea :]
[21:05:26] <dagger> I think we should make such news after first kde4 goes stable
[21:05:32] <wired> its simple but it can also be devastating if we forget :p
[21:05:44] <scarabeus> and before i forget "DID ANYONE FIND SOME CONTRIBUTORS?"
[21:06:10] <reavertm> I suppose we'll find some gentoo devs still with 3.5
[21:06:13] <yngwin> iirc sping showed some interest before the summer
[21:06:37] <yngwin> he's resuming recruitment process now
[21:07:00] <scarabeus> will you talk to him and find out?
[21:07:07] <scarabeus> *mind
[21:07:08] <yngwin> i can yes
[21:07:28] <Ronis_BR> I don't know if my opinion counts, but I really agree to dagger, you should announce that even befor kde4 is marked as stable. It may be very painful for some users to make the change.
[21:07:49] <scarabeus> he has point ^
[21:08:16] <reavertm> scarabeus: kde3 packages moved to overlay won't be subject of package.mask, will they?
[21:08:17] <dagger> some people dont like kde4 and we wont change it. We just need to make sure they've got enough time to get use to overlay
[21:08:28] <reavertm> (they shouldn't imho)
[21:08:29] <wired> we just need to make sure that people will have the overlay added before we remove the ebuilds
[21:08:32] <scarabeus> reavertm: wont
[21:08:39] <wired> and i agree we reavertm we shouldnt mask it
[21:08:40] <ABCD> I would suggest announcing loudly and often, in many venues so that (hopefully) very few users are taken by suprise
[21:08:41] <reavertm> (just have keywords dropped probably)
[21:08:44] <yngwin> and it needs to be stable before it is marked stable
[21:08:46] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: news item, planet blog entries, forums thread, front page announcement, ... ;)
[21:09:04] <dagger> jmbsvicetto: sounds good
[21:09:40] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: can you do it, please please our PR farry
[21:10:22] <yngwin> i'd wait with too widespread announcements until there is a stable candidate
[21:10:45] <reavertm> indeed
[21:11:00] <scarabeus> well i was not saying NOW i mean when the time will come
[21:11:04] <reavertm> (which movesus towards second topic)
[21:11:04] <dagger> that moves us to point no 2
[21:11:25] <scarabeus> wait a bit, i have one problem with kde3
[21:11:44] <scarabeus> i have seen that debian ship more patches marked as security for kde3 than we even have as bugs
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[21:12:14] <yngwin> we need people now to start maintaining kde3
[21:12:49] <scarabeus> or mask it right after we stable first kde4, dont say remove just mask for sec-issues
[21:13:17] <dagger> kde3 is dead end. I think we need to decide how long are we going to maintain it
[21:13:26] <yngwin> users wont be happy, but i have to agree
[21:14:04] <reavertm> I'd suggest faster gentoo stable releases so that we can keep up with stable version being the one actually yet supported by upstream
[21:14:08] <scarabeus> i think we can write some news item onto the homepage/spread as news
[21:14:20] <scarabeus> and if noone will volunteer to work on it in 7 days...
[21:14:22] <reavertm> for example 4.2 branch is no longer mainataned...
[21:14:26] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
[21:14:30] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: About the news
[21:14:48] <yngwin> i agree, we need to recruit kde3 maintainers immediately
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[21:15:04] <scarabeus> tampakrap: you, here, how, why
[21:15:11] <dagger> go home!
[21:15:14] <tampakrap> just for logs bye
[21:15:14] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: What do you mean about the package.mask? Do you mean masking KDE3 ebuilds now or after they're moved to the overlay?
[21:15:16] <dagger> ^^
[21:15:58] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: he was worried if we would keep the mask in tree after we move it to the overlay, which is NO
[21:16:13] <reavertm> what scarab said
[21:16:19] <yngwin> if we mask it, we might as well move it
[21:16:40] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus / reavertm: I see and I agree with you - no
[21:16:55] <scarabeus> no, users sometimes hate overlays, unmasking is simple
[21:17:00] <scarabeus> or we actualy can let them decide
[21:17:10] <jmbsvicetto> But we shouldn't mask it until some time after we get KDE-4 marked stable
[21:17:14] <scarabeus> i would start with the anouncing call for maintainers on homepage and on all pcs
[21:17:27] <scarabeus> then we will know if someone cares
[21:17:32] <scarabeus> we can recruit the peeps
[21:17:35] <scarabeus> we have the powah
[21:17:37] <scarabeus> :]
[21:17:37] <jmbsvicetto> I'm sorry, but half my brain is being pulled to #gentoo-userrel
[21:17:55] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes that we mentioned too, after at least 1 kde4 stabled
[21:18:48] <yngwin> but if there are security issues that nobody is fixing, we may need to mask earlier
[21:19:04] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: anouncement on homepage and as newsitem if noone reply in timely manner (week) then after
[21:19:04] <scarabeus> kde4 is stabilised we will right away mask it as security threat. then it will live until
[21:19:04] <scarabeus> kde4.4 but masked/or in overlay (to be decided).
[21:19:16] <scarabeus> this is my braindead summary
[21:19:51] <reavertm> agreed
[21:19:55] <dagger> I would say make kde4.a stable, than make kde4.b stable and mask kde3
[21:20:23] <dagger> unless critical bugs will force us to make it earlier
[21:20:30] <scarabeus> dagger: there must be security ones
[21:20:32] <dagger> mask*
[21:20:49] <scarabeus> just browse debian patches
[21:20:51] <Gentoochild> another thing to consider when ditching KDE3 is whether all kde3 apps are available for kde4 (like k3b)
[21:21:06] <dagger> k3b for kde4 works perfectly
[21:21:10] <scarabeus> Gentoochild: security has privilege
[21:21:13] <Gentoochild> (was jsut an exampolke)
[21:21:14] <reavertm> dagger: not really
[21:21:14] <yngwin> mythtv seems to be a problem
[21:21:30] <reavertm> I wonder whether leaving kdelibs:3.5 + some apps would be a problem
[21:21:32] <dagger> reavertm: I'm using it 2-3 times a week for cd dvd5/9 - all fine
[21:21:43] <wired> reavertm thats what i was thinking as well
[21:22:00] <wired> maybe we can leave kdelibs3 and a few apps around for a little longer (like +6 months)
[21:22:10] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I wouldn't mask it, but after we get one KDE4 version marked stable, we should start warning users *publicly* to the status of KDE3 security
[21:22:13] <reavertm> dagger: try writing udf image wth verify - it will lock on 50% on disk eject, but that's off topic
[21:22:29] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: what are those security issue? khtml?
[21:22:37] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: If that upsets upstream, I don't care. Maybe it might lead someone to start fixing issues
[21:22:41] <scarabeus> reavertm: khtml as starters
[21:22:42] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: no it's very simple: if there are security issues they need to be fixed or the affected packages masked
[21:22:47] <scarabeus> there was some more in kdelibs and parts
[21:22:56] <scarabeus> simple tracking debian can work
[21:22:57] <reavertm> maybe it's easier just to dump kde desktop (along with affected apps) and leave kdelibs + some apps that are known to work
[21:22:59] <scarabeus> but we need that maintainer
[21:23:23] <Ronis_BR> I use Kile very often, and the kde4 version of if is far far away to be usable...
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[21:23:53] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: As a Gentoo policy, you're right. But in that case we should probably have masked KDE-3 a few months ago
[21:24:03] <yngwin> yes
[21:24:11] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes but now we will have stable replacement
[21:24:14] <yngwin> so let's try to make things right asap
[21:24:29] <-- ABCD (n=ABCD@gentoo/contributor/abcd) has quit (Nick collision from services.)
[21:24:32] <scarabeus> i would say wait with this decision we can wait for the anouncement and proceed if noone appears
[21:24:33] <ABCD_> could someone PM me the logs from "<scarabeus> this is my braindead summary" through my re-joining?
[21:24:48] <-> ABCD_ is now known as ABCD
[21:24:50] <reavertm> I suppose masking the only stable kde release is not an option so please make sure we have one left :P
[21:25:08] <wired> sure hold on
[21:25:45] <yngwin> reavertm: if no maintainers step up, that is currently our only option
[21:26:38] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: ok
[21:26:48] <reavertm> then we should do as scarabeus said
[21:27:07] <dagger> can we make a poll on forums, to see how many users still use kde3 and how many moved to kde4?
[21:27:33] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: but we should all be aware that even when kde-4 gets marked stable, it's very unlikely that any arch besides x86, amd64, ppc and ppc64 will get it marked stable soon
[21:27:34] <yngwin> yes we can
[21:27:35] <scarabeus> dagger: well usage is not our issue, we need maintainers
[21:27:37] <dagger> of course it will represent only small percentage of users, but should give us some guidelines
[21:27:51] <ayoy> hey there
[21:27:54] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i bet on hppa
[21:28:01] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: sure, i dont think it will be marked stable soon on any arch
[21:28:09] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: so masking kde-3 will upset quite a few users from these arches, but it will also upset people in the other arches
[21:28:35] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Don't forget ia64 or sparc
[21:28:42] <yngwin> so the key is to get some ppl to step up and maintain&fix
[21:28:55] <scarabeus> yes
[21:29:01] <scarabeus> so exactly what i said
[21:29:05] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sparc is still tied to qt-webkit dying with alignment issues
[21:29:20] <scarabeus> so no cookies for sparc
[21:29:32] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i agree it is bad solution, but it is worse to leave it rot around
[21:29:40] <scarabeus> at least 1 maintainer
[21:29:48] <scarabeus> it is not so hard, the ebuilds are mostly cleaned and fixed
[21:29:56] <scarabeus> they just need the patches and testing
[21:29:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: And unfortunately, it seems each day KDE upstream is more concerned with Windows,OS/X than with Linux alternative arches
[21:30:15] <scarabeus> i expected that one
[21:30:34] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'm not arguing against your proposal. I'm just making a few "warning" ;)
[21:30:46] <scarabeus> so you can show the logs when they blame you :P
[21:30:48] <scarabeus> :DDDDD
[21:30:58] <yngwin> they can still unmask or use overlay if they want kde3
[21:31:02] <scarabeus> i would say lets go for next subject
[21:31:22] <reavertm> agreed
[21:32:06] <scarabeus> i summarised it really nicely and jorge as boss can tweak it more to reflect us so we all write our proposals for it
[21:32:15] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: one Q, did you see carlo lately?
[21:32:31] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: he did kde3 commits when he was around, so that is why i ask :]
[21:33:18] <scarabeus> the awkard silence...
[21:33:36] <scarabeus> okey so for the 4.2 stabling i would say vote?
[21:34:04] <yngwin> i vote hell no
[21:34:05] <wired> i say we go for 4.3
[21:34:10] <dagger> hell no
[21:34:13] <wired> so no =]
[21:34:21] <dagger> 4.3 is the way to go
[21:34:25] <reavertm> I vote.. wait for 4.3.1
[21:34:34] -*- yngwin is with reavertm
[21:34:45] <reavertm> there's one 'problem'
[21:34:51] <dagger> yeah, 4.3.1 sounds like the best candidate
[21:34:53] <scarabeus> you know my opinion but for the record 4.3
[21:35:00] <reavertm> kde 4.3 will need phonon-4.4pre
[21:35:08] <scarabeus> the snapshot is stable
[21:35:11] <scarabeus> where is the issue
[21:35:20] <yngwin> what snapshot
[21:35:21] <reavertm> which is good as it works very well, just doen't look official (and it's not, it's our snapshot)
[21:35:26] <scarabeus> phonon
[21:35:39] <scarabeus> reavertm: i would say it is ook
[21:35:46] <scarabeus> it works peachy for everyone around here
[21:35:49] <reavertm> second thing - akonadi-server sqlite USE flag could be masked in profile
[21:35:59] <scarabeus> reavertm: why? it is so borked?
[21:36:04] <scarabeus> i didnt get time to test it yet
[21:36:13] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
[21:36:13] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: carlo? no
[21:36:13] <yngwin> no prblems with phonon
[21:36:42] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll have to double check, but I think he's got under undertakers view
[21:36:42] <reavertm> no idea, works for me, but upstream says sqlite threads support is broken sometimes and may cause data loss when using sqlite backend
[21:36:47] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: meaning is subject to retirement for inactivity
[21:36:54] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: understood
[21:37:00] <reavertm> and I think would just need better testinb whether it's really the case
[21:37:04] <jmbsvicetto> About KDE4, 4.2.4
[21:37:08] <dagger> data loss = mask it
[21:37:15] <jmbsvicetto> If we wait for 4.3, time will fly by us
[21:37:35] <yngwin> 4.2.4 is not stable, boss
[21:37:35] <reavertm> (mysql is enabled by default for now and sqlite is marked as experimental in pkg_postinst anyway)
[21:37:40] <jmbsvicetto> 4.3.0 has some nasty bugs that upstream has admitted already and 4.3.1 shouldn't be out before 1st or 2nd week of September
[21:37:42] <yngwin> neither is 4.3.0
[21:37:48] <dagger> jmbsvicetto: yes and no. 4.2 is no longer maintained, and 4.3.1 will give us some time to fix some bugs in 4.3
[21:37:58] <jmbsvicetto> Add at least 1 month to that for asking for it to be marked stable and we'll be getting very close to the year's end
[21:38:38] <scarabeus> yep, but i think we need 1 month to fix all the issues we have in the tracker anyway
[21:38:39] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I think 4.2.4 is not a perfect release, but it's getting very close and will allow us to have a stable version almost 2 months before 4.3
[21:38:52] <dagger> I believe having 4.3.1 stable by the time 4.3.3 is released sounds good
[21:38:55] <reavertm> of course before anyone thinks of any kde4 stabilization, blocker bugs needs to be fixed first
[21:38:59] <yngwin> 4.2.4 is usable, but certainly not stable
[21:39:13] <jmbsvicetto> 4.2.4 is my vote - but majority rules ;)
[21:39:23] <scarabeus> yeah we rule and you rock :]
[21:39:28] <scarabeus> (you know the joke right?)
[21:39:35] -*- reavertm knows
[21:39:35] <dagger> 4.3.0 is more stable than 4.2.4 ;)
[21:39:45] -*- scarabeus confirm
[21:39:50] <Ronis_BR> If i can vote, I vote on 4.3.1, 4.3.0 crashes sometimes...
[21:40:03] <Ronis_BR> much more than 4.2.4 in fact
[21:40:09] <reavertm> actually stability wise i have never had plasma crash yet on 4.3.9999 (and there were some on 4.2 for me)
[21:40:16] <dagger> i never had a crash on 4.3.0, but saw some bugs about it
[21:40:36] <yngwin> i'm having plasma issues with both 4.2.4 and 4.3.0
[21:41:05] <reavertm> my vote is to go with 4.3.1 (or 4.3.0 with some patches added) and if so - remove 4.2.4 from tree
[21:41:18] <yngwin> well, not on 4.2 anymore as i upgraded both boxes now
[21:41:24] <dagger> the only plasmoid which crashes plasma for me is microblogging = 100% crash rate
[21:41:30] <Ronis_BR> reavertm: I don't mean a plasma crash, but dolphin crashes, konqueror crashes sometimes, and plasma crashes :D but it isn't often and it "recover" itself all the times here
[21:41:56] <reavertm> I doubt anyone still uses 4.2 - adding 4.3 umasked was epic kill for idea of stabilizing 4.2
[21:42:01] <yngwin> on 4.2.4 i had plasma crashes completely freeze up X
[21:42:23] <scarabeus> i am for that removal
[21:42:26] <scarabeus> 4.2
[21:42:27] <dagger> so, do we need to count the votes than?
[21:42:36] <scarabeus> dagger: no need, only boss was for 4.2
[21:42:36] <dagger> or is it decided
[21:42:40] <Ronis_BR> yngwin: i can be video drivers issue, I have never had a X freeze up with kde 4.2.*
[21:42:49] <yngwin> nvidia
[21:42:53] <Ronis_BR> yngwin: ati
[21:42:59] <reavertm> nvidia, worksformetm
[21:43:08] <wired> what reavertm said
[21:43:10] <scarabeus> btwwho is working on stable bugs?
[21:43:20] <scarabeus> i saw only reaver commenting on them and i closed few
[21:43:24] <scarabeus> but the list is still large
[21:43:29] <dagger> intel 4500hd and nvidia here. Nvidia doesn't like new kernel and heci (from staging) driver
[21:43:34] <scarabeus> i need to ask you to pick 1-2 from there and fix them
[21:43:39] <reavertm> some of them are gfx driver issues
[21:43:54] <reavertm> yeah, we need them fixed asap
[21:44:16] <yngwin> ok, can we move on?
[21:44:33] <scarabeus> i want to hear that they read what i wrote ^
[21:44:39] <scarabeus> :D
[21:44:57] <reavertm> summary of no. 2 please :)
[21:45:32] <scarabeus> http://www.pastebin.cz/22046
[21:45:34] <scarabeus> here you are
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[21:46:01] <dagger> looks good
[21:46:28] <scarabeus> yngwin: next topic is yours
[21:47:07] <yngwin> ok, we're ready to add qt4-tng.eclass to portage, no alternative names have been proposed
[21:47:39] <yngwin> i plan to do a review this weekend and send it to -dev ml for rfc
[21:48:06] <scarabeus> qt4-superstar could go?
[21:48:09] <scarabeus> qt4-meh
[21:48:11] <scarabeus> :]
[21:48:12] <wired> lol
[21:48:15] <dagger> qt4-blah ?
[21:48:17] <wired> qt4-v2 ?
[21:48:23] <ayoy> qt5
[21:48:25] <scarabeus> :D
[21:48:26] <yngwin> qt4-thisistheoneyouwant
[21:48:27] <wired> im a bit worried about tng, it sounds good and all
[21:48:31] <wired> ayoy: LOL
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[21:48:48] <wired> but what if we want to replace it again in the distant future
[21:48:59] <Ronis_BR> what is tng?
[21:49:01] <dagger> qt4-tng sounds a lil bit like star trek, but I think we can live with it ;p
[21:49:04] <yngwin> well, you can send bikeshedding proposals once the rfc is on ml
[21:49:04] <scarabeus> well you can live with one damn eclass like us
[21:49:08] <wired> it doesnt sound like it
[21:49:10] <scarabeus> Ronis_BR: the next generation
[21:49:11] <wired> it is startrek
[21:49:12] <wired> :p
[21:49:16] <Ronis_BR> O_o
[21:49:30] <Ronis_BR> wierd :)
[21:49:39] <Gentoochild> to baldly go where no-one has gone before
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[21:49:48] -*- wired wonders if after tng we'll have the-empire-strikes-back or something
[21:49:51] <wired> :P
[21:49:55] <scarabeus> to baldly compile what noone else was able to do
[21:50:03] <dagger> wired: lol
[21:50:08] <yngwin> wired: good name for kde3 overlay maybe?
[21:50:13] <wired> :D
[21:50:16] <ayoy> lol
[21:50:21] <scarabeus> yngwin: i am open for proposals
[21:50:27] <scarabeus> and i have strong feelings for this one
[21:50:31] <scarabeus> :}
[21:50:32] <Ronis_BR> eheheh
[21:50:38] <ayoy> but isn't qt4-tng or whatever meant to replace the old qt4.eclass?
[21:50:47] <yngwin> eventually yes
[21:51:00] <wired> qties4.eclass
[21:51:01] <wired> :D
[21:51:07] <dagger> we can't just dump the old one and put the new one in place
[21:51:11] <yngwin> no
[21:51:12] <scarabeus> you cant
[21:51:13] <ayoy> dagger: sure
[21:51:17] <scarabeus> you would break the ebulds
[21:51:22] <scarabeus> *current
[21:51:22] <dagger> yep
[21:51:24] <wired> yes we need a migration
[21:51:30] <reavertm> you guys should really "learn" how to make drastic eclass changes in place like we do :D (with no new eclasses involved)
[21:51:33] <Ronis_BR> qt4-tng is a gentoo version with patches or not?
[21:51:36] <yngwin> unless you want to check all ebuilds that use qt4.eclass wrt new functionality
[21:51:39] <scarabeus> reavertm: see this is reason why i slapped you everytime for backcompat
[21:51:50] <reavertm> scarabeus: with kde-misc? :P
[21:51:58] <wired> its TNG folks
[21:52:05] <wired> does picard look like kirk to you?
[21:52:07] <wired> :D
[21:52:10] <scarabeus> reavertm: yep :]
[21:52:20] <scarabeus> kirk had better chicks
[21:52:22] <scarabeus> they had skirts
[21:52:23] <dagger> ok, back to the point please
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[21:52:29] <scarabeus> ok ok
[21:52:33] <scarabeus> i think tng is done
[21:52:49] <yngwin> as far as i'm concerned yes
[21:53:02] <reavertm> or just qt4-0.1.eclass
[21:53:10] <reavertm> (then 0.2 for next revision :P)
[21:53:13] <Ronis_BR> "Backcompat is to still commit in the present the errors commited in the past"
[21:53:15] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: you should push your versioned eclasses idea
[21:53:28] <scarabeus> ok anyway
[21:53:36] <scarabeus> the last thing is bit brainstorming
[21:53:42] <scarabeus> what shoudl we focus on in future
[21:53:45] <reavertm> too bad you can't do it in place
[21:54:32] <ABCD> I remember seeing an agenda item in some email about the unversioned sets
[21:54:35] <jmbsvicetto> sorry guys - mind at userrel
[21:55:11] <scarabeus> ABCD: i was waiting on jorge to come back so i left it as totaly last
[21:55:19] <ABCD> scarabeus: ok
[21:55:21] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: That idea wasn't mine, I just pulled it out of the dust ark ;)
[21:55:38] <scarabeus> :]
[21:55:46] <scarabeus> ok any ideas/proposals what we should focus
[21:55:51] <scarabeus> we will have new recruits
[21:55:51] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: The versioned eclasses
[21:55:58] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i understood
[21:56:07] <scarabeus> and for them we need something creative to do
[21:56:12] <scarabeus> we cant just leave them fix bugs
[21:56:14] <scarabeus> same for us
[21:56:22] <scarabeus> if i would only fix bugs i would went insane
[21:57:10] <yngwin> in qt team we are actively looking at adding new qt4-based packages all the time
[21:57:13] <scarabeus> i had idea about branding, but then i cant draw
[21:57:22] <ayoy> :)
[21:57:33] <scarabeus> so someone else would have to mentor the idea
[21:57:34] <yngwin> documentation could use more work too
[21:57:49] <ayoy> I had an idea of qt-based portage gui
[21:57:56] <ayoy> but then I wouldn't use it
[21:58:00] <scarabeus> :D
[21:58:06] <dagger> ayoy: noone would I think :p
[21:58:09] <ayoy> :)
[21:58:10] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There's always the "fix upstream build system" idea ;)
[21:58:21] <yngwin> there was a kde(3?) one iirc
[21:58:21] <wired> scarabeus: branding is actually a lovely idea, remember that gentoo kstart icon quantumsummers had?
[21:58:24] <wired> we need artists
[21:58:25] <reavertm> I have some task, not sure whether suitable for newcomers
[21:58:40] <scarabeus> i have tasks not suitable for myself :D
[21:58:44] <scarabeus> so go on
[21:58:45] <scarabeus> :]
[21:58:47] <reavertm> I need eclass for odbc driver management
[21:59:01] <reavertm> supporting iODBC and unixODBC interfaces
[21:59:35] <scarabeus> well that is totaly not beginner work
[21:59:37] <ayoy> ok, next
[21:59:40] <dagger> I'm sorry guys, but I will have to leave you now. I need to pick up my wife.
[21:59:48] <reavertm> registering/unregistring drivers, in similar way like in debian, (but separately - one for iODBC and one for unixODBC)
[21:59:56] <wired> c ya dagger
[22:00:21] <reavertm> (it should be easy, mostrly it's just invocation of unixodbc tool with creating some files in /etc)
[22:00:33] <scarabeus> well if you find interested recruit go for it
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[22:00:50] <scarabeus> reavertm: question. how is your reviewing going by?
[22:01:08] <reavertm> I'm lazy to send fixed quizzes
[22:01:25] <scarabeus> gosh
[22:01:31] <scarabeus> please do so
[22:01:34] <scarabeus> sooon
[22:01:35] <scarabeus> :]
[22:01:35] <reavertm> nevermind
[22:01:47] <scarabeus> ok last topic is SETS
[22:01:53] <scarabeus> I hate the current state
[22:01:56] <scarabeus> i preffer metas more
[22:02:12] <scarabeus> so we need someone to write proper specs for what we need from sets
[22:02:12] <-- |Francis| (n=kvirc@AGrenoble-152-1-28-162.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr) has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:02:21] <scarabeus> and talk about it with zac
[22:02:27] <scarabeus> and even better help him implementing
[22:02:34] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ^ ?
[22:02:38] <reavertm> oh yes, have anyone read bug 272488 ?
[22:02:40] <scarabeus> am i right?
[22:02:53] <reavertm> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=272488
[22:03:04] <scarabeus> i did i liked
[22:03:08] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: That sounds like an eselect and not eclass (odbc)
[22:03:09] <scarabeus> you volunteer?
[22:03:29] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll take this one
[22:03:47] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I've been meaning to write about it for a *long* time, but I keep postponning it
[22:03:48] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: use teh bug as base, i like the idea
[22:03:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Can I ask you to poke me about it until I do? ;)
[22:04:54] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: hmm, not really, it would be eclass for packages that provide odbc driver
[22:04:55] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I know the bug. My plan is to get back to the basics about sets
[22:05:07] <reavertm> it's not about switching between iodbc vs unixodbc
[22:05:07] <scarabeus> if you promise you wont mark me as your counter person for next lead vote ;]
[22:05:09] <scarabeus> :D
[22:05:11] <scarabeus> ok can do
[22:05:13] <reavertm> (it's determined at compilation time)
[22:05:18] <Ronis_BR> I wonder when gentoo guys will look at https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=268891
[22:05:18] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: ok, then I misunderstood. sorry
[22:05:46] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Are you affraid instead I'll point to you when it gets time for the next election? ;)
[22:06:04] <scarabeus> :D
[22:06:20] <scarabeus> okey
[22:06:28] <scarabeus> anything else for the sets, we will leave them to you
[22:06:32] <scarabeus> and poke you about it :]
[22:06:42] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: I think 2.2 style sets are dead end
[22:07:02] <reavertm> confusing syntax
[22:07:39] <yngwin> what i want is kde-latest-release sets
[22:07:58] <scarabeus> that is quite hard to make but i see the point :]
[22:08:00] <yngwin> so that 4.2.4 would be automatically updated to 4.3.0
[22:08:19] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: that's basically unversioned sets ;)
[22:08:21] <scarabeus> also i think we should stop encouraging set usage in docs
[22:08:24] <yngwin> yes
[22:08:33] <wired> the unversioned sets work like that :)
[22:08:39] <scarabeus> they dont
[22:08:44] <scarabeus> too much package fuzz movement
[22:08:52] <scarabeus>  /
[22:09:07] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: they do - the problem is our "non-stopping" upstream ;)
[22:09:42] <yngwin> ok, anything else for the meeting?
[22:10:01] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: They have what we call here "bicho de carpinteiro". They can sit still for a minute and thus keep moving packages left and right, adding new ones, killing old ones and finding new and better ways to make distros life harder ;)
[22:10:11] <wired> do you guys think we should move the plasmoids from kde-testing to the tree?
[22:10:13] <jmbsvicetto> The can't sit still*
[22:10:24] <scarabeus> wired: we can
[22:10:30] <jmbsvicetto> wired: How good do you think they are?
[22:10:32] <scarabeus> just test them for leaks
[22:10:36] <scarabeus> and crashes
[22:10:38] <scarabeus> everytime
[22:10:40] <scarabeus> plasma is core
[22:10:44] <scarabeus> if it crashes it is PITA
[22:10:48] <wired> jmbsvicetto: some of them are pretty good, others i have no idea
[22:10:59] <scarabeus> wired: then add the one you like
[22:11:00] <wired> i mostly test that they build and occasionally that they load
[22:11:09] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I don't see a problem with adding good ones
[22:11:21] <scarabeus> but you really have to test them
[22:11:24] <jmbsvicetto> and what scarabeus said ;)
[22:11:31] <wired> ok so on a per-plasmoid basis
[22:11:36] <wired> kk
[22:11:55] <reavertm> well, kde developers doesn't test their code sometimes, so we should
[22:11:56] <Ronis_BR> you have already discussed about kdeprefix i think, haven't you?
[22:12:15] <scarabeus> Ronis_BR: that was decided long ago, not matter of this meeting
[22:12:15] <reavertm> Ronis_BR: yes, it's dead (for now)
[22:12:24] <Ronis_BR> ok
[22:12:30] <Ronis_BR> too bad, but ok :)
[22:12:40] <wired> Ronis_BR: we accept patches
[22:12:40] <wired> :D
[22:12:54] <ABCD> Ronis_BR: that was decided at the June meeting :)
[22:13:12] <scarabeus> ok i would like to dismiss the meeting for this moth
[22:13:14] <scarabeus> any objections?
[22:13:25] <Ronis_BR> ABCD: sorry, it is the first time that I hear about gentoo meetings :)
[22:13:39] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Before we go, when should we have the next meeting?
[22:13:41] <scarabeus> Ronis_BR: kde.gentoo.org its on the page, logs+summary
[22:13:53] <reavertm> I suppose we don't need more meeting recently - just people eager to work on issues :P
[22:13:54] <scarabeus> 17.9.
[22:13:57] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ^
[22:14:02] <scarabeus> 3rd thursday in the month
[22:14:09] <scarabeus> 19:00 utc
[22:14:15] <scarabeus> if noone found it really evil or bad
[22:14:17] <jmbsvicetto> right
[22:14:33] <jmbsvicetto> Oh!!!
[22:14:38] <yngwin> scarabeus: i will be on holiday that week
[22:14:39] <reavertm> scarabeus: actually we could just meet in two weeks to evaluate work done
[22:14:40] <jmbsvicetto> One last item I forgot to add to the meeting
[22:14:50] <jmbsvicetto> Anyone willing to help solar about the 10.0 release?
[22:15:00] <ABCD> I'll have to check my class schedule for Fall semester again, but I think that will work (it does fall in the middle of the day here, though)
[22:15:10] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: what kind of help
[22:15:15] <jmbsvicetto> I want to help with KDE (and if I can compiz), but it would be great if more people could help
[22:15:18] -*- scarabeus busy with x11stabling/overlays rework
[22:15:54] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: solar and a few others are working on catalyst specs to build a live-dvd with x86/amd64 to celebrate Gentoo's 10th birthday
[22:16:08] <reavertm> catalyst....
[22:16:22] <yngwin> well thats release team work
[22:16:23] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: can they add ~ packages?
[22:16:35] <scarabeus> yngwin: there is no such team iirc
[22:16:36] <scarabeus> :D
[22:16:37] <reavertm> they could add kde 4.3 :)
[22:17:11] -*- yngwin sends thunderbolts scarabeus' way
[22:17:13] <scarabeus> because if kde3 will be there, we can simply grab sabayon, it will be more promotial
[22:17:23] <reavertm> and polished :P
[22:18:15] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There's an release team
[22:18:26] <jmbsvicetto> But this is a "special edition"
[22:18:39] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: The point is to have KDE4, not 3.5.10
[22:18:40] <reavertm> solar or agaffney?
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[22:20:27] <wired> ...?
[22:20:36] <reavertm> release tem
[22:21:30] <yngwin> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/
[22:22:24] <scarabeus> ok guys anyway i have to run
[22:22:31] <scarabeus> here is the summary: http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/0908summary.txt
[22:22:33] <scarabeus> do logs yourself
[22:22:36] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ^^
[22:22:39] <scarabeus> download it NOW
[22:22:44] <scarabeus> :D
[22:23:08] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
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[22:23:34] * scarabeus has changed topic for #gentoo-meetings to: "Rem tene, verba sequentur || Keep to the subject and the words will follow"
[22:23:50] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: can't find the file in packer
[22:23:54] <jmbsvicetto> pecker*
[22:24:29] <wired> jmbsvicetto: it downloads, its in public_html probably :D
[22:24:48] <wired> jmbsvicetto: i have logs, do you need them?
[22:24:51] -*- yngwin out
[22:25:14] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: please ignore me
[22:25:32] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I can't connect through http at the moment, but thanks
[22:25:55] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I got it from Tomas. I was just showing signs of my "split brains" :\
[22:26:03] <wired> heheheh
[22:26:09] <wired> no problem
[22:26:20] <wired> did you log the meeting or you want me to give you my log?
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[22:27:50] <wired> jmbsvicetto: ^^
[22:29:25] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I didn't log
[22:29:36] <jmbsvicetto> wired: Thanks for reminding me I forgot to add a rule to my irssi about this
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[22:32:27] <wired> jmbsvicetto: yw
[22:32:42] <wired> jmbsvicetto: so where do you want log? pecker?
[22:35:05] <wired> jmbsvicetto: ~wired/kde/200908_meeting.log
[22:36:24] <jmbsvicetto> wired: thanks
[22:40:10] <wired> :)
[22:41:49] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I have another request for you - starting Saturday, poke me for the logs/summary ;)
[23:10:08] <Gentoochild> \part
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[23:17:09] <scarabeus> btw you can leave now, next on the list is gnome meeting, and i dont think you want to slack around that ;D
[23:27:43] <reavertm> gnome meeting? nice